Surprised Robin hasn't added his name to the list too
(Topic ID: 122176)
Linked Games
Predator
Skit-B Pinball, 2013
Topic Gallery
Seaside, CA
I followed up with my bank, paid through PayPal attached checking account. They have (as of today) assigned me a claim number, and I will have an investigator on the case as of tomorrow, with an expected competition within 3-5 business days. I asked how the process goes, and if I should expect contact from the claim investigator - they said that if they need more information that they'd contact me. Honestly, not too comforting to hear a decision might be made without ever even speaking to me, but I'm not sure what affect I could have on the outcome, as long as the notes I provided were diligently written into my claim. They then asked some more in depth questions this time around, and took note of my responses.
- have you received any benefit from the money sent to the seller? No
- have you asked to get a refund? Yes
- have you filed a claim with the police, or are you a part of a class action lawsuit? I said no, but that I thought that was the next set of steps being taken by the 250 individuals involved.
- will you testify if required? Yes
- is the information you said true? Yes
All of the above questions are to my best recollection, but they were positioned more formally, with an amount of legalese, and seemed to be read from my bank representative's computer screen.
Quoted from CaryCarmichael:I followed up with my bank, paid through PayPal attached checking account. They have (as of today) assigned me a claim number, and I will have an investigator on the case as of tomorrow, with an expected competition within 3-5 business days. I asked how the process goes, and if I should expect contact from the claim investigator - they said that if they need more information that they'd contact me. Honestly, not too comforting to hear a decision might be made without ever even speaking to me, but I'm not sure what affect I could have on the outcome, as long as the notes I provided were diligently written into my claim. They then asked some more in depth questions this time around, and took note of my responses.
- have you received any benefit from the money sent to the seller? No
- have you asked to get a refund? Yes
- have you filed a claim with the police, or are you a part of a class action lawsuit? I said no, but that I thought that was the next set of steps being taken by the 250 individuals involved.
- will you testify if required? Yes
- is the information you said true? Yes
All of the above questions are to my best recollection, but they were positioned more formally, with an amount of legalese, and seemed to be read from my bank representative's computer screen.
I'm pretty certain they will request additional information. My transaction is now being investigated as well and I just received a note in the mail requiring supportive documentation to support the evidence such as:
Purchase Description:
• Skit-B information
• Detailed Description of what was purchased
• When the order took place
• Proof of payment to Skit-B (Invoices, sales slips, breakdown of the charges by item and amount
Shipping Description:
• Agreed-upon delivery date and supportive documentation
• If the delivery was delayed, then the date of when the item was expected to be delivered
• Address the merchandise was to be shipped to
Additional Information:
• If the merchant filed Bankruptcy, show a detailed letter stating how and when I found out about the filing. Include copies of documentation
• Attempts to to resolve your dispute with the the Merchant(s) Including all dates, method of contact, and the merchants response(s) to the request.
I think what I most concerned about is most of us were left in the dark with Kevin's lack of communication by email, request for a refund. etc... What would be great is if we could create one central repository with a collection of data that everyone can put info about the case that would benefit everyone. There is so much information that printing 100's/1000 of pages would be overwhelming for anyone to achieve. I'm overwhelmed just thinking about it... Really sucks.
Hi Guys,
Just a quick update. The list is up to 82 and accounts for everyones PM's including 2 that I missed but are now recorded. Data entry is taking longer than I expected, several hours per night. It's worth every minute to put this doc together for everyone and I want to get it sent out as soon as we reach 100. Still missing a few emails so please check your PM's.
This has been a very emotional experience, from anger, disappointment, overall sadness to see so how many were affected. It's one thing to throw out a number like 250 pre-owners, it's another to data entry a pre-owner one at a time, know the $ amount invested and the location of a few from as far as the UK. Some orders were surprise gifts for their loved ones, others hoped to fulfill a dream theme Holy Grail to their lineup. Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts and stories, I hope we all come out on top of this so we can continue enjoying what we love most about this hobby.
Thanks,
Art
Almost $200,000 in this thread already. If you didn't write your info, I just added $3000. Might be a bit more than that.
Borsbeek
Quoted from Nibbles:^Did you guys pay by CC or direct bank transfer? And when did you send payment?
Mine was a direct bank transfer through PayPal on June 28th, 2014, which after reading the forum, doesn't leave me with the warm fuzzies that the result will be positive. I can at least say my bank is going through the motions with me.
