(Topic ID: 191491)

Avoid PayPal like the plague


By pinmaniac

1 year ago



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  • 112 posts
  • 62 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Homepin
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    There are 112 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
    #1 1 year ago

    Follow the advice given elsewhere here on Pinside and avoid PayPal. After being with them for 17 years and literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in transactions they decided to "limit" my account today because of "increased activity". Despite the advice here I accepted PayPal friends and family for three recent pinball sales.

    Fortunately I never leave money sitting there so they currently don't have any of my money but I sell on eBay a lot. I have several thousand dollars in sales that are coming in this weekend and they are going to hold my money until the merchant department finishes their investigation.

    Not only that but they actually called someone I sold a game to on pinside and started asking questions about me.

    Not looking for sympathy, I told you so, or advice; rather another warning for those that don't believe PayPal can treat you however they want and you have to take it.

    #2 1 year ago
    Quoted from pinmaniac:

    Not only that but they actually called someone I sold a game to on pinside and started asking questions about me.

    That doesn't sound right. I've never heard them communicating with someone without an open dispute.

    They really shouldn't be contacting your customers without your consent.

    #3 1 year ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    That doesn't sound right. I've never heard them communicating with someone without an open dispute.
    They really shouldn't be contacting your customers without your consent.

    I agree and told them. They don't care.

    #4 1 year ago

    Keep trying to escalate the case beyond the first line on phone reps. You'll never get anywhere with them.

    #5 1 year ago

    Also, how did you find out about this? There are phishing emails that try this sort of thing in order to get you to give up your account and personal info.

    If you log into your account directly, do you see a note about the account limitation?

    #6 1 year ago

    Doesn't sound like someone opened a case. They are just limiting it because you had some larger transfers?

    37
    #7 1 year ago

    I don't think this is weird. If they see three consecutive large transactions as friends and family, it probably triggers a "Where's our cut?" Red Flag.

    #8 1 year ago

    Thanks for you advice and interesting dilemma. I will continue to use Paypal

    #9 1 year ago
    Quoted from Toasterdog:

    I don't think this is weird. If they see three consecutive large transactions as friends and family, it probably triggers a "Where's our cut?" Red Flag.

    That could be.

    #10 1 year ago

    For the last 18 months, they've been tightening down on the 'Friend & Family' usage.

    I have many artist friends, and they've all gotten messages or word-of-mouth to start having people pay them as a service/goods, because Paypal is halting and freezing accounts on payments sent that way.

    Yeah, they want their cut.

    #11 1 year ago

    This is another reason I don't use them. Solution - wire transfer

    #12 1 year ago

    I was under the impression that Friends and family pay a percentage also, but instead the sender pays instead of the receiver. When I have sent payment that way I end up pay a few percent extra, or am I only paying the credit card fees for paypal?

    #13 1 year ago

    Friends and family from a linked checking or funds already loaded into PayPal is no fee for anyone. If you pay with a credit card the send pays the fee.

    #14 1 year ago
    Quoted from mg81:

    I was under the impression that Friends and family pay a percentage also, but instead the sender pays instead of the receiver. When I have sent payment that way I end up pay a few percent extra, or am I only paying the credit card fees for paypal?

    no, there is no fee.

    #15 1 year ago

    Sorry to hear of your plight.

    PayPus recently froze my account yet again, I think for about the 8th time? Their reason - I logged in to my account from China - but WAIT! I have advised them several times (in emails) that I work in China, so they have NO EXCUSE to use that reason. My credit card companies can all deal with that when I inform them, what's PayPus's excuse?

    I'm lucky, as I'm Australian, we have a very robust system in place for dealing with rogue companies like PayPus. I simply made an online complaint about PayPus to the Australian banking Ombudsman and, after waiting the "legally allowed" 30 days PayPus decided to unlock my account.

    Rogue companies like PayPus really hate the Ombudsman for a few reasons. They are no longer Judge and Jury and if they don't comply with what is "reasonable" they can be fined, and very heavily for a minor infringement.

    When I made my complaint, PayPus were sent an invoice by the Ombudsman - if PayPus wants to delay or dispute my complaint, the bill to them goes up and there is a published scale of fees.

