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(Topic ID: 273214)

Avoid K's Arcade under all circumstances


By Flavour

3 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 241 posts
  • 108 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 61 days ago by punkin
  • Topic is favorited by 10 Pinsiders

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    There are 241 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 5.
    -29
    #1 3 months ago

    TLDR: Keith Apgar is very very customer-unfriendly. He simply assumes stuff without bothering looking into it and when asked for completely justified refund, he told me I'm an "ass-hole" (WTF spells it like that?) and blocked my email.

    Timeline of events:

    • On June 10th I ordered a Rottendog WPC89 driver board.
    • On June 11th the order was shipped via UPS.
    • On June 16th I received an email from UPS asking for duties and fees to be paid.
    • I've paid these literally minutes after receiving the email.
    • On June 26th I got concerned that the package hasn't moved (according to UPS tracking).
    • I called UPS on the 26th to confirm the status of my package.
    • They told me it never left the US as it already two business days overdue. I should ask the shipped to open a claim.
    • Directly after that phone conservation, I send an email to sales@ksarcade.net.

    Here it is in full:

    Hi,

    The package with the tracking number 1Z976A0RDK21999144 never made it to Canada. I just got off the phone with UPS and since it's 2 business days past the expected delivery date, they asked me to contact you, so you can file a claim with them.

    I've ordered plenty of other stuff in the meantime from the US and it all arrived without a problem. Even stuff send with USPS. Just my luck that UPS is acting stupid right now.

    Cheers,
    Mike

    The tracking number is real, so feel free to confirm the status of the package yourself.

    Here is Keiths reply, also in full:

    1Z976A0RDK21999144
    Tracking shows it just cleared customs, that is usually where the bottleneck is."

    Here is my reply to that, also in full:

    No, I called ups. It cleared customs 12 days ago. According to UPS it is still hasn’t even left the original sort facility.

    Give them a call yourself. It is lost. It will never arrive.

    I've received no further communication until I send another email on July 14th:

    Keith,

    Please follow up with UPS or provide a refund. This has been over a month now and there is zero chance of it arriving. In the meantime I’ve place other orders from the US and they all arrived after around a week each. It’s not COVID. It’s not “normal”. It’s lost.

    Please take care of your customers.

    Regards,
    Mike

    His reply:

    Michael,
    You can stop saying it's lost now...
    The tracking shows the delivery was attempted but the addressee refused to pay the duty fee.

    Jun 16, 2020

    https://www.ups.com/track?loc=en_US&tracknum=1Z976A0RDK21999144&requester=WT/trackdetails

    Why it has not been returned to us we do not know.
    We do know that UPS is a very reliable shipping company.
    We also do not have a lot of free time to chase packages around the world, there are many lost packages by USPS, many thousands of dollars worth of packages lost.
    We will contact UPS and have the package returned to us, only then will you receive a refund.

    Now am I taking crazy pills here? Where in the tracking information does it show that I refused to pay the fees and reject the parcel? It hadn't even left the United States, yet, so how could I have done that?

    Anyway, here is my full reply:

    I paid them online three weeks ago. The tracking hasn’t changed since 17th of June.

    It is lost. Stop being so damn condescending. You behave as if I’m some idiot who doesn’t know what he’s doing. I’m 50 years old and own over 30 pinballs. I’ve ordered stuff literally hundreds of times.

    The package is NOT in Canada and nobody made any delivery attempts. The tracking doesn’t say at all what you claim. Stop making shit up.

    Call UPS. Get confirmation that I paid customs and duty and you will see that they don’t know where it is.

    Start believing me and don’t treat me like a retard.

    There was no reply. So I send another email the next day, this time attaching three screenshots from the UPS website, my payment confimation from UPS and a payment receipt from UPS. I've attached all three to this post:

    Here is proof. The tracking information I can see (detailed). No mention of a delivery attempt or a refusal to pay customs/duty.

    Further down you can see a screenshot of my payment to UPS ($117.77 CAD).

    I've done nothing wrong, but while I was searching for my PayPal receipt, I saw that you refunded me 85% - shipping on the 19th of June without even notifying me.

    I've had enough of this bullshit. I want the remainder of my money back. I want the full $299 + $43 UPS. This item was either never shipped or it got stuck, and instead of reaching out, you interpret the available data in the worst possible way and then issue a partial refund.

    What gives you the idea that it was out for delivery and I refused to pay the charges? Can you attach a screenshot of the tracking info you see on your end?

    What would be my motivation here? I still have a broken Addams Family.

    If you would open a claim with UPS you would see that the item never left the US and that they will refund you in full. If you actually received the item back, then UPS did something seriously wrong.

    I got a reply through their ordering system email after (I guess they added it as a note to the order?)

