All those are low. Pre-order will be $6400-6700 on the LEs.

I'm guessing 7500+ for LE pre-orders.

That would drive a lot of people out of the hobby I bet.

I was told that pricing would be in line with recent Stern pricing.

I paid $6700 for my LTBR and I expect pricing to be similar to that.

So Avengers is going to have laser cut side rails
I mean, that was the reason that the AC/DC LE's were more expensive than the XMEN by a few hundred dollars.

I'm hoping the LE Avengers are LE's like LTBR an BnB. - armor- speakers etc.
It would suck if the LE Avenger was priced like those yet had slight downgrades like ACDC prem.

7500 and I am out. Now its a principal thing.

I hope so!

Very similar to my thoughts. I got a refund on WOZ - no regrets. I am thinking of bailing on Predator as well.

After owning Magneto out of box, I now realize that code is everything. Every game I love would not be great without a good code.

I doubt I will buy another NIB for a while unless I know who the programmer is - Lyman or Keith I would though.

Seems more and more collectors are taking a pause and I wonder what the longer term implications are for the LE model?

No offence but I think you people are crazy. You put money one the table before you see the game and more money to get a LE that you havn't seen. The code is going to be unfinished and you can safely bet that it wont be for a long time if ever. I bit one the X-Men and it was shit. Ill never do it again. If you let Greedy Gary stew and not put up money in advance he will put more effort into his games and come off the price. I would love a Avengers but I don't want more of the same old over priced shit that has been put out in the past few years.

At least with Stern you get an actual machine. You pay and it gets shipped (within a few weeks).

With JJP you pay 2+ years and advance and hope a machine arrives.

This is why I'm still in for WOZ...Keith with no constraints has to = awesome code. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, but in listening to what he has said I have extreme faith.

I am tired of paying to R&D Sterns NIB pins.... As much as I love new sh*t.... This one can wait till I play it...

You do get your game shipped soon after you pay, yes you do but you get a somawhat rehashed cheaply made machine with incomplete code and most likely other problems.

What Im saying is that these patterns would change if people stopped throwing their cash at Greedy Gary before the pin even hit the trucks. Now he wants money before you even get to see a pic? no way.

This isn't an apologist post, so hopefully nobody takes it that way, but even in the Bally/Williams golden age code wasn't always complete at time of shipping, and updating code meant swapping out ROM chips. It sucks that we have a "ship it now and patch it later" mentality, but these things aren't new to pinball. If you were a NIB buyer back in the '90s, you'd still be gambling a bit. Heck, look at Cirqus Voltaire and Cactus Canyon. Neither would be considered complete.

That said, no way that I'm preordering a pinball machine without seeing pictures, hearing it play, and seeing video of a lengthy play session.

Uh... That ain't Gary.

Stern isn't asking pin buyers for money before they see pictures. Distributors are asking people for money if they want to make a deposit on an LE. Which makes sense right?

It is obvious that there are enough people out there that like the product they produce enough to put down money sight unseen. How is this Stern's problem?

"Greedy Gary". Seriously. How dare he ask money for pinball machines! How dare he make an in demand product and charge what the market will bear! Where will the madness end?

I suppose he could listen to people who call him names, call his products shit and say they will never buy one. That would be a winning business strategy...

I think much of the frustration comes from Stern shipping out games that aren't tested as good as they should be. With X-men, how could Stern have looked over the Wolverine mount? I mean even I could tell you that it was mounted wrong just by looking at it. Surely somebody in the Stern factory said something or made a comment about it but it got blown off. While it was an easy fix, it is still the sh*t like this that stirs the pot. And the money comments only follow because they are rushing these things out the door trying to produce as much as they can while sacrificing quality to their customers.

+1

I think this is very accurate. Code issues and updates are the norm in pinball. And it is to our benefit when they can add features and tweak a game based on players input.

