I recommend sticking with Subaru or Toyota. I actually buy new vehicles every 2-3 years and usually try and trade them in before 90k miles. I buy wholesale and usually pay $500-$700 below dealer invoice. When I buy my vehicles $3000-$6000 cheaper than MSRP it really helps when I trade in or sell the vehicle. Recent vehicles: 2013 Toyota Tacoma TRD crew cab listed at $34,500 paid $30,500 traded it in two years later with 30,000 miles. The dealer gave me $30,000 trade in. It cost me $500 to own a new Toyota for two years? Then I bought a new $38,000 Tundra for $32,000. Another vehicle I traded, 2015 Subaru WRX I paid $25,000 put 14,000 miles on it and dealer gave me $23,000 trade in. I traded it in towards 2017 STI and took $1400 tax credit towards new vehicle. If you buy a car that has a high resale value and proven reliability it will actually save you money from buying a used car and having to deal with maintenance. I always joke at the dealer when my two year free oil changes and maintenance runs out I say 'It's time to get a new car.'

I know you like Subaru and if you test drive the STI or WRX you will be in trouble, it sells itself. Honestly the standard WRX has tons of power and is available in an automatic (but I would never recommend an automatic for WRX) and it is only $25,000 new with full warranty and AWD. The trunk is actually quite large and kids fit in the back seats well. Then maybe find an old Toyota Tacoma pick up to drive around town and service your route?

Can I bring you car shopping next time????

I actually enjoy it. I call three dealers and tell them what I want and that I am a cash buyer and I want my best price out the door. I tell them I don't like playing games and to give me their best pricing. I also usually order my vehicles from factory with special options. If the dealer is just ordering a vehicle and is not making any money on it or not having to sell a desirable model on their lot at a discount, they look at it as if they can increase their number of units sold and help increase their allotted allocation. My wife rolls her eyes when I get into car buying mode.

I had an Audi A6 for 9 years and have had an Audi A8L for the past 4 years. When they work they are awesome vehicles. Drive wonderfully, very comfortable, powerful, and feature rich. However, maintenance costs and reliability are an absolute nightmare. This will be my last Audi. I love my '94 Toyota Land Cruiser (will never sell), and am ready for something more reliable and less costly to maintain for my next everyday driver vehicle. I would recommend sticking w/ Subaru or going with a Toyota/Lexus or Infiniti.

Just sold my son's VW Passat (essentially and Audi A4). While it was a very well engineered car (over-engineered in some areas), it was a maintenance nightmare. I just go sick of having my head under the hood of that car. Stupid stuff like the PCV system on it just fell apart and was a major PITA to service but the car was up in miles.

The best German car I ever owned was a BMW 330i. One of the best engines ever made IMHO. Second best was a Mercedes E350. The two VW's I've owned were overall reliable but a bit temperamental (check engine lights galore).

I am not a fan of Japanese car styling these days. I have owned a couple of Hondas in the past and they were rock solid.

I would go with the Audi as long as it has a warranty.

I'll throw in my two cents JJ since i own both.

I have a QX80 Infiniti, love it, my favorite car I've ever owned. What will it look like at 200k miles? Can't tell you that.

My wife has an Audi Q7. I'll never buy another Audi again because of the repair costs. They just bent me over for about $2800 of brake repair, not just replacement. And you can't just take it to the local guy because of the parts. So you are captive. Drives great, but so do a lot of other cars!

I've got an F-150 King Ranch that has been flawless over 110k miles. But that's not a Denver type of car for sure

Since Odin repairs cars for a living i'd certainly listen to him.

Wow - my experience has been different from most here.

My wife and I both own 5 year old cars which were both purchased new - both cars have about 75k miles

Wife - Infiniti QX56 (which I believe is now the 80) - biggest POS I've ever owned. Car is in the shop consistently. Tons of problems throughout our ownership. Every suburban mom in my area drives it - lots of problems

Me - Audi S5 Cabriolet - my favorite, most reliable car I've ever owned. Never had a single problem.

My infiniti experience has been so bad I would never consider buying a car from them again.

own a
09 S5
17 Q7

Really like the Audi's - S5 is a blast to drive.