Hey All,
First I am sorry that all of us are going through this nightmare, I myself included.
There has been a lot of different statements by many different people in the many forums but I wanted to ask if there in any concrete information from FOX or copies of any cease and desist type information that Kevin actually received?
Do any of us actually have proof that shows FOX has told Kevin that these games will not be made?
I am with you on that but why has it actually not been provided?
I do believe that there has to be something out there and we all could use this valuable information.
Quoted from loren3233:I am with you on that but why has it actually not been provided?
I do believe that there has to be something out there and we all could use this valuable information.
F'ing this ^. And with all the emails that have been saved, you could build an extremely strong case. If the AG truly cared, they would continue to assist in any way to help the people that are stuck in the BS. It's great they got their money back before the fire started, but there's still a lot of good people that were left in the burning building.
Quoted from DCfoodfreak:If they AG could provide that there would be proof of fraud
Only problem is the only "proof" AG has (I think) is based on their phone conversation with the IP lawyer at Fox. I know they recorded it, but if that was done surreptitiously, AND the Fox attorney was in a both-party-consent State, then that recording wouldn't be legal AND they would likely be unwilling to share it.
I know, I know, lots of guesses there, but that's what most of this is (absent of anything factual).
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:Think if they didn't say anything
lol, nothing would have been different than the situation everyone is in right now. So I'm glad they got out before shit hit the fan, no sweat off their backs apparently
bump.
A big thank you to everyone of you for all of the information you've shared.
Please make sure the OP has a valid email from you - - it's important.
Quoted from lowepg:Only problem is the only "proof" AG has (I think) is based on their phone conversation with the IP lawyer at Fox. I know they recorded it, but if that was done surreptitiously, AND the Fox attorney was in a both-party-consent State, then that recording wouldn't be legal AND they would likely be unwilling to share it.
I know, I know, lots of guesses there, but that's what most of this is (absent of anything factual).
Man if they did record that without permission from the IP gentleman they would be in some hot water too.
No luck with PayPal on my end
When you open a dispute in the Resolution Center, you must follow some
specific guidelines. We automatically close or defer cases that don't
follow these guidelines.
If you’re not satisfied, we encourage you to work directly with the seller
to resolve the problem (you’ll find their contact information on the
Transaction Details page). Most sellers welcome the opportunity to make
their buyers happy.
You have to open a dispute within the allotted timeframe. You opened your
dispute outside of the timeframe, so it was automatically closed.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Sincerely,
Protection Services
Quoted from hank527:No luck with PayPal on my end
When you open a dispute in the Resolution Center, you must follow some
specific guidelines. We automatically close or defer cases that don't
follow these guidelines.
If you’re not satisfied, we encourage you to work directly with the seller
to resolve the problem (you’ll find their contact information on the
Transaction Details page). Most sellers welcome the opportunity to make
their buyers happy.
You have to open a dispute within the allotted timeframe. You opened your
dispute outside of the timeframe, so it was automatically closed.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Sincerely,
Protection Services
Yeah. PayPal isn't going to help here.
Hey Guys,
I will be sending an update by email here late this evening. I'm still missing a few emails from those that have provided some info. I have checked all of my PM's and updated the list as of tonight. Please check to see if you received a PM request from me in the past 2 days.
Thank you,
Arthur
Quoted from rlslick:Hey Guys,
I will be sending an update by email here late this evening. I'm still missing a few emails from those that have provided some info. I have checked all of my PM's and updated the list as of tonight. Please check to see if you received a PM request from me in the past 2 days.
Thank you,
Arthur
Awesome effort mate, really appreciate all the info.
Quoted from loren3233:Do any of us actually have proof that shows FOX has told Kevin that these games will not be made?
Kevin himself said that the games won't be made in his last email. That's all the proof you need in terms of a Paypal refund. Proof of no license isn't going to make it any more likely that Paypal would issue a refund.
Hey Guys, your welcome... I will be checking my PM occasionally and to a few of you who have recently provided your Pre-order info, thank you...I will update and send you some info soon. There are a few who are working on next steps, until then, continue to work with your financial institution on getting a refund. As RobT mentioned, it is proof what Kevin said about games will no longer be made...period.
Game #110 paid $3000, filed a claim with my CCard company had to send emails and a written letter as to what transpired, waiting for a reply.
