Maybe also move the start button to backbox so that pesky kids can't start a new game when you are getting a new GC There might be a market for fingerprint sensing start buttons...

True, one other side effect is they are bouncy and often the ball bounces off them and back up between the flippers into play! I still prefer the metal though even though they cut into the playfield and I have to install yet another set of protectors LOL.

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1192-apron-envy/04424-apron-edgers-stern-metal-aprons-with-riveted-eye-bolts

My AC/DC vault premium was plastic.

My mate had a Guardians of the Galaxy LE , and I'm 99% sure it was plastic .

Still get the Lazarus bounce with the metal ones plenty.

I'm currently watching TNT Allentown pinfest .
How is this guy gonna turn on a game where the on/off switch is .

IMG20210801011646 (resized).jpg

I think there were some that were plastic for lighting effects, but I have not seen plastic except in Pros for a while. My JP premium has cutouts for the lighting effects on the top of the metal apron.

Might makes right sure work(ed)s out well for lots of dictators. The only people that have to resort to physical violence to make a point are those that know they can't win otherwise. Insecure man babies that can't handle being wrong.

TWD Premium also has a plastic apron, probably because it was easier to alter for the crossbow mech.

People complaining about cost cutting as if it’s a bad thing. Pinball machines are too damn expensive now, if companies can cut costs without actually affecting the gameplay. I’m all for it.

Especially with some of the changes they made that I actually prefer, like the lock down bar. I was really surprised when I heard people complain about it, I thought it was great the first time I got a machine that had one.

I wondered why you didn’t have any JJP on route in Frisco. Makes sense now.

So every cost cutting move Stern has done is an upgrade...got it lol. "I like plastic better"...Maybe the cabinets should be plastic or sheet metal. Even if you like all of the cost cutting "upgrades" you should be asking yourself if Stern has passed those savings onto customers by means of keeping prices the same and or increasing features, code, and mechs in games? Doesn't seem like it, prices have gone up despite all of those changes.

How do you justify Stern's recent switch to using cheaper and lighter tilt bobs? The tilt bob in my TMNT Premium feels like it weighs half as much as the traditional tilt bob on Ghostbusters Premium. Why be so cheap and save money there of all places? Just another cost cutting move.

LOL you are really reaching. Did you even read my post? I explained my opinions. The lighter tilt bob is so that it won't stay swinging so long. This is so you don't have to do the ear plug mod. Look it up sometime.

Back in the day I remember buying lots of cabinet protectors well I don't remember buying any of them made out of metal? Probably because they would cut into both the cabinet and the leg and defeat the purpose. Plastic is better than metal for this purpose I don't care if it cost less.

Regarding the tilt bob topic you said "As for the tilt bob's, I will take your word on them since you must be Stern's accountant, but I have never noticed that they work any less effectively than any other tilt bob".

Yes, they are cheaper. It's lighter so it won't stay swinging so long?! My goodness, tilt bobs have been made the same way for 50+ years with no complaints. Why change the design now? It's only to make them cheaper and save 5 cents a game, ridiculous. It's as if Stern has quarterly meetings to discuss "What can we make cheaper next". Side note, it's nice JJP ships their games with the tilt bob (traditional design of course) already installed and secured for shipping with a small piece of foam.

I'm sorry for the rant, the tilt bob change is really an upgrade! Now my game is 1 ounce lighter when I move it.

If I can pay 25 bucks to replace a tilt bob from Stern, or 400 bucks for JJP to install a proper one, guess which I'm going to pick given all else is equal to me?

It might be a stupid decision, but that's partially why Stern has managed to generally maintain lower prices than JJP, along with their no doubt massive benefit of volume pricing compared to JJP. They can get away with it. It's harder to do that when you're thousands of dollars more expensive on the base model than your competitor.

Its actually heavier and higher BOM because of the cost increase to go to 3/4" birch plywood on the bottom of the cabinet. Check out the bottom side of your TMNT. No doubt that cost a lot more than the savings on the tilt bob. And yes, tilt bobs have had a problem over the years and became very obvious to tournament players and directors, hence the ear plug mod.

EMI radiation is reduced due to moving all 60Hz wiring inside the metal backbox. What this also does is make the certification inheritable from title to title without requiring retesting. We did the exact same thing when certifying equipment for use in aircraft at Grimes Aerospace. Any change in the lower cabinet requires the entire machine to be retested. Since everything remains in the head, as long as there are no major changes in the head, certification can be done by similarity and becomes a paperwork only affair. This saves costs (someone say cost cutting measure?) So anyone saying it isn't is fooling themselves.

Enough with the stupid power switch and lock bar debate. Done to death and nobody cares. Everyone builds their product to a price. EVERYONE. Geez. Of course JJP builds more expensive games because they are more expensive. Go figure.

I argue the cost savings is a side benefit. The certification streamlining was likely the driving force behind the descision. No risk of it being rejected if no one is looking at it again.

Regarding lock bars... anyone like lockbar latch design changes?

I kind of do; 1 clasp is pretty quick.
I also don't mind the power switch because I don't have tiny T-rex arms or too obese to bend my body

I'm glad he pointed that out because I hadn't noticed. Cost savings or not, it's a design improvement.

I was the tech for a big tournament in south Florida a few years back and Eric Stone (yes, the number 2 player in the world right now) was complaining about the tilt on Whitewater. He told me to open the coin door and guaranteed me the plumb bob would be moving even though no one had played it for a few minutes. I thought he was crazy, but sure enough I opened the door and the plumb bob was moving to the point where you would tilt with the slightest extra movement. That was long before we had heard of the ear plug trick that they used on many of the games at PAPA. I noticed that the bob in the WH2O was not the original WPC bob. That night we swapped the whole tilt assembly with another WPC game in the free play area and it fixed the problem probably because it was lighter.

