(Topic ID: 269538)

Attention! Don't get scammed!


By robin

46 days ago



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  • 88 posts
  • 61 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 days ago by LTG
  • Topic is favorited by 15 Pinsiders
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    There are 88 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
    #51 34 days ago

    I also had a new member inquire about a machine I have for sale. They asked about shipping, then said they found a shipper. They also asked about accepting payment from PayPal for the machine which I responded no. I suppose it could be legit. It makes you wonder.

    #53 33 days ago

    So, someone replied to one of my want ads for some parts. I had a friendly exchange with him and he gave me an Oregon address. Fair enough, he agreed to pay the amount after I gave him my PayPal address and said "ok, sounds good." 2 days went by and I didn't get the payment. This is well under $100, not a lot of money. I checked up over the weekend and I get a response saying he "didn't have time" all weekend to send the money. I get a PM from a different person saying something like "I have your PayPal info and want to confirm the parts are still available" (not an exact quote). I asked him who he was as I've never spoke to him before and the first person didn't tell me anything about a second person contacting me. They both have Canadian addresses, which I thought was odd.

    The second guy then replies with a 10 sentence paragraph and gets defensive over me asking a simple question, asking me to "kindly" let him know if the parts are still for sale. He did confirm my information to me and the address and user name of the first person. One of the two people hasn't made a single post on the forum. I then let them both know I wasn't comfortable doing the sale. Smells of a scam to me.

    #54 33 days ago
    Quoted from Pinball_Postal:

    I also had a new member inquire about a machine I have for sale. They asked about shipping, then said they found a shipper. They also asked about accepting payment from PayPal for the machine which I responded no. I suppose it could be legit. It makes you wonder.

    To be fair, I myself am a fairly new pinside member and I arranged for shipping and paid via paypal with a deposit and then a final payment once the pin was picked up by STI. I don't think wanting to use paypal instantly makes the interested buyer a scammer, but its hard to find a good method for transaction that protects both the buyer and seller.

    #55 33 days ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    simple question, asking me to "kindly" let him know if the parts are still for sale. Smells of a scam to me.

    Ya think? "Kindly" = "scam" 100 percent of the time.

    "God Bless" too. Even holy rollers don't put that stuff in ecommerce emails.

    #56 32 days ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Ya think? "Kindly" = "scam" 100 percent of the time.
    "God Bless" too. Even holy rollers don't put that stuff in ecommerce emails.

    Agreed as to the latter, but not the former. I utilize "kindly" frequently in lieu of "please" and I can't even find Nigeria on a map.

    #57 32 days ago
    Quoted from ZNET:

    Agreed as to the latter, but not the former. I utilize "kindly" frequently in lieu of "please" and I can't even find Nigeria on a map.

    You should kindly stop utilizing it so frequently and get a map of Nigeria.

    #58 32 days ago
    Quoted from PinRob:

    You should kindly stop utilizing it so frequently and get a map of Nigeria.

    All kidding aside about geography, I do not find the use of the word "kindly" to be a dispositive indicia of fraud, absent other markers. The word is simply too neutral and too common in business parlance to raise a cautionary flag, for me.

    In contrast, CrazyLevy is spot-on as to the "blessed" references. The fraudsters either think that invoking religion elevates their authenticity in general or else it's more insidious, i.e. religious persons are perceived as more gullible, so the use is designed to identify and exploit those recipients of mass scam emails.

    #60 31 days ago

    I don’t think it’s implied that all new users can’t be trusted, only to simply do your due diligence with everyone, especially new users that don’t have an established reputation. When I first signed up I immediately had a pin to sell after only a couple weeks if even that. I was contacted and spoke to a few people and someone agreed to make a 7 hour drive for the pin I had as it was one they really wanted. They took the leap of faith with me and they walked away happy. On my part I took a chance with PayPal friends and family, I did this only after the user provided references and I was able to confirm this was a good buyer. It ended up working out for me and him as I got cash and he got a good example of a game he wanted. Was even kind enough to leave me positive feedback so I have some kind of reputation now.

    #61 30 days ago
    Quoted from robin:

    Wow, some great ideas, thanks all!
    Building on these ideas, one of the easiest things to implement would be address verification. It would be another level of verification (e.g. a blue checkmark) where we ensure someones address. What we have now, the black V icon, would remain the basic verification (stops most Nigerian scammers because they don't want to shell out $5 bucks to get verified).
    So how would mail address verification work? It would involve Pinside sending a postcard (automated via one of the online sending APIs) containing a code. You log in to Pinside and enter that code. Boom! Address verified.
    Then I thought, postcards are fairly easy to steal, even if that's a federal offense (I mean, so is scamming people out of thousands of dollars, right?). I could also send out a Pinside mug. It's too big for your letterbox and you need to open the door to accept it. I would enter the code on the packing slip. Or print it on the mug, lol.
    I estimate this could be done for around $10 (I would need to check, but it looks to be doable, at least for US adresses).
    Still not 100%, but it's pretty darn close. Right? Or am I missing something obvious?