    PayPus know they would never win in cases like mine so they ALWAYS cave, EVERY time.

    I simply never waste my time attempting to call them because you only get drones on the phone who do not have the authority to do a single thing to help you.

    I'm surprised that people are still fooled by the "friends and family" bull. It makes no difference to anything - certainly not to your protection so please don't think that.

    PayPus really should be shut down IMO!

    #16 1 year ago
    Quoted from xbloodgreenx:

    no, there is no fee.

    There is a fee, the sender pays it.

    #17 1 year ago
    Quoted from WackyBrakke:

    There is a fee, the sender pays it.

    There is no fee... if u don't use a credit card

    IMG_8606 (resized).PNG

    18
    #18 1 year ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    They really shouldn't be contacting your customers without your consent.

    They are not contacting his customers, they are contacting his friends and family.

    #19 1 year ago

    paypal, oh boy, what a love/hate relationship. Above average user, very few disputes, great credit score, overall, an ideal customer. I usually take about $100k payments a month through PayPal (standard, not friends and family), and never had an issue until 5 months ago. In one week I did really well, and received $90k in CC payments. 3 weeks later, out of the blue I get a phone call on a Sunday night at 845pm. "Sir, we are limiting your account and need more info on these 3 large transactions. We need tracking and invoice for each sale". Not a problem, upload the info, and they say they will unlock the account the next morning. Next morning, the three separate customers who paid the total of $90k start calling. They are saying PayPal has called them asking if they received the purchase, if it was acceptable, totally in their possession, and was there any reason they would file a dispute. They all confirmed they were happy, and I was relieved and figured the limitation on our account would be lifted within a few hours.

    Another phone call from PayPal later that night, and it's their merchant review dept, and they want to put a rolling 10% hold on all my payments for 60 days. Go back and forth about why this has happened and they said "paypal does not want to accept the risk that come with these large payments". I appealed and sent them bank statements showing cash on hand and they pulled my credit which is perfect. I thought it was a mixup and they would come to their senses.

    Nope, next day after reviewing, same dept calls and say I have 3 choices, refund the payments and have the buyer pay with a different method (customers all already have their purchase in hand, and not one had any complaints). Two, accept a 10% hold on all future payments for 60 days, and then the 10% will be released on a rolling basis. Lastly, put a $25k deposit in my PayPal account indefinitely. Chose the 10% as It seemed less of a headache, and moved CC processing to a small local bank.

    In the end, the month slowed down and was slightly above average, but nothing drastic. I still have a 10% hold on my account, with literally zero reasons why it is needed. After talking with a friend who is employed there, he said most of PayPal "top 1%" accounts went under a similiar review, and most now have the same holds on their account.

    I have always heard the horror stories and thought there was always more to the story. I have been a PayPal user for 13 years and very rarely have had an issue or an outcome I thought was unfair. I had no problem paying the insane fees, As I was satisfied and chalked it up to the cost of doing business. Even though it is a lot less convenient, we moved the majority of our payments to a different processor. I still can't believe they "punished" us for doing more business, and now understand why so many people have had huge issues with them. Unfortunately they are a necessary evil for most business' and until their is legitimate competition, we are stuck with some of their more draconian practices.

    #20 1 year ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Also, how did you find out about this? There are phishing emails that try this sort of thing in order to get you to give up your account and personal info.
    If you log into your account directly, do you see a note about the account limitation?

    Yes I logged in directly and saw it. The useless rep on the phone confirmed it. I already submitted the requested info. Now it is a waiting game.

    #21 1 year ago

    Sadly, people still use PayPus because it is convenient.

    Also, the:

    "it will never happen to me - you must have done something wrong"

    syndrome is ever prevalent.

    Until it actually DOES happen to them of course.......and with PayPus it is never "IF" - it is always "WHEN"!

    As the OP and many others warn, please use any other form of payment people.

    #22 1 year ago

    I prefer to buy/sell my machines in person with cash.

    #23 1 year ago
    Quoted from WackyBrakke:

    I prefer to buy/sell my machines in person with cash.