These days most of the games in my game room have the ear plug installed to help this issue, and I am glad to know that Stern has listened to their designers like Keith and Ray and made the plumb bobs lighter. Those guys certainly know about issues with plumb bob design...

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/433855/why-do-lighter-pendulums-come-to-rest-faster-than-heavier-ones

Why you got to make it personal bro?

I'm pretty fat (5-9 290...) and I didn't object to it....aside from I'm trying to figure out where anyone would have to bend over to turn on a power switch on the head OR the cabinet....the only game I've ever really struggled to deal with my long George-of-the-Jungle arms is Revenge from Mars. Whatever dickhead decided to put that switch so far back on the underside of the cabinet deserved a good swift kick in the rear.

It was a joke Rob's a dumb ass but not dumb enough to talk shit about me I'd just sit on him while eating twinkies(that's a joke also).

I heb a gotg LE and apron is metal.

A word to the wise. Do as Zach M. just stated on his recent pinball podcast and dump your GNRs while there is still time before prices plummet even more. Like he said, a plummet in GNR value is coming big time.

wipe your chin

Oh I'm so sorry I didn't know you couldn't reach the switch!

I was hatin my GNR and was about to sell it but I think its starting to grow on me a bit. Only thing I dont like that scene with the skeletons doing it doggy style during some of the songs, kind of grosses me out a bit, not sure if thats the purpose.

You haven’t tried Skelton sex? Live a little buddy?

I think they’re great. My dumb ass was always trying to shut the door with the old ones while they are in the in the unlocked position.

It's funny because people always blame the tiny corner-brackets for those Stern cabinets falling apart. But my Whirlwind, and I assume most System 11s, had those exact same tiny metal-brackets, and my WW cabinet was solid as a rock. The problem is that the Stern cabinets, wooden corner-bracing, and glue aren't strong enough these days for tiny leg-brackets. So they need beefier brackets to compensate.

If Stern made their cabinets like the old Bally/Williams ones, then they could use tiny B/W style brackets. I actually like how lightweight Stern cabs are. Makes it much easier to setup games, move them around the house, or transport them.

Obesity is JJPs fault!

Ha, loooong before JJP was around

I knew my love handles was someone else’s fault !

Aren’t most of their games “widebodies”?

Right now. Half and half. Three of each.

LTG : )

Aren’t Wonka and GnR the only standard bodies ?

EDIT- TIL DI is a standard as well

JJP strike again. 12+ hours work damage proofing my CE before putting a single game on it. Excited to finally get to play it. I get the power cord out of the coin box and it’s a a European plug!!!!!

6E52E229-8452-40DA-B3DD-BBCAFFD57EEA (resized).jpeg

Not such a bad thing….just a trip to the hardware store - except it’s the third time from JJP. My Wonka and DI were the same.

JJP, all 240v countries DO NOT HAVE THE SAME PLUG!!!!

I don’t understand why this is such a hot issue for you, especially for home use. I have my pins on a switch, I flip the switch and they all turn on. If I didn’t have them on a switch, I would install a voice controlled outlet to turn them on. There are so many options to turn the pins on that don’t require you physically touching them.

honest question- do JJP games have a way of killing a game besides rebooting it? When Stern added this feature it made the relocation of the power button a little easier to swallow.

It's not a hot issue. It's just a really, really lame downgrade, along with the cheap-assed, Chinese power source with the shittiest fan you could possibly find.

You're actually suggesting that we invest in alternative tech as a solution? Lol.

"They put the light switch to my bedroom in the far side of the room just above the baseboard, but it's all good. I have wifi bulbs...."

Yes, there is a way. I found it in my GnR settings somewhere. I like the restart better, it just starts to ball 1 again vs Sterns just end the game and eject the ball.

You are talking "restart", Stern has that also. Restart just puts you back to ball one in a 1-player game. Reset will put you back to attract mode even from the middle of a 4-player game. So if some kid starts a 4-player game and walks away there is no reason to cycle power. You do this by holding the left flipper and start button until the game goes to attract mode.

Deez the most comforting thing about your situation is all your Stern machines are about to get an incredible upgrade. Unfortunately GNR is in a long line of old type pinball machines, destined to be somewhat forgotten. Stern’s are about to hit the next level in September with online play that will change the pinball industry. As a result all our Stern’s will substantially increase in value, because of the extended online playability. It will revolutionize the industry above and beyond what pinball has done over the decades of not much in the way of innovations.

Going into diagnostics and then back out again on a JJP game does what you want, I think? But requires access to the coin door of course.

My Hobbit already has the online upgrade (scorebit).. Not that I use it.
As far as "revolutionize the industry" - we shall see!

All jjp pins now have free scorbit ( for life ) and everything that entails .
Their last 3 games also have a built-in camera , so hopefully you'll be able to see your opposition if you play online .
Stern will have online leaderboards and also trophies for completing certain tasks and my gut feeling is you'll have to pay for that service .
Hopefully it will be for free , like jjp .

Lame arguments is what it is. Of all the things to complain about - a power switch? Nobody ever made a pinball buying decision based of a power switch. These games require a ton of maintenance and back pains to move but reaching for a switch is just way too much? Literally takes seconds to remedy with smart/remote switch but I guess that's just unbearable as well.