(Topic ID: 297150)

Avoid JJP - They do not stand behind their products

By Deez

2 years ago


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There are 1,518 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 31.
#251 2 years ago

You are right on both accounts - I just dont like it.

Quoted from iceman44:

Will do. Gets drowned out with the same things said in every thread, over and over
But like I said. We will see if it’s fact or fiction. The wallet doesn’t lie

#252 2 years ago
Quoted from djsolzs:

I agree here - not what I am saying. I was referencing Iceman post about "Let’s see how fast those CEs sell out this time?". That to me is encouraging more bad behavior.

You just can’t affect how people want to spend their $$$. Others like me have totally different experiences with JJP

Sorry if you don’t like it

I didn’t like JJP from Hobbit through GNR. Now I’m back with a Wonka too

#253 2 years ago

Yep, toy story is gonna sell out, and sell out quick. Like it or not, right or wrong.

#254 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Don’t make things personal. You know the rules.
And btw, if I bought one I would be one of 500 “stupid people”
You worry about how to spend your own $$$

I didnt mean you specifically...

I meant the general mindset that I must have this machine even before I see it, play it, etc etc..... hell Ill even prepay for the privilege.

The "take my money" crowd are the problem.

#255 2 years ago
Quoted from Elvishasleft:

I didnt mean you specifically...
I meant the general mindset that I must have this machine even before I see it, play it, etc etc..... hell Ill even prepay for the privilege.
The "take my money" crowd are the problem.

I get it. Look at Spooky just now! It’s pins, cars, houses etc. Times are crazy

#256 2 years ago

Right - was just hoping we could make an impact on the customer service side. It needs to be improved for everyone spending the $$$$

Quoted from iceman44:

You just can’t affect how people want to spend there $$$. Others like me have totally different experiences with JJP
Sorry if you don’t like it

#258 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I get it. Look at Spooky just now! It’s pins, cars, houses etc. Times are crazy

Well the fed does have a money printer... thats going to turn out well down the road.

#259 2 years ago

Keep in mind Deez is an operator and some companies do not warranty anything for games on route. If that was a factor in turning down @fatdirk ‘s request (fatdirk is auto corrected as fat dork), JJP should have stated it so that probably wasn’t applicable. The bad clear he didn’t call in should have been addressed with solution in warranty. JJP’s current warranty is a joke, literally. It needs to be greatly expanded in favor of the customer.

Entire game should have a one year bumper-to-bumper warranty and two years on electronics. Further, playfield defects need to be defined and categorized and options for remediation clearly spelled out. That would be a shining example of standing behind your product, and it is the right thing to do, JJP. So now, I will give you a cargument

I leased a new Hyundai and after 30 months I purchased it. It is a Sante Fe and has the turbo- engine, leather seats, 360 degree sight thru windows and it comes with a 10 year bumper-to-bumper or 100k miles warranty. It was perfect for me as I used to drive 10k miles a year. The warranty spells out transmission and electronic issues in great detail and states very few specific exclusions. The warranty was my deciding factor in leasing the vehicle.

When I purchased the car after 30 months, the warranty transferred without hassle. It was spelled out in the lease, whereby the transfer of warranty is encouraged. At month 48 from start of lease, my engine blew and it was really bad. I took it to Hyundai service where they approved my vehicle for a new engine and included all labor and supplemental parts. They also rented me another Hyundai to use until fixed. I didn’t ask them to do anything before it was all set up with no hassle to me. Given that a JJP CE almost costs as much as Hyundai’s low end car note EVEN IT comes with a ten year bumper-to-bumper/100k, transferable warranty.

I think JJP needs to rethink and expand their warranty to become an industry leader and to show they stand behind their products and that they really care about customers. If they defined use as # months and or # lifetime plays. They could encourage operators to participate in the warranty. Pinball is a coin-operated device that is supposed to be played on location.

