(Topic ID: 75783)

Avengers Hulk Saucer discussion (Rlerman, Rotordave, Centerflank, & anyone else)

By Rarehero

10 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 74 posts
  • 24 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by sandersj
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

hulk_washer.jpg
happyka.jpg

There are 74 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 10 years ago

We were talking about this in a FS thread - prob makes sense to give it it's own thread.

A bunch of Pinsiders were complaining about the Hulk saucer doing a back-and-forth ping pong game with the H target...I've never seen this happen on my game, so we've been debating: Is this a code issue or physical issue?

So - here's a video to show you what the Hulk saucer does on my machine.

Works great...so - any thoughts on why mine works perfectly but others have the ball bounced back by the H target? Only thing I can think of offhand is pitch. Mine's set a bit steeper than "bubble in the middle"...half the bubble is thru the upper line.

#2 10 years ago

If you go to 1:08, you can see that's a scenario where the H target pops up really fast, but it never blocks the ball or sends it back to the saucer.

#3 10 years ago

I finally did the "washer fix" to my drop banks, which had started in properly resetting as of late. Since I did that fix, I've had the saucer/H phenomenon occur for the first time since December 2012 when I got the machine. Weird. But that's Avengers for ya.

#4 10 years ago

I have the Avengers ( Blue ) LE .

The only time mine will do it is if you hit the HULK drop targets and it drops into the saucer AT THE SAME TIME that the inserts light for Hulk multiball .

It won't start multiball as it somehow knows that it's only just fell in in there off the drops .

As it tries to kick it out the H target resets and knocks it back in the hole .

It will keep trying for a while to get it out then eventually comes up with a message on the screen . Something like : "Operator Alert - Device malfunction" or something like that .

The very annoying part is that after that message it will go through a ball search in which it will fire the ball past the H target first time , every time .

Definitely a tweak of the code will fix it , but doesn't explain why yours doesn't do it Rarehero .

The code on Avengers is pretty polished as-is but I would like to see this issue worked around . Also would like to see some combo awards added , more info in the Instant Info section during a game .

#5 10 years ago

Try adjusting the angle of the kicker mechanism if it is not working like the video.

#6 10 years ago

Just closely watched your video again Rarehero .

When your saucer is kicking the ball out is it kicking it towards the very left hand side of the H target ?

( or is it just the way it looks in the video )

#7 10 years ago
Quoted from MIL:

I have the Avengers ( Blue ) LE .
The only time mine will do it is if you hit the HULK drop targets and it drops into the saucer AT THE SAME TIME that the inserts light for Hulk multiball .
It won't start multiball as it somehow knows that it's only just fell in in there off the drops .
As it tries to kick it out the H target resets and knocks it back in the hole .
It will keep trying for a while to get it out then eventually comes up with a message on the screen . Something like : "Operator Alert - Device malfunction" or something like that .
The very annoying part is that after that message it will go through a ball search in which it will fire the ball past the H target first time , every time .
Definitely a tweak of the code will fix it , but doesn't explain why yours doesn't do it Rarehero .

If you watch the later part of the video, that's where the game resets the target up very quickly after dropping (you have to hit the specific lit targets in order for them to stay down) - but even then my ball gets over it every single time before it pops up. I dunno why mine makes it over instead of getting blocked....but I suppose if more machines do the blocking thing, a code adjustment that makes the target pop up a few milliseconds later might fix it?

Are there any vids showing the blocking behavoir? If not - someone wanna make one?

#8 10 years ago

I'll try and take a vid over the next few days.

It's one of those things where you just know if you have a video camera running, it won't happen!!

I was playing it last night and it happened, and I shouted out "haha see that Rarehero!!" at the top of my voice hahaha

rd.

#9 10 years ago
Quoted from MIL:

The only time mine will do it is if you hit the HULK drop targets and it drops into the saucer AT THE SAME TIME that the inserts light for Hulk multiball .

Yep, this, it lands isn the saucer so fast it doesnt start the multi mode.

Ill try to change the angle of the saucer kicker arm a little to see if that cures the problem.

#10 10 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

If you go to 1:08, you can see that's a scenario where the H target pops up really fast, but it never blocks the ball or sends it back to the saucer.

