(Topic ID: 297150)

Avoid JJP - They do not stand behind their products

By Deez

2 years ago


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#490 2 years ago
Quoted from screaminr:

According to jjp they do .
Although these days who knows what's covered[quoted image]

Sorry but that is the old warranty. Now its just circuit boards and monitor. Nothing else and non transferable. That's how I read it at least. This is in the current GnR manual right off of JJP website today:

JJP Warranty 3 2021 (resized).pngJJP Warranty 3 2021 (resized).png
#526 2 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

They Do?
Never heard that before.

There have been very few warped playfields and reports of Stern replacing them with fully populated playfields. An apples to oranges comparison because of the relative few compared to the many. Also, the art coming off was solved by Stern over a year ago by not putting art under the posts and eventually a new thinner harder clear. My LZ and April 2021 JP Premium have beautiful clearcoat with no issues at all after hundreds of plays. More importantly, I wasn't the slightest bit worried they would have problems when I bought them.

#703 2 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

All this bickering amongst ourselves and yet JJP can’t build games fast enough to keep up with orders.
No wonder they ignore Pinside.

Apparently the flow of games out of the factory has been slow and very sporadic because of parts issues. There's no way all of these threads plus the many games on the secondary market haven't cut into new sales and caused cancelled sales.

#801 2 years ago

Just buy a $10 remote power switch and velcro the remote under the cabinet.

20
#845 2 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

1.The power button used to be in an easily accessible location.
2. The power button is no longer in an easily accessible location.
3. Stern could run some wire from the power supply and install a power switch at the traditional easily accessible location but choose not to.
This decision comes across as another cost cutting move along with the cheaper lock down bar latches, removal of the traditional head lock, 3/4 sheet metal head, cheaper cabinet brackets, plastic exterior cabinet protectors versus metal, and yes even cheaper tilt bobs...

Stern modernized their machines and eliminated the boat anchor transformer from the base cabinet in favor of a much more reliable system using a single voltage PC power supply in the head and DC-to-DC converters at the node boards. So 35 pounds of transformer and wiring are no longer in the base cabinet, the power enters the head directly and there is never any a/c power in the base cabinet unless you add a dollar bill changer. So it is more of a reliability and modernization than a cost cutting. Putting the power switch back where it used to be would be an added expense rather than one that was cut at this point. This also freed up space to mount the shaker over on the right side of the base cabinet instead of being completely cramped in where it used to be.

If it really bothers people the problem can be solved in 30 seconds for $13. Just plug the machine into a remote power controller and mount the remote under the cabinet with velcro where the button can be reached.
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B072F9DGRL/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_AXCC9J3XFRXVA9PK9VP5

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

cheaper lock down bar latches

I suppose they might be cheaper, but I like them better. In fact I will say that I like them a LOT better now that I have used them a while. They are more secure and a much simpler design. They don't need to be adjusted and don't allow the lock bar to slide around when someone gets a little rough with nudging. Why is this important? The old mechs allow the lock bar to slide forward and cut into the powder coating on the side rails. This was never a problem before games were all powder coated, but now a more secure system is needed. If it happens to cost less then win-win. I've seen that powder chipping on JJP, AP and Chicago games.

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

removal of the traditional head lock, 3/4 sheet metal head

So they changed the lock and that is a problem? There is still a lock there and it still cost the same amount I would assume. I also really like the metal heads and the speaker panel that aims to the player for better sound, less reflection off the playfield glass and better view of the screen.

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

plastic exterior cabinet protectors versus metal, and yes even cheaper tilt bobs

Once again I like the plastic better. If you can get past the fact that they are less expensive you will again notice that all of the legs and especially the LEs have powder coating now. The plastic doesn't dig in and chip the powder coating and start rust (in the Florida humidity). It also lets me feel a lot better about really tightening the leg bolts down, so the game plays good and firm without wobbling. As for the tilt bob's, I will take your word on them since you must be Stern's accountant, but I have never noticed that they work any less effectively than any other tilt bob.

You forgot to mention the removal of the coffin latch in favor of the mini-leg bolts to secure the head? Again something that cost less, but is a big upgrade to me. I hated those old latches and always lost or had the hex wrench stolen. Now one tool puts the legs on and secures the head too.

You also forgot to mention the that cabinets are now built like a brick shit house. Sterns from three years ago had cheap particle board bottoms and now are 3/4 birch plywood. No one is complaining about cracking any more either and that didn't come from cost cutting since the days of those flimsy cabinets. They also eliminated the playfield pegs on Pros a long time ago and went back to the more expensive rails. That was a cost cutting that failed and was corrected.

#849 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

That’s where I’m right with ya. Metal aprons are so nice. Glad my STH LE and GOT Prem have them.

Yeah the plastic aprons suck. Fortunately they are only in Pros and I never buy Pros.

#852 2 years ago
Quoted from screaminr:

The one thing I do like , is how they light up the instruction cards .

True, one other side effect is they are bouncy and often the ball bounces off them and back up between the flippers into play! I still prefer the metal though even though they cut into the playfield and I have to install yet another set of protectors LOL.

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1192-apron-envy/04424-apron-edgers-stern-metal-aprons-with-riveted-eye-bolts

#857 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

My AC/DC vault premium was plastic.

I think there were some that were plastic for lighting effects, but I have not seen plastic except in Pros for a while. My JP premium has cutouts for the lighting effects on the top of the metal apron.

11
#863 2 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

So every cost cutting move Stern has done is an upgrade to you, got it lol. Wow, you are their ideal customer, "I like plastic better"...The cabinets should be plastic too, maybe sheet metal.
How do you justify Stern's recent switch to using cheaper and lighter tilt bobs? The tilt bob in my TMNT Premium feels like it weighs half as much as the a traditional tilt bob on Ghostbusters Premium. Why be so cheap and save money there? Just another cost cutting move.

