I played it as well and liked it, but I don't think it will go up in value.

+1. Great game but stern found the sweet spot and it's peeked

If the ball isn't getting into the upper pops, you need to remove the rod and take off the washer outside of the cab next to barrel spring. Adjust shooter rubber tip. That should do it.

Their are so many different good titles now it is hard for any of them to gain too much value. We may even go back to the days of losing more money on NIB then before. We all know I've lost my share from changing my collection wwwwwaaaayyyyyy tooooo often. As I just finished loading a rental van again.....

Sold your Medieval Madness?

What did you get rid of Coaster?

Perfect game with one Fd up thing. I can't get mine right. Totally frustrated. Game is AAA plus though.

MM

I like the newer machines and that's that. I like the classics but, the newer machines seem to keep me coming back more. AC/DC, Avengers, Tron, TF, X-men. All great games. Still have TAF as one of my favorite classics.

I put a white shooter tip on mine and it was a 90% improvement. The white tip is slightly longer and more bouncy so it hits the ball better.

I'm starting to feel that way too. I want to give Transformers a shot. I have JM has my classic right now. The other other pins I want are all mostly newer Sterns.

I have had all the classics and have to agree the newer sterns always keep me coming back.

Someday Ill sell TAF but it would be to someone who is willing to pay premium like I did for it. Or trade it for LOTR and cash.

So if that's the case, (that the new Sterns keep people's interest over the classics) that the rating system (and likely also the resale values of the top machines) are screwed up.
Not that it can be changed, but I think if you had an arcade with each game in it, that most people would be inclined to play the newer, flashier machines over the classics.
I believe that the classic titles are only worth what they are because they hold the top rankings, and that they're not very accurate.
I wont argue that Medieval Madness is or isn't better than, say Tron, but look at some of those titles:
Indiana Jones over AC/DC? Please! Not in a million years is it a better game.
Put IJ and AC/DC in an arcade. Make AC/DC twice the price and it'll still pull in way more than twice the money IJ does.

Any arguments?

The classics have just been around so long that most of us have a history with them. I worked my butt off to get MM here and though I absolutely love the game I knew I could have tow nib Stern LE's here with that cash. So, I let it go. The buyer is thrilled and I am content with the trade. I will have a quad stern line up in this room now. I am good with that. Going to make space in the other room for Woz and TAF.

Yea, just got my hulk today and have the same issue with the shooter rod. That right ramp seems to be vary wobbly, not sure if I am missing screws or if it is just like that. Seems like i make it to the pops when the ramp doesn't wobble as much. Going to take a looks at it tomrrow and see what I can figure out.

I can definitely understand your logic. As an MM owner I've often thought I could sell that machine and get two brand new ones, it's a tough one for sure. The hard part is the history I've got with MM, it's the first pin I ever bought and I still love playing it.

If you're ever in the Vancouver, BC area just stop on by for an MM fix!

I will have a quad stern line up in this room now. I am good with that

Stern baby Stern. Its the lights action and fun. Makes the old ladies, well… look old ; )

IMG_0647.jpg

The fast newer Sterns have definitely helped my skills on the older games. I like both a lot for different reasons. Just played TOTAN and HS2 for 3 hours.

Uh, yeah. Most people outside of Pinside or RGP don't know or care about B/W or newer Stern. They just want to play something that they understand. I will do you one better than IJ vs AC/DC. How about Bally Playboy vs AC/DC LE? Playboy has kicked its ass every month but one since last June. Stern Quicksilver vs Tron LE, yep same thing. Quicksilver has outearned the Tron LE eight out of the last nine weeks, and the AC/DC LE, too. Now, to be fair, the Playboy looks like new, and the Quicksilver plays very well. Yet, to summarize a conversation with a customer from yesterday, he said that simpler is better and that the newer stuff intimidates him. This location is a bar/grill with eight beautiful pins in it. Somewhere else with a different player base, things would probably be different. One other thing to consider, I have had three times more maintenance on the newer games. Hard to believe but true.

One other thing, pay attention to the resale, but forget about the ratings, ratings are too arbitrary to matter.

Brian Bannon

man, that line up look good.

I know that's one great room right there.

All this Avengers talk is giving me pin fever . . . Hulk looks awesome . . . must resist . . .

Come on Tiger!

Right now, I'm with you. I'm liking the newer games a little more than the classics. I'm sure it'll reverse at aome point. But hard to beat the sound and light shows...

Double post. Sorry...