I would go with the SQ5 - driven the regular Q5 a bunch and it's a load of fun.
Repairs can get costly at the Dealer if that's a concern.

I'm surprised there hasn't been a post here raving about Tesla's for not only performance & reliability, but also their low cost of ownership.

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Voted for infiniti. Wife has driven a G37 for six years and loves it. Recently bought a Hyundai Santa Fe and I love it, but that one is not in your poll. One downside to choosing a sedan is you can't haul pins in it, you obviously already have other vehicle for that purpose.

However, you can fit most slot machines in a sedan.

You guys are scaring me w/ the Audi horror stories.

Next year, I'm in the market for a A6 model.

I would buy a Lexus, Infiniti, or Nissan in that order. No dice on an Audi.

Go test drive a Toyota 4Runner Trail edition with KDSS....you may be surprised at how good they feel. Still manufactured in Japan and imported. Tight. Very tight.

Given that criteria, the answer to your question is actually very easy: go with the Infinity.

I wouldn't own a Audi, BMW or Mercedes once they are out of warranty. The dependability is not there compared to Infiniti (and others). Not only are you more likely to encounter mechanical issues, but when you do, it is more costly to repair the Euro cars.

So if reliability and cost of repair/maintenance is a priority (and it should be since you plan on owning for 9 or so years), definitely go Infiniti.

By the way, I have a friend who has a Audi RS7 that he leases. It's been a nightmare! Huge number of electrical issues. One day he was unable to turn the car off. He wants Audi to take the car back as a Lemon. Not sure what the current status is

I have had 20 + Audi s , all were new , never had any issues, best driving car , we have also leased 20+ Lexus , never
Had any issues, their quality and service is the best.

Here's another ride to consider in the Infiniti line. The QX-70 Sport, feels and drives like a sedan and has proven a proven track record and looks that kill especially in black with Sport Package. This is basically the Fx37 re-badged. The down side is the the tech in the vehicle is a bit outdated compared to the Q50.

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That QX-70 is pretty cool too. I agree with the limited rear view! But you'll get used to it. Side mirrors my man plus the back up cams, don't really need it.

Plus is has more engine than the competition.

Do not buy a used high maintenance German car. They are nice when they are under warranty and repairing them isn't your problem, but after the warranty get ready for a lot of issues and repair expenses. Nice when new, garbage when older.

Go with an Audi. The best cars period. Maintenance & service is quite easy if you're mechanically inclined and don't mind doing the work.

The blind spot is an issue but usually people get used to it, with tech pack you get blind spot warning and there are cams on mirrors, front and back on all models now for going in reverse.

I think 90% of luxury car buyers wouldn't know where the radiator water bottle is and how to fill it up ... let alone how to do some mechanical work on it ..

I remember my A4 MTM 286hp I owned, to do the cam belt you had to drop the whole front end off the car. Radiator out, bumpers off, grill off, everything. Crazy! The service manual said it was a two day job (at $100 an hour) Toyota, you're done in 2 hours.

rd

I know this isn't an Audi nor an Infiniti, but my '02 Accord 5-speed has nearly 200k miles on the clock, and still runs like a swiss watch. I've only had to replace the O2 sensor on it and the front end makes some noise, but mechanically, nothing's wrong. It even has the original clutch.

My Fiancé drove a '99 Corolla into the ground, had close to 300k miles on it until the power steering pump seized up. Somehow, someone was willing to buy the car for on CL for actual money.

If I were buying a car used, I'd have to agree with rotordave. Lexus/Toyota is where I'd put my money. Our Corolla with 300k miles on it made me a believer. It was a religious experience seeing that thing roll over the odometer like that.

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I recall reading some older editions of consumer reports. If I remember correctly, both Audi and Infiniti had lackluster reliability scores. I know newer Audi's have been making strides in reliability very recently, but if you're looking at used 2-3 year old cars, I'd look elsewhere.

ools

My A8 has a timing belt on its' V8 engine. Like yours, the whole front end has to come off. Several special tools are needed (I paid a few hundred bucks for the tools) did the timing belt job twice now and recently did a lot more front end work....