LOL you are really reaching. Did you even read my post? I explained my opinions. The lighter tilt bob is so that it won't stay swinging so long. This is so you don't have to do the ear plug mod. Look it up sometime.

Back in the day I remember buying lots of cabinet protectors well I don't remember buying any of them made out of metal? Probably because they would cut into both the cabinet and the leg and defeat the purpose. Plastic is better than metal for this purpose I don't care if it cost less.

#866 2 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I'm sorry for the rant, the tilt bob change is really an upgrade! Now my game is 1 ounce lighter when I move it.

Its actually heavier and higher BOM because of the cost increase to go to 3/4" birch plywood on the bottom of the cabinet. Check out the bottom side of your TMNT. No doubt that cost a lot more than the savings on the tilt bob. And yes, tilt bobs have had a problem over the years and became very obvious to tournament players and directors, hence the ear plug mod.

#872 2 years ago
Quoted from Puffdanny:

You obviously haven't played many tournaments!!!!

I'm glad he pointed that out because I hadn't noticed. Cost savings or not, it's a design improvement.

I was the tech for a big tournament in south Florida a few years back and Eric Stone (yes, the number 2 player in the world right now) was complaining about the tilt on Whitewater. He told me to open the coin door and guaranteed me the plumb bob would be moving even though no one had played it for a few minutes. I thought he was crazy, but sure enough I opened the door and the plumb bob was moving to the point where you would tilt with the slightest extra movement. That was long before we had heard of the ear plug trick that they used on many of the games at PAPA. I noticed that the bob in the WH2O was not the original WPC bob. That night we swapped the whole tilt assembly with another WPC game in the free play area and it fixed the problem probably because it was lighter.

These days most of the games in my game room have the ear plug installed to help this issue, and I am glad to know that Stern has listened to their designers like Keith and Ray and made the plumb bobs lighter. Those guys certainly know about issues with plumb bob design...

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/433855/why-do-lighter-pendulums-come-to-rest-faster-than-heavier-ones

#895 2 years ago
Quoted from GeekedOnPinball:

Yes, there is a way. I found it in my GnR settings somewhere. I like the restart better, it just starts to ball 1 again vs Sterns just end the game and eject the ball.

You are talking "restart", Stern has that also. Restart just puts you back to ball one in a 1-player game. Reset will put you back to attract mode even from the middle of a 4-player game. So if some kid starts a 4-player game and walks away there is no reason to cycle power. You do this by holding the left flipper and start button until the game goes to attract mode.

#904 2 years ago
Quoted from Hayfarmer:

Just push and hold start button after the first ball is done will restart you too.

Yes, but doesn't work except on a one player game

#907 2 years ago
Quoted from RJW:

Not sure if I'm misunderstanding here. Holding down the start button on my DI restarts the game regardless of how many players, provided its enabled in the menu and ball 1 is complete.

Cool, that works. I wasn't sure how JJP works. Stern has a second option to hold the left flipper button and start button down and that brings you back to attract mode with no game started. That's good for operators or at shows when someone starts a four-player game and walks away.

#913 2 years ago
Quoted from Bendit:

Switching power supplies are not more reliable than 30 lbs transformers. They are lighter, yes. Switching power supplies go out often in my server room. On the other hand, I play bass with original tube amplifiers that have heavy transformers from the 1950s. Switching power supplies are used to save weight and used for their superior (switching) efficiency, not because they are more reliable.

Yep transformers are reliable as hell at producing AC voltages, so removing them saves only weight and cost when you look at it from the standpoint of just that one piece of the puzzle. Unfortunately pinball machines are a DC device that needs multiple DC voltages. Looked at as a whole with all of the failure-prone parts that are saved for eliminating multiple DC power supplies fed by the multiple transformer outputs (connectors, wires, bridge rectifiers, capacitors, etc) it would certainly be more reliable too. The power supply Stern uses is actually a pretty nice one despite the stupidly noisy fan. I've not heard of anyone having to replace one, on the other hand I literally had a discrete power supply in WoZ fill my game room with smoke one day a few years back. Removing transformers from pinball machines is as much an inevitable modernization as going from DMD to LCD. It simply makes sense for cost, reliability and ease of manufacture. That's why Stern, American, Chicago Gaming and Spooky have all chosen to go that route.

#1000 2 years ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

Sterns are cheap Chinese units that can be swapped out for forty bucks.

Actually they are pretty decent Chinese power supplies with loud fans that can be changed out for around $100+.

https://www.amazon.com/MEAN-WELL-RSP-500-48-Encapsulated-Converter/dp/B00YJVSTT0

And yes, no one ever said transformers are not reliable. If they did, they were wrong.

#1009 2 years ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

If you wanna shop Amazon, sure. They are cheap as chips on Alibaba or strait out of China.

When something breaks I generally shop somewhere that ships in less than a month.

Edit: still not $40 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000410077476.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.1276691bUlJQhU&algo_pvid=b083391e-24f8-44fd-9c76-93cac9b6a999&algo_exp_id=b083391e-24f8-44fd-9c76-93cac9b6a999-0

#1126 2 years ago

Still seems crazy the deposit is nonrefundable. At this point you would at least think they would relax on that, but I guess that would be to admit there is a problem?

#1148 2 years ago
Quoted from screaminr:

The Playfield looks ok , and the lighting is alright but the assets and animations and callouts are average at best .

Very early software with static placeholders for animations to come at a later revision...

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