The dimpling explaination is BULLSHIT, I can't see any dimpling on my jp prem, but my STh pro has a shitload my WOZ HAD LIKE 8 dimples. It doesn't bother me that it's there, it bothers me that on some games it is and some isn't and their generic response to it is it's normal- clearly that isn't the case.

What they are implying is that the wood quality is a crap shoot these days, some is as hard as "The Rock Johnson", others are softer than grandpa without his Viagra

Exactly. JJP started out positioning themselves as a premium brand model to emerging home buyers.
At this point they need to just fix the issue.

Yah that is pretty lame...

The answer to that is to do a better job sourcing your materials.

Telling the customers your playfield may not be up to par and its a crap shoot isnt cool.

Can you imagine if Martin guitar included a letter saying:

" Thanks for the thousands of dollars. Be advised the top of your instrument may or may not crack or warp based on the quality of wood we source"?

Isn't this Ovation's sticker on their guitars? I heard Ovation is making a violin now. It's called the "Violation"

The brand has always been at odds with the business plan though. They have already needed to be bailed out and the pencil pushers have forced them to cut more corners, move to Chicago, etc.

When you are Amazon or Apple you can treat the customers like Saudi Royalty because your scale is so massive. JJP simply can't afford to treat the customers at the level that matches their marketing and branding. All of the solutions people suggest, from remediation of flaws to sourcing better parts and building better products, costs money - potentially lots of money.

So the obvious response from JJP will be to continue raising the cost of games to help cover the increasing costs of doing business with an increasingly demanding customer base.

Jjp have better wood for their playfields than Stern . I heard Carla D'Angelo say Stern have 7 layers and jjp have 11 , or something like that .
Both Stern and jjp have problems with art coming off , but Stern have playfields that bow like bananas .

In other words, RtFM.

And read Stern's manual when you're done with JJP's.

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MandoManualSS (resized).png

They're both equally as useless , they'll lonely fix something if they want to .

Wow! So who copied who? Or did they just both hire the same lawyer who was too lazy to rewrite it for the next company?

Whoah! Thank goodness neither myself or anyone I know have ever experienced this - sounds terrible!

Pretty sure jersey Jack copied Sten from what I have heard .
Every insurance policy has a clause in fine print , where they don't have to pay you , if they don't want to .

I've also never experienced it skank , but other people have .

Marvelous - thank you!

Well, I agree. JJP increased costs+lower BOM and cheaper inventory parts? Stern?? Is that you?

No worries mate

LMAO.

I have zero issue with any of what they said in this note. Dimples are impossible to mitigate, and they shouldn't be replacing pf's because one tiny corner of an insert is ghosting. What they lay out in this letter I think are reasonable expectations a pinball owner should have. However, art chipping off the playfeild and giant washers to cover it up as a band-aid is completely unreasonable and aren't normal manufacturing variations nor simple physics in action, it is a DEFECT.

The EU has a 2-year warranty law in place. Has anyone tested it on pins?

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/faq/index_en.htm

https://whatconsumer.co.uk/eu-directive-sale-of-goods/

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1677034/Two-year-warranty-EU-law.html

They Do?

Never heard that before.

Yeah it happened on like two Led Zeppelins and populated replacement playfields were provided.

Unfortunately, everything is so steeped in hyperbole these days it can be hard to wade through it.

I've seen one JP2 bowed enough that a straight edge laid above the slings had room for a pencil under one end of the straight edge. An unpopulated pf was begrudgingly sent and the owner did the swap themselves.

Now you tell me. Wow.

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lmao!

The rumors were true !!

Lol. There’s a banana in my tail pipe And my pinball machine!

There have been very few warped playfields and reports of Stern replacing them with fully populated playfields. An apples to oranges comparison because of the relative few compared to the many. Also, the art coming off was solved by Stern over a year ago by not putting art under the posts and eventually a new thinner harder clear. My LZ and April 2021 JP Premium have beautiful clearcoat with no issues at all after hundreds of plays. More importantly, I wasn't the slightest bit worried they would have problems when I bought them.

My what a large tail pipe you have.

LTG : )

100% couldn't agree more.

You sound reasonable enough... problem is 90% of the other buyers are not.

People these days go over their games with a magnifying glass almost as if they want to find issues.

