Trust me, all of our conversations would be so different in real life. Text is easy to misinterpret. Especially when hobbies and points of view are discussed. JJP’s new rules seem draconian and condescending to the collector. Mirco also can be dismissive over the years. Do I wish them out of business? Of course not. But if they don’t start adapting better to customer concerns then that decision may be made for them.

I can see how it comes across as I look like a jjp fanboy . I like to think , I try to give balance to the argument . Yes jjp can do alot better , but there are people who Stern has burnt as well .
They're a number of people on podcasts and Pinside , that have been let down by Stern , no company is perfect .
If I won lotto and could choose any pins , I would go for Elvira ,Terminator 3 and big buck hunter .
I don't care what " brand " you are into , I just want it to be fun .
I'm waiting on a Guns N Roses , so I have to try to be positive .
Hopefully threads like these give jjp the kick up the ass they need to sort out their customer service .

Thanks for that and I do hope the best for you and your machine is stellar and won’t need JJP customer service. No company is perfect and fun is the key word here. When do you anticipate receiving your new game?

I'll avoid JJP because their games are beautiful piles of crap that are less fun than a Zizzle.

I ordered in November , I had to play it first to make sure I liked it .
I haven't asked my distributor once , I know they haven't even got through October orders yet .
I don't mind waiting while they hopefully sort out the Playfield issues .

It comes across that ur a fanboy cause this is ur defence of any criticism towards JJP. We aren't talking about Stern, they have their own threads for the crap they pull.

The PF is the foundation of the game. It's wood ink and clear coat. Nothing new or cutting edge. This was perfected 30 years ago so no excuse other than trying to be cleaver at cutting costs in the process.
A new playfield replacement is no solution. I cringe at the idea of doing a swap on a complex JJP game. You could screw up in a lot of places and have a broken game you can't fix. Let alone the time investment or the fact many people are not able to take on such a job.
I think all of us as a community would LOVE if Mirco went out of business and was replaced by a better company. Just like we would love for JJP to fix the problem and continue making well designed games for years and years.

They couldn't even talk each other into including cliffys on DI during "the good times."

And you come across as a fanboy when you upvote something as ignorant as puffdannys post!

That's kind of the point of my post... if Pat can't get JJP to do the right thing, is TS heading for the same train wreck on track 69?

(Oh, do you need a shine?)

I received both packs of protectors.
First JJP’s too thick and then they sent me out a complete set of Cliffys quality pieces.Steve and Frank dealt with every early issue I had with DI and it’s has stayed dialed in ever since!

Yes that's the issue. They should have been on the game @ launch...plus the whole home made cliffy thing was embarrassing.

if its crap they should not be selling it.

In good old 'merica, it's always been caveat emptor, not caveat venditor

Puff who?

Hey Romulick, "build quality" whistle:

Your not addressing my comment at all.My comment was about you upvoting a stupid comment that JJP plays like a Zizzle.
Cmon man!

Romulick... sorry gang. That was funny.

Old Jaxoff has been calling me that forever.He’s such a wordsmith?

Fake news! He said JJP games are less fun than a Zizzle. I had to upvote him for going balls deep.

Pinside stupidity

Exactly. So how come Stern also had issues with playfields in the last 24 months or so? Everybody remembers the Ghostbusters fiasco.

All pinball companies and their customers would benefit from having a good playfield manufacturer around.

I understand that JJP is handling this issue poorly. But let's not lose focus on the fact that the catalyst is a 3rd party pf maker.

I am the second owner of my Hobbit LE. Even though I am not the original owner, JJP sent me for free, all the recall components over a period of months. They even paid for shipping. These components include instructions with color pictures.

I mean, there's no way anybody at JJP wanted this GnR PF fiasco. Of course not...

You two better shush before the teacher overhears!

The thing is these pinball manufacturers are the ones putting themselves in these situations.