    I have no use for a mug (don't drink coffee or anything like it), but a water bottle would be great

    I've bought 3 pins in my fairly short pinball life, and one of them was via PinSide. The first was Craigslist, and it was a nervous experience for me. It was about an hour away, so I brought cash and a gun (conceal and carry permit here in TX). Anyway, when I met the guy and saw the pin, I know it was legit. I made up some excuse about having to go out to my truck, locked the gun up, and the transaction proceeded. The second with my neighbor, so no issue there. The third was about a 5 hour drive and the pin was advertised here in Pinside. I had several chats, requested a phone number and address, which he provided. After looking up his address and having a couple of phone calls with him, I felt it was legit. I brought cash and my gun again, left the cash in the truck until he answered the door and I met him, then everything went down as smoothly as could be.

    While I made what I thought were good decisions, I've learned a lot from the advice given here which I will integrate into my next buying process. I'm truly amazed at the level some will go to in order to steal from others. Another thing we can all do is when this or any other fraud happens is take the time to prosecute them to the fullest extend of the law. Maybe this will help the next guy think twice before doing the same thing. If not, there's always the Pinside Fight Club (see the basement topics).

    #63 29 days ago

    Hello all! Should I consider myself a new member since I'm coming back from a two-year absence? Lol... Anyway I just wanted to say I agree about the verification system (I think the mug idea is cool) I've always been a "cash on the glass" type of person but there are times when you find the perfect pin and its clean across the country I like the idea of the seller feeling more at ease when they see a crazy Texan that's been "verified" messaging them about buying and shipping.

    #64 25 days ago
    Quoted from R_B85360:

    I want to add a new line here to say thank you to all who have posted. I'm new to this community and want to say thank you all for an open arms welcome all around the site. This thread truly has made me a better buyer online and getting the valuable knowledge of the do's and don'ts has been quite eye opening!

    Always be careful and vet your sellers. These pins are big money items, as much as a car in some cases, and it’s crucial to trust your seller. I don’t mind paying a little bit more to dealers I trust and that are honest.

    #65 25 days ago

    I think the postcard idea is a great one and people serious about buying/selling shouldn't have too much trouble coughing up a couple bucks for a one time verification like that. Just be thoughtful about how to best allow address changes after someone has already verified in that way...

    Like was mentioned before, the chance of a scammer using a fake address AND watching that address for incoming mail AND stealing said mail before the owner gets it or sees them doing so is probably REALLY low. Only way I could see someone scamming the system on that is through a change of address so that the mail is forwarded to their actual address instead of the fake one. But there are mail/postage types that will not be allowed to be forwarded so maybe something to consider as well.

    More work for you, Robin, but maybe developing something like a "Trust Score/Meter" which aggregates the various things that may help indicate that a buyer/seller is likely to be trustworthy into a single viewable bar or number would be helpful and tie that info into wanted/for sale ads Like looking at a credit score meter.... Not a foolproof indicator hat someone won't stop paying bills, but a useful tool for determining the risk of them doing so. Similar to an achievement score, but for factors that you would consider important in establishing actual identity characteristics. Age of account, sold/paid fees via pinside, participation, feedbac from reputable members, address verification, etc. Not foolproof but, with some guidance, could be a useful tool in helping people understand whether they should even consider a long distance transaction when cash on the glass can't be done. Doesn't preclude people from using an escrow service or doing their own research, but could at least help people quickly shut down a potential sale gone wrong before it even gets started if the initial risk looks high.

    22
    #66 25 days ago
    Quoted from cmack750:

    I think the postcard idea is a great one and people serious about buying/selling shouldn't have too much trouble coughing up a couple bucks for a one time verification like that. Just be thoughtful about how to best allow address changes after someone has already verified in that way...
    Like was mentioned before, the chance of a scammer using a fake address AND watching that address for incoming mail AND stealing said mail before the owner gets it or sees them doing so is probably REALLY low. Only way I could see someone scamming the system on that is through a change of address so that the mail is forwarded to their actual address instead of the fake one. But there are mail/postage types that will not be allowed to be forwarded so maybe something to consider as well.
    More work for you, Robin, but maybe developing something like a "Trust Score/Meter" which aggregates the various things that may help indicate that a buyer/seller is likely to be trustworthy into a single viewable bar or number would be helpful and tie that info into wanted/for sale ads Like looking at a credit score meter.... Not a foolproof indicator hat someone won't stop paying bills, but a useful tool for determining the risk of them doing so. Similar to an achievement score, but for factors that you would consider important in establishing actual identity characteristics. Age of account, sold/paid fees via pinside, participation, feedbac from reputable members, address verification, etc. Not foolproof but, with some guidance, could be a useful tool in helping people understand whether they should even consider a long distance transaction when cash on the glass can't be done. Doesn't preclude people from using an escrow service or doing their own research, but could at least help people quickly shut down a potential sale gone wrong before it even gets started if the initial risk looks high.

