I don't mean to, its just I was really looking forward to picking this up. I sold my Woz preorder to get this so I am just dissapointed thats all. This is just regarding the pro. I have said several good things about the LE but I guess you have not read up my post on that.

Ok, sorry. Where did you get to play the LE version?
I think the arrow ramp on the LE makes a big difference. I find that the games like LOTR that have multiple paths for certain shots can be more entertaining.
Also, it looks from the videos that Avengers is going to be a fast game with the exception of the Hulk area. The Black Widow ramp is essentially acting as a short orbit when the ball comes back to the left flipper rather than going to the Hulk Vuk. Also the Capt. America shot looks as if it is an internal orbit from the Hawkeye main orbit.

When did you play it? Sounds like they fixed the Black Widow ramp.

Just a couple of days ago. It is a tight shot, but I had the power to hit it with no problems. Maybe they made some adjustments before I played.

When I played it, the flippers seemed strong enough. It's just that the ball was somehow losing momentum right when it hit the ramp. Did you watch my video?

I'm talking to players now. Not owners. I think if youre an owner of TFLE now you want to be. And for good reason. TFLE is an awesome players machine. If you bought and sold good for you if that's how you want it. I bought Knowing all the complaints...but I knew I liked playing it, and i make up my own mind...and owning is even better.

Mine plays fine and is fun as hell. Awesome sound and lightshow. Hard game! And the adrenelin really flows when you "almost" beat Optimus as an Autobot. The person I bought mine from dialled it in. Why should I complain?

Seriously? Did you see how difficult it is to make those 35 shots, with each one on a timer, requiring some advance setup? It is crazy crazy difficult to get that to work, and in a competitive environment no one will try because each shot risks the entire bank.

I think it's a terrific idea to make something huge that is very hard to get. Do you object to the billion in 12 shots on Attack From Mars?

No but once i know of said exploit i dont do anything other than try to achieve it.

FYI, no player achieved even a 50-million hurryup in the PAPA A Division, with the highest score under 200 million. Tight tilt, difficult outlanes, lightning flippers. With regular flippers it still would have been fine, and we plan to use it at mostly "factory" settings for Pinburgh 2013.

The billion hurry-up does not break the game, no more than the possibility of a 100-million-plus cannot shot breaks AC/DC.

Then you are not playing either game with a target of getting a good score without huge risk, and that's what makes these games exciting and fun.

I have the Hulk LE version right beside ECLEWOZ for a true test of green muscle right now. Time will tell! I have no agenda just want great pins for my customers! Freddie Kruger was the best earner last year.
Both pins are at
Cinema City Norton
206 Coeburn Ave
Norton Va 24273
Along with Star Wars pin 2000, Spiderman thanks to Chad H and Hooked, Batman The Dark Knight thanks to Drew the GPS man for those deals on the other forum.

That's fine that you like it. I have no problem with that....but you said the complaints about TF say something about the people, not the game...therefore inferring there's something wrong about the people who don't like it. I'm just saying, there are legitimate issues with the game and there's nothing wrong with the pinball people who don't like it. If you can see past the problems and find enjoyment, that's fantastic.

Agree 100%, have a great pin line up, still play TF-LE the most and is one of the most challenging pins out there. Love it!!

Agree + 1 , it's a great game! I have a fairly diverse selection of pins , and it gets played a lot.

Got a chance to stop by Gameworks and play a few games of Avengers Pro. Wound up meeting a couple of Pinsiders TheKorn and Shadow (Vince and Steve), and they set me up with a bunch of free credits, so I got to play for over 2 hours without spending a dime. Thanks, guys!

Anyways, on to my thoughts. Of course, IMHO, YMMV, yada, yada, yada...

Short Version:
The Good -Beautiful looking, interesting layout, Hulk is pretty damn cool.
The Bad - Clunky shots, flimsy ramps, at least 9 inserts in 5 different places are completely blocked from view.
The Verdict - Gomez has definitely lost "it". Too much on his plate?

Long Version below

That's because anyone that doesn't like the game is an idiot

Long Version:

First off, the Avengers Pro is a very good-looking game. I really like the Pro cabinet the best, and it looks quite striking. The backglass is quite cool as well. The playfield seems well laid out, but start playing, and it all starts to unravel.

My first and major complaint about Avengers is simple visibility. If you've been reading these threads, then you already know about the Captain America inserts being different on the Pro and LE. However, those are minor compared to the train wreck of several others.

The most egregious of which are the L-O-K-I rollover lanes. Lighting them is what is neccesary to lite the locks. When standing in front of the machine in a standard, relaxed position, you literally cannot see either the "O" or the "K" in the inlanes. The plastic ramp forms completely block your vision of the inserts. During gameplay, you must literally lean forward a goot foot or so while the ball rolls down the ramp return to decide where to change the insert lamps. VERY distracting.

