(Topic ID: 163511)

(ATX) First pin: 1966 Central Park (pics, vid and schematics)


By theoakade

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 31 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Boatcat
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 3 years ago

FIRST POST!!! Wanted to get into pinball. Was going to build a VP cab but figured lets get into the hobby from the beginning. I'm not scared of EM, but I want to take my time in understanding everything before really tinkering. I bought a 1966 Central Park for 100 bucks the other day. Barn find but looks to be complete. Outside needs help but the playfield and underneath guts look pretty good. Came with all the manuals, game info and two sets of schematics. All the plastics are 100%. Figured at that point it's been cared for. Lady said it's been in her family for 50 years, and it worked when they put it in storage five years ago. I brought it home, gave it a tuneup kit, cleaned and waxed. Figured it was time to plug it in and see what happens!

The machine turns on. All lights seem to work on playfield and in backglass. The scoring motor does not reset the score reel. However, the replay reel resets itself to 0 but keeps chugging along - never stopping. I didn't want this to last long so I took a video...

I attached two pics of the schmatics. I can upload more too. I'm assuming once the diagram reaches "BALL RELEASE" the startup sequence is complete. Correct?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm trying to wrap my head around the schematic diagram. I have a feeling it's the (DB) Reset Relay but I wanted to see what y'all thought first before even looking. Could be more simple. I will post restoration pics soon on a different thread. I think I'm doing good work on the plastics and playfield stuff. It was looking rough...

Anyways, I attached two more pics of the cab and the playfield. Lemme know what you think about the cabinet or the startup problems. Any tips or advice will be gladly received.

Hope we can get this working together. Soon I'll buy a volt meter. Also read I should get an adjustment tool and a flexstone.

Cheers!

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#2 3 years ago

credit wheel chugging to zero... control bank reset not happening? Do you see the bank firing? Check the bank fuse/manually hit the reset bar. Sometimes you just need to rotate fuse in holder

#3 3 years ago

Very nice pf by the way... good find

#4 3 years ago
Quoted from pinhead52:

credit wheel chugging to zero... control bank reset not happening? Do you see the bank firing? Check the bank fuse/manually hit the reset bar. Sometimes you just need to rotate fuse in holder

Ok. Ill take a look tonight and let ya know what I see.

#6 3 years ago

I removed the Control Bank fuse. Rubbed it down and reset it. I also saw the manual reset bar above the bank you mentioned so I manually hit it. I turned the machine on and the score reel reset! Released balls for new game!

I couldn't resist.... so I played. Bumpers and flippers and targets and chimes work. But once the Yellow Special (left side advance) target was lit, and a ball hit another Yellow Advance drop target in the back-left of the playfield, it fired a coil underneath the Yellow Special playfield light and it just kept firing. Wouldn't stop. I turned the machine off. Unplugged it, hit the reset bar again. Turned it back on and a new game started. The scoring reel reset to 0. But I noticed the target/advance lights did not. Here is a video of me showing what's going on.

The scoring reel resets, the replay reel resets, the game starts.

The Yellow Special Target light does not reset. The Green side advances all the way to Special. But when the Special is lit, and I hit the special target, I don't get a score for it.

And here's the big problem. The Yellow side does not reset so it stays with Special lit even with a new game. The moment a Yellow drop target is hit, a coil underneath the special light fires and keeps firing until machine is turned off (or the reset bar is hit again I'm guessing.)

It was nice to see everything reset. The flippers and chimes work. Balls release. Targets score. Even the monkee in the backglass works. I assume that's a fantastic sign.

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#7 3 years ago

Here is a video of me restarting the machine without hitting the reset bar first. Notice the score does not reset. Yellow special never resets and the coil underneath fires away.

Any ideas. We're making progress I think.

#8 3 years ago

Toward the bottom of the schematic, column G, notice the 1/2A fuses for each of the control bank resets, the main one and the Yellow and Green. Check that those fuses are all good. You'll also need to locate and check all of those associated Armature switches.

#9 3 years ago

Bingo! Shoulda looked at these anyways. Schematic understanding just went from a 1 to a 2. Thanks again. It was a mish mash of fuses. Gonna replace em all.

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#10 3 years ago

Generally a good idea, and while you're doing it make sure the fuse holders themselves look good, with plenty of spring tension on the clips. If not, replace those too or they'll cause you no end of trouble.

#11 3 years ago

Here's a video with the machine on and working...

A couple quirks linger...
1) Some playfield lights underneath don't work.
2) Ones scoring reel gets stuck on 9.
3) Game starts with right slingshot bonus light on. Not sure if it is supposed to because otherside light is out. Ill replace lights and see what happens.
4) Game starts with 10 sequence already lit. Not sure if it starts at 10 cause other light could be out. Needa replace lights then see whats what.
5) Only one pop bumber seems to light up. They all work tho.
6) Flippers need cleaning. Gummy.
7) Need to restore monkee backglass plastic.
Eight) Special targets when lit dont give points.
9) Starts with a dime switch, but dropping a dime doesnt seem to make contact. Ive been manually tapping switch until I look underneath to see whats going on.