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Damn... I consider myself a pretty handy guy. I do everything myself. Brakes, suspension, tune ups, you name it. But man... That looks horrible. I think I'd rather saw my legs off with 19th century medical equipment than have to change that belt.

Nice work having the knowledge and stamina to do it though. Mega props.

We have an FX35... car hasn't had a single issue in almost 4 years. Great car... super fast!

MrBally also wins the award for having the most spray bottles humanly possible to have on one shelf! Even more than a Walmart!

rd

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Looks like mostly Griots Garage stuff for detailing.

Irony?

Yeah. Some things are worth paying for to make life easier. My time and low stress lifestyle is worth a lot to me.

Have Fun in your Garage.

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Yes!

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Wow, I'm somewhat surprised Audi uses a belt instead of a chain like BMW or Mercedes. I've had the belts replaced on my Sienna and Tundra at 100K for $300 each at the Toyota dealer. They always try to sell a water pump at the same time, but I figure why replace if its not seeping.

I don't now much about Audis. My daughter wants one, but after this discussion I'm trying to steer her to a Lexus.

This thread has created a strong case for the 2-year lease.

I voted with my wallet last year and bought a used garage kept 2005 Infiniti G35x with 64,000 km (~40,000 miles) on it. When I had it inspected the garage said it looked to be about 2 years old mechanically, or better.

I was looking for an upgrade to my Mazda 3 as my oldest daugher was getting squished in the back seat, and getting a 280 hp rwd luxury sedan (that can split power 50/50 between the front and rear wheels if needed) for around the price of a Stern LE pinball here in Canada seemed good.

So far it has been super reliable (knock on wood). The "big" issue I have had is "fan" belt chitp on startup when it has been cold in Jan. and Feb., but that is likely due to having them changed in Sept. I don' think they tightened one or both of them enough, OR the overtightened them, or used the cheapest crap fan belts ever. So not the car's fault, and just a bit of a sting as an exampe of preventative maintenance causing an issue, even if it is only a few second annoyance. I might tighten these in a few weeks, I just keep hoping it warms up before then .

There is also a bit of a "crunch" sound from the suspension when I accelerate hardish with the wheel turned, or when going over elevation changes (say in a parking garage). I think it is lubrication related (as it seems to go away when its raining), but the garage could not replicate it. Since it is something that happens maybe 0.2% of the time while I am driving, I will look at it in the summer, and maybe lubricate the sway bar bushings in the meantime.

And my other "huge" issue is a bit of a rattle from the front passenger door I haven't been able to eradicate.

So for a 2005, probably not too bad. I am happy with the Car so far. One of the draws for me is it was one of the last "simple" cars, not a million different systems to go wrong (compared to current cars with a million engine tweaks to save gas, infotainment, and sensors everywhere).

And I cross shopped BMW's from that era in particular and found an almost hilarious litany of issues mainly stemming from bad design and cheaping out (particularly with cheap plastic, and using plastic where others use metal). I loved the BMW styling, and I am sure they drive well, but I don't see many early 2000 BMW's still on the road around here.

The picture above of having to tear of the car's front end and need special tools to do routine maintenance basically makes the argument for me to avoid Euro cars. I love them, but don't need that sort of issue in my life. My hobby is pinball, not tossing money to garages, or spending my whole life in my garage.

Taking the whole front end off an audi is very quick and easy and it gives you complete access to the timing belt .The last audi timing belt I did was on my mother's A4 and it took me about 3 1/2 hours start to finish . Audi recomends ( for the model I was working on )timing belts to be replaced at 80,000 miles so this is not work you'll be doing every year. The only way to get that type of complete access to most japanese cars is to pull the motor out (which is way more work ) and yes they can be done without doing so but it sure is nice to have complete access when doing a timing belt . Specialty tools are needed for most timing belts Audi I needed a crank lock $25 ( this one works on a few different audi motors ) and a cam lock $160 ( this one is specific to one or 2 types of motors ) both tools I purchased from my Mac tools dealer .when I sold my audi that used that cam lock tool I traded that tool back in to theMac dealer and was given $150 credit for it . Lexus and infiniti are fine cars and it is a fact that they hold their value better than audis , and will require less work than an audi , but a used one will cost you thousands more than a comparable used audi . So either you spend the money when you buy the car or later when it needs to be fixed . Since I can do all the work myself used audis are a good choice for me .