#260 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Keep in mind fattdirk is an operator and some companies do not warranty anything for games on route. If that was a factor in turning down @fatdirk ‘s request (fatdirk is auto corrected as fat dork), JJP should have stated it so that probably wasn’t applicable. The bad clear he didn’t call in should have been addressed with solution in warranty. JJP’s current warranty is a joke, literally. It needs to be greatly expanded in favor of the customer.
Entire game should have a one year bumper-to-bumper warranty and two years on electronics. Further, playfield defects need to be defined and categorized and options for remediation clearly spelled out. That would be a shining example of standing behind your product, and it is the right thing to do, JJP. So now, I will give you a cargument
I leased a new Hyundai and after 30 months I purchased it. It is a Sante Fe and has the turbo- engine, leather seats, 360 degree sight thru windows and it comes with a 10 year bumper-to-bumper or 100k miles warranty. It was perfect for me as I used to drive 10k miles a year. The warranty spells out transmission and electronic issues in great detail and states very few specific exclusions. The warranty was my deciding factor in leasing the vehicle.
When I purchased the car after 30 months, the warranty transferred without hassle. It was spelled out in the lease, whereby the transfer of warranty is encouraged. At month 48 from start of lease, my engine blew and it was really bad. I took it to Hyundai service where they approved my vehicle for a new engine and included all labor and supplemental parts. They also rented me another Hyundai to use until fixed. I didn’t ask them to do anything before it was all set up with no hassle to me. Given that a JJP CE almost costs as much as Hyundai’s low end car note EVEN IT comes with a ten year bumper-to-bumper/100k, transferable warranty.
I think JJP needs to rethink and expand their warranty to become an industry leader and to show they stand behind their products and that they really care about customers. If they defined use as # months and or # lifetime plays. They could encourage operators to participate in the warranty. Pinball is a coin-operated device that is supposed to be played on location.

Pinball machines aren't cars and pinball companies aren't car companies.

Guaranteeing that ridiculous cart blanche warranty you suggest for TWO YEARS would endanger these companies to the point of bankruptcy.

You have to be a little more realistic.

Also carguments are stupid. Pinball machines, their intended uses, and the industries that produce them couldn't possibly be more different. Perhaps start your own "Bumper to bumper for two years 100 percent warranty all parts and labor included" pinball company and let's see how it works out for ya!

Also pinball machines don't have bumpers.

#261 2 years ago
Quoted from heyitsjoebob:

I'm so mad about it because I want a GnR, I've got a line on a gently used one in decent shape. But I'm so so nervous. I don't trust it. Might as well be buying an 80's Gottlieb. Same level of support. I don't think I'm ready for that for a $10,000 machine.

Just buy a DE one. Better game anyway.

#262 2 years ago

I'm not trying to take anything away from those that have chipping playfields and I feel your pain.. I want a perfect game too. This is just my personal feelings, and maybe it will help those that have the damaged machines will at least look at this in a positive light...

If I had been lucky enough to get a GNR 8-9 months ago for $9500 and had been able to put thousands of plays on it and explore the code with all the other excited pinball fans, it would have been worth it! I guess to me, life experiences are more valuable than having the perfect minty machine now (which it SHOULD be, but by misfortune, shitty practices, etc., isn't).

I do believe that those looking to move a machine around $9500 or close to it would have no problems moving the machine in a good market area. And to be honest, I saw machines moving at a $1K+ profit just a few months ago used.

Do I think JJP should step up? Yes. Would I turn this into a positive? Yep. Perhaps some have enjoyed the game and are raising the issues so hard because it's the right thing to do.. but the fact you haven't moved the game in the past 8-9 months when you could have for a profit tells me more.

Flame me if you want. Just being honest here.