    Michael, The UPS tracking clearly states that there was a duty fee that was not paid. This order was returned to us by UPS June 19 2020 and at that time we refunded you less 15%, We do not refund shipping when the item is refused.

    I replied to them this:

    I want you to take a screenshot of that information and send it to me.

    It is simply not true. I paid for the duty. I showed you the emails from the 16th. It was paid. why do you ignore everything I say?

    Why do you refuse to call UPS and find out the facts? I called them twice now. I had to open a claim on your behalf.

    If the driver returned that package to you, then that is because he never even took it to the warehouse. He forgot it in his truck or something and simply gave it back to you with bogus information. It never left the states.

    Here is Keiths reply to me only an hour ago:

    Michael,
    Sorry this did not work out, We had had this happen before where an international customer refuses to pay the VAT and the item is returned to us without any explanation or warning. We just figured it was another order that had ended the same way. It was your first order with us so we had no history with you.
    The only thing we noticed in the UPS tracking is that it was not scanned when it was returned to us. But that is not unusual in SC, USPS does not scan when they pick up or drop off which is why their tracking system sucks. We have 18 lost packages somewhere on this planet with USPS International.
    Again, sorry but we had no reason to not assume the worst.
    There are other Rottendog dealers that ship to CA, although these times are very different in shipping internationally.
    A lot of uncertainty these days. Covid is raging here in the east coast southern states.

    Here is my reply to that sorry-not-sorry mess:

    Keith,

    At least now you admit that your reaction was knee jerk and not in line with reality.

    I would like the remaining 15% and the shipping back. You will get the shipping back from UPS once their investigation concludes. They promised to call me on Monday about the $117.77 they owe me for my pre-payment of duties.

    Yes, shit happens every day. What truly bothers me is how you reacted to it. You immediately assumed the worst, was super condescending and basically refused to even talk to me.

    Now that you finally looked into it for real, you had to admit that I was right all along.

    Yes, there are others I can buy boards from. Your website came up first when searching for “rottendog wpc89”. That’s all.

    Regards,
    Mike

    This was his final reply:

    Fuck off, hows that for reality.
    Blocked your email because you are an ass-hole.

    I wish I was making this up. I wish Keith Apgar wasn't a totalitarian jerk that always assumes the worst about his own customers. I'm really relatively laid back but sentences like "but we had no reason to not assume the worst" really make me angry. Maybe Keith was a US-cop before starting his Pinball business? Man, fuck that guy and his shitty website. I hope he goes bankrupt.

    I opened a PayPal dispute about the remainder and got it back. Now I just have to fight UPS for the duties and fees.

    Anybody know a good, reliable website where a Canadian can order Rottendog boards that doesn't treat their own customers like dogshit?

    screencapture-mail-google-com-mail-u-0-1594948771164 (resized).pngscreencapture-www-ups-com-WebTracking-1594948709632 (resized).pngscreencapture-www-ups-com-ippa-home-1594948814404 (resized).png
    #2 3 months ago

    Here we go again!

    10
    #3 3 months ago

    jeez, I have a headache after reading that

    #4 3 months ago
    Quoted from woody76:

    jeez, I have a headache after reading that

    Impressed you summited it!

    35
    #5 3 months ago

    In 20 years when I’m retired and have an abundance of time, I shall give this post a careful read and consideration. Please await my analysis.

    #6 3 months ago

    You can see how this will end from a million miles away. In fact, I feel like I just read this thread last week. Maybe a different vendor...

    26
    #7 3 months ago

    More impatient people getting pissed at sellers who have nothing to do at all with the worldwide shipping delays because of the pandemic. Multiply the frustration of each buyer by a factor of 100+, and that's what the sellers are experiencing. Commitments from all the shipping companies are being missed, customs are holding packages for an inordinate amount of time (I suspect a non-admitted period of quarantine), and no matter what the cause the shipping companies are using Covid as a carte blanche excuse.

    Admittedly, frustration does not excuse poor interactions with customers, but given the current climate I can certainly understand people reaching their boiling points. Quite honestly, I've read a few of these "cancel" type threads, and the only thing I've been motivated to do is actually buy things from the sellers to help support them and their businesses.

    16
    #8 3 months ago

    Viral in 5 4 3 2...........
    That headline is rather unfair. There's way too much he said/they said here.

    Your acting like the seller tried to screw you when the whole of the fault here lies with the shippers/customs.
    You paid the VAT+duties, yet the package was sent back to the US. That's on UPS and the customs house, not K's Arcade.
    UPS telling you the seller needs to file a claim is crummy buck passing - they should have taken your claim right then and there if you had proof of paying the taxes/duties.

    Lesson to us all I guess: Buying anything international right now is a bad idea.