I agree with this. While I would still enjoy an MM or AFM in my collection, the price points of those games (and reliability) lead one to NIB purchases. There is a very nice MM for sale on his site right now, but the thought of picking up both an Avengers LE and AC/DC premium for the same price just really puts things in perspective.

I would be very interested to see what the top 100 would look like today if all votes that were older than a year (the relic voting by posters long retired from the site) were not counted. I think Stern would dominate the top ten; something unimaginable a few years ago.

A operator from belgium I bought a pinball from 2 weeks ago told me that if he put a junkyard (which is defenitly not considered a classic) next to an ac/dc the junkyard would outearn the ac/dc.

A fairer test would be if you could buy any B/W game ( NIB ) for the same price as any Stern LE, what would people choose?

Personally I would choose the B/W titles for build/fun/humor/artwork etc.

But if I had to pay more money for an old B/W or get a NIB LE, I would go Stern.

Same here, i get more drawn in with the newer games. With them i also have the most "one more game" urge. I really like the "older" games, but for owning them i prefer the newer ones. I still have some golden oldies at home, but i know that it's only a matter of time (future releases) before they get the boot!
The only ones i think i will have a hard time parting with will be AFM and (one i sold to get a better one in the future) TAF. I played SS, and i think that also will be a hard one to get rid of once i own one.

And this is something in notice more and more, people trading in older games for newer ones. I think that trend is getting more and more traction with time.

I like all pinball machines so far. My favorite right now are from the late 90s. I prefer MB as an example, and the rest of the end of Williams era pins to the Sterns. They have more toys, better software, they feel more complete and "full" if you know what I mean. Stuffed. Thet even have better dots which I think is counterintuitive. I love my XMen but MB is better for me. I had never played MB until I got one and it arrived after XMen. It has so many toys and the playfield is so stuffed it just seems different than the Sterns.

How have the QC issues been for TAVLE so far? From what I've read so far; hulk needs adjustment to prevent stuck balls. The BW ramp breaks completely? - loose screws? Loki plastic needs to be moved for visibility control. shooter lane/ramp is flawed or loose?

Would you consider these relatively easy, medium, or hard adjustments? Any pain in the ass adjustments needed?

Dont get me wrong, One of my favorite things about this hobby is dialing in and making tweaks and adjustments to my games. ACDC needed little to no tweaking while xmen has had endless amounts of tweaking. But reading about hulk and the ramp breaking has me concerned. What say you? Thx

Some have had little adjustments but, I wouldn't say its bad by any means for most. Mine has been pretty darn good so far.

I'm amazed new in box machines have so few problems. With so many parts and systems its incredible they work almost flawlessly from the start. My new Hulk had a couple minor things. One GI connecter was loose and the Tesseract baseplate needed to be retightened. That's it. The game screams.

I haven't had issues with Hulk that bother me. I'd say on my machine 1 out of 15 games a ball gets stuck and the game does a ball search. I have had no issues with the BW ramp. I think that is pretty isolated. Sight lines are an issue you'll end up wanting to improve. Honestly I spend about 2-3 weeks dialing in every game, so it doesn't seem better or worse to me than any of the other NIB I've had. I did not buy Xmen NIB. I got it from Zucot. Never had a new Williams so no idea what those were like.

I would say that my Avengers Hulk LE has had more problems than usual out of the box. Set the game up a few days ago on location and it was DOA. No power, nothing. Checked power at the outlet, good. No power at the switch. Checked the cord and found a small hole that looks like a soldering iron tip/welder(?) went through it and melted one of the hot wires. As an aside, it takes 1982 degrees Fahrenheit to melt through copper, I had to look it up. Second issue is the translite lock is jammed up and you have to flex the translite to get it out. Probably due to the new backbox design. Third issue is the game is missing two posts, one just above and just below the upper right pop bumper, so I need to install those otherwise the ball keeps getting stuck. I am going to install the posts today and I'll report back if anything else comes up. Game has about 15 plays on it now so I may discover a few more things.

Obviously, someone didn't do their job and check the power cord before it was installed. I just can't understand why Stern doesn't care enough about their customers to ensure a limited edition product leaves the building in working condition.

Brian Bannon

After being a NIB owner of TFLE and Xmen LE, I'm not giving into the hype on this one. Looks like a fun game, as most new Sterns seem "fun", but it sure isn't grabbing me as anything over the top. I still consider this game to be too early to make a $7K roll-of-the-dice on for me personally. Nothing against those that have, but again, I bit on TFLE and Xmen so I'm basing this decision on recent negative memory.