#263 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Pinball machines aren't cars and pinball companies aren't car companies.
Guaranteeing that ridiculous cart blanche warranty you suggest for TWO YEARS would endanger these companies to the point of bankruptcy.
You have to be a little more realistic.
Also carguments are stupid. Pinball machines, their intended uses, and the industries that produce them couldn't possibly be more different. Perhaps start your own "Bumper to bumper for two years 100 percent warranty all parts and labor included" pinball company and let's see how it works out for ya!
Also pinball machines don't have bumpers.

also car manufacturers dont expect you to fix your own car

#264 2 years ago
Quoted from robotron:

also car manufacturers dont expect you to fix your own car

Correct, and you know that when you buy a car.

Again, comparing these two products/industries is pointless.

#265 2 years ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

Lol I don't think you have to worry.

No.

I have it from a solid source "Scooby Doo"

#266 2 years ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

Wasnt it a Home Depot?
Hard to tell...

Aah could be, it’s ME that experienced that at the grocery! Lol

11
#267 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

pinball machines don't have bumpers.

Except for pop bumpers, jet bumpers, thumper bumpers…

#268 2 years ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

Yep, toy story is gonna sell out, and sell out quick. Like it or not, right or wrong.

hmm.. I might probably order a toy story, but.. Im aint going to like it . (wink wink)

#269 2 years ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Except for pop bumpers, jet bumpers, thumper bumpers…

Touche...

But in that case, a pinball "bumper to bumper" warranty wouldn't really be worth much, now would it!

10
#270 2 years ago

I stopped buying JJP after I had to invest several hundred dollars for light boards that needed to be replaced because of an engineering defect. Didn't even sell them at cost to us.......lol.

#271 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Especially the ones with PF issues. Going to be interesting to see if they even sell.
I would maybe pick up one used after I inspected it, but I don't care what your price is - if it has PF issues I am not buying it from you

I'd buy one with playfield issues if the price is right.

The GnR at pinball garage has returned, and was fully working when I tried it last night. Was able to repeat the upper loop shot for the first time ever now that the flippers are correct. There's still scoring issues and too much focus on the song IMHO but it wasn't a bad playing game with all the hardware working as it should. I wouldn't mind owning one for a while to really dig into it, but the company's attitude is a real discouragement to buying, even used.

#272 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You just can’t affect how people want to spend their $$$.

So true. Plenty of people still waste lot of money on cigarettes. Better off buying JJP pinballs than that!

#273 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

So true. Plenty of people still waste lot of money on cigarettes. Better off buying JJP pinballs than that!

At least it not wasting money, like on chew, gambling, or women.

#274 2 years ago

Is there a form letter one can use for cancling a G&R due to warranty changes?

#275 2 years ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

At least it not wasting money, like on chew, gambling, or women.

All of those are better than cigs

#276 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

So true. Plenty of people still waste lot of money on cigarettes.

Probably semantics here, but I think using cigarettes as an example of how you can't affect how people want to spend their money (Iceman's point) is actually contrary to that statement.

Public awareness of the negative health impact of smoking, combined with the very heavy taxes levied on tobacco have resulted in nothing less than a dramatic reduction in smoking in the last few decades. So yes, in that situation, you CAN affect how people spend their money.

#277 2 years ago

124 upvotes and 0 downvotes...wow. Definitely some pent-up frustration here. Pinball warrantees have sucked for a long time. I avoid NIB JJP games because of the well documented PF issues...too much of a crap shoot.

The PF and butter cab on my Spooky R&M blows JJP away. Sure, R&M required a lot of dialing in, but the BOM parts were rock solid and high quality. The audio setup sounds great (much nicer than JJP/Stern). I trust Luke, Charlie and team and look forward to Ultraman! Spooky support has been great...they give a shit

Image 7-22-21 at 3.24 PM (resized).jpegImage 7-22-21 at 3.24 PM (resized).jpeg
#278 2 years ago
Quoted from Cobray:

I'm not trying to take anything away from those that have chipping playfields and I feel your pain.. I want a perfect game too. This is just my personal feelings, and maybe it will help those that have the damaged machines will at least look at this in a positive light...
If I had been lucky enough to get a GNR 8-9 months ago for $9500 and had been able to put thousands of plays on it and explore the code with all the other excited pinball fans, it would have been worth it! I guess to me, life experiences are more valuable than having the perfect minty machine now (which it SHOULD be, but by misfortune, shitty practices, etc., isn't).
I do believe that those looking to move a machine around $9500 or close to it would have no problems moving the machine in a good market area. And to be honest, I saw machines moving at a $1K+ profit just a few months ago used.
Do I think JJP should step up? Yes. Would I turn this into a positive? Yep. Perhaps some have enjoyed the game and are raising the issues so hard because it's the right thing to do.. but the fact you haven't moved the game in the past 8-9 months when you could have for a profit tells me more.
Flame me if you want. Just being honest here.

Thing is - I can buy a Stern or Spooky and have just as much fun without worrying about the PF
I Don't feel like I am missing out on anything
Actually feel fortunate I was not able to buy a CE and have to deal with the issues

#279 2 years ago

Just wanted to chime in regarding my experience with JJP support, as I have bought multiple machines from them alongside all the other pinball manufacturers for my pinball bar and route in Montréal (North Star Pinball).

Any time I have had an issue and opened a support ticket, JJP has been quick to respond and address the issue via email or phone call. Whether it was an RMA replacement, or something more complicated.

Even this week, when an opto board failed on my early production Dialed In purchased in 2017. Ken has been quick to help troubleshoot and offer solutions. Steve has also been great in the past as well.

Let’s just agree that the pandemic has been hard on everyone, and in my experience, JJP has continued to provide great support despite the challenges the pandemic has imposed on them. I don’t imagine it has been easy for them, and I for one will continue to support them as they push innovation and creativity in the pinball market. I think we are all better off with them in the mix!

#280 2 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

I stopped buying JJP after I had to invest several hundred dollars for light boards that needed to be replaced because of an engineering defect. Didn't even sell them at cost to us.......lol.

Yup, this is where they lost me as an operator/buyer.

You messed up by under engineering parts, and want me to pay (and provide hours of free labour) to correct your mistake, after coughing up $6500? And I have to pay for shipping the old ones back?

You just lost a customer. That's 5 NiB sales lost, so far. I actually do speak with my wallet.

#281 2 years ago

Well in a related story, I'm thankful to see the #righttorepair movement progressing quickly in other industries.

https://www.wired.com/story/ftc-votes-to-enforce-right-to-repair/

I'm just curious what the implications for the pinball industry might be? Something to keep an eye on for sure.

#282 2 years ago

I’d like to see a will you buy another JJP poll on this thread …

#283 2 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

I'm just curious what the implications for the pinball industry might be? Something to keep an eye on for sure.

Outside of warranty stuff, probably not a whole lot.

Documentation and schematics are (mostly) available, although that took a considerable amount of hounding about the stern spike system a few years ago to get those released.

3rd-party repair options are available, component-level parts are available, aftermarket parts are available...we're actually pretty lucky in this hobby.

#284 2 years ago
Quoted from Mrsiyufy:

I’d like to see a will you buy another JJP poll on this thread …

Without verification such a poll is worse than useless.

#285 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

“Like it is on my other pinballs”. You mean the Doctor Who?
It’s a good story but you missed several talking points in your list

Yes, I have 3 Doctor who Playfields currently with DiamondPlate from Bally. I also have 2 DE games TFTC and HOOK that I am restoring right now. I have been around pinballs since 1972, seeing your interested in my story. LOL.

DSCF2284 (resized).JPGDSCF2284 (resized).JPG
#286 2 years ago
Quoted from snaroff:

124 upvotes and 0 downvotes...wow. Definitely some pent-up frustration here. Pinball warrantees have sucked for a long time. I avoid NIB JJP games because of the well documented PF issues...too much of a crap shoot.
The PF and butter cab on my Spooky R&M blows JJP away. Sure, R&M required a lot of dialing in, but the BOM parts were rock solid and high quality. The audio setup sounds great (much nicer than JJP/Stern). I trust Luke, Charlie and team and look forward to Ultraman! Spooky support has been great...they give a shit
[quoted image]

“Lot of dialing in” is a gross understatement….