Also, both Cap and Hawkeye have an insert arrow above their 4 logos, and you can barely see either of them. Finally, I played over a dozen games, and it wasn't until the last few that I eventually noticed that there are *6* inserts over the top rollover lanes, not 3. It's like no one cared you could actually see half of the stuff. WTF?

Long Version continued;

Now, some of the shots are cool (orbits, drops, Hulk), but that Black Widow ramp is a bitch. Whatever George supposedly fixed last night on it didn't last long. On a positive note, Hulk was very responsive, and any ball that hung up on his arms was thrown around almost instantly. He's definitely the highlight of the game.

The code is also quite meh. Starting a hero's mode is indeed the obvious four shots. But once their mode has begun? Why, you get to hit that exact same shot a bunch more times. The only unique hero is Hulk.

Finally, I'll end with another knock on the voices. I totally agree with Brian that if you've got a game based on the #3 movie of all time, you've got to have real movie quotes in there.

All in all, I'm quite disappointed, and very, very glad I've got an X-Men waiting at home to open.

Thanks for listening,
EV

thanks for your input .

Some more thoughts now that I've slept on it....

The shots from left to right;

Thor targets - nice to see decals on these stand-ups, but there's only a tiny wedge on the "hammer" playfield inserts that lites up, making it difficult to tell when lit.

LH outer Orbit (Hawkeye) - Here's the best shot in the game, as it's butter smooth. Reminds me of ToM LH orbit.

LH inner orbit (Captain America) - not a bad shot either. Leads directly to the pops.

Hulk area - as it looks, this is where you spend a lot of time, and I did like it. Hulk seemed very sensitive, and threw any ball around him all over the place, and quite quickly.

Tesseract spinner - a fun shot that guards the RH exit of the Hulk drops. Unfortunately, once I spelled out "Cosmic" by spinning it, the game didn't indicate how to collect.

Black Widow ramp - as previously stated, she's a bitch. Many shots either rattle the entrance or only make it halfway across the bridge.

RH orbit (Ironman) - tight but smooth. This exits out Cap's orbit.

SHIELD agents - very much like Skids & Mudflap on Transformers.

I still can't get over the poor visibility on this game. Anyone who is buying one is going to want to remove the "Shrinky-Dinks" to improve line-of-sight, as the HeliCarrier on the left is what partially blocks the Hawkeye inserts, and, the Quinjet up in the RH corner is what blocks half of the rollover lane inserts. Also, I think that really bright LEDs up here are a must.

Later,
EV

I wasn't very clear. My main problem is with people that bag on games before/without playing them. Or playing them a dozen times on location - god knows under what conditions - and saying they suck. Clearly TF had issues out of the box, but mine plays great and all I need to think about is the gameplay, which I enjoy immensely. The roadblock does need to be fixed....but I don't necessarily think Optimus should be made easier. That MB is a total rush...and is a killer. Very frustrating to drain when you're so close to beating him.

Well, yeah. I just didn't want to ruffle any feathers. I'm not like that

Ah,hah! Figured out how to post crappy cellphone pics!

Here's what I'm talking about...

LH inlane from player perspective;

Ah,hah! Figured out how to post crappy cellphone pics!

Here's what I'm talking about...

LH inlane from player perspective;

2012-12-20_14-33-35_50.jpg

LH inlane when you lean waaaay forward;

2012-12-20_14-34-11_973.jpg

Likewise on the RH side;

2012-12-20_14-33-28_461.jpg 2012-12-20_14-34-04_636.jpg

In this shot you see the top rollover lanes (apologies for the bad backglass reflection). From the player's aspect, you can see the Hulk and IronMan inserts over the LH lane, and Cap's shield over the middle lane;

2012-12-20_14-34-44_143.jpg

Here is a closer look. There's actually a Thor hammer above Cap on the center lane, and then there's a Black Widow and a Hawkeye arrow over the right lane. You have to do some major contortion to see these during gameplay.

2012-12-20_14-34-52_762.jpg

Finally, there's a triangle insert that says "Hawkeye" waaaaay under the HeliCarrier/diverter. Can you see it? This shot it taken witht the camera down really low.

2012-12-20_14-35-12_648.jpg

Sound plays a big part of the pin experience for me. Having the real actors voices whether it's from the direct source or custom makes the game - LOTR, FGY, Shrek, SM, TRON for example. POTC was pretty close though. I kind of expect it.

EV >>> thanks for the very nice write up and sharing your opinions!!!

Seriously, I value the thoughts on your experience.