They clearly said 'playfield issues have been resolved'. There is only 1 way to know that. To actually play it, and play it and play it. Same with any other recurring issue. It isn't going to show itself after a few minor flips of the ball.

It doesn't take a microscope to find many of these issues after a few 100 plays. I mean this across the board. If you can't take the time to actually test your product before mass producing it, that's on you. I'm not speaking of just JJP. Most all of the manufacturers have been guilty of this. You aren't going to find every issue, but the stuff people are complaining about aren't unknowns.

The difference is in how they proceed from there.

What about Jaxoff? That's nothing new u know. And lets not forget there are variations to "Romulick" like "romulick other mens balls" Romulick my balls" Romulick ur own balls" I will try to change it up now, need a bit of time.

That was the part I was agreeing with and I don't even understand it. I assume "zizzle" means "boring" but who knows. The joy I'm getting here is having to listen to all the crap about the greatness and superiority of JJP games for the last like 7 yrs and many are realising its just another pinball company. "Build quality"

Agreed. You'd think that if the pf gets destroyed later, it was even "softer" at the factory during the tests (when the clearcoat was fresher). Good point.

There's no helping you man.Were done!

The problem isn’t micro playfield entirely. A lot of it is the JJP engineering and the installers. Sloppy holes around the posts and then the posts being over tightened will destroy a playfield. All of a sudden you’ve got a lot of movement through the middle of the clear instead of just through the top. Any playfield will have a problem if the stuff on top isn’t installed properly

Learn to read bud....or you just look stupid!!! I said JJP is less fun than a Zizzzle. JJP wishes their stuff played as good as a Zizzle.

Thats it!
I am in.

I do not blame Mirco at all. His playfields are not something I would buy. JJP are subcontracting him so the blame rests fully on them. JJP have had ample opportunity to source other playfield manufacturers or find a solution to rectify the issue. Same goes with whatever else is not right, JJP are ultimately in control so ultimately responsible.

I sincerely hope JJP get on top of these issues. I think they are seriously damaging their brand by not resolving their outstanding issues, especially with repeat loyal customers. Unresolved issues fester, they rarely go away. There are way too many unhappy customers ready to slam JJP every chance they get.

He says behind his keyboard 440 miles away!Whatever you said was ignorant and doesn’t show any ability to discern any differences.

Looking at your collection I can see why you think Zizzzle is the pinnacle of pinball.

That shipped has sailed for him. In fact its sailed and its sunken deep into the high sea. He keeps telling me "were done" but won't block me cause it will make him appear weak. Its a just a matter of though, no one fucks with Hazoff, Hazoff does the fuckin. Oh yeah

This thread is reminding me of the great days of RGP all over again. Pages and pages of personal attacks. When does the Spokeo $1 info get publicly posted on someone?
Please….continue…

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Pinball shaming

EXTRA Butter! PLEASE!

*Rant post

The bickering in this thread is almost as bad as the great WOZ Wars of 2013 - 2015 lol. Things got so bad with the personal attacks that mods stepped in and created the very first owners thread, that being for WOZ, where owners could discuss the game in peace.

There's a number of Stern super fans in this thread that love to regularly bash JJP . They often post blanket generalized statements that all JJP pins are bad and not fun. That is such an immature view with zero integrity behind it. All modern pinball is fun, there's really no terrible modern games, but for a select few on here they will relentlessly bash JJP. Personally I think it comes from a place of being pissed off that a new company one upped Stern when it came to offering customers more value for their money in regards to code, features, mechs, animation quality, etc. The type and amount of bashing against JJP is a way in their minds to justify how little Stern often puts in their games. Again, just my opinion.

