Are you sure it's on test at Gameworks?

Let's articulate this another way. People in this hobby are passionate and get excited about new releases. Competitors have entered the market like JJP that are showing videos of features, Skitb showing videos while building, and JPOP streaming live video during the development process. Like it or not times they are a changing. $7K for a game - ask for money up front or pre-order before they sell out - you need to share more for that wallet share trust.

While we may not have all articulated well, suggesting everyone relax is not a logical response. No one is personally attacking Gary, but rather excited for Stern and expressing utter dismay why they are not proud enough of their product to share info of their product especially seeing how some are boxed up already. I really want Stern to succeed but instead of antagonizing collectors with facebook posts that taunt, develop a real relationship using the medium. Yeah, it won't all be complimentary but you'll gain that trust from customers who want you to succeed and support you.

Times they are a changing.

Without trashing, this game may still be a blast. My disappointment is knowing what Gomez brings to the table in experience and specifically toy design. If you look at AC/DC the features in there is what I would expect from a former toy designer. No budget restrictions just go design. If same principle was applied for such an awesome theme as Avengers, why just one really cool Hulk bash toy and flip up ramp?

It's equally odd that the guy who was on the design team for Tron the video game was not behind Tron the pinball machine. But I love what Borg did with Tron!!

My concern is Gomez definitely has the talent, no question, but I think Gary may have him running to thin right now. VP, TF light, and still be a pinball game designer as well. George is talented but I think you need to decide what job is best for his talents and let him excel. Like I said this game could turn out great, but at view I know George has so much more to give to this hobby (Pin 2000K as example). Steve went out of his way to say "nothing was held back" that he wanted in AC/DC. No word from Gomez yet on this one. But if you're a VP sitting in board room discussions on profitability - that may impact how you design. Which, why separation of responsibilities and healthy internal tension (spend for great product versus budget profitability) is great for large and small companies.

Again, hoping game is terrific. Just observation.

Gweem did an excellent job of summing up opinions on what we both experienced this afternoon. Keep in mind I'm a comic fan and was pumped waiting for this Avengers pin as I loved the movie. Here's a few additional observations:

- Nearly every game we played a ball got stuck under Hulk's arm. This is no exaggeration. Gweem had two stuck at the same time during multiball. The good news is after 10 seconds the software found it and Hulk shook them free. But it did damper the enjoyment.

- The saucer is going to get worn out. Cliffy get on it my friend. The bummer was when Gweem finally hit the black widow ramp to start Hulk Multiball the diverter worked dropping ball into saucer and wait for it....it rolled right out and did not register the multi-ball. That was a big bummer.

- Black widow ramp was ridiculously hard. Entrance is tough to nail direct and when you do I think the ramp angle slows the ball down so much it loses it's force and rolls back down. There were so many shots not in the video that we hit the ramp made it halfway near hulk and ran out of steam and back down again. It plays right now like a sucker shot which I don't think was the intention. Also, to the right of the ramp is just blue foam??? Odd.

- Hulk toy is cool and well made. Very well sculpted. They learned from Xmen toys for sure. A few punches hit the balls which was cool but little more interaction would have been cool.

- Sound package is not complete at all on this one at location. Sorry, it was terrible. "Iron Man", "Captain America" - yup those are all the voices from Cap and Iron Man we heard. Hulk sounded ok - yeah he growls but he sounded ok and taunted after your game to play again. The good news - I fully expect there will be a power pack on this one - par with the course for Stern unfortunately. Unless the location pin was meant to be this sparse, the sound package was hugely disappointing. This as we know can be fixed with update so I know vid - relax. Gweem and I agree though big miss on not using movie quotes. Big bummer for me.

- Dots also did not impress, unless this was comic theme versus movie. But alas, it's based off the movie. I'd rather spiderman movie clips than these. Again, good news code update can fix.

- Tesserex was surprisingly very nimble and smooth. It looks like a die, but in gameplay wasn't bad at all.

- Mode starts seemed not existent. I didn't get it.

- This is a case where the LE likely will be better. The missing crossover arrow ramp will help flow is my guess and I hope the outlane tightness was just this machine.