Get a Toyota or Lexus.
Nissan/Infiniti are the Chrysler of Japan
Audi's, BMW, Mercedes over priced junk.
Volkswagen? Please.

Have owned a Titan, 2 Sentras, and a Maxima. I recently bought a 3 year old Infiniti G37x coupe. Wife and I absolutely love it. Traded in our 2 year old VW Touareg which started to have electrical problems. Would love to have an Audi S5 in the future, but will only lease, not buy.

Easy decision if you're buying used: Infiniti.

Fair enough, I know this is not annual maintenance (for most drivers ) but still routine maintenance. If I ever have to have the timing chain replaced in my Infiniti (I am more likely to sell it in 5 years than put enough miles to warrant this) I will try to let you know the damages.

Looking into BMW's of this vintage, it seemed they had cheaped out and used a timing chain, but then used plastic runners to help guide the chain. The plastic eventually fails, causing the chain to slip, and getting bits of plastic throughout the engine. A spectacularly memorable end to a vehicle to be sure (OMG my engine just exploded!), but not something I want for my family on a road trip .

Plus two more shelves of their stuff....

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Oh wow, I don't feel too obsessive about the relatively minor amount of detailing I do then

Then there's the gallon refill stash along with reserves of some of the waxes & other stuff....

TDLR; Infiniti has more reliability and features for a similarly priced German

I'll put in my $.02 since I've owned a couple Infinitis and a couple BMWs (currently have 2 BMWs, 1 Infiniti). Car for dollar, Infiniti wins hands down, and this is due mainly to the fact then when people think luxury, they think BMW, Audi, and MB, and that comes with a price. We bought a 2011 BMW 328i wagon for my wife. Wonderful car, has a 220hp N/A I6 (the last of it's kind) and it is sufficient for getting up to speed and passing. The handling is off the charts, and the best handling stock suspension I've driven. I had an 08 G37S coupe. Lots of grunt under the hood, 6MT, RWD, TONS of fun! Had to let it go because we had 2 kids, but man, I loved driving that car. Also have a 94 BMW 530i, with the baby V8. Had only 120K miles on it with modified suspension. The V8 is smooth as butter, but with a car that is 20+ years of age, things start to fall apart and crumble. VERY easy car to work on, as was BMW back in the day. Still love driving it!

Currently I have a 2011 Infiniti M37x. Priced out to be CHEAPER than my wife's 328i, but has upgraded leather with cooled/heated seats, beautiful wood trim, speakers in the the seats, heated steering wheel and the same engine that was in my 08 G37S...the list goes on and on. Features galore compared to the same BMW 530i or MB E350. I drove all 3 and liked driving the MB the most, but the M37 just was packed with much more car for the money. The reliability of Nissan over German goes without saying. My vote goes for Infiniti. An underrated luxury brand.

Oh yah, I'd pass on the AWD, totally overrated unless you have snow tires. RWD with snow tires outperforms AWD without snow tires any day of the week.

If I wanted a car built in Germany, I'd buy either a BMW or a Mercedes. Not an Audi. If I wanted a luxury car from Japan, I'd buy a Lexus. Not an Infiniti.

Just me.

The problem with lexus -- they have the worlds UGLIEST front end.
Who in their right mind at that Lexus design department thought it would be a good idea to sell a car with the middle of the front end missing?

I test drove their GS350F sedan. Loved how it drove. Nice interior, looks fine from sides, looks fine from rear... but I just could not get past that F'ing ugly front end. Until they pull their heads out and redesign that front end, they will continue to lose tons of sales.

Yeah, some don't like it ... don't think the sales have suffered though.

Looks pretty mean I reckon ... especially in the flesh. My 72 year old father keeps running his fingers over the curves every time he comes around. The other day he said "every time I see it I see a different angle..."

rd

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I think the front end looks fantastic myself