    I'm sure everyone does.

    20
    #24 1 year ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    That doesn't sound right. I've never heard them communicating with someone without an open dispute.
    They really shouldn't be contacting your customers without your consent.

    I was the person that they called. After feeling them out that it was not a scam (not asking me for any information but telling me what they were looking at) I assured them that the transaction was legitimate. I further explained that it was a payment to a friend for a pinball machine who was a part of my group of pinball enthusiasts.
    They were asking if I had received delivery of it and I told them what do they care it was between friends and I wasn't concerned about sending the money because it was between friends. I finally did say that I was expecting it at the end of the month where another friend was bringing it to me. They seemed satisfied with that answer. I then called Pinmaniac to give him a heads up.

    #25 1 year ago
    Quoted from Homepin:

    Sorry to hear of your plight.
    PayPus recently froze my account yet again, I think for about the 8th time? Their reason - I logged in to my account from China - but WAIT! I have advised them several times (in emails) that I work in China, so they have NO EXCUSE to use that reason. My credit card companies can all deal with that when I inform them, what's PayPus's excuse?
    I'm lucky, as I'm Australian, we have a very robust system in place for dealing with rogue companies like PayPus. I simply made an online complaint about PayPus to the Australian banking Ombudsman and, after waiting the "legally allowed" 30 days PayPus decided to unlock my account.
    Rogue companies like PayPus really hate the Ombudsman for a few reasons. They are no longer Judge and Jury and if they don't comply with what is "reasonable" they can be fined, and very heavily for a minor infringement.
    When I made my complaint, PayPus were sent an invoice by the Ombudsman - if PayPus wants to delay or dispute my complaint, the bill to them goes up and there is a published scale of fees.
    PayPus know they would never win in cases like mine so they ALWAYS cave, EVERY time.
    I simply never waste my time attempting to call them because you only get drones on the phone who do not have the authority to do a single thing to help you.
    I'm surprised that people are still fooled by the "friends and family" bull. It makes no difference to anything - certainly not to your protection so please don't think that.
    PayPus really should be shut down IMO!

    That is great. I wish we had a banking Ombudsman to put them in check.

    #26 1 year ago
    Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

    That is great. I wish we had a banking Ombudsman to put them in check.

    You need one that's for sure. The sad thing is, in Australia, so many are still fooled by the tricks PayPus gets up to and they don't take advantage of this FREE, Government provided service - beats me

    #27 1 year ago

    Thank you all for sharing this info with us.
    I use paypal only occasionally when necessary. They don't seem like a pal to me.
    Maybe with the changes they are implementing, they will change their name to PayPrick or PayThug.

    -1
    #28 1 year ago
    Quoted from pinmaniac:

    I accepted PayPal friends and family for three recent pinball sales.

    This is what got you my downvote... you were "avoiding" paypal's cut on purpose and surprised they froze your account?

    Or did I misunderstand what you were trying to convey?

    #29 1 year ago
    Quoted from Zitt:

    This is what got you my downvote... you were "avoiding" paypal's cut on purpose and surprised they froze your account?

    Quoted from pinmaniac:

    Not only that but they actually called someone I sold a game to on pinside and started asking questions about me.
    Not looking for sympathy, I told you so, or advice; rather another warning for those that don't believe PayPal can treat you however they want and you have to take it.

    Maybe you're old high school chums with Paypal, but I'm pretty goddamned surprised they called someone to check in on shit like that yes.

    #30 1 year ago

    PayPal is criminal

    Bought some stuff and had problems with the items
    Supposed to be covered under paypall
    Now after 1 year and escalating case in that time
    PayPal says the warranty the offered is excluded for the items bought.
    So you know , one item arrived destroyed ( bad packing shipper)
    Another item as not described
    Paypall won't do nothing

    Be warned indeed !!

    #31 1 year ago

    Don't get me wrong... Ebay, Paypal are the devil... but necessary devils for small businesses in this age.
    I don't trust either one... and understand the OPs desire to vent / do a PSA.
    But telling people to avoid Paypal is well... kinda silly.

