If it was a game that you didn't already own, would you play it on route? Set on Free Play it might be a fun game to master, but at $1 a game, I find my quarters voting for other games.

I played on 2 different machines on routes with around 30 or so plays total until I lost interest in the game. The machine that I played the most had all sorts of problems (broken Tesseract, flimsy/un-level/warped plastic lanes that caused balls to get stuck, etc.) but both machines felt like they were built with cheaper parts than machines released just a couple of years earlier. When you pull the plunger back and the ball's momentum is absorbed by the flimsy plastics it careens off of, it doesn't lend to an initial positive opinion of the game. This happens on both machines that I've played. Maybe that's by design?

Compared to other Stern games it's just not as fun. The shots are too hard and unforgiving and the rules are too complex (and repetitive) for someone who isn't an expert or doesn't have the machine set on Free Play. I'm not an expert player (or even good), but I've played at least 50+ different games in the last year, from all years and all manufacturers, and Avengers is near the absolute bottom on the list of games I'm looking forward to playing again. Baywatch is a better game than Avengers on all counts!

After the initial "newness" wore off, rarely do I see anyone playing it at the specific bar that I live 5 minutes from that has 8 other new Sterns. If it were a true democratic way of judging the popularity of a game , it would be interesting to see what their (% of total) collections for each machine show?

Haven't played a Pro, liked the LE a lot. If the shots are "too hard" you need to practice to become better. There's no Gem shot or anything.

Avengers is a very good game. It's not what the owners made it out to be when they first setup their machines, but that's normal. As Clay said, "Avengers is a great $4500 machine..." And the same could be said for most new Sterns: XM, ACDC, etc... Just because Stern started charging more doesn't mean they're worth more.

Yes, its only been 2 months for me. Not quite 3. But I never suggested its the best game either. But i will say owning ACDC & Avengers gives me no desire to add more games to the collection in that i can enjoy what i have and be patient as i move forward with my lineup.

That said; we forgot to talk about how well the theme is incorporated into this game with killer call outs. Not just good call outs at the beginning of the game, but throughout as well. The game takes on new levels as you get deeper into it. For example, if you collect an avenger you get start a 2 ball mb "Vs. Mode" with the option to add a third ball. If you complete this, you can continue your multiball on the standard board rules gameplay - now that is cool. To add more icing to the cake, if you start another "Vs Mode", you get another ball with another add a ball option and can now have 5 BALL multiball going on. Not too mention "Vs Modes" have extremely long ball saver times - they are like ubber mini wizard modes.

Another thing we forgot to mention is something Rare Hero said in another thread and i think he put it best. You may not like the way the rules read, but when you get into it, there's much more going on. And each avenger feels like a little quest. Plus, there's more rules on top of that to do in the game. You probably have no idea how the tesserect works, and i think its soooo cool how difficult it is to get the Tesserect super jackpot because when you achieve it, the game flips out and you get a nick fury shout out.."SUPER JACKPOT". Jackpot call outs in this game are great and I for one very welcome stern bringing relevent good jackpot call outs back into their games.

I played Le at Disney Quest.

This is a game you should play before you buy. Mix reviews every day. I'll hoped for more from Gomez but he has a company to run.

My observations.

Poor lighting on upper playfield. Too dim.
Led GI did not change like Acdc or xmen. Lame.

ROLLBACK city on ramps. Spinner in front of ramp reduces energy. Tight shots.
No back hand shots.
Thor targets view completely blocked. Poor design.

Personally I would take pro over LE.

Are you sure you played the LE?
There's lots of GI changing in Avengers. You must not have gotten far.
BW ramp rollbacks suck on a factory game - raise the plastic protectors and it flies! plust it CAN be backhanded. Plus CA CAN be backhanded as well. Not sure why you said no backhadned shots, there's two right there.

Strange...GI changed when I played it.

I was backhanding the Black Widow shot which I need to...tough shot for me for some reason.

Blocked? I could see them all.

LOL, I was gonna say, you sure you even played an Avengers? The game has some tough shots, Iron Man seems to be the toughest for me, lots of GI color changes, I really enjoy how Stern has written this into code (same with Xmen). Hulk toy is super fun, I do get a ball hang up with him once in a while but what game doesnt get a ball hanger once in a while (Balrog-LOTR)

It's definitely one of those games you wouldn't want to own both the pro and the LE. Why someone would ever do that on a title is beyond me
Hehe just messing with you AV8

Game really depends on the out lane post settings. The atleast the right out lane must be set to easy. To avoid drains after coming out of the pops. On mine I set them both easy. Made the game more fun.

So they should just make every new pin like Spiderman where you can score lots of points without even looking at the playfield.Sure, why not ?

Fair enough, as I have previously stated I have not played so that might be the magic sauce I am missing. How long does it take before the game amps up in terms of being interesting (e.g. being able to run a vs multiball and complete it to use that multiball to complete other Avengers?).