I called the number three times but didn't get the phrase that pays.

JJP have completely abandoned their customers and their distributors and I really feel sorry for the latter; their CEO doesn't even respond to messages from customers and my distributor has been left out to dry with the cheese that is GNR playfields.

I bought a GNR LE after JJP publicly stated they had resolved all the playfield issues for GNR. That was clearly a lie. I had a bunch of issues for my Dialed In also that I ended up importing parts from China directly to resolve.

I've had three significant playfield issues, two with Stern and one with Spooky. All fully resolved.

We have choice, vote with your money.

Neil.

And this is why we have this shit.

I looked into this a while back. The challenge is that its with the distributor that you take this up with. If I thought that action would be brought on JJP I'd do it in a heartbeat. My distributor is a great guy and a friend and I don't want to fall out with him. He has gone above and beyond in supporting me on the GNR shit show with zero help from JJP.

There is another route with trading standards here in the UK around specific manufacturers that we are looking into.

Neil.

I’ve gotten better warranty from Samsung on a $1500 tv! The thing crapped itself 5x in 3 years. The final time they didn’t want to do anything but in the end I got my money back! Australian consumer warranty for the win! And that was only on a $1500 tv not at $16,500 pinball machine! Yes there are things that’ll go wrong but I baulked at pirates because of the issues and definitely left my money in my wallet for GnR because people were getting left high and dry from pirates and wonka isssues! Not interested JJP not interested at all. I wish Barry didn’t leave American pinball, he was super helpful and made my experience with faults a breeze to deal with I don’t know if he has the power to do so on that side of the coin.

I suspect it's your bogus take on Stern support. I've owned 30+ Sterns. I'd rate their support 9/10. Their tech support rocks. Dorothy rocks. Parts readily available and quick to ship. From coil stops to mechs to boards to populated playfields and even a replacement lower cabinet they have taken care of me. They are the industry standard in this department.

Well..... he does stand beside his products!

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Unfortunately my GNR playfield looked like the ruby reds had been walking all over it, and I was offered “some washers, and perhaps a tshirt”.

Never again.

Back in my old prison days, I got a banana in my tail pipe.

I am really surprised at all the bad experiences people have had with JJP here. I’ve had a few issues with my Wonka and all three times I had prompt responses and they helped resolve the issue. The first was a damaged back glass that they replaced very quickly. The second was a broken Oompa Loompa that was smashed mid game that they again promptly replaced. And the last was my topper stopped lighting and they sent out a replacement and asked me to ship the broken one back. And even on the boards here, I had a pinsider who worked for JJP and he went back and forth with me for hours to help resolve an issue with my wonkavator. I am in no way trying to diminish the OP’s experience but I just wanted to say that I have been very lucky with my experiences and would buy another JJP game in a heartbeat.

Is this Jack in disguise ?

No, sadly I’m just Jersey Joe, but if I ever met Jack in the swamps of Jersey I’d give that guy a huge thank you. I think his games helped raise the bar for the entire industry. 10 years ago, I didn’t enjoy Stern games very much. They felt kind of cheap and uninspired. But after WOZ and the rest, Stern upped their game,in game design. And now we have amazing releases every couple of months. What a great time to be a pinball fan.

It sure is .Thankfully there’s only a big 2 for me now it will make decisions easier .JJP is the the girl that keeps cheating on every boyfriend .Eventually somebody marries her

JJP=Just Janky Playfields

:facepalm:
Then; you sir, are taking a serious gamble on a future game.
Be grateful you've gotten the support you deserve... because many have not.
I'll never buy a JJP product... no matter the dream theme... because until they become the industry leader they claim to be; they'll still trash their customer base with worthless warranties or lack there of.
I can't and WONT spend 1000s of dollars on a item that won't last more than a couple hundred plays.

Wow , that's amazing , what are the odds , the only bowed playfields went to people who stream , Carl D'Angelo , Jeff Teolis , Neil McRae

Edit - Neil's game was Avengers infinity Quest not Led Zeppelin .

He should do a search for “JJP tongue in bung club” he’d be welcomed with open cheeks .

This is another thing that chaps my hide about companies today, but...that's a different thread.

It is. Makes the game quite literally unplayable.