Nope, thats not when its happening. Ive never had the issue during HULK multi mode

#11 10 years ago

I put high end nail acrylic on my saucer and it freaking rocked...past tense because I traded the game. But, after time that thing was so perfect the ball never bounced out. I preached this before but we have to start yet another thread about it.

The ball hitting the drop outs constantly and never stopping happened once on my machine in like 500 plays. I'm not sure it has anything to do with steepness or how the machine is angled.

Just an FYI.

#12 10 years ago

My game has never done this but Brad's did, he asked me how to fix it and I told him I didn't have a clue since I didn't have to deal with the issue.
It has to be mechanical instead of code related since some games do it and others don't.

#13 10 years ago

Ironic. I just got done playing my Hulk LE a few minutes ago before logging in. I didn't notice which mine was doing to be honest. I think mine was similar to rarehero's video. Will look closer tomorrow and report back.

I did have multiple roll outs of the saucer hole though.

#14 10 years ago

Interesting, I have never had an issue with it (knock on wood).

#15 10 years ago
Quoted from tbanthony:

Interesting, I have never had an issue with it (knock on wood).

It's really not that big of a deal.

#16 10 years ago

Wow, my Pro has never done anything that smooth. On the third attempt in this video you can see it rebounds a few times.

#17 10 years ago
Quoted from davep999888:

Wow, my Pro has never done anything that smooth. On the third attempt in this video you can see it rebounds a few times.
» YouTube video

It looks like it works differently in the Pro model. In the LE, the target resetting seems to have a slight delay that makes a difference giving the ball a chance to pass the target.

I am guessing they will fix the code so this will not happen when they put out the update.

#18 10 years ago

Greg, thread is getting a little stale. Please make another video of something your machine doesn't do.

#19 10 years ago

I have had this scenario happen on my game a couple times. Is it a code bug with the drop not staying down to long? If so be nice to get it fixed with the next update if it ever happens.

#20 10 years ago
Quoted from mummite:

I have had this scenario happen on my game a couple times. Is it a code bug with the drop not staying down to long? If so be nice to get it fixed with the next update if it ever happens.

BOOM!!!!! Suck on that Rarehero!

happyka.jpghappyka.jpg

#21 10 years ago
Quoted from centerflank:

BOOM!!!!! Suck on that Rarehero!

LOL I'm tryin' to help...lets pool our brains together and figure out why some are one way and mine's another way..hmmm

#22 10 years ago

This is an issue with how difficult it is to knock down the H target. The ball should be able to hit the H target and still move forward. If the target is difficult to knock down, it will ricochet back and ends up in the saucer again.

If you've done the washer fix, you probably are experiencing this now. You should undo the washer fix on the H portion of the target bank. If you haven't done the washer fix, tightening the spring on the H target may solve it for you.

#23 10 years ago

Just to rule it out .... what code is everyone running on their Avengers .

I think mine is 1.4 .

#24 10 years ago

Had this happen 2 or 3 times on my LE with 1.4. Changed coil power to soft and never had it happen again.

#25 10 years ago
Quoted from davep999888:

Wow, my Pro has never done anything that smooth. On the third attempt in this video you can see it rebounds a few times.

Quoted from spidey:

Changed coil power to soft and never had it happen again.

Mine does this as well. I installed plastic spacer fix from Stern and it helped with bounce outs but did not help with ball rocketing out of saucer. Sometimes it will take numerous times before ball actually ejects because of force. I think after watching Rarehero's video it looks like his coil power was adjusted at some time? I am going to try and adjust mine and see what happens.

#26 10 years ago
Quoted from davep999888:

Wow, my Pro has never done anything that smooth. On the third attempt in this video you can see it rebounds a few times.
» YouTube video

This is exactly what mine does. It never ever goes through the h like rarehero's did in his video. I'm running 1.4. Before I adjusted it, it would have to go through a ball search, after I adjusted, it happens very infrequently and always will kick it out, just can take a couple of attempts sometimes. In video below, I couldn't get it do it as multi-ball starts, only shows it hitting the H, bouncing back into the saucer and then going through to Hulk when the H is down. In MB, the H will stay up, that's when the problems arise and the loop can start.

Here's a link to a video I just took, did it twice for me...

#27 10 years ago

Mine plays like Rarehero's. I have never done the "washer fix" to the Hulk targets so as previously mentioned that might have something to do with it.