The gameplay is definitely different feel to it. Would I put money in and play again? Yes and I will go back. Is it a game I'm kicking myself for not buying to add to my collection especially being a comic book fan? Nope. I don't want to discourage anyone who bought an LE, but right now I'm very happy I waited and pulled back my deposit. The code updates may improve this game a lot but I'm not a fan of the animations, non movie voices/quotes and the gameplay was meh. I'm curious how they will rectify the tech issues we experienced.

I was playing in one of the video shots and I will admit I suck. But damn I know I hit a few square on.

Believe me my friend, I cheer for Stern to succeed and own a bunch. I love Avengers movie. Just my honest feedback from the version/game I just played today. With updates it can be improved. But hey, in the end we all like something different - it's cool. Hope you love it.

Really hard to tell. I hope that is the case. I'm worried the angle of the ramp slows momentum but I trust Gomez and engineers did their calculations right. It could be the spinner.

Agreed. Why did the community have to shoot a gameplay video first over the company trying to sell them? Marketing is simple when you listen to your customers. Kudos to George for putting a video up himself. Interesting it came from George and not Stern site. Shows some over there understand.

Bingo! This is the biggest flaw of the game. Why would you wait until the movie has been released on DVD and NOT use any movie clips or sound bytes from the movie??? My biggest disappointment. I love IM and SM for this reason. It's also why BDK may eventually go on the for sale list. Voice actors in BDK were ok but til this day I struggle to connect fully with the immersion in the game.

Keeping fingers crossed tweaks are all that are needed. We nailed those shots dead on, but it really could have been the spinner slowing the shot down. Time will tell. Hopeful though.

We may never know unless Stern shares, what they could or couldn't do. As someone else mentioned in this thread I'm too lazy to properly quote: TRON, IM and SM all had movie sounds and clips (Disney included in that list). Batman which was not a Disney movie but a Gomez design, did not have movie sounds but voice actors. Could be Gomez designer preference? Could be license costs? Love to know because SM was a huge movie too and sounds were there.

Hell, the agent who got killed off in the Avengers could have been the call out announcer and use movie excerpts from the rest. Again, who knows real reason.

You are correct. Rarehero I probably communicated poorly. Batman had a few select movie clips but used voice actors for speech. They did say a few quotes from the movie but I was commenting more on the use of voice actors.

I agree. Although the joker voice actor grew on me as not bad. Still it's the full immersion into the game that is somewhat lacking but that's the tradeoff. BDK is still a very fun game.

I sincerely hope not for you and I as we are supporters and customers.

What would be killer is to be invited to Stern to play the LE and experience a dialed in machine. We are local and have tried to be objective. Merry Xmas!

That's the LE video that was posted by GG previously. Nice to see the BW ramp working smooth there.

EV nice write-up and points on the visibility of inserts. Glad you and Korn reported back on the balls getting stuck nearly every game. Gweem and I played it before the fixes by Gomez at GW and we had to video it to share because we didn't think people would believe us. Hope it still gets corrected.

My mistake EV. Odd that Korn was there before you and reported ball hang ups though. Either way, hope it's addressed.

So I just played the Avengers Hulk LE and it was a different experience - for the better. First the code was updated from the one I played at GW. Music and different voice call outs made for a better experience. Shots are much easier to hit. Still challenging but not technically obstructive like the one I played at GW. BW ramp is possible now and the Hawkeye left orbit as well. Actually, on the LE you could actually get some flow going.

Hulk still had some ball sticking issues but not as frequently as at GW. The code does come on more quickly to move Hulks arms around but there is still a slight flaw there. As EV mentioned the inability to see the O in LOKI in the left inlane by the flipper does impact gameplay. I could never spell Loki to start the lock and thought the switch wasn't registering ball roll overs when in fact it was because I couldn't see the O was lit already and I had to change lights on the inlane/outlane with my flipper button. That also should be altered somehow as I'm 5"11 and from a players perspective you just can't see it. I went pretty deep into my last game putting up 64M and will say code for modes still needs work. But, now I get the layout GG went for and must say, it is a unique playfield design. I'm liking it when the shots work like they did on the LE. He delivered something different. Modes need work and still don't like departure from movie with no clips/sounds but turning into a nice little game.