    I'm sure at some point; I'll have the same feelings for Paypal. Ebay already screwed me ... so I don't use them anymore. I guess at some point I'll feel as wronged by Paypal as the Op. But for now; I see why Paypal did what they did and agree with it to some degree.

    Calling his customers; that sh1t ain't right. period.

    #32 1 year ago

    i think using PayPal friends and family for selling thousands of dollars worth of pinball machine is taking the piss though.

    Neil.

    #33 1 year ago

    Never have any problems with Ebay or Paypal, love 'em both. Always easy fast transactions, nothing complicated or scary. Immediate payments - things get shipped to me faster, without waiting for payments to clear.

    #34 1 year ago

    I've never had any issues with PP or Ebay over the years (buying and selling) but admittedly none of those transactions have been for massive dollar amounts. I'm adding the nickname Paypus to my often used term Fleabay now though, still giggling over Paypus

    #35 1 year ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    Never have any problems with Ebay or Paypal, love 'em both. Always easy fast transactions, nothing complicated or scary. Immediate payments - things get shipped to me faster, without waiting for payments to clear.

    You've been lucky.

    #36 1 year ago
    Quoted from Zitt:

    Calling his customers; that sh1t ain't right. period.

    Quoted from imharrow:

    They are not contacting his customers, they are contacting his friends and family.

    #37 1 year ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    Never have any problems with Ebay or Paypal, love 'em both. Always easy fast transactions, nothing complicated or scary. Immediate payments - things get shipped to me faster, without waiting for payments to clear.

    Sadly most keep using PayPus for the exact reason as yours but one day they will burn you just like they have tens of thousands of others .....

    I wouldn't be so smug if I were you and while your at it how about a bit of empathy for those that HAVE had issues....

    #38 1 year ago

    I am not a fan of PayPal either, but there isnt much of an alternative. We accept credit cards and payment goes right into a bank account, but most people prefer to use PayPal. eBay is basically exclusively PayPal. For transactions at shows, we stopped using PayPal and moved to square. PayPal holds funds you collect above $500 for 30 days, which I find to be complete BS.

    Show me an alternative and I'll drop PayPal fast.

    #39 1 year ago

    Venmo is an alternative...use it a lot and have accepted payment for a pinball machine before. I believe there is a daily limit of $3k though.

    #40 1 year ago

    I personally love PayPal.

    It's not perfect, but it allows people to accept CC payments with no terminal or processing company contracts. I can send $$ securely to people and buy products online without typing a CC # whenever in need to buy something.

    I have bought and sold lots of pins without a hitch. I love 6 months same as cash and take advantage of it often. I have no problem accepting or using PayPal.

    I would suggest reviewing their policies though. I would never ship something over $250 w/o signature confirmation. Don't accept PayPal for a large ticket item and let someone pick it up unless you know them well. Shipping is fine, but it must be with a reputable shipping company that uses traceable/traceable shipping documents.

    PayPal doesn't hold my money. If they hold yours, more then likely you haven't had that many transactions with them and they are making sure everything is legit.

    #41 1 year ago

    sounds to me like PP thinks they are to big fail!

    #42 1 year ago
    Quoted from Homepin:

    Sadly most keep using PayPus for the exact reason as yours but one day they will burn you just like they have tens of thousands of others .....
    I wouldn't be so smug if I were you and while your at it how about a bit of empathy for those that HAVE had issues....

    Every business has a set of unsatisfied customer. They are just more vocal than the ones that are satisfied. I eat at several great restaurants in my home town. If I assumed I would have a horror story based on some of the bad reviews, I wouldn't be visiting all these fine dining experiences where I had excellent service and never a problem
    Where did I ever say anything about someome elses experience? Of course I feel empathy for anyone who has a problem. I've had my share of problems unrelated to PayPal. No problem with PayPal might be the only damn thing I am NOT having a problem with at the moment. I only commented on my own posititve experience

    #43 1 year ago

    Before Paypal, there was Western Union money orders, there was Bid Pay, and there was the old "I'll take you check and ship the product when your check clears the bank" stuff.

    I had an Ebay purchase go bad. PP made sure I got my money back.

