(Topic ID: 61349)

AUSTRALIAN Owners Of WOZ & WOZ LE Machines Not Receiving Their Product

By LJ

10 years ago


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  • 77 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by Pimp77
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#59 10 years ago
Quoted from MTPPC:

THis is not exactly true. JJP demonstrated some culpability in the matter when they decided to take the deposits on approx. 75 machines and convert those into hard orders for 25 machines. It is my understanding that Bumper took about $450k from buyers and forwarded about $150k to JJP as deposits. WHen Bumper couldn't come up with the remainder, JJP converted the deposits into orders for 1/3 of the machines. This created an impossible situation for 2/3 of the buyers that had already paid.

But is what you're saying true either? Can you prove that Bumper took in $450k and not just $150k? Can you say for a legal certainty that Bumper themselves did not request their order be changed?

For example, if Bumper did take in $450k and then paid $150k to JJP, if JJP began having doubts that the remaining funds still existed after all the ownership/name changes and requested proof of the remaining $300k funds in trust and Bumper was unable to do so, they might've been asked whether they wanted no games and their money back, or as many games as the amount already paid would support.

Remember, it's Bumper that took orders from customers and then secured deposits on ~70 machines. JJP's direct customer is Bumper, not the ~70 end users. For example, in my day job I'm a registered Intel dealer. If I order 100 CPUs and then change my order to 50... is it Intel's job to phone me up and question what those other 50 CPUs were for and then insist that I buy them because my customers might need them?

I should also probably note that JJP has requested several times over the past year or so that Bumper's direct customers contact him, and I've seen it posted in the WOZ forums and I'm pretty sure someone has relayed that message in the Australian forums. JJP clearly was never privy in the past to Bumper's customer list, so they could not know which of those ~70 machines were fully paid, partially paid, never paid, going out on location, going to sit in a warehouse for the next three years to appreciate in value...

Yes, right now this would appear to be a bad situation. But without any hard facts, it's all nothing more than guesswork.

#167 10 years ago
Quoted from wolftownjeff:

Do you mean Bumper was the exclusive distributor for the entire country?

It's not that big a country. Hell, Canada's exclusive Stern distributor is Starburst/Playdium, meaning anyone else carrying Stern still has to buy through Starburst, and we've got 50% more population than Australia, and Stern sells a heck of a lot more machines than JJP.

As far as I know, there's two ways to buy direct from Jack... through JJP, or through PinballSales.com (I think it actually states "Jack Guarnieri Service Co., Inc.").

The original $250 WOZ deposits *were* placed through the pinballsales.com website, but both my WOZ and Hobbit invoices do state "Jersey Jack Pinball Inc." (and I have ordered from pinballsales as well in the past).

Quoted from MTPPC:

Although JJP was paid an amount greater than the value of one game, they were never paid for a single game in full (as I understand the situation). That being the case, JJP stands with a number of partially paid orders, none of which has had their terms or obligations fulfilled. It would be wholly inappropriate to lump those orders together and reduce the quantity because the games cannot be evenly distributed to those who have been victims of this fraud.

That depends. If Bumper, either before or after, old or new, changed their order from deposits to full machines using the funds already paid, or failed to live up to their contract which resulted in same, then JJP has lived up to their obligations. This might also explain why machines originally destined for Australia have shown up elsewhere - Bumper cancelled the orders for them.

Also, I doubt returning all funds to the trustee would be the most desirable outcome, because if that happens there is essentially zero chance that any of it will be returned to the people who ordered games - there are far higher priority creditors before them. And certainly the new Bumper can't be trusted with them.

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