Just to update on my [lack of] progress with my bank. The person I got on the phone today (I love how it's also always a different story and line of logic) said that the non delivery because I used my linked checking account will most likely not succeed in this situation with PayPal. He said if it was with my Visa/MasterCard they'd have returned my money already. Then he decided the best opportunity I have to recover the funds is to file a fraud claim that the money was never suppose to have left my account, as it is harder for PayPal to deny such a claim; although the caveat is the clearing house 'association' limits fraud claims to within a specific time period, which this exceeds. Then he said I should still load a claim with PayPal, after researching what may be my best argument to take with them.
The best case is PayPal takes 90 days to respond and concedes to my bank. Worst case is still I'm a chump for sending money to Kevin.
Yuck.
Here's a link to their talk in 2012 at the Chicago expo.
http://www.pinballnews.com/shows/expo2012/predator.mp3
Absolute confirmation/announcement that:
4:30. 7:35. 11:26. Licensing has been acquired and paid for.
12:45. 13:24. Delivery of all machines will be all completed by 2014.
18:20. Art work will be approved by Fox before being finalized for production.
If you need to prepare evidence, I hope this helps.
Cheers.
Quoted from Enaud:Here's a link to their talk in 2012 at the Chicago expo
.......(snip)
Nice work Duane. Thanks for posting this! Definitely could come in handy.
Quoted from RobT:Kevin himself said that the games won't be made in his last email. That's all the proof you need in terms of a Paypal refund. Proof of no license isn't going to make it any more likely that Paypal would issue a refund.
Very true Rob but when a cc company asks for some proof that he did not have a license than I am going to ask the group to see if anyone actually has good evidence of it. CC company already has Kevin's email regarding games won't be made.
Quoted from loren3233:Very true Rob but when a cc company asks for some proof that he did not have a license than I am going to ask the group to see if anyone actually has good evidence of it. CC company already has Kevin's email regarding games won't be made.
I wonder if, in the course of a civil suit, someone could subpoena FOX for their licensing agreement with SkitB. If this doesn't even exist, I'd think FOX would reply quickly as such and that would be pretty damning "evidence"?
Quoted from lowepg:I wonder if, in the course of a civil suit, someone could subpoena FOX for their licensing agreement with SkitB. If this doesn't even exist, I'd think FOX would reply quickly as such and that would be pretty damning "evidence"?
If you are filing a lawsuit, it's against Kevin. You could simply require *him* to produce the license in discovery. If he doesn't...it would be precluded at trial and therefore presumed to not exist.
Calgary, AB
Quoted from Jcamm:Got my CC charge back $4750. All my CC needed was the last email Kevin sent stating he was going to issue refunds.
So CC issues you money, CC issues charge back to paypal, then what? All these charge backs add up and Paypal sues Kevin Kulek too? Is that how it will go? Just curious as someone has to be at the bottom of the money grab
Quoted from herbertbsharp:So CC issues you money, CC issues charge back to paypal, then what? All these charge backs add up and Paypal sues Kevin Kulek too? Is that how it will go? Just curious as someone has to be at the bottom of the money grab
yes, the acquirer of the transaction is on the hook for the chargeback funds... it is up to them to either retrieve the funds from the merchant (by whatever means they deem necessary), or write them off... the card issuer "gets the money" from the acquirer at that point, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE MERCHANT HAS FUNDS TO COVER IT OR NOT (capitalized for emphasis)...
i mentioned this earlier in this thread (edit: upon reflection, it was the other thread).... once the chargeback is successful (e.g. it's initiated, and the merchant can't/won't dispute it, and the issuing bank/cardholder is credited), as far as the cardholder and the issuing bank is concerned, the transaction literally never happened (other than the background book keeping to keep the bank in balance)... it is all on the merchant side (acquiring bank and merchant) at that point...
Quoted from spfxted:CC company gets it from PayPal if there is money in the account.
If not, they try to get it from Kevin. Then it goes to a collection agency.
If the money is big enough...then to court. (what my friend told me)
Wondering:
How could Kevin even process refunds now if he wanted to?
With all the various CC chargebacks in process, how would he know who had already been refunded (by their CC company) vs those who still needed refunds? If he refunded everyone, some would get double refunded at this point? Perhaps he gets a notice for a successful chargeback against his account?