I have also very rarely (twice ever maybe?) had a saucer bounce/rollout. The only thing I did there was I "hard as nailed" the saucer when I first got the game, I haven't even put in the extra saucer drop plastic Stern sent.

#28 10 years ago
Quoted from Lermods:

This is exactly what mine does. It never ever goes through the h like rarehero's did in his video. I'm running 1.4. Before I adjusted it, it would have to go through a ball search, after I adjusted, it happens very infrequently and always will kick it out, just can take a couple of attempts sometimes. In video below, I couldn't get it do it as multi-ball starts, only shows it hitting the H, bouncing back into the saucer and then going through to Hulk when the H is down. In MB, the H will stay up, that's when the problems arise and the loop can start.
Here's a link to a video I just took, did it twice for me...
» YouTube video

Your plunger looked like it was not hitting the ball solid. I would guess from the video it is hitting the playfield wood.

#29 10 years ago

it's not hitting the wood, comes close but is hitting the ball solid.

#30 10 years ago
Quoted from Lermods:

it's not hitting the wood, comes close but is hitting the ball solid.

Edit, nevermind. I see that the target was up.

Try the coil setting at low/soft. It is definitely hitting the target harder than mine does.

The coil setting at soft will also help a little to reduce the chances of airballs when you shoot the Hulk targets from the flippers.

3 weeks later
#31 10 years ago

Greetings campers, here's some more data. I have all three Avenger pins with the Hulk still in the box, the blue in the basement and the pro on location (I have Marvel issues). The first time I played the LE in the basement right out of the box I saw this problem and it crops up pretty regularly on my pro on location. Its ok if it does it to me but doing it to customers is a bad thing. Here's my findings last night when I dug into this.

As many people say above, if the ball drops into the saucer right as multiball starts the ping pong game starts EVERY TIME AND THIS IS A REPEATABLE PHENOMENA ON BOTH OF MY MACHINES (sorry for shouting). Software version 1.4 on both. I tried the soft coil setting to no effect. Wait a few seconds to start Hulk multiball and it doesn't happen so that aspect of it is DEFINITELY A SOFTWARE ISSUE.

On my Blue LE:

1) I noticed that every time the ball hit the H drop target the bridge would rattle so it was hitting the bridge as well.
2) Just for giggles I lifted up the bridge by hand and started the ping pong game again and the even though the H target still "double tapped" the ball was able to make it through. Problem sort of solved but not really as its just a work around.

So I went back down to my location where a guy that I had just had to give a refund (and a collector) was still there and we dug into the pro.

On the Pro:

1) Again we were able to perfectly repeat the issue every time with witnesses.
2) I was able to lift up the left side of the Black widow ramp assembly a few millimeters by hand and the ball was able to fight its way through when starting ping pong mode.
3) There is a post in the middle of the left side of the BW ramp assembly with a washer on it and I was able to remove the screw and raise the BW ramp assembly a few millimeters by putting it on top of the washer.
4) With the BW ramp assembly raised up just a bit on this post the ball can fight its way through in ping pong mode.
5) The bad news is now that BW ramp has a single point support instead of a multi-point support and it wobbles.
6) I gave a lot of credits to a guy for play testing and it didn't seem to affect the flow (much) on the BW ramp. Its kind of a bitch to hit anyway.
7) Now I have to figure out how to make additional shims/supports for the BW ramp for my pro on location.

I may be totally screwed on my Blue LE as I'm not sure I can do a similar "lift job" on it but will investigate. My Blue LE is scheduled to go out on location soon and I need to run this to ground.

#32 10 years ago

Oh yeah, and Stern definitely needs to fix this. This one single issue makes me look bad to my customer base. I hate getting "why is your machine F&^%ed up?" comments when its just a simple software bug. With all the time I've put into modding that machine to fix all the other design and manufacturing problems the "last manufacturer of real pinball machines" should address this ASAP.

#33 10 years ago

I have this problem too. It's very annoying

http://vimeo.com/85302102

#34 10 years ago

Try adjusting the angle of the plunger under the playfield. It may require a washer or two.

#35 10 years ago

I apologise I haven't been able to take any video of my machine doing it ... I've been working all through Xmas building things for my tenants.

rd.

#36 10 years ago

Yikes. Seeing this stuff is making me leery of getting one of these machines.

#37 10 years ago
Quoted from RDReynolds:

Yikes. Seeing this stuff is making me leery of getting one of these machines.