I am considering a Pro model, however. For me, seems like the best bang for the buck at the moment (or at least until Stern releases the Premium model). Just hate the thought of getting the "entry level" model though, but my wallet will be very happy if I do.

Considering the low production numbers and extremely high prices, I understand your frustration. I had 2-4 weeks of problems after receiving my AC/DC Premium. Stern's support was great, but still seemed like a slap in the face after spending nearly 7k.

As long as Stern keeps the production numbers low and sells out to distributors, I doubt it's going to get better.

Wow that sucks. Sorry to hear man. So did stern send you a new power chord or did you have a replacement one?

I played it last night was pleasantly surprised. Unique layout, nice fast/tight shots. Audio was great out of the box (unlike AC/DC, which was a mess).

Unfortunately, Avengers LE looks more like what Stern called a "Premium" with AC/DC. From my perspective, it looks like Stern decided to change their business model/pricing once again. Trying to get LE prices for a Premium product, coupled with the lack of transparency (in terms of doing or not doing an Avengers Premium) just seems sleazy. These are large purchases and I wish I felt better about the integrity of the company I'm spending my money with. Oh well.

What I 'believe' stern is going to do with your so called 'sleazy' method is keeping the door open to make premiums way down the road - like end of this year. I have a feeling they won't make them right away. I think they're kicking themselves for not having this 'fine print' so to speak for tron. This is all speculative though.

Same way I feel, well said.

I repaired the cord onsite. Chas at Stern agreed to send me a new power cord. Stern's support is their saving grace.

Brian Bannon

+1 Chas is the best!

This may be true, but the thought of being able to get a premium hurts the sales of the LE's IMO. If I knew there was an absolute limited amount of the higher end machines, I'd feel more pressure to buy an LE NOW. Now the rumor is they are going to hold out until all of the LE's sell? Keeps me on the fence.

And I think Stern did the right thing with Tron LE.. they were just getting over the negative feedback from Avatar LE and to release an unlimited amount of Tron Premiums may not have been the best thing. While they weren't able to profit on releasing more Tron LE's, the hype from the LE's is what made them able to sell a shitoad of Tron Pro's later on IMO. That and the fact that it's a fun game with excellent rules.

I would say that it is more likely that buying an LE now will result in a "more than I should be losing" loss later on when selling than if you just bought a premium or pro. Of course the flip side is you could have a BIBLE or Tron LE. I don't like to gamble with my hard earned cash with as crazy as the economy is right now.

Aren't AC/DC LEs identical to Premiums except for art/trim? What makes the Avengers LE more like a "Premium" product?

As far as I know, the only announcement Stern has made is that Premium pricing and availability will be in 2013. The "doing or not doing" of Avengers Premium is all speculation by Pinsiders.

Reality is, Stern has limited capacity on their build lines. We know there is going to be a Feb run of AC/DC Premium that people are waiting for. Rumored (not sure if it was confirmed) Feb run of Tron Pro. X-men Pros may be in there as well. All of that on top of Avengers LEs and Pros on the assembly line. Delaying Premiums to me seems like a very smart business move. Get the LEs to the early adopters, get Pros out to the European distros, get runs done of some of the backlog, then take a look at Premiums after getting market response to Avengers LEs. If the LEs don't sell out, why would Stern build the Premiums? It wouldn't make any business sense.

Also not sure why, at this point, people who seriously want an Avengers and have the cash would be on the fence waiting on Premiums. I doubt the Premiums are going to be significantly less than the LEs if AC/DC is anything to go on. There are still Hulks and Avengers LE available.

I'm happy you and others love AC/DC, thats sincerely awesome. AC/DC is fun and I love their music but I can't pull the trigger on buying one. Something is keeping me back on it. Indiana Jones by B/W is a classic and just plain awesome game - codes, rule, flow. I know it's fun to compare one pin versus the other and we all do it - but I'd rather have IJ (and I do) than AC/DC - call me the minority then. A new corvette may look better than a classic, but some people prefer the classic over the new tech. No problem either way.

In an arcade, of course the light show on AC/DC is impressive and draws attention. But IJ pulls on the heartstring of many in the 30-60 age demographic. Just a classic movie line. All depends venue of where game is placed which gets played more. Funny I was just in the brat stop in Wisconsin and they had a AC/DC Pro and Stern IJ. AC/DC was turned off and IJ still going. Shame it was off. Hope they get it back up.

Holy crap. You sold MM? Mine is going no where so feel free to come by when you have the urge to play. I'm the only true player in the house but my wife and kids love MM and when I teased I was going to sell they all said no way!

When pin fever turns into pin chubby it's time to write the check.