What's with the fingerless gloves?

I really think that Stern dropped the ball on the Premium... I mean, come on, at least put colored armor on the thing for that price! Cheap, Cheap, Cheap, and continued fat profit margin. It appears that the price is even a little more than an AC/DC premium model, and that to me makes it hard to swallow.

And this has nothing to do with the game being good or bad, as I like the game, don't love it though.. but it's just more than I'm personally willing to pay for this title/machine as it sits. Period.

And yes, I've already moved on to Metallica anyways... why drop the big money on this when I can have the hottest pin going in a few weeks?

I think when the figures are in, the Premium is going to have poor sales. It looks like a PRO (which those that didn't have the money already bought), it has the features of the LE (which those that had the money already bought), and those that waited it out are considering Metallica. I think this was bad timing. I guess we will see. Now I understand the delay in releasing news on Metallica.

I'm sure Stern will recover from their disappointment that you aren't buying one. Look, you don't get the powder but you get the shaker. Opposite of ACDC. Not quite a wash but close. And until you have a quote from one of the top dealers you don't know what it will cost. Why even post?

Why post? I thought this was a discussion about the Avengers Premium? I suppose if it doesn't fit your opinion, no one should post? Are you that insecure that you have to shoot down even the slightest of criticism?

And your comment about stern recovering from me not buying- guess what, I'm their target market/buyer, and if they aren't trying to sell me a pin, they aren't doing a very good marketing job. I've talked to a lot of my pinball friends, and they feel exactly the same way also.

And I do have a quote from a top dealer, and it's going to cost me at least $6100 plus shipping for the premium.

Why did you even post again? Oh, fanboy defending Stern and Avengers. It's obvious. Show some objectivity and maybe, just maybe you'll gain some credibility.

So LEs were about 7k shipped and this will be 6350. Smart savings. If we can shave $650 off each game thats a start.

Assuming $650 is the price difference, than colored armor costs $650. Different art doesn't cost a thing. Everything else is the same between the LE and the Premium.

Except, as everyone has been saying, a friend bought a Avengers LE recently for $6500 with ~100 plays on it.

The water is getting too muddied. If you want to make a super elite version and a dumbed down version far apart in price, that's one thing. But to bring a product to market at nearly the same price as the superior product in used perfect condition...? Then you have to ask "How much is a box worth?"

Let's wait til they hit distributors and we get some real world pricing. I bet Avengers Premium at $6350 is going to be a tough sell.

This makes no sense. Thats an opened used machine not new from the distro. Same argument says the Premium will be even cheaper bought off a friend . Lets keep it apples to apples.

I do agree its going to be a tough sell. Not sure if its just Avengers or if we actually found the sore spot and buyers are pushing back. I bet 5800 sells premiums all day long. After that its a tough sell.

Huh? Of course it doesn't make sense. That's the point!!! Hello?

Of course it's an opened machine of superior quality versus an inferior unopened machine. And the prices are nearly identical. That's the ENTIRE focus point of the pricing discussion. LOL What are we going to compare unopened LEs to unopened Premiums? Yeah, that's a smart discussion!

Really don't think Avengers Premium will sell well. Looks like a pro. If I wanted Avengers would go for a cheap pro or the LE not an expensive premium with added features.

I think Stern would have been better off selling HULK and another Character (Black Widow or Captain America) as LE games. Then sell the BLUE LE as the Premium.

They could have offered LE Bling (like powder coated armor, shaker motor, Color DMD, etc) at an additional cost.

I love the Hulk LE concept. I just wish Stern would have followed through and offered another character.

Marcus

Disappointed in the premium. I thought it would have the powder coated armor like AC/DC premium. Was considering eventually getting a premium. If its 6k, would likely wait for a HUO further off in the future - looks like some HUO Hulks have gone low 6s (I assume the Blues could be had for slightly less). Would do that before the premium.

I agree. They should have done either Captain America, Thor, or Loki as the other LE since they already have a Ironman machine and Black Widow/Hawkeye are not as big as characters. Then the blue edition could have been the premium.

I don't think the premium will sell at all as long as there are Blue LE's available, however it's not like it cost Stern a lot to create it. All they did was take a Pro cabinet and LE PF. Everything else is already there to use from the Pro/LE except for the new translite, which I doubt cost that much to make.

Exactly!

So, with so little effort going into the premium, do they really expect a ton of sales???!

I think the LE was already overpriced for what it is....so, if the Premium is priced HIGHER than AC/DC Premium, which IMO, is more bang for the buck (color changing inserts yo, lower playfield, etc) ...I dunno, I don't see many enthusiast types picking the Avengers Premium over an AC/DC. That being said, the themes appeal to different demographics - families & comic book collector types might buy Premiums and we'd never hear about it in our little circle. We should keep in mind that this group isn't the be-all-end-all in terms of pinball buyers. Avatar STILL being in production is proof of that.