I am wondering if it is similar to LotR where I can fun for sure in a 15-20+ minute game, but I am not really feeling any pressure after fully completing 3 modes and getting decent progress on the completion of all 3 multiballs due to still being so far away from actually achieving valinor.

Compare that to IM where you can be in the endgame in seemingly a few minutes, and the pressure is on to not blow it for the umpteenth time .

I am guessing Avengers is somewhere in between, but I have no idea what an "average" Avengers game looks like from a home user perspective...

The call-outs seem like a double edged sword to me (I have seen the Avengers and all the Marvel movies I believe multiple times). Listening to the voices, I am reminded of the knock off Frans Tromers shape changing toy I saw yesterday. Complete with Engrish packaging that looked REALLY close to a legit transformer and even stole some of the other slogans, but apparently the borrowing the name was taking it too far .

Hearing quotes from the movie, but not from the movie actors? How can it get any more like a cheap knock off than that? But the pinball specific quotes? Cool! I wish they had managed to integrate both, in an excellent fashion (as I am sure everybody else wishes...).

You can backhand Iron man shot sometimes too, has to be a good angle the ball comes from though..

He is a French model

Can't speak to the pro...but when my LE hasn't been down - and it's had it's share of problems - its addictive. Took me days to get into too, originally, playing at least 50 games.

Why do people even bother making these hyperbolic definitive statements if they don't have the opportunity to really know the game? These games are designed for owners. Unless you're an owner you're never truly going to know. Your opinion is valid, in as much as you have played the game...but to dismiss a game as garbage, or to say its the best without getting serious one on one time on it without distractions is less than pointless.

I state my opinions routinely - positive and less positive - about games I don't own but I NEVER hyperbolize or trash a game if I've never had it in my basement one on one for a good while. Frankly, I doubt any game under those circumstances is garbage.

Playing on route typically sucks. I know there are glorious exceptions, but route games are rarely delivering definitive gameplay.

So this is more reasonable to state, rather than saying its garbage. Ball getting stuck on hulk is a common issue, but v1.4 has helped this a bit with hulks arms staying up more and he seems more sensitive. Your machine likely had v1.3. Lighting must have been that machine, mine is very bright. Side drains can be adjusted just like any game, I brought mine in and it helps a lot. I think the tesseract is pretty cool,especially when you get the mode going. Wonder how far you got in the game. Did you collect or complete any avengers? Did you start Loki or hulk mb? Do you know the skill shots? I don't mean this in a bad way, but do you know the rules, takes a little while to learn. B/w and IM shots are tough, one reason I like the game.

-If Hulk stops ball a lot-make sure you have downloaded 1.4V-Or raise his arms
-Side Drains-bump off wall in play to avoid side drains-also play better
-Cube does need to go-check out zdoors version 2 cube-sick
-Let me add-stupid ships have to go-Yes they do-someone will make them soon
-Other than that if you are not happy-sell it or trade it
I could play this game all day it is super addicting(:

You make a lot of good points, no pin is garbage for sure. I do not agree that these pins are made for owners. They are made for routes to make money. A good one will make you want to keep putting money in. If it takes 50 games to do that, that is a lot. In the home, different story, but that is not what the machines are for.

I played a pro last night...
First impression was that Hulk is smaller than I thought he would be, but I actually liked his call outs and taunts. The game does seem to have more of a budget feel to it kind of like IM.
2 out of 3 balls that Hulk swatted immediately drained that was frustrating as Hulk was talking Sh!t to me while it was happening.
I will say people were lined up to try it out but the game blew a fuse (tech on site said something shorted in the hulk drop target assembly)

Good point, let me restate. I think that with the deeper rulesets and in game callouts and music deigned for specific modes/tasks I think that it's nigh impossible to get to the heart of game on route. You rarely can hear anything, things may be broken, the rules will seem pointless and random. Lights may be out. I don't see how anyone can do it...Unless they or a friend owns it had distract free play is the norm. I'm typically playing blind when playing an unfamiliar game on route.

You know, I've always wondered why the player can't select his skill level in a game (especially n a multiplayer game with differently skilled players...or on route), or why operators can't make the game cheaper or set on 5 ball or award extra balls when the game, like Avengers, is hard as balls! Maybe there should be a "route rules", more simple objectives to get you deeper in the game faster. The player can elect to play a dumbed down game for his $1 investment.

With software all these things are possible....why aren't they happening?

Even though folks gave this a thumb down I thought this was a fair report. I get folks don't like every table. The thread started with a bashing attitude versus this.This reads as a description of your experience wether its a good impression or bad. Thanks

pinsensitiveside.com round these parts. You're kind of new around here but not too new to know that

Maybe by starting the post "Avengers Pro, Garbage" might have turned some people off....just maybe.
If you would've said something like "I just played Avengers pro, and really didn't like it....anyone else feel this way?"
That might have gone over better.
This is only my opinion though, so I could be dead wrong.