    I had an independent purchase go bad and put on a dispute; The seller contacted me and begged begged begged my to release the dispute "the parts are on the way". PP advised me to not lift the dispute. I did not listen and got hosed by the seller.

    I have completed several small friends and family transactions. Never had any trouble.

    Years ago, when I was selling on Ebay, I did not want to pay PP its cut so I took checks only. Then I reasoned that I might get more buyers/bidders and a higher auction sales price if I did take PP.

    Ebay takes a cut. PP takes a cut. Cuts bite. But so does having an ad on Craigslist for weeks on end. And waiting for the check to clear.

    Wire transfers, as mentioned earlier, for larger transactions are the safest way to sell a pin. But the seller can only play "hardass" with a pin that is in demand. If it is some old POS pin that nobody wants, you start kissing ass to make it sell. And to anyone who thinks PP and Ebay get greedy, go to your bank and do a wire transfer; Bank wire transfers are not cheap. The bank will GET its steep cut. I paid wire transfer fees, but it was for a hard-to-find pin. For some average pin, you--the seller can pay that fee.

    I remember how it was to do long distance transactions before PP. I like it this way.

    For you sellers with your own website, if you prefer I pay you directly with my credit card, then send me a signal by having a larger CC window than your PP window. Or tell me your prefer CC payments;I'll try to help you out, but if I can choose your PP window, all I have to do is get logged into PP and it is a done deal. With your CC window, I have to type in all my CC info. and yours is just one more site where my data can get hacked.

    #44 1 year ago
    Quoted from whthrs166:

    sounds to me like PP thinks they are to big fail!

    Any company can fail. They are big, and they are doing well. In 2016 fourth quarter PayPal had growth of 5.4 million active customer account​s and 1.8 billion payment transactions, - up 23%. No signs of pending failure.

    #45 1 year ago

    This happened to me 3 weeks before Xmas. During the height of selling season. Locked up my account . They audited my account and asked me to provide them shipment dates and tracking numbers to them electronically. No courtesy call. I got on the phone with 1st level customer service, got nowhere. Asked to esculate it and to talk to their manager. Got him on the phone, provided him shipment tracking numbers for transactions. On sales that were picked up, provided then names and numbers. After an hour on the phone , he took the hold off on my account and everything was back to normal. Big pain in my ass, but got it resolved in less than 2 hours. They put a hold on my account because $50,000 plus was going into my account for pinball machines and they wanted to see that games where going out. They should have just called me instead of freezing up my account. That's my only gripe. I still use them.

    #46 1 year ago
    Quoted from TKDalumni:

    Venmo is an alternative...use it a lot and have accepted payment for a pinball machine before. I believe there is a daily limit of $3k though.

    Venmo is fantastic as far as fees - none on either end as long as you're sending with a linked debit card or checking account. Super-popular at the office for collecting football/basketball pool entry fees.

    Of course... check out who owns Venmo.

    10
    #47 1 year ago

    Using friends and family to cheat PP out of their profit, then complain when they put a halt to it?
    Just pay the 3% if you are going to use their service, or use something else.
    Everybody bitched when e bay tacked on 10% fees to shipping costs as well as the cost of the item. What were they supposed to do, let everybody sell a $300 item for $18 and charge $282 for shipping to avoid fees?

    #48 1 year ago

    Does anywhere else have e-transfer.
    It's the best thing ever!

    No hassle with funds.

    I have sold 2 pins and purchased 3 this way.
    Your bank instantly transfers funds to and from your bank account. Up to $3000 over $3000 you have to call your bank and verify the transfer with them.

    But you can do it on the spot with your bank's app on your phone.
    Like using your debit card.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interac_e-Transfer

    #49 1 year ago

    Waaa waaa waaa. I tried to cheat PayPal out of their fees and they caught me.

    In the old days they would have broke your legs too. Consider yourself lucky.

    #50 1 year ago
    Quoted from Zitt:

    This is what got you my downvote... you were "avoiding" paypal's cut on purpose and surprised they froze your account?
    Or did I misunderstand what you were trying to convey?

    Had nothing to do with avoiding fees. They said they were concerned with fraud despite no complaints from anyone and a stellar record over the years.

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