Mine must be worth a million bucks then - cuz it's never done it ever. I wish I knew why mine was different so you guys could fix yours!!!!

#38 10 years ago

I think the ball is being ejected at too shallow an angle. Mine hits toward the top of the H target and also hits the plastic a little. It can be adjusted by selectively loosening and tightening the screws underneath the VUK and also you can try washers if the adjusting the screws is not enough.

#39 10 years ago

Avengers-LE, Hulk:

Ours will do this repeatedly until the Game goes into Ball search & then since the H target STILL doesn't stay down it sometimes continues until I have to remove the PF Glass to remove the Ball from the saucer or the Game will kick out another Ball thinking 1 is missing or stuck somewhere.
IMHO it is definitely a Code issue, after going into the saucer & after the first hit the H Target should stay down allowing the Ball to go directly up to the Hulk Target/Switch/Magnet area.

I have done the Washer fix to both banks of DT's.
We have all ours Pins set at roughly 7 degrees - back Levelers all the way out & the fronts just high enough to clear the Pin Cart.

Pin - K

http://www.kimballspinballs.com/products.html

#40 10 years ago
Quoted from Pin_-_K:

Avengers-LE, Hulk:
Ours will do this repeatedly until the Game goes into Ball search & then since the H target STILL doesn't stay down it sometimes continues until I have to remove the PF Glass to remove the Ball from the saucer or the Game will kick out another Ball thinking 1 is missing or stuck somewhere.
IMHO it is definitely a Code issue, after going into the saucer & after the first hit the H Target should stay down allowing the Ball to go directly up to the Hulk Target/Switch/Magnet area.
I have done the Washer fix to both banks of DT's.
We have all ours Pins set at roughly 7 degrees - back Levelers all the way out & the fronts just high enough to clear the Pin Cart.
Pin - K
http://www.kimballspinballs.com/products.html

It is not the washer fix that I am referring. I am referring to the angle of the kicker/plunger. Also, the washer fix that you are referring can actually make the problem worse because it is harder to knock the target down.
It cannot be 100% software if my game is a Hulk also and does not do what the video shows. I do agree that if the software would put a delay in the resetting of the target then that would fix the problem, but I certainly would not sit back and complain and wait for a fix that may never come. It can work without software if the angles of the kicker are adjusted. It may take some trial and error, but that is what is required for a lot of pinball tuning.

#41 10 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

It is not the washer fix that I am referring. I am referring to the angle of the kicker/plunger. Also, the washer fix that you are referring can actually make the problem worse because it is harder to knock the target down.
It cannot be 100% software if my game is a Hulk also and does not do what the video shows. I do agree that if the software would put a delay in the resetting of the target then that would fix the problem, but I certainly would not sit back and complain and wait for a fix that may never come. It can work without software if the angles of the kicker are adjusted. It may take some trial and error, but that is what is required for a lot of pinball tuning.

Not complaining just adding my experience with the OP's issues.

While I agree that adjusting the Kick-Out (via washers or bending the Kicker Arm) may fix the "Angle Of The Dangle" (an old Engineering euphemism ;-}) in how the Ball hits the H Target & then deflects I still think it should be fixed in the Code.

Will it get fixed? If we get another update hopefully if we don't it won't.

Either way I'll try adjusting the Kicker Arm and/or adding washers under the saucer.

FWIW the H Target drops down just fine after the washer fix it just resets & the issue repeats.

All our Pins are adjusted with a level at the top & bottom of the PF so maybe they are too level side-to-side.

IMHO this all comes back to Stern NOT doing enough real world "sample Game" testing to weed out early Game play issues.

Pin - K

http://www.kimballspinballs.com/products.html

#42 10 years ago

One other note, you may want to try lowering your playfield angle down to 6.5 degrees. I have read that several people said that the game did not play well at a steeper angle. For example, the Black Widow ramp is much more likely to have ball hop and thus rejects when going up the ramp entrance.

#43 10 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

One other note, you may want to try lowering your playfield angle down to 6.5 degrees. I have read that several people said that the game did not play well at a steeper angle. For example, the Black Widow ramp is much more likely to have ball hop and thus rejects when going up the ramp entrance.

Second this. Mine is at 6.5 and I've never had this problem. Plays much faster as well.