    #9 3 months ago

    Order from a Canadian company next time

    27
    #10 3 months ago
    Quoted from Flavour:

    Maybe Keith was a US-cop before starting his Pinball business?

    #11 3 months ago

    You filed a dispute and got all your money back and then came here to complain?

    #12 3 months ago

    He wanted to make sure that we dont move to Canada, and order from K's.

    12
    #13 3 months ago

    Never had any problems with them, and I'll use them again.

    24
    #14 3 months ago

    You lost me at retard

    43
    #15 3 months ago

    Fuck off, hows that for reality.
    Blocked your email because you are an ass-hole.

    I'm going to use this for the bottom signature for my emails from now on........ its perfect.

    #16 3 months ago
    Quoted from wolffcub:

    Fuck off, hows that for reality.
    Blocked your email because you are an ass-hole.
    I'm going to use this for the bottom signature for my emails from now on........ its perfect.

    Hilarious!! I needed a good laugh.

    26
    #17 3 months ago

    Gee, some of you are being a bit harsh on the OP. Yes, delivery systems worldwide are choked as a result of COVID and people are frustrated. It's obvious that Keith never bothered to read all the details the OP provided him when making the initial enquiry, instead he made certain assumptions and reacted poorly as a result. Sure the OP was determined, but Keith accepting some responsibility and a reasonable apology would have been the best outcome.

    #18 3 months ago

    Can't say i'd be apologising to someone who was that rude and abusive.

    I got this one from a customer the other day. The Entitled Generation. Didn't like being told that i had to pack, weigh and measure the cartons for large orders in order to give postage quotes and i don't do that without payment. Told me it was illegal to not give him a free postage quote and that he was going to ring consumer affairs. This was his response when i told him to go ahead.
    Looks like i saved myself an hours work as he say's he was never going to buy it in the first place.

    punkin (resized).jpg

    26
    #19 3 months ago

    I like K's Arcade even better now.

    13
    #20 3 months ago
    Quoted from punkin:

    Can't say i'd be apologising to someone who was that rude and abusive.
    I got this one from a customer the other day. The Entitled Generation. Didn't like being told that i had to pack, weigh and measure the cartons for large orders in order to give postage quotes and i don't do that without payment. Told me it was illegal to not give him a free postage quote and that he was going to ring consumer affairs. This was his response when i told him to go ahead.
    Looks like i saved myself an hours work as he say's he was never going to buy it in the first place.
    [quoted image]

    Whilst that is just plain unacceptable and should never be tollerated. The OP wasn't rude initially and made a legitimate enquiry about his order only for Keith to make an assumption that skewed the communications between the two of them from that moment on. In the end, the behaviour of both deteriorated, but Keith certainty isn't a victim here.

    #21 3 months ago

    I had a $225 order from Ministry of Pinball disappear in customs, it sucked and I ended up eating the loss. More recently I had a Marco order disappear in shipping, then show up 3 weeks later in half the box saying it was damaged, 2 of the 6 things I ordered were left in it. It's hard to blame the seller when it clearly wasn't their fault, but they should work with the buyer. Marco was great about resending the order and filing the complaint with the post office.

    #22 3 months ago

    he's right ya know, you were a ass-hole!

    15
    #23 3 months ago
    Quoted from Flavour:

    Maybe Keith was a US-cop before starting his Pinball business

    LOL, that says it all right there.. another whiny post to drain.

    #24 3 months ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    I like K's Arcade even better now.

    He’s got a bit of redneck in him for sure )

    16
    #25 3 months ago
    Quoted from Flavour:

    I’m 50 years old and own over 30 pinballs.

    I'm 36 and own 6 pinballs.

    Do I reach your elite status when I hit 50 years?
    Or do I need to own 24 more pins?

    11
    #26 3 months ago
    Quoted from SunnRAT:

    Do I reach your elite status when I hit 50 years?

    Hopefully by the time you hit 50, Goonies and TMNT will no longer seem cool.

    #27 3 months ago

    I have ordered a lot of stuff from K's Arcade and never had an issue.

    #28 3 months ago
    Quoted from nwpinball:

    I had a $225 order from Ministry of Pinball disappear in customs, it sucked and I ended up eating the loss. More recently I had a Marco order disappear in shipping, then show up 3 weeks later in half the box saying it was damaged, 2 of the 6 things I ordered were left in it. It's hard to blame the seller when it clearly wasn't their fault, but they should work with the buyer. Marco was great about resending the order and filing the complaint with the post office.

    Marco is amazing when it comes to stuff like this.