Thoughts? Questions? Tips?

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#12 3 years ago

6-8 different issues to clear up, all minor. #3 is normal, alternates back and forth. #4 normal, both should be lit, probably bad socket or bulb..

#1, flacky sockets. A alligator jumper from 6v fuse to various sockets will tell you bad bulb or bad socket or bad feature switch

flippers, clean them etc.

#9, I never like coin mechs anyway...

#13 3 years ago
Quoted from pinhead52:

#1, flacky sockets. A alligator jumper from 6v fuse to various sockets will tell you bad bulb or bad socket or bad feature switch

So a bare 6v fuse? Im confused. Theres a 7.5 amp fuse, 3 .5 amp fuses and 3 10amp fuses in the machine.

Should I just get a volt meter?

#14 3 years ago

While you have the special lit, go to the back of the machine and at the credit unit, you'll see 3 free-standing switches. Just adjust all 3 to be closed all the time. After doing this, hit the special target to see if it works. Closing all 3 switches will also put the game on free play where you won't have to keep hitting the dime switch on the door, hope this works for you. If the credit target still doesn't work, report back and we'll move on with that.

The 10-point-when-lit sling alternates with the other side upon hitting anything worth 1 point. Look for the 0-9 unit in the head and while hitting something on the playfield worth 1 point, watch to see if this unit is stepping up. If it is, remove the 3 screws on the unit that are facing you. This removes the spring-loaded contact wipers and makes for easy access to cleaning the rivet board. Once cleaned, take just a few drops of 3 and 1 oil and smear on the rivets, this will make the unit step nice and snappy. Once done, re-assemble and make sure the contacts are sitting squarely on the rivets, (while the unit is sitting idle). The alternating relay under the playfield, (alternating this feature on the playfield back and forth), is driven by this unit. If the unit is NOT stepping at all, check the coil making sure it's good and is connected, then clean and check all switches on the 1-point relay in the head. There are 5 or so switches on this relay, 1 of them is to step up the 0-9 unit.

The 1's score reel appears sluggish probably due to grime build-up. Very common problem, particularly around the 9's digit. It will need to be taken apart and cleaned up. Don't let this task intimidate you. After sliding the score reel out of the housing, it's just 3 screws to remove the actual reel. There's a small printed board there to clean also. Make sure when re-assembling that the contact on the circular leaf switch is closest to the number 2 digit, (or you won't be matching on the right number at the end of the game). Also, be careful sliding the unit back into the housing from making contact with the backglass.

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from theoakade:

So a bare 6v fuse? Im confused. Theres a 7.5 amp fuse, 3 .5 amp fuses and 3 10amp fuses in the machine.
Should I just get a volt meter?

To check bulbs/sockets I use a jumper from a known 6 volt source, ie a lit lamp or the fuse for the 6v feed. You can quikly move jumper lamp to lamp and figure out the bad bulbs etc.

1 week later
#16 3 years ago

Hey, Theoakade.................No follow-up?

1 week later
#17 3 years ago
Quoted from Boatcat:

Hey, Theoakade.................No follow-up?

Hey! Been busy lately but I made an update video today. Things I've been working on...

1) Sanded, painted and sealed the head. It was getting super dry and brittle so I decided to repaint. I know some won't like the decision but it was necessary. Looks good tho.

2) Touched up backglass with paint, triple thick and a little duck tape. Glass should be protected forever.

3) Every light works except two in the score reel. Cleaned all sockets. Fixed the Last Ball light and a couple of others.

4) Lubricated all reels and wheels. No more gummed up 9s.

Things I still need to work on...

1) Special targets still do nothing when lit. Game is still set on dimes so Im not sure if the two are related. Id still like to keep it on the 10 cent setting tho. I like the idea.

2) 0-9 wheel still does not work on its own. The coil alternates the playfield but does not cycle numbers. When the game is over the coil does cycle numbers but not the playfield. Maybe the coil just isnt firing. I think I need more insight on what is supposed to happen while playing.

3) A switch at the top needs to be adjusted. Buzzes a bit too long.

4) Plastic drain piece needs to be bent back.

Umm. I think that's it. I posted video to show some play. Lemme know if Im missing something. I think the next step for me is to figure out whats up with the 0-9 wheel.

Cheers!

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#18 3 years ago

Hey, theoakade,

Upon watching your video, looks like you need to re-read the first 2 paragraphs of my post for fixes on the 0-9 unit and the special targets. I kind of spelled it out there to get you started on them.

To keep the game working on coin entry:..............Of the 3 switches on the credit unit, (in the head), I suggested you adjust, 1 switch will open when the credit reel reads "0" This will keep the game needing a coin to re-start. I suggested you close all 3 switches originally just to make things easy for you, but this will put the game on free-play.

As far as the illuminating lights behind the score................While the game is on, lower the panel of mechanical equipment in the head by swinging the top "L" shaped bar 90 degrees. It will rest on a bracket inside. You can reach in and twist the entire light bulb socket gently either way and the bulb will probably light, (after making sure your bulb is good). By doing this, you're actually cleaning dirt out from inside the socket.