    Thanks for the GREAT feedback/ideas. Very helpful. This is definitely the direction I'm hoping to take this. I just started testing the mail verification (Pinside sends you a letter containing a code). A letter is even safer because it can not be read without opening. The plan is to integrate this mechanism as a part of the Pinside+ subscriptions I'm working (or optionally offer it for a small onetime fee, for those who do not wish to subscribe).

    The test letter just arrived...

    Besides address verification and the ideas mentioned in this thread, I'm also looking into the possibilities of a Pinside escrow service, where Pinside would hold funds until an actual game arrives. A panel of volunteer Pinsiders could anonymously judge any disputes.

    The possibilities are plentiful, the ultimate goal is to make Pi nside the safest place for buying and selling (shipped) pinball machines!

    Meanwhile, I'm doing final testing on some other exciting new Pinside features - that's coming very soon too!

    Busy times at PinsideHQ

    #67 25 days ago
    Quoted from robin:

    Besides address verification and the ideas mentioned in this thread, I'm also looking into the possibilities of a Pinside escrow service, where Pinside would hold funds until an actual game arrives. A panel of volunteer Pinsiders could anonymously judge any disputes.

    That’s a really interesting concept and I’m curious to see where you go with this.
    I belong to several trade organizations within my industry that have similar systems in play for dispute resolution.
    Disputes go to arbitration and both parties plead their case before a panel of their peers. This is legal and binding.
    I.E. by agreeing to go to arbitration regardless if you win or lose the descion made by the panel is final and you forfeit the right to legal action by going through this process.
    The organizations obviously have a code of ethics and bylaws that you need to adhere to as a dealer. Normally this is not an issue and arbitration’s only happen when people skirt the rules. For the most part self regulation with an industry is a good thing as long as there are well worded rules, guidelines and a code of ethics outlining how one is to conduct themselves in a transaction.

    #68 25 days ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    You can google verify, and then change the address to whatever you want once you are verified. I did that myself as i don’t have mail sent to my pinball shop.

    If Robin creates a verification mechanism the address verification should definitely be "invalidated" if the address is changed (perhaps warning the user that they are about to clear the verification). Google should be doing that for that matter.

    #69 24 days ago

    I may have missed it but I haven't seen anything on who or how we report as a scammer from someone on pinside.

    I am unfortunately in that position now where an etransfer was sent to someone with seemingly good selling reviews on pinside for a few back glasses on marketplace. It's been over a month now with several missed delivery dates, many bs stories, and even a fake tracking number sent.

    #70 23 days ago
    Quoted from robin:

    Thanks for the GREAT feedback/ideas. Very helpful. This is definitely the direction I'm hoping to take this. I just started testing the mail verification (Pinside sends you a letter containing a code). A letter is even safer because it can not be read without opening. The plan is to integrate this mechanism as a part of the Pinside+ subscriptions I'm working (or optionally offer it for a small onetime fee, for those who do not wish to subscribe).
    [quoted image]
    Besides address verification and the ideas mentioned in this thread, I'm also looking into the possibilities of a Pinside escrow service, where Pinside would hold funds until an actual game arrives. A panel of volunteer Pinsiders could anonymously judge any disputes.
    The possibilities are plentiful, the ultimate goal is to make Pi nside the safest place for buying and selling (shipped) pinball machines!
    Meanwhile, I'm doing final testing on some other exciting new Pinside features - that's coming very soon too!
    Busy times at PinsideHQ

    The escrow idea is a good one. I used to take advantage of escrow services when buying/selling web domain names. As escrow service provides both parties confidence that the transaction will be handled safely and securely, and recourse if it is not.

    #71 23 days ago
    Quoted from vonclod:

    I may have missed it but I haven't seen anything on who or how we report as a scammer from someone on pinside.

    You can start a moderator feedback thread and include their username along with any other relevant details concerning the situation.

    #72 18 days ago

    I prefer escrow.com for buying and selling remotely. It provides a bullet proof platform of protection for both sides of the transaction. Yes, it costs extra but it’s totally worth it. Even better than cash on the glass unless said cash and glass are in a very public situation where you are confident to a degree that you don’t feel like you need to bring a gun.