#287 2 years ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Without verification such a poll is worse than useless.

Verification of what? That participants are not cats?

kk-article-20210211-zoom-cat-filter-texas-lawyer-1200x675-1 (resized).jpgkk-article-20210211-zoom-cat-filter-texas-lawyer-1200x675-1 (resized).jpg

#288 2 years ago
Quoted from GrimDog:

“Lot of dialing in” is a gross understatement….

I'm not known for understatement, but I "get" some folks had it worse than others. Mine took a solid month to dial-in. Sorry if yours was worse...don't recall you from the main R&M bitch thread (doesn't look like you post very often). Hopefully the thread helped you resolve some of the issues...lots of helpful posts.

#289 2 years ago
Quoted from Tophervette:Yes, I have 3 Doctor who Playfields currently with DiamondPlate from Bally. I also have 2 DE games TFTC and HOOK that I am restoring right now. I have been around pinballs since 1972, seeing your interested in my story. LOL.
[quoted image]

Holy crap, lemme see that coin door please! That's awesome.

#290 2 years ago
Quoted from Mrsiyufy:

I’d like to see a will you buy another JJP poll on this thread …

Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Without verification such a poll is worse than useless.

73% would vote the "no" option on buying a NIB JJP right now out of frustration.

100% of those voters would sell grandma's painkillers on the black market to fund whatever CE JJP announces next.

#291 2 years ago

i will talk to jack g.. at pinfest.. and he will fix the problem!!

#292 2 years ago
Quoted from zh2oson:

73% would vote the "no" option on buying a NIB JJP right now out of frustration.
100% of those voters would sell grandma's painkillers on the black market to fund whatever CE JJP announces next.

I believe the sales repercussions are/will be greater than many are supposing. They lost me. I bought nib from them in the past. They seem to have lost a lot of their dedicated buyers here on Pinside. There won't be another gnr imho. The next game will be back to Wonka levels of excitement.

#293 2 years ago

Keep it up. Maybe they won’t charge so much for Toy Story

#294 2 years ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

I believe the sales repercussions are/will be greater than many are supposing. They lost me. I bought nib from them in the past. They seem to have lost a lot of their dedicated buyers here on Pinside. There won't be another gnr imho. The next game will be back to Wonka levels of excitement.

Depends on timing. If they released this year they will sell zero problem.

I had an ex boss who I have much respect for once teach me “don’t get caught with your hand in the cookie jar”.

Jjp is basically the Cookie Monster at this point. Horrible service WILL cost them, eventually.

#295 2 years ago

SEND PICTURES OF THE DAMAGED PLAYFIELDS ! LET EVERYONE TAKE A LOOK AND JUDGE FOR THEMSELVES!

#296 2 years ago
Quoted from loghome895:

SEND PICTURES OF THE DAMAGED PLAYFIELDS ! LET EVERYONE TAKE A LOOK AND JUDGE FOR THEMSELVES!

We’ve seen them for months.

#297 2 years ago

HAVE THEY BEEN POSTED HERE??

22
#298 2 years ago
Quoted from loghome895:

HAVE THEY BEEN POSTED HERE??

YES THEY HAVE JUST LOOK AROUND THEY ARE ABOUT AS HARD TO FIND AS WILL THE BUBBLE BURST THREADS!!!!

12
#299 2 years ago
Quoted from indybru:

Keep it up. Maybe they won’t charge so much for Toy Story

Quoted from loghome895:

HAVE THEY BEEN POSTED HERE??

Damaged JJP playfields are as prevalent as your caps lock key.

-4
#300 2 years ago

THEY ARE NOT POSTED IN THIS CATEGORY !

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