    #29 3 months ago
    Quoted from Tommy-dog:

    I have ordered a lot of stuff from K's Arcade and never had an issue.

    same

    #30 3 months ago

    I dunno, perspective is everything.
    Is any of this worse than watching a loved one die from cancer?
    Is this even going to matter in a week?
    This is my perspective on a daily basis. It keeps me grounded and mellowed out.
    For the record, I've ordered several things through K's arcade and have had nothing but excellent results. The proof shows he could've handled this better no doubt about it but I also realize everyone is human and we're all entitled to have bad days. Just not consecutively

    #31 3 months ago
    Quoted from Flavour:

    he told me I'm an "ass-hole" (WTF spells it like that?)

    Somebody who’s seen “Meet the Fockers”.

    #32 3 months ago

    K’s Arcade has been great over the years.

    10
    #33 3 months ago

    If I had to stop doing business with a vendor because of carriers issues, I would have chicken in my backyard, grow tomatoes, make my own toilet paper and cut wood to build my pinballs

    #34 3 months ago
    Quoted from steigerpijp:

    He’s got a bit of redneck in him for sure

    Yes, I always love these clashes between people in this hobby that don't understand they can't always get their way, and good old redneck parts vendors that have been doing this longer than than most of them have even been playing.

    #35 3 months ago
    Quoted from Flavour:

    Start believing me and don’t treat me like a retard.

    Uh-oh!
    You said the R-word Pinside doesn’t like that.

    This is basically like saying the N-word or the K-word so you’re going to be canceled now.

    71E6684A-7C19-45D6-B6DD-458288C4E5B1.jpeg
    #36 3 months ago
    Quoted from dothedoo:

    Somebody who’s seen “Meet the Fockers”.

    #37 3 months ago
    #38 3 months ago
    Quoted from wolffcub:

    Fuck off, hows that for reality.
    Blocked your email because you are an ass-hole.
    I'm going to use this for the bottom signature for my emails from now on........ its perfect.

    I want to order something from you now.
    You sound like a no bullshit kind of guy and I can appreciate that.

    #39 3 months ago

    You could always order from MAD amusements.

    #40 3 months ago
    Quoted from Flavour:

    Man, fuck that guy and his shitty website. I hope he goes bankrupt.

    57F56EC7-4319-4710-964B-2993BEE7E639 (resized).jpeg

    #41 3 months ago

    Is K's Arcade on pinside?

    If so how many pages before they chime in and get 100 thumbs up, the issue becomes one big misunderstanding, they kiss and make up, and then we go onto the next one?

    #42 3 months ago

    3 to 4 at this rate.

    #43 3 months ago
    Quoted from punkin:

    3 to 4 at this rate.

    I'll go $5 on page 4 or that it never happens.

    19
    #44 3 months ago

    I recently had an experience like the op here, except I was the shipper. Indeed it got nasty, and the original net result was a $900 loss for me
    The issue was in FedEx shipping, and hours of incorrect information from employees.
    I finally wrote to the owner, Mr. Fields, of FedEx, and received a call from his secretary in 15 minutes. and she resolved in 2 days, what took months of failure.
    I still have one open from France for 3 months

    The point being it happens and is happening more often now.
    No reason for rudeness on any side.

    Does anyone care? Not really in today's rhetoric,
    until it happens to you.

    Empathy is a good thing.

    #45 3 months ago
    Quoted from Leeb18509:

    You could always order from MAD amusements.

    Especially now that PPS owns them, as if they weren’t the greatest already.

    #46 3 months ago

    I think a lot of you are doing exactly what Keith did: you don't read and understand the whole thing. You don't understand what happened. You skim over some parts of read the headline and then have an immediate knee-jerk reaction of "buyer is impatient, his fault, durr durr".

    That's no what happened at all. What happened is that Keith assumed that I refused to pay duties and thus assumed that the item had been returned to him. He did a partial refund of 85% minus the shipping. I didn't notice the partial refund because it landed in my spam folder.

    He refused to look into it despite several emails with screenshots. Apparently he had "no reason not to assume the worst". When asked for the remaining 15% + shipping (a combined $87) he told me to fuck off and blocked my email.

    How is that fair? How is that just? I had to involve a third party (PayPal) and even phone UPS twice to get my money back. How would you feel if this happened to you?

    #47 3 months ago

    This is why we stay!

    #48 3 months ago
    Quoted from dothedoo:

    Somebody who’s seen “Meet the Fockers”.

    This is why we stay!

    #49 3 months ago
    Quoted from Flavour:

    you don't read and understand the whole thing.

    Sorry, I have the attention span of a third grader that had three bowls of fruit loops for breakfast.

    12
    #50 3 months ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    I like K's Arcade even better now.

    Me, too. A good seller with impressive patience. Other guy comes off like an arrogant drama queen.

    Hey clown, don't speak ill of our cops.

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