I agree with everything you said except this. What about bugs? How about features that have no code associated with them?

Avengers definitely shipped with better code than most releases, and the updates came very fast. Just needs that final update for perfection.

I don't expect anyone to work on it on their time off, it would just be nice to see an update as part of the standard polishing of a game's release.

Agree, lets hope we get it! As someone that has purchased a number of NIB games from Stern @ the LE/PREM prices I expect for the game to be getting updates to make it perfect. It's part of what I am paying for @ that price.

You guys probably know this already, but it was a surprise to me. I just found in the settings menu where there are selections for combo champion, combos and such. I made selections but it's not implemented. Not sure if it will ever get finished but I hope it does.

I love SKB's rules suggestions. The game is great as is, but what exactly is the spinner for? If it doesn't have rules...is there away to increase the value? Does spinning award you anything? Same with the pops. They don't award many points unless CA is qualified for collection. I'd like to see more done with them...like a super pop EB, but only "in ball"... You qualify it and get it in the same ball or you've blown it.

Finally, why not combos? Is Lonnie just not a combo kinda guy? TFLE needs them and so does AV. SM has a great, straight forward approach to combos...with nice payoffs and even a "combo Multiball"...sucks not to have combo rules.

What bugs? It's not a bug ridden game. And which features? The spinner? I don't feel like adding spinner rules will really impact the overall game. It's definitely not *needed*. There's a difference between nice to have and needed. Avengers code update would be nice to have. Avengers code update is not needed.

Agree.

I'd like to chime in and notate at least *TWO* significant bugs that need to be worked out. There *IS* still periodic issue with the ball getting trapped under Hulk's arm and the game NEVER goes into ball search mode. This doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

I still have the problem where the ball goes into the ball eject and hits the 'H' drop target. The target pops down and back up so fast it doesn't register or whatever and it loops until the game just stops. You have to reset the machine.

Gomez made a comment to me he thought this was software related. So there it is.

No, it's definitely not bug ridden. It shipped mostly complete, which many have already somehow forgotten.

Looks like they made placeholders for combos. AVE is not a combo game. Try to imagine making three different shots in a row. It ain't happening. The shots are too tight. You're damb lucky to make two different shots in a row.

Isn't the bonus rape still there? If so, it most definitely needs an update. In it's current state, it's the near equal of IJ4. All bonus, nothing else.

How does the bonus "rape" work? It's very hard to get huge bonuses. I get some big ones every so often but am pretty far into the game. It feels like I'm being rewarded for something. It's not every game and not frequently and I'm happy when I get them.

I don't think either of these are sw bugs because neither *ever* happen here. If it was a software bug then it would happen to all of us. The hulk does trap the ball occasionally but a ball search *always* runs and finds it. If you can sit idle with no switch activity and no ball search then my guess is you have a hw issue to troubleshoot. Most likely there's a phantom switch triggering somewhere because ball search only runs when no switch activity occurs for a period of time. Next time this happens, go into the switch test menu and see if any switches are toggling.

As for the hulk saucer issue, it could be solved via software but its not a Sw bug. The ball should knock the H down and go past the H at one kickout. Of your H is at all difficult to knock down or your kickout is weak / loose, it can cause what you are describing. This would be something to fix without code update and is not something that is common across all machines.

So I'm not considering either of the Sw bug that require a code update.

In another thread there have been other AV owners this has happened to.

You may be right, i'm not the Stern tech. But I know i've been waiting for 1 1/2 months for my replacement Hulk drop target bank to arrive.

I'm not reading another thread so I cannot comment there. But regardless, still isn't a Sw bug causing it. This is something you could fix yourself without any new parts if you spent 30-60 minutes with the drop target bank. Your goal is to make the H slightly easier to knock down. You could lightly file off part of the ledge on the H target. Too much and it won't stay up. It's pretty easy to remove and disassemble. I know all this because my targets wouldn't stay up. I had to add plastic to make them harder to knock down. That solved the issue but then the H was too hard to knock down and I had this issue you described. Fix for me was to undo the change over only the H target and it was back to working.

For 7k you better well believe they should be compelled to implement a rule to every design feature and rid of all the bugs. I agree with you that AV is not bug ridden, far from it, but here's the list.

Bugs:
-Thor backbox flasher doesn't always pulse every game when assembled. If it does pulse, it will pulse for the entire game no problem. It seems another lamp or flasher is overriding it. Lonnie is aware of the bug and working on it.
-hulk; when hulk is hit, the last action in software is to pulse the magnet which sometimes sends the ball behind hulk just as he lowers his arms. This is a rare occurrence but its a flow killer when it happens. Not a bug persay, but a definitive software tweak is needed.
-hulk; during mb, if you hit hulk, he'll do his thing, if you shoot another ball at him at the perfect time it'll go behind him before he drops his arms. The hulk platform switch does not seem to deactivate until after hulk drops his arms.
-tesserect will sometimes register a letter when the ball is in the pops. This was fixed for the shooter trough in last release. Now it needs to be applied to the pops.