This is something i have wanted stern to do for years , and for me Avengers does the Jackpot callouts better than any other stern , with maybe lotr being on par. I have bought and played nearly all the Sterns since lotr and this is my absolute favourite for sure. Again not every pin is for everyone , but if you like action and deep rules and awesome sound effects , i can't see how you cannot like this one.

Dude (OP), I don't care if you don't like a game. Go WILD! I personally objected to your reference to the game as "garbage". I don't really consider that kind of dismissive hyperbole a fair or valid criticism. Your follow up post states your case much better and isn't objectionable in the least. I mostly disagree with you, and think you have alot to learn about the game, but if you don't like the game I'm not going to try and talk you out of it.

you are certainly in the minority on this one....And you really should play a finely tuned LE Machine which could easily change your mind or not....We all like different machines...no problem there.

I gave you a thumbs up in one of your posts if that counts for anything

I haven't played many games EVER I would consider "garbage" but I have played all the Avengers versions now and truly would not fall in that category. Yes I own an LE but I still though the pro version was quite good as well.

I have or have owned and enjoy most of the games in your collection, I would think I am someone with similar taste as you, surprises me the harsh criticism on this one, but to each their own.

Cool here. Hyperbole and hype are pet peeves of mine in this hobby, pos or neg. I enjoy the banter or I wouldn't comment on these types of things. I happen to love my LE, and its given me a lot of grief. I'm not hyping it just cuz I own it. I'm saying it a fun, challenging game - and visually stunning -because it is.

Change your settings. That is why you can play 1/2 hour on one ball. If you make the game brutally hard with no ball save you aren't playing it that long. Everyone who has played it here locally can attest to that vs playing it somewhere else.

I think he's talking "Pro" if it really matters. The Pro blows so bad it should be a 1 ball game!

I have only played a few games on the LE, but I have played about 40 games on the pro. I currently have the grand champ score on a popular machine on location. I think the game is just ok and I do think the rules are pretty decent. I do respect the rather original layout and the hawkeye shot is slick. What I didn't like, aside from the music, was the problems I had with the game which others have mentioned.
-Balls getting stuck under the Hulk's left arm all the time, usually at the worst moments when something is counting down. I have had the ball search kick out the ball only to have it bounce right back into the arm as many as 3 times in a row.
-Plunging the ball is ridiculous. The ramp is so flimsy that it regularly rattles around and rolls back down. One time it rattled around so long in the vibrating plastic that it came back down and gave me a free lock.
-Slower balls through the Hawkeye shot get hung up in the top right corner on their way around.
-Lots of airballs going over the flippers or the lane guides and draining.
-Poor visibility of the inlanes.
-Balls ejecting from the pops area and out the ironman lane are extremely dangerous and you have to deal with this frequently.
-Balls bounce out of the saucer to start Hulk multiball.
I think that while you may be able to get over these issues, you can do a lot better for the $. If you haven't had some of these problems on your game, I'm happy for you.

Haven't played it enough to evaluate whether is has value or not as a game to play, but this I can say, it looked and felt cheap, more like a toy than a pinball machine, simply not worth any where near what they are charging for them. I certainly hope the LE's are better!

I have a Hulk LE and I like the game but I will agree that it feels overpriced. Based on plastics etc I would have expected TFLE price points. I think stern has hit the ceiling unless they figure out something to elevate the quality . I truly hope they bring the price down about 500 or so or I fear slow sales again.

Was it the machine at game works? I have not played the pro, I own an LE. Someone did mention that the game works machine had issues a while ago. You do need to try an LE. The issues you mention on the pro are not issues on my LE. After reading this I do want to play a pro and see if there is a huge difference in play.

regardless I love Hulk

You don't like avengers, that's fine. Try posting a constructive review of why you didn't like it, not just "durrr umm this pin sucks!#?1" It'll be more helpful to all.

I love mine. Yeah, the Tesserat and a few plastics are cheap, but Stern in their infinite wisdom gave us some easy mods. The Hulk is in your face and busting your balls like Rudy of FH. The Avenger on Avenger modes are clever. My plunger and Hulk work just fine, though mine was one of the later LEs. It's the second most played at my place, behind Tron and I plan on keeping it long term. If you don't like it fine....I don't particularly care of AC/DC or SM and they're both immensly popular in general, which puts me in the minority. But neither are garbage either, nor is any other pin I've ever played. This coming from a proud Twister owner, of course.

Seriously what's with all the hate? We need to support the pinball community instead of beating it down every chance we get.

Nothing wrong with constructive criticism. Not every game deserves heaps of praise. A game has to 'earn' praise.

Problem is that people are VERY invested with pinball right now. In a literal and figurative sense. I don't think people would care as much or as intensely if the games were priced in the low thousands, but the fact that people have collections valued higher than the average american yearly income leads to very protective attitudes.

You don't see the EM guys trading blows and yelling at each other about wether or not Spin Out is worth $400 or $600.

+1

Pinball is no longer a game to play for many. Its become (insert everything else).