Those who have problems with Stern shipping games with less than complete code need to ask themselves, "would I rather have a Stern game in my home to play for 1 year, and play through 3-4 code updates during that time, or have no JJP game for that same year, but have it ship with more complete code?" For me personally, I'd rather have the game and play it.

The mechanical issues and problems are far more problematic and where I think Stern really needs to step up their game. No excuse for lack of basic playtesting.

I agree they need better QC on both hardware and software. Costs Stern more cash than it costs us to have obvious problems go out. On the Wolverine mount though, I'd say it was more of a bad design call than a QC issue, and as you said, simple to fix.

It might have been, but if you are testing and you have an obvious flaw like that wolverine, why wouldn't they make another prototype before producing 500 flawed toys for the LEs? I mean that is just lack of trying or really bad business sense.

I am assuming here that you are talking about the wolverine being mounted where it makes the Beast lane shot really tight. That is not a flaw with the Wolverine figure that they would discover during testing. Moving the wolverine is something that a lot of LE owners have done to open up the Beast lane more as they felt the shot was too tight. From what I have read in other posts, it was positioned exactly where Borg wanted it. How is that a problem that they would detect during testing?

Doesn't he mean the fact that they had to shave off a load of Wolvie's arm to stop ball hang up's?? Would rather my figure had a whole arm really

Hi JPOP,
"Poor Quality" (x-Men LE) =
1.) Post by ramps caused way too many air balls...easy and cheap fix should have been done at stern.
2.) Wolverine toy was improperly mounted...it felt that this was a shortcut fix by stern that was again an easy fix but it shows poor qc IMO and the plastic piece they cut in half to fit wolverine's arm is an eye sore after wolverine is moved to line up with the lit arrow and match the pro.
3.) apparently stern expects you to re-tap all the leg bolt holes in the cab. Mine stripped two holes out of the box equals poor quality to me.
4.) aux board blew twice...sometime shit happens I don't blame qc too much on this one.
5.) original code was horrible.
These things together left an inadequate initial feeling but overall the game is fun (after last two code updates) and I don't regret the purchase but as x-men was my first nib stern.
I still feel X-men has a lot of potential to be a great game.

Look at where Wolverine is mounted on the pros and tell me they didn't make an adjustment. I can't speak for the rest of the LE owners but mine didn't line up to the magnet like that. Also, I want to point out that I am generally happy with my game. I don't mind having to fix this kind of stuff because I am capable of doing it. I'm just pointing out that these are the kind of things that are leading to peoples diminishing faith in Stern products, specifically the early limited edition runs.XMenPro-Playfield.jpg

At what point did I say that LE and Pro wolverines were in the same place? Your argument is that there was an obvious defect with the positioning of the Wolverine on the LE. My argument is, that to the best of my third-hand knowledge, it was placed exactly where they intended.

I guess believe whatever you want.

Back on topic: Go avengers!

Maybe it was, but why did they change it on the pro? Because the LE owners tested the game for them and complained. Then they fixed it on the pro. Which takes me back to my first argument about not testing their games enough. Anyway, it doesn't matter, buy what you want with your money and I will do the same.

I really wish the pro's game out first.
Then the le's could have the chance to be a much truer version of the best game money could buy.

It would be nice but the business model they are running today would never allow it. They are selling the LE's because everyone is going in to it blind based on hype of the theme and faith in Stern. If they came out with the pro first and it was a stinker with incomplete code all the distributors would be sitting there waiting for new code so they could sell their LE's. I think we have all learned that buying NIB sight unseen is a big risk on our part.

Stern isn't asking pin buyers for money before they see pictures. Distributors are asking people for money if they want to make a deposit on an LE. Which makes sense right?

No problem. If you want to put your money down on something sight unseen that has a rep for being unfinished with poor quality control knock yourself out. If people would wait and make sure the game is good and finished they might not buy a game they will want to dump in two weeks. Ahem X-Men
It is obvious that there are enough people out there that like the product they produce enough to put down money sight unseen. How is this Stern's problem?