Personally, I'd consider Avengers Premium if the price was closer to what TFLE & Tron LE were (between 5k-5.5k) ...but that's just me.

Agreed. They really did drop the ball on this one. This doesn't look like much more than a pro. Can't believe that they cheaped out on the trim. Not only is it not color, but no button protectors either?! Unreal.

AC/DC Premium set the standard for what a Premium model should be. This Avengers Premium doesn't live up to that standard.

Can't help but wonder if Stern did this intentionally (other than to save costs) thinking that the AC/DC Premium was so good that if they maintain that model it will eat in to the LE sales?

When I got ACDC premium I thought, "wow this game is awesome. It's going to be a long time before stern can outdo themselves." Then avengers LE was released and I was proven wrong. The end.

Yea it sucks about the trim but if you want a game as awesome as ACDC, then get an avengers premium. If you want something more awesomer' get one of the few remaining LEs. Otherwise, preorder on speculation of a game unreleased. What's great about pinball right now is there are many choices and we have many options. Buy proven awesomeness? Or speculated awesomeness? The choice is yours!

To add to that:
ACDC = one of the greatest point-based pins of all time
Avengers = one of the greatest quest-based pins of all time.

AC/DC LEs are long gone so there's nothing to eat into....AC/DC Premium is a perfect example of how a great game can make them a ton of dough w/ the Premium model. LEs gone quick to hardcore collectors/speculators...Premiums keep rolling off the line cuz the game is so good, everyone wants it.

I think Avengers LE just landed at a strange time ...maybe at it was a burn-out period - people were just sick of pre-ordering without playing....or sick of rising prices...or - just having too much fun with their current collections to bother with another new game....or too close to Xmas, funds tapped out for big purchases.....or just playing the "wait n see" game due to X-Men & TF's physical & code woes. Lotta factors.

The LE Playfield is what matters with Avengers.... getting the LED lights, cross over ramp, the whole game as intended, that stuff matters more than powder coat.

True - but it can't be helped to compare it to the other in production Premium - AC/DC which DOES have powdercoated metal & protector-style rails. If it's true that the shaker is built in, that's a decent trade-off, I guess...but still - at these prices...c'mon, paint the damn metal.

Their doing a great job, you just have poor taste. And talk out of your butt. $6,100 is LESS than ACDC Premium and it has a shaker...and it's been practically a year since ACDC and prices are, if you haven't noticed, higher all over.

Hey man, you and I are both very opinionated people. My opinions are just better than yours.

TheFamilyArcade

Relax, you already have one... no need for the crusade.

Avengers a fun machine but its got a few annoying quirks & high price tag making it hard for most folks to justify. I think Stern will sell a lot of Pro's however if that makes you feel any better.

See, this is a reasonable assessment. But to say AVLE is failing and no good when the overwhelming majority of owners absolutely love it - some as much as ACDC...SHOCK - is just disingenuous.

...and you have poor grammar. **cough cough** They're **cough cough**

No, it's not.

Omg! $50 bucks at pinball life for the side armor and $250 for some Powdercoat, and your around $6,500 shipped which is what ACDC is now. AND you'll have a shaker motor!

Hell, let b_r set you up with his guy for the $125 Powdercoat. What a bunch of Nancies. I get it, you're tired of the high prices. Get used to it.

People on pinside quoting $6,500 for ACDC shipped this run.i haven't checked, because mine arrives this week and I didn't pay for it.

They paid too much.

Avengers is just flat out a turd. Hence the lack of BUZZ on the net about it. Its only BUZZ is the machine falling apart. If fA has it its the best thing since TF. NUT SWINGING! ACDC PREM CAN BE HAD FOR 6g's shipped if you know the right people.

i thought avengers pro was possibly the most boring pin i've ever played but anyway I thought for a premium it would have been cool to run one with comic artwork rather then the movie's actors. Never been a big fan of the photo style artwork.

LOL why would they do that for the Premium and not the LE? It's a movie license, hence movie product art assets....but no movie audio....so ...yeah, why DID they go with the movie license? LOL

Well, that's what I told them on that thread, and I was "corrected". So whatever. Anyone want to CONFIRM what this run of ACDC premiums cost shipped? Anyone want to confirm Avengers Premium shipped? And anyone really KNOW that the premium won't have side armor and/or color? All the guy playing at that show was a combination of the current pro and LE with a new Translite. Does that guarantee what comes off the production line?

just saying i think using the comic style art is better for a long term pin in my opinion.

I figure this is a troll post but ill bite anyway.

I'm not here to sell you guys on a premium and I don't want to sound like I'm in defensive mode for the game either. I could care less; I have one and i don't plan on it leaving for quite sometime. But I would like to clear some things up about the game. Now, I haven't played the pro, so I can't speak about its game play. But the LE has a player controlled Crossover ramp which plays a critical role in strategy and skill. It has a 5ball and 6ball mb that can be played in hulk mb (most common), vs modes (rare at my current skill level with the game), and with the standard board rules (very rare). How cool is it to play a multiball (5 or 6 even) with the boards standard rules in play. Tesserect super JP anyone? Not to mention, the code is complete!