+1. Even had photo evidence to back it up.

Exactly the issues that shape my comments here. And sorry Derek, but your critical evaluation of pinball quality is, well, humorous but quite lacking.

I was kind of wondering how long it'd take you to burn off 45 credits! Nice to meet you as well.

Short Version:
The Good -Beautiful looking, interesting layout, Hulk is pretty damn cool.
The Bad - Clunky shots, flimsy ramps, at least 9 inserts in 5 different places are completely blocked from view.

More or less agree, but don't agree on the ramps feeling flimsy. They felt fine (though tight) to me; had no problems making/looping pretty much any of them at will if I put my mind to it. Every once in a while would have a trough error that would lead to fun with bonus and/or multiple balls being fed into the shooter lane. That kind of sucked; not sure why that persists on happening with new sterns; seems like a QC issue.

Have to laugh at the "new stern math" going on in Avengers. Jackpot! 100K. Double jackpot! 500K. Ummmm, whut?

Oh, here's a picture of a Hulk ball trap. This happens *ALL THE TIME*, at least once per game when I'm playing, sometimes several. Ball search frees it, but it's annoying, to say the least.

But despite its flaws and "ain't no rules yet" software, have to say I enjoy playing Avengers a lot more than X-men. Just can't stand X-men's layout. Yuck. (IMnsHO)

20121220_130247-1[1].jpg

These are the things that fill my mouth with stomach contents..

They musta tested the shit outta this game at the factory, before shipping....

Good job Gary and freinds

Way to up your game boys !

EV nice write-up and points on the visibility of inserts. Glad you and Korn reported back on the balls getting stuck nearly every game. Gweem and I played it before the fixes by Gomez at GW and we had to video it to share because we didn't think people would believe us. Hope it still gets corrected.

We can only hope, but yet again Crickets from Stern...

Admit you guys dropped the ball.....

tell us your gonna straighten out this mess with a guarentee of a dialed in game...

If i was Gomez, and my name was on this game, my ass would be there inspecting every freakin LE that went out the door right now and teaching the employees how to make them right, hawking over them untill i was sure they were doing their job and getting these issues solved...before games were shipped...

Point is games with these mechanical issues are DEFECTIVE !

At what point could that ever be considered OK ?

Hell i might crack 20K karma points off this game

Steaming pile of reconstituted crap....

Regurgitated spinner from Williams TOTAN, moving arms regurgitated from multiple games, generic photoshopped playfield art, generic case with equally generic sideart....

For $7K plus, it's not unreasonable to expect some bit of innovation or variety. Welcome to cookie-cutter pinball.

This is from firsthand experience playing it at Schaumburg. I easily was able to walk away after 5 games. The amount of inserts obscured is more than annoying, particularly when learning the ruleset and where to make shots. Just not a good game, in my opinion, and if they don't fix the stupid Hulk arms getting the ball stuck it will last on location a week before the stupid toy breaks.

Actually, I had no problems whatsoever with Hulk. Anytime a ball touched him or that flap he would go into "spazz" mode and knock the ball all over the place. I don't think a ball sat in contact with him for any longer than one second. Never went into ball search mode.

Later,
EV

P.S. I'm not that bad a player, Korn. I left 8 credits on Avengers and 18 on X-Men...

I think on the pro with LED's the obstructed inserts wont be that big of a deal. I may be wrong but optimistic until i play this thing.

That's very good to know. I think they made HULK more lively to address that issue.

Good insight, the ramps did seem very solid (and fast) on the videos.

Thats my thought. If they raise his arm for clearance he cant smack the ball around.

Gerry, lets play this darn thing.

If it is not intentionally designed to smack the ball around then I have a feeling that the arm can be raised to be in a higher down position so that the ball is not getting stuck.
I will wait to get mine to decide what is best.

I just thought of another remedy for the ball hang-ups on Hulk. If he is indeed designed to hit the balls side-to-side then they could probably program him to flail around every couple seconds when no switches are activated. It would be sort of a pre ball-search that actually would have a gameplay purpose by making Hulk more interactive with the balls. In effect it would be the equivalent to a magnet capturing a ball and then flinging it.

I was thinking this same thing, although it would put a lot of extra wear and tear on the assembly.

I say you take a blow torch to his arms, Shrink them so the ball rolls under the arm. Presto, instant fix.

After looking at mine which arrived a couple hours ago, I am convinced that the arms are intentionally blocking the Hulk Smash target as part of the game. The best way to remedy the hang-ups would be with software to shake the arms of the figure as I said above IMO.
I believe that the arms are just activated with a coil so that is not a big deal to activate fairly often. Just think of how much work a pop bumper coil gets for example.