I was blown away with the lightshow on JJP GAMES back in 2007... I never fell in love with any of their layouts but having POTC I do like the gameplay and some modes. I can't say I want to hold onto potc forever at all. But JP2 I will never give up... especially after the great video and audio assets integrated into the game by other hobbyists.

Keith Elwin is in another realm of game design, his shots flow so well, and he makes games with a ruleset that has fun and challenging gameplay from start to finish! For everyone making a decision based on the surface take a look at the rules in this game, I love how he changes rules depending on which faze of thor multiball or which Ironman multiball you're starting, or each unique gem gameplay features, also the difference in points based on how you approach each mode...

For me I loved the LOOK of GNR lighting and the kneck of the guitars integration LOOKS COOL, as well as the drum sticks, but they don't keep me wanting to keep playing the machine like a keith elwin design or ruleset. I look at the shots on GNR and I don't see the flow... I also look for
Unique rules and see multiple multiball modes that will give you more points based on more balls locked or less if you bring more into a multiball so that is some basic risk reward. I also like the risk in not cashing the song jackpot or rewards in just grabbing points available by shooting the shot.

I just cant see myself having as much fun with this machine...

I can add lighting, mods, video assets and sound to my Avengers based on what I find tasteful and positively improved the theme, but I wont have a chance to improve GNR shots or gameplay/rules out of box.

For me after watching hours of gameplay I can't jump on board without playing the machine. With keiths games I've had three outings that prove I can invest snd not be dissatisfied.

Right, based on my 5000ft view of others streams.

It only took me an Avengers prem/LE reveal video to drop my deposit. Saw Keith designed it check, The flow of his layout, the Avengers tower integration, the dr. Strange spinning sling ring/ball lock, Avengers CPU bingo modes, the ability to collect all of the gems to keep thanos from collecting to his physical gauntlet on the playfield, the PYM vertical upkicker / scoop shot the flight 2k ball lock, captain Marvel gravity defying barrel roll shot, the black panther right orbit shot that has the ability to be hit from plunge, left lower and upper flippers, the gauntlet ramp that also has three ways to shoot it.

GNR revealed a game that had better quality eye candy on the playfield in guitar knecks and drum sticks as well as a slash hat sculpt and pair of rgb accentuated spinners, as well as a spinning record. All of that was stuff that I knew would look better than Avengers on the surface. Then add TWO DUAL AXIS RGB LIGHT CANS, SIX HEXAGONAL 12 RGB LIT STAGE LIGHTS AND THEIR ALMOST ALWAYS INCORPORATED LCD SCREEN, you have a incredible PACKAGE WITH MORE LIGHTS THEN BOTH STERN 2020 RELEASES HAS HAD THIS YEAR, SHIT they have more RGB LIGHTS IN THE CE EDITION THEN STERN HAS PUT RGB LIGHTS IN THEIR LAST TEN PLUS GAMES COMBINED! I Love that about JJP they dont skimp on the over all package.... but the games just don't keep me coming back like Keith elwin and Lymans games do.

I got that.

My wife actually told me today she wants an GnR LE so we will probably be putting one in our home shortly.

I love what JJP brings with every game they produce! I've played them all, and own Eric's first effort. By far the best JJP machine out.... but the problem for me is each JJP machine has the same team of coders and I'm not really sold on the pdf file code breakdown... Or more importantly, the hours of gameplay that I've watched thus far. I will however vote for Avengers because the gameplay I've seen along with the rule set break down THUS FAR is clearly the superior of the two AT THIS POINT.

I see you've not had one stern machine in your history I wish you and I were neighbors! I'd love to have you over to play my JP2 (Keith's sophomore effort.) Or my Avengers prem when It arrives... his games play extremely unique from all other stern machines of past and present. He also builds the foundation of rules to each of his games on his own with support from his talented team mates which now includes Raymond Davidson!

I feel the pain of every single pinball enthusiast who is in love with the great machines stern pinball has made over their 30 years of manufacturing pinball for all markets, BUT have felt like stern has continued to cut costs on their products while not offering their collector/hobbyist a SOLID MACHINE THAT PLAYS LIKE A BALLY/WILLIAMS MACHINE FROM THE PAST... Or it looks like they did. Data east, sega, and stern pinball have always cut costly theme integration in the form of unique sculpts, ramps, mechanical devices such as diverters, subways, spinners, solid wood cabinets, drop targets, pop bumpers with action, sling shots with action, right down to just replacing standard pop bumper caps with flat plastics, often times any theme integration was just a flat plastic PERIOD! Think JP pro raptor, all signs from map, ramps, and helipad, Ghostbusters pro library and ghost trap, AC/DC CANNON,TNT DETONATOR AND DANCING BAND MEMBERS ARE A JOKE! , Deadpool on a hammock and chimichanga truck, the different eddies from iron maiden pro, the Avengers pro & premium sanctum, Avengers pro Gauntlet, the Avengers tower is just four plastics sandwiched together, JP pro/prem T-rex fence is plastics, raptor tower also several plastics pieced together!!!! It make us all sick!

Hopefully the gameplay will continue to get better and stern will see JJP as a bigger threat than a once a year blip on the radar.... but we NEED JJP TO BUILD GAMES WITH A QUICKNESS AND PUT OUT MORE TITLES A YEAR! Lets face it stern has built and sold more machines this year than JJP HAS SOLD OF ALL TITLES THEY SHIPPED PRIOR TO GNR.

Agreed Imagine if Rick and Morty were done by Zombie Yeti! He could have made that machine worthy of the 9k price point! I love the gameplay because of the call outs and episode oriented modes but the art and rather funky design flow made it hard for me to want it in my collection of only a few machines based on current space limits. The side art was just a freaking joke as well! My kid could have done a better job with it.