It's not one of those games like TF, tron or ACDC where you can pick it up and get the shots down in just a few games. The more you play avengers, the deeper it gets, and the more opened up the game feels.

Anyway, my point is this, the game has all the pieces in place of a great. It's just not popular with a lot because its not a pop culture layout. And to say its a turd because it falls apart is absurd. Get your facts in place. That's like saying ACDC is a turd cause the cannon doesn't work, or the the mini pf is foggy, or because the of wears easy.

So if you want to convince yourselves that its a turd to justify your preorders on Metallica or Star Trek or woz or hobbit or just don't want a reason not to buy it, that's none of my business. Just don't twist stories or speculate on a game that has high quality attributes. That's like me saying mm is a turd cause I don't get it - which obviously it's not a turd.

I played the LE at TPF and thought it was fun. I was left with the impression that there isn't enough there to justify the cost, but thats just my opinion. If I liked the license better, I might be able to talk myself into it. I'll drop some quarters in it if I see it on route.

What is a pop culture layout?

I don't honestly know lol
I think what I meant is a lot of the newer pinball players seem to be attracted towards games with fast ball times and/or fan like layouts. Games that are deep and have longer'ish ball times don't appear to appeal to today's mainstream pinheads. I'm probably wrong; but that's what everyone seems to want....fast fast fast...speed speed speed. Like beavis turning into cornholio!! am I making sense yet?

Not a troll post at all I think it's a turd. My thoughts on the premium where it's a waste there are 50+ blue still out there

SKB nailed it. Frankly Pinside seems less about actual pinball than a whole lot of other BS. I've said it about TF and ill say it again about Avengers LE....if you don't like them you don't like pinball. Either that or you don't know jack cagadas about it.

It's all about hype. Pinside has Tremendous influence. Where is the average person gonna play Avengers right now without knowing someone? ACDC won out in the end because so many people bragged about it.

Same happened with Tron LE and SM.

MANNHEIM
...but they got a good new drug.
Stick to the fundamentals, that's
how IBM and Hilton were built...good
things sometimes take time.

+1

No one really cares. You have such a history of negativity that most members are becoming immune to it. Or...they should be.

You're the same guy that threatened me and said they would void my Avengers warranty. Well...they didn't. Why? Cause I'm a loyal Stern buyer whereas you are just a Bully on a website.

I must be wierd as I liked the pro better than the LE when playing it at TPF. If the prem or LE was closer in price to the pro I'd buy one but as it sits now I'm ordering a pro next week and then adding LEDs and the pop bumper caps to it.

I think this post is right on the money. Based upon the (lack of) Avengers buzz, how many of these are they likely to sell. The only thing you can expect buying an Avengers at this point is you could easily have a host of issues. If I wanted a project game, I likely would not be in the market for a $6K to $7K one

_{Post edited by TheFamilyArcade : Forgot which thread I was in!}

Vette, I am sure MANY love the pro. It's just that the trash talk is always more vocal. The loudest trashers typically have the biggest chips on their shoulders so they insist that "everybody" thinks as they do. Which is delusional as well as BS. But if it makes them feel better, who really gives a ratz azz?

Guys like us can be positive and be cheerleaders. Cheerleading for pinball, what a crime! And we do it right...not slobbering on about the "best ever!!!". Just straight pinball talk, which some people can't seem to handle.

A lot of that is obviously because XMEN sank Stern for the time being. There have been dozens and dozens of pinsiders that have explicitly said they are not buying any Sterns until XMen is fixed.
I don't have a good feel from reading the XMen threads whether that has changed or not since the code update last week.

The markets also saturated. Look at how many people on Pinside have bought new in boxes - many more than 2 or 3 - in the last year alone. No way this can persist. People need to reassure themselves their not missing out on anything. Especially if they haven't even spent time with the game.

The last 2 years prepared a perfect storm for ACDC to triumph and for Avengers to enter like a lamb. But Avengers can roar like a lion baby. If people want to pretend they get it while playing their same old fan layouts and trendy fast (and shallow) games (not talking ACDC here) they're just missing out on pure pinball candy with Avengers LE. Pauvre bebes!

After XMLE code update last week, Sterns are back on the menu for me. WTB AVLE.

-Wes

This is maybe the only correct point you've made in all these posts. I've been saying this for the past 2 years, that it's coming.

Basements are only so big, and the pins receive next to zero wear and tear in homes. Stern/JJP/etc/etc/etc/etc are all going to need to solve the problem of market saturation if they want to stay in business for the next five years.

Either games are going to need to hit the streets in larger quantities (which has happened every so slightly with ACDC) or there will be huge trouble with new games sales down the road, with all these emerging pinball companies trying to sell to a collector market edging towards saturation...