Crazi's post is spot on, but one does have to wonder, if pinball prices weren't 2-3 times what they were 'in the old days' if there'd be less complaining. People expect collector quality because they are PAYING collector quality prices. I realize back then everything cost less in general, but those devices were made to make money back and get beat up. If you are going to charge a premium and know that your market has changed, expect people to actually want premium. If you aren't willing to back your product, you are just going to drive yourself out of a job eventually. Do you want to make a legacy, or are you just in it for a quick buck?

This is another thing that chaps my hide about companies today, but...that's a different thread.

The thing is these pinball manufacturers are the ones putting themselves in these situations.

They clearly said 'playfield issues have been resolved'. There is only 1 way to know that. To actually play it, and play it and play it. Same with any other recurring issue. It isn't going to show itself after a few minor flips of the ball.

It doesn't take a microscope to find many of these issues after a few 100 plays. I mean this across the board. If you can't take the time to actually test your product before mass producing it, that's on you. I'm not speaking of just JJP. Most all of the manufacturers have been guilty of this. You aren't going to find every issue, but the stuff people are complaining about aren't unknowns.

The difference is in how they proceed from there.

Haggis did the sledgehammer test, time for someone to one up them with the chainsaw test. Then and only then will we know the pf's and art/clear are solid.

That's the way of the world these days.

Dutch Elm Disease is a serious threat!

This has nothing to do with pinball. Throw out a industry and someone has taken a side. Brand loyalty is a real thing, even though these days there's almost zero reason to have any. Every company can turn to shit at the drop of the hat once they shift from 'growing to please customers because they love it' to, 'shit we gotta do this for the rest of our lives and need investors and be able to fund our lifestyle and kids college funds'. Taking sides is literally what this country does best.

That being said, we don't want to go back to the days of Stern only, those games are for the most part horrible.

If a company can't make a quality product and stand behind it when they are selling for 9-11k....they probably aren't 'better' for the hobby. This goes for any company. There's a certain point where it's not just squeaky wheels but an actual issue that needs addressed.

Remember what brought on the video game crash? It wasn't because there were 'too many games'. It was too many 'crap quality' games.

Maybe the trick is just to keep them in the box for about 5 years until the clear cures.

When life hands you dog poop, make fertilizer.

I wanted to do pinball like caskets, but nobody got that kinda time.

I've always considered Stern more like the Family Truckster.

It could be, but...one question. Was your issue about playfield clear cracks/peels? Or something unrelated?

While I agree Dialed In's name/theme probably hurt it more than it helped it. BK3 was a known entity that many people loved. It didn't 'not' sell because it wasn't a AAA license. It didn't sell because it didn't look that fun.

Yeah, can definitely see that being the case. I'm just pointing out that BK had a history and well known in the pinball community. The theme alone wouldn't have stopped people from buying it. I'm not sure I think non-pin people are the make or break for each game.

You should run that idea by DR.

Retro Atomic Edsel Adventure.

It's actually surprising there hasn't been a F&F pin.

I agree, but the point they are making is that when you can sellout a game based on license alone sight unseen...where is the incentive to take the chance to do something original where people 'wait and see'. Same thing the movie industry does. Blame that on the hobbyists.

For a game that 'no one likes' it has held its value well. I've played it a few times and want one.

What are you talking about. I've had mine since March and I'm still hearing things I've never heard before. General callouts are no different than any other game..repetitive. R&M is much better than almost all in that aspect.

I can't speak to JJP as I've never owned one, but I can say LTG is helpful beyond JJP. He's always chiming in with advice for CGC as well (and probably other games as well).