Software needed:
-BW spinner has no rules associated to it. I suggested to Lonnie that after a certain number of spins, it will start a nick fury hurry up - similar to gambit hurry up in xmen.
-LOKI once you spell LOKI the ball lock is lit; when you spell Loki again.....now what? Nothing. Lock it out like LoTR or have some fun with it.
-nick fury reward animation gets overridden by other gameplay actions; need to show the player what was awarded.

version 1.4 was released feb 11, 2 months after the game was released. I would think it would be impossible to have a pinball completely bug free and polished only 2 months into release. Obviously there is much feedback to get once the game is in the wild.

I guess compared to some games we should be grateful that its where its at, but hopefully we'll get that next update. It seems like that would be the last one, there would be nothing further to be expected.

The "H" - Saucer loop issue is common. I've seen it posted a few times here and it happens on my LE and another LE I know of. It doesn't happen often ... But it does happen. Every 100 games maybe? That's my guess for my machine.

When the ball goes into the saucer (seems to be from a random shot, not Multiball start nor extra ball shot) it will fire up and into the H.
The ball then falls back into the saucer.
The H resets up.
Then the ball fires into the H.
The ball then falls back into the saucer.
The H resets up.
Then the ball fires into the H.
The ball then falls back into the saucer.
The H resets up.
Then the ball fires into the H.
The ball then falls back into the saucer.
The H resets up.
Then the ball fires into the H.
The ball then falls back into the saucer.
The H resets up.
Then the ball fires into the H.

I think you get the idea

The only way to stop the loop is to turn the machine off.

rd.

YES! totally agree so Stern. . . you listening? we would like a code update to polish avengers just finished playing a couple games and I love the game just needs a couple little polish items to make it perfect.

These are great ideas. Especially the spinner rule. Love it.

Lets move backwards first then finish honing games in order released. Or promised rather =)

TF then Xmen then AV probably should be a couple even before TF to get something but like stated above you cannot expect all programmers to work 24 hours a day for 1 wage.

The issue is when the ball is launched, it hits the H target, knocking the target down and landing back in the saucer. What should happen is the ball hits the H target, knocking it down easily, and still having enough momentum to enter the hulk area. That's how mine behaves. It's true it could be fixed in SW to avoid reraising the H target. And that probably should be done anyway. But the real fix is to sort out why the drop target on some games requires more force to knock down so that the loop can be prevented - like my game.

@eskaybee: great list there dude. All those things seem like great additions. But I don't feel like any of them will make a significant change to the game play. At least not like the impact xmen or even acdc updates have had.

It's easy if you know what to do. Start a multiball (Loki usually, but whatever is easiest), enable mystery, collect mystery, repeat. When you get down to one ball, start another multiball and repeat. All multiball and mystery, all the time. Everything else is completely meaningless. You can see this quickly by taking the glass off, but it's slightly more to do it with the flippers.

Bonus multipliers are often awarded from mystery. I've seen as high as 9x added with a single mystery award. Hold bonus is also one of the awards. I've heard the multiplier maxes out at 25x. If you get 25x and hold bonus, those points are going to be worth way, way more than the points you earn while actually playing the balls. At least 5x more. More like 10x or more. IJ4 is the same.

One of the problems is that you can 'stack' mystery qualifications. So you can easily collect multiple mystery awards during a multiball. They may turn mystery stacking off. They'll likely award less multipliers from mystery too. Maybe max the bonus multiplier at 10x. Or they could reduce the value of bonus. It will get better with an update, but the scoring is badly lopsided currently.

"Bonus hold" is the most valuable Mystery award. Gold!!

The mystery seems to award the next level of Bonus X.

So if you have 2x already (from top rollovers) you get 4x.

If you have 4x, next is 6x .... Etc etc.

I've had 14x.

I think RGR reported he had 20x on a 780m game which was all bonus.

rd.

TOM is the same. Keep shooting the left loop for multipliers and you get massive bonuses.

Far bigger than any points obtainable in normal play.

rd.

Even when "someone" is Stern? Op tells me the crap is factory. DCFAN's comment seem to support that.

Yes. Even then. So if I go add some duct tape in my game some where and balls get trapped on it, I should come here and bitch about bad software and ask when the duct tape update is due out? So ridiculous.

In not finding this to be remotely easy. I played at least 10 games and tried this method and my best bonus was 32 mil and that only happened after a monster ball where I beat several duals. If there is something to exploit here, I'll say that its difficult enough to do that anyone doing it well deserves the high points.