#44 10 years ago
Quoted from olindahl:

I have this problem too. It's very annoying
» Vimeo video

Well, now I don't have to take a video! This is exactly what mine does. Thanks for posting it!

Mine doesn't do it at the start of multiball thought (like in this video...) Never had that happen (I have an LE)

Mine does it when the ball goes into the saucer in general play ... and only occasionally.

At my last pin meet, it happened 3 times during the days play ... people turned the machine off and left it.

rd

#45 10 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

It is not the washer fix that I am referring. I am referring to the angle of the kicker/plunger. Also, the washer fix that you are referring can actually make the problem worse because it is harder to knock the target down.
It cannot be 100% software if my game is a Hulk also and does not do what the video shows. I do agree that if the software would put a delay in the resetting of the target then that would fix the problem, but I certainly would not sit back and complain and wait for a fix that may never come. It can work without software if the angles of the kicker are adjusted. It may take some trial and error, but that is what is required for a lot of pinball tuning.

I Agree with this. After I did the washer/shim fix, my "H" target is harder to knock down for sure. It still goes down and the ball gets by it, but just barely. I am going to remove the shims for the "H" target alone to fix this.

I don't have the problem with the rapid reset of the "H" target sending the ball back to the saucer. This seems incredibly annoying! Too bad the switches are optos and not leaf switches. I'd just gap it larger to slow down the reset.

#46 10 years ago

Another thing to check, make sure you have the latest version of the code. Version 1.4.

#47 10 years ago

I'll try adjusting the angle on my LE and get back with the thread.

#48 10 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Mine must be worth a million bucks then - cuz it's never done it ever. I wish I knew why mine was different so you guys could fix yours!!!!

Mine did it twice in the first 3 days after taking it out of the box. Then didn't do it for a year. Hulk targets started resetting so I fix the washer fix, and now it's happening about once every 10-15 games. This game will drive you crazy. It's a good thing it's so damn bitchin'!

#49 10 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

One other note, you may want to try lowering your playfield angle down to 6.5 degrees. I have read that several people said that the game did not play well at a steeper angle. For example, the Black Widow ramp is much more likely to have ball hop and thus rejects when going up the ramp entrance.

This is 100% accurate.

#50 10 years ago

Hey, total tangent here but I've got Avengers owners attention -

Any of you guys have problems with your sling switches getting bent back? I switched to 2 in transparent rubber from Pinball Life and they haven't bent since! Just a heads up for anyone having that issue!

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 6.00
Playfield - Protection
Apron Envy
Protection
$ 54.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Lighted Pinball Mods
Shooter rods
From: $ 99.99
Cabinet - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
Other
$ 255.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Pinball Haus
Shooter rods
$ 10.00
Cabinet - Other
NO GOUGE PINBALL™
Other
$ 10.00
Cabinet - Other
Filament Printing
Other
$ 76.00
Lighting - Backbox
Arcade Upkeep
Backbox
From: $ 70.00
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
arcade-cabinets.com
Armor and blades
$ 100.00
Playfield - Other
JuanSolo's modshop
Other
From: $ 5.00
Cabinet - Other
Pin Monk
Other
$ 54.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Lighted Pinball Mods
Shooter rods
$ 39.00
Cabinet - Other
Arcade Upkeep
Other
$ 115.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
Shooter rods
From: $ 649.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
Led
$ 15.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Gweem's Mods
Sound/Speakers
From: $ 110.00
Playfield - Other
Arcade Upkeep
Other
From: $ 6.00
From: $ 20.00
Cabinet - Decals
arcade-cabinets.com
Decals
From: $ 8.99
Cabinet - Other
NO GOUGE PINBALL™
Other
$ 8.00
Cabinet - Other
NO GOUGE PINBALL™
Other
$ 29.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
Toys/Add-ons
€ 48.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Kami's Pinball Parts
Shooter rods
$ 44.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Pinball Shark
Shooter rods
$ 29.99
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
PR Mods
Sound/Speakers
$ 16.00
Boards
Lermods
Boards
$ 399.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
Led
$ 649.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
Led
From: $ 45.00
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
arcade-cabinets.com
Armor and blades
5,000 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Allentown, PA
$ 26.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
Toys/Add-ons
Hey modders!
Your shop name here
There are 74 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/avengers-hulk-saucer-discussion-rlerman-rotordave-centerflank-anyone-else and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.