#19 3 years ago

Ok. Were gonna work on the 0-9 unit next. Do the numbers actually cycle thru on the head? As you play, the numbers go thru 0-9 with each alternating one point?

And rotating the socket while the machine was on def helped. Made things easier. All lights working! Thanks again. Lemme tinker with 0-9 and Ill get back.

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#20 3 years ago

Hey, theoakade,

Yes.............The unit turns during the entire game with each 1-point switch made on the playfield. In the head, there are relays turning each reel, 1-point relay, 10-point relay, etc. On the 1-point relay, there should be 4-5 switches. 1 switch to energize the score reel, 1 switch to hold the relay's own coil in, (EOS switch on score reel), 1 switch in series to roll over 10's reel when 1's reel has reached "9", 1 switch to energize the 0-9 unit coil, and 1 switch that opens when this relay is energized to de-energize the trough gate coil, (under the playfield). Take a small tool and short each switch together 1 at a time and you will see each action happening individually. Don't forget to check the 0-9 unit coil and it's wires.

#21 3 years ago

Ok. Here is what I see on the 1PT relay.

TOP - 2 switches. Both appear normally open. The one on the right sparks withevery point so Im assuming thats the 1pt reel switch. Closing the other switch doesnt appear to do anything.

BOTTOM - 3 switches. Left is closed. Center and right are open. The center switch sparks after every 9 so I assume thats the 10PT carryover switch. Manually closing the right switch sets the 1PT reel in motion - Im guessing to 0. So Im assuming this is the restart/reset switch. Manually opening the left switch appears to do nothing.

Thoughts?

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#22 3 years ago

Hi theoakade +
I do not feel familiar with (old) (Gottlieb) 1-player-pins. To support the discussion: Here the places where the 4 Normally-Open Switches and the (one) Normally-Close Switch is shown in the schematic diagram. Greetings Rolf

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#23 3 years ago

Thanks. I do have the schematic too. But thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

#24 3 years ago

So if Im reading that correctly, the switch connected by the GR-YEL wire needs to be open for the 0-9 unit to work...?

#25 3 years ago

There is no reset switch on the 1-point relay. Rolf schematically spelled out what I already told you above, I'm not working with a schematic but not really needed here. The switch with the green-yellow wire is normally open, when closed, energizes the 0-9 unit coil.

As you can see, it's the only switch in the circuit to energize the 0-9 unit. If you're not getting any action when shorting the switch closed, again, check the coil and it's wiring.

#26 3 years ago

Geez, $100 is a great deal. Those colors on the play field look fantastic. How did you repair the face of the head? I have a Fun Land with the exact same issue. I was going to try to cut a new piece of 1/4" for the surround of the glass.

#27 3 years ago
Quoted from Playdium:

Geez, $100 is a great deal. Those colors on the play field look fantastic. How did you repair the face of the head? I have a Fun Land with the exact same issue. I was going to try to cut a new piece of 1/4" for the surround of the glass.

Glue, sand, paint, sand, paint, polyU. I think it looks great in person. The bottom panel was completely rotted outand dry. So theres no bottom at all right now. This will be my little signature/secret on this cab. Nobody will ever see it. Americana and the original colors call for this...

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#28 3 years ago
Quoted from Boatcat:

There is no reset switch on the 1-point relay. Rolf schematically spelled out what I already told you above, I'm not working with a schematic but not really needed here. The switch with the green-yellow wire is normally open, when closed, energizes the 0-9 unit coil.
As you can see, it's the only switch in the circuit to energize the 0-9 unit. If you're not getting any action when shorting the switch closed, again, check the coil and it's wiring.

Ok boatcat. Think it maybe time to focus on the 0-9 coil. Ill remove and clean. Wires look great. What in a coil could go wrong?

#29 3 years ago

theoakade,

On the 1-point relay, before touching anything, short out the switch with the green/yellow wire with a small tool or something during a game. It should energize just the 0-9 coil. All 1-point switches take a beating from use over the years so very common to have to clean these good if not working in normal operation. Since all match numbers and playfield lights are working, you shouldn't have to touch the 0-9 unit at all for now.

If the 0-9 unit coil doesn't look burned up, it may have an open winding, but this is NOT very common. More common to see a coil burned out, (from windings getting hot and shorting together). If the coil looks good, take a jumper wire and run it from the coil's green/yellow wire to the slate/white/red wire on the 1-point relay, then, manually push the plastic relay actuator in on the 1-point relay. If the unit still doesn't step, replace the 0-9 unit coil.

4 weeks later
#30 3 years ago

Hey Boatcat. Didn't wanna leave you hanging. I'm a teacher so back-to-school's been crazy. Moved the pinball to a buddy's house. Next month we're sandblasting all exterior metal and painting the rest of the cab.

As for the 0-9 unit problems, I will take closer look and do everything you said. I've also compared images of burned coils to good ones so I have a better understanding next time I inspect it. I think me and you should be in a good spot to make this 100% in the next month.

Will keep you updated buddy!

#31 3 years ago

Happy to help you out whenever you're ready, Theo!

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