Sana'a
Quoted from lowepg:Wondering:
How could Kevin even process refunds now if he wanted to?
With all the various CC chargebacks in process, how would he know who had already been refunded (by their CC company) vs those who still needed refunds? If he refunded everyone, some would get double refunded at this point? Perhaps he gets a notice for a successful chargeback against his account?
I'm sure Kevin's counsel has told him to hold off on any refunds until the courts make their ruling.
Quoted from lowepg:some would get double refunded at this point?
I would hope that if someone did in fact get a double refund, they would speak up immediately and restore some of my hope in the goodness of man so the 'plebs', like me, actually get a chance to get some money back from this Kevin Kulek Shit-show.
Quoted from Nibbles:I would hope that if someone did in fact get a double refund, they would speak up immediately and restore some of my hope in the goodness of man so the 'plebs', like me, actually get a chance to get some money back from this Kevin Kulek Shit-show.
Well I would hope that some of the preorder folks wouldn't also defraud paypal by holding on to funds that were refunded twice, that would make them no different than Kevin. Well once all the chargebacks go through im thinking whatever is left for the people that couldn't get chargebacks would be pennies on the dollar, just a guess though. Maybe a few hundred bucks, max at a grand.
My CC company has returned my $2750 but they are still waiting for a response from the merchant, Scat B (thanks for that name, VID. It fits quite well for Kevin & Co.). Kevin basically has another 2 weeks to respond or my CC company will close the case. I based my dispute on non-deliverance of the product.
Tried through PayPal but ran into the same roadblock others had, beyond claim filing date. I'm out the $250 unless Kevin refunds that. That $250 is my fee for the lesson to stay out of the pre-order pool.
Lesson learned.
Quoted from Half_Life:My CC company has returned my $2750 but they are still waiting for a response from the merchant, Scat B (thanks for that name, VID. It fits quite well for Kevin & Co.). Kevin basically has another 2 weeks to respond or my CC company will close the case. I based my dispute on non-deliverance of the product.
Tried through PayPal but ran into the same roadblock others had, beyond claim filing date. I'm out the $250 unless Kevin refunds that. That $250 is my fee for the lesson to stay out of the pre-order pool.
Lesson learned.
Very glad to hear that you got your money back (other than the initial $250.00)!
Who was your CC company? Do you have any recommendations that you can give to others in terms of successfully disputing the CC charge through paypal?
Quoted from spfxted:CC company gets it from PayPal if there is money in the account.
If not, they try to get it from Kevin. Then it goes to a collection agency.
If the money is big enough...then to court. (what my friend told me)
I bet Paypal has insurance for if they end up with losses.
Quoted from RobT:Very glad to hear that you got your money back (other than the initial $250.00)!
Thanks Rob! I am hopeful that others in this mess will get their money back as well.
Quoted from RobT:Who was your CC company? Do you have any recommendations that you can give to others in terms of successfully disputing the CC charge through paypal?
My CC company is Capital One. When I filed my dispute, I told them that the pinball machine was never delivered by the merchant. I gave them the exact date of when the charge was placed on my card along with the PayPal receipt number. I also told them the game was to be delivered by December 31st, 2014. I gave them the additional information about this being 250 machines and the fiasco involving the license issue.
While the money has been returned to my account, the chargeback will not be ultimately successful until the case is closed. I was told that delivery of the pinball machine would be the only way for my CC company to take the credit back out of my account. Since that is not going to happen, all I have to do is wait for the end date for Kevin to respond. We all know he won't respond and we won't get our machines.
Quoted from Half_Life:Thanks Rob! I am hopeful that others in this mess will get their money back as well.
My CC company is Capital One. When I filed my dispute, I told them that the pinball machine was never delivered by the merchant. I gave them the exact date of when the charge was placed on my card along with the PayPal receipt number. I also told them the game was to be delivered by December 31st, 2014. I gave them the additional information about this being 250 machines and the fiasco involving the license issue.
While the money has been returned to my account, the chargeback will not be ultimately successful until the case is closed. I was told that delivery of the pinball machine would be the only way for my CC company to take the credit back out of my account. Since that is not going to happen, all I have to do is wait for the end date for Kevin to respond. We all know he won't respond and we won't get our machines.
Excellent!
And where were you in terms of how long ago the CC charge was made prior to disputing it?
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