These same JJP bashers will label me as a JJP fanboy who "bashes" Stern (bashing meaning providing criticism) yet I've bought multiple NIB Stern and JJP pins over the years. In a two month period I purchased a NIB TMNT Premium and a GNR Premium. The TMNT Premium is an awesome game and I've been happy with the build quality. However, I could tell the moment I opened the GNR LE box just how much more value I get for my money from a JJP product. From the packaging, to the head being made entirely of wood, to the amount of hardware components, the way the cabinets are made (finish, wood, etc), mechs, animation amount / quality, etc it's clear that JJP is putting more into their games. This doesn't mean Stern is bad or JJP is better, just an observation.

Regardless of how much JJP is putting into their games they need to step up their playfield build quality, customer service, and warranty. Creating fun, and loaded games means nothing if the most foundational item on a pin, the playfield, is screwed up. Also, downgrading warranties policies is a terrible look that basically states to customers "We don't stand behind are products". A company cannot market themselves as making the industries highest end pins with this type of playfield quality and warranty policies.

3 2 1 Done!!

Haggis did the sledgehammer test, time for someone to one up them with the chainsaw test. Then and only then will we know the pf's and art/clear are solid.

Ask anyone fool, what I say 440 miles away would be said twice as loud to your face and all you would do is PISS YOUR PANTS!!!!

This is a comical rant my friend PFreak. You so bash Stern in a sideway manner and never stop. The rest of us give constructive criticisms about both companies in the areas they need to improve. It just so happens, JJP has the most areas to improve and they do not have the “quality” you speak of. It’s all part of the illusion like the all wood back box you mentioned, which is excessively heavy, adding unwanted weight. There is an additional important reason Stern builds them as metal. Metal back boxes are far better engineered quality, built into all Stern’s over JJPs. George Gomez recently explained, the main reason for a metal back box is fire hazards are greater with all wood, in a barcade setting, where the machines are on nearly nonstop and the back box heat is immense. Stern does things for solid engineering, safety and beneficial reasons. JJP with far less experience, gives almost no consideration to those things and usually chooses off the shelf or inferior solutions.

There is no illusionary JJP so called “quality”. Every Stern I’ve purchased just works right out of the box. Every JJP has been a monumental “constantly fixing” undertaking for myself and friends that own them. At one friends house that has nearly all of them: JJP machines are constantly being restarted or needing some kind of fix all night long. While Stern, B&W, Spooky, CGC and AP machines keep on working without issues. There is no such thing as quality JJP anything and that’s not conjecture on my part, but provable fact. Even JJP agrees with my assessment. Just look at their newly downgraded “almost no warranty” policies for proof. JJP also thinks their “poor quality” stinks, so they will no longer allow the many claims they’ve been receiving from many customers dealing with their poor quality products at every turn. Wake up PFreak and smell the roses. You’ve become too drunk on JJPs toxic koolaid, lol.

But let's separate "solid engineering" and "beneficial reasons". One helps you, the consumer, and the value Stern may ultimately bring. The other is the exact opposite, as seen by many Sterns in the WWE/GB/AS era of production runs.

Here is a WWE I passed on buying a month or so ago. Do I want to buy a game with torn decals and a weekend long project to properly reinforce? The GB I saw in a new location the other day was so bad, it's on a wheely cart... all because Stern wanted to save $2 in brackets in their BoM. Is that solid engineering or beneficial reasons? B/C at times they're 100% mutually exclusive.

Ugh (resized).jpgWell then... (resized).jpg

Nobody can seem to chime in here without taking a side, it’s fuckin gold

That's the way of the world these days.

I would put a washer on that

Both companies suck. There I said it

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I think JJP quality control is the least if their worries - they continually make the most boring games ever. Might look good at times but I always feel like letting it drain after a few balls!

Whats Done? Did u just count urself down to a blocking? Wow

The victim mentality of the JJP fanboys is shocking.

What are you talking about , half the posts on this thread are about Stern

The cabinet issues had nothing to do with brackets. Those brackets don’t hold the cabinet together. Proper construction of the joints and glue does. Look at all the thousands of games that came before GB that didn’t have this issue, and didn’t use the WPC brackets.

They simply got a bad batch of cabinets from their vendor.