Don't agree with the first - never had it not go into ball search mode. Agree with the second (only partially). If you time it right you can give a nice nice that will free up that loop.... little too hard and you'll get a tilt though. But you don't have to reset the machine for sure.

yep - thats what happens but as I said you can terminate the loop with a properly timed nudge. I've experienced this about 5 times, but after the 3rd time I mastered the nudge. Wasn't hard to do. Just need to nudge to prevent the ball from returning to the saucer is all.

Whatever. Might be a great tournament strategy. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the champ players have a little OCD. IM more like ADD. I play pinball for fun, not to hit the same shot over and over. And actually, I call BS. With the lanes wide open, you need to nut those shots time and time again or put the ball in danger....again, a top player can probably do it...anyone else will drain way more often than capture a massive bonus.

I've seen 9x awarded from mystery. I've been told that it maxes out at 25x.

Easy probably wasn't the best word to use. The strategy is stupid easy, but executing it takes some time. Lots of wood chopping along the way. But it's currently the ONLY strategy a good player should use in a tournament.

That 32M was probably more than you earned while actually playing the ball.

Once you get a multiball started, try to cradle balls on the right flipper. If you get two on there, it's very easy to lightly backhand the outer ball up to either relight or collect mystery. The inner ball will stay on the flipper if you keep it up. The outer ball will often bounce back to the raised right flipper after collecting or relighting mystery. You can get multiple mystery awards with very little risk. If you have one ball on each flipper, do a post pass on the left flipper to get both on the right flipper. On paper, that sounds crazy, but that's what will get you the most points.

If you have 3 balls in play, try to hold (cradle) 2 on the right flipper while hammering on the mystery target with the third ball from the left flipper. When that ball drains, use the 2 cradled balls to get some more mystery. Mystery also lights (awards?) extra ball too, so you should be getting one of those now and then. Hold bonus is huge. When you collect that, you definitely don't want to tilt that ball or the next one.

You actually don't get 9x from mystery. I think it's 4x or 6x but it shows 9x as that's what your current multiplier hits with the reward.

25x is the cap.

I agree this could be the best strategy for a tourny player, but how many of us are consistent tourny players? Plus, most machines have tourny strategy and casual strategy forms of play.

Like markmon said, your not going to get consistent results with this strategy and it could hurt a player more than reward. Big risk:reward. But your bonuses won't probably get much higher than 30M or so.

You want to see 100M+ bonuses? Play the game for what it is and figure out how to collect and complete avengers consistently while defeating AotHC and stacking your 2x shots with the vs modes. Then you'll see some heavy bonuses. They're about as rare as a mini wizard mode, which makes it fun.

Yes, you will get consistent results. Try the tips I posted above. Little risk, huge reward. 30M is nothing.

Before you guys defend the current lopsided software any more, I've heard from a good source that corrections will be made. Most players enjoy the different layout. When they get the software straightened out, it should be a great tourney game.

For now though, if you own one, you might as well run up a huge score now. Once you update, any big scores will be wiped out. Enjoy the early unbalanced software while you can. It won't be around for much longer. And when you do update, backup the old software first so you can go back and enjoy it later.

One thing I dislike about the code is the fact that the Shoot Again light flashes when you collect Jackpots, it does it in such a way that you think you have an active ball save, it's pretty confusing on the eye/brain, I consider it a minor bug - anyone else?

I totally agree. I think this is why he said to do it during MB. But it sent the balls out if control more often than not.

Try the cradling 2 balls on the right flipper trick. Plenty of control. The backhand shots are light. They don't need to get up very far. The rebounds off the standups after you hit them are slow, because your shot was light. Lots of control.

Bonus should very rarely (hold bonus, quick drain on next ball) be worth more than what you earn while playing the ball. Happens way too much as the game is now.

Ill take your word on the code update and try this strategy. Very hard to stay this disciplined though....the SHOTS are the THING on AV, and not to rake them as often as possible is like having sex without love....or something like that.

Yes. Totally agree. The extra ball arrow lights too. Neither should ever light unless their available.

Agree 1000% Major bug. They better fix it.

To become a better player, you have to accept that the fun shot is rarely the best shot. AVE will get more balanced soon. In the mean time, try playing like a tournament player. You'll be tired when you get done, but your scores should be noticeably bigger. Get while the getting is good. It won't last long.

yep this is annoying and divert the ball for Xtra ball!

+1

I like the fact that it doesn't. Makes you use strategy like try to get it so xball lights before hulk or save hulk mb until xball is lit. I try to get my first Loki mb going right away then hammer the lamp with the goal to end Loki with xball lit.

Avengers need new software
This game have lot potential so please Stern make something

Xmas power pack baby! Install the code and flip for $10K

Avengers is pretty complete, although I would like to see a few tweaks. I'm hoping for X-Men code more...

Avengers is super cool the way it is but the more code updates the better. So make it happen.

It'll happen. They know the game needs a little spit and polish. George won't abandon his last game.