It isn't Sterns problem, he is making bank. See above answer.

"Greedy Gary". Seriously. How dare he ask money for pinball machines! How dare he make an in demand product and charge what the market will bear! Where will the madness end?

The market won't bear it for much longer and more and more people are getting fed up and not buying. And yes I say Greedy Gary. W/B would never have put out games as unfinished as Stern. No matter what anyone says W/B games did not dimple like Stern games do and you did not see the planking of the PF like you do on Sterns either. This is my opinion but I think Sterns games are rehashed designs with differerent themes
I suppose he could listen to people who call him names, call his products shit and say they will never buy one. That would be a winning business strategy...

No but he could listen to peoples complaints ans sugestions. He could put out a game with more finished code and/or he could make sure it gets finished. As long as people are throwing cash at him he will give as little as he has to. Think of the crap he would be putting out if Jack hadn't started his own pin production.

Think what you want. Buy what you want. All I'm saying is that if all the pinheads stopped buying as soon as a game was announced the games would get better. Let him have a game sit in his factory unsold and he will make the next one better. I stepped up for a X-Men and I sold it 2 weeks later as the game and the code was shit the PF had dimples all over it. Ill pass on the next and wait for JJP to put out a good one.

Have a good day

OHHHHHH REALLLLY Everything that came from Lenc Smith had wood issues.

Oh boy...

This dude has willies dick up his ass lol. They dimpled like mad and LS cab and pf's where the suck.

Yup.

You don't get out much do you. There are tons of B/W games with planking issues and most look like the smooth side of a golf ball.

On a speculative note...I hope Avengers has the color changing inserts that AC/DC had. It will look really cool if a bunch turn green for Hulk, alternate or chase Red/White/Blue for Captain America, etc.

That would be awesome. Probably have to see it in person to appreciate it.

LTG : )

Did not even think of that. First real exciting thought on the title so far.

You would think that Stern would put out some kind of blurb on their website or facebook that an announcement is going to be made tomorrow if that is indeed the case

I hope the Stern guys thought of it!!!!

The original pics of the playfields that were released before the LE ever made it to customers shows the Wolverine in the same position from your picture. Might even be the same pic. How the heck did Stern make a change to the Pros based on feedback from the LE that didn't even exist yet?

You can hit the Beast shot with the Wolverine in the original position. It works. Is it too tight? Arguably, but sometimes you learn stuff *after* you release a product that you wouldn't have learned with another month playing with it internally. Maybe all of Stern's testers could forehand and backhand that shot like no ones business with the Wolverine where it was, so it was all good.

Your argument really just makes no sense, sorry. There is a lot of stuff people can legitimately give Stern crap for, but I really think you are reaching on this one.

If you want the last laugh take it. But the fact remains that I had to take out an exacto knife to get my wolverine positioned like the one in the pictures they released.

Thats what you get when LE people cry they want the game first.

Has nothing to do with getting the game first. Everything to do with getting all of the features that are left out of the pro.

I want one as soon as they are done…….. but done right ; )

Lots of folks wonder if anything new or big is happening since its taking so long to hear anything. I am hoping the game is right down the lines of what is expected but that this time they spent more time and focus on putting out a solid product. Lets be honest. X-men held back with a little better code would have been border line epic.
They do this right they don't need new life changing technology. Just a cool game with great code.

They had us going on X-men. That thread was getting hit several hundred times a day. There were a ton of people that were committed to that game and the sales were there long before anything was released. Avengers, in my opinion, is just as good a theme as X-men. Chalk it up to Stern keeping quiet or people just tired of the BS, something has put the chokehold on these threads about avengers. Maybe it will pick up after the announcement is made.

STERN MADE DESIGNERS SIGN NDA'S GOMEZ LEARNED BEANS DONT BURN ON THE GRILL

STERN MADE DESIGNERS SIGN NDA'S GOMEZ LEARNED BEANS DONT BURN ON THE GRILL

What?