    I kind of like the address verification idea, but would like to see a mechanism wherein anyone who is trying to verify someone’s address needs to input the address themselves (after having gotten it from the person they are trying to verify). The system could then tell them if that is the correct address or not. This would allow everyone to maintain address anonymity/control over who knows where they live. The last thing anyone wants is a publicly viewable “come and get ‘em” list of good addresses to burglarize. This includes the pin on the Pinside map. Most folks I know use phony pin markers on the Pinside map simply to avoid unwanted interactions with potential thugs. I’m sure Robin has already considered this, but worth mentioning just to be sure.

    Thank you to Robin and everyone else who strives to make this a safer, more functional and enjoyable space.

    #73 12 days ago
    Quoted from Doppler17:

    An idea for behind the scenes for sellers would be to send In a GPS pin drop at the location of the machine/their current location. Screen shot with current time and date stamp. Most here probably have a smart phone with that technology in it. The admin could track this if there happened to be any issues with said seller.

    It is easy to fake the GPS data though. Apps exist to "set" where you are for the GPS.

    #74 10 days ago

    I have been looking for an old, non working cab for a while now and I found a guy on Craig's List that was moving and was giving one away in Lexington, Ky (I live just north of Columbus, Ohio). I sent him an email and got no response for a week. Then he responds and tell me he has already move to Utah. He put me in contact with his his movers who offered to deliver the machine to my house for $400. Neither the seller or movers could type a correct sentence. Is this a common scam? I'm more of an arcade machine guy but I wanted to try my hand at pinball.

    #75 10 days ago
    Quoted from BadMonkeyDJ:

    I have been looking for an old, non working cab for a while now and I found a guy on Craig's List that was moving and was giving one away in Lexington, Ky (I live just north of Columbus, Ohio). I sent him an email and got no response for a week. Then he responds and tell me he has already move to Utah. He put me in contact with his his movers who offered to deliver the machine to my house for $400. Neither the seller or movers could type a correct sentence. Is this a common scam? I'm more of an arcade machine guy but I wanted to try my hand at pinball.

    Definitely stop contact. It smells like a scam a mile away.

    Sounds like the reverse of the cashier's check scam. The movers are non existent. A credible business will be happy to call you and discuss the process. As well as someone with a game that they want to sell.

    But definitely walk away.

    #76 10 days ago
    Quoted from BadMonkeyDJ:

    I have been looking for an old, non working cab for a while now and I found a guy on Craig's List that was moving and was giving one away in Lexington, Ky (I live just north of Columbus, Ohio). I sent him an email and got no response for a week. Then he responds and tell me he has already move to Utah. He put me in contact with his his movers who offered to deliver the machine to my house for $400. Neither the seller or movers could type a correct sentence. Is this a common scam? I'm more of an arcade machine guy but I wanted to try my hand at pinball.

    It's the most recent craigslist scam going around that's surfaced in the past few weeks, unfortunately. I hope nobody has been taken by it.

    #77 9 days ago
    Quoted from BadMonkeyDJ:

    I have been looking for an old, non working cab for a while now and I found a guy on Craig's List that was moving and was giving one away in Lexington, Ky (I live just north of Columbus, Ohio). I sent him an email and got no response for a week. Then he responds and tell me he has already move to Utah. He put me in contact with his his movers who offered to deliver the machine to my house for $400. Neither the seller or movers could type a correct sentence. Is this a common scam? I'm more of an arcade machine guy but I wanted to try my hand at pinball.

    I strongly advise you read through this entire thread about "Don't Get Scammed."
    As a new member to this community I have used the words of advice herein to my advantage and personally will say has stopped me from getting scammed (again). I appreciate all who have commented on here. All the inputs are extremely valuable. I doubly strongly recommend looking at Vid1900 link that Robin made initially while creating this topic. This is beyond well put together. My personal thanks to Vid1900 for your time and dedication to creating that for everyone. Lastly, your particular Craiglist case screams scam. Hopefully you walked away! Best wishes!

    #78 9 days ago
    Quoted from BadMonkeyDJ:

    he responds and tell me he has already move to Utah.

    Definitely a scam, fun isn't allowed here.

    #79 9 days ago
    Quoted from Pinball_Postal:

    I also had a new member inquire about a machine I have for sale. They asked about shipping, then said they found a shipper. They also asked about accepting payment from PayPal for the machine which I responded no. I suppose it could be legit. It makes you wonder.

    And accounts that are made within hours of you posting a want ad for a machine .

    #80 9 days ago
    Quoted from BadMonkeyDJ:

    I have been looking for an old, non working cab for a while now and I found a guy on Craig's List that was moving and was giving one away in Lexington, Ky (I live just north of Columbus, Ohio). I sent him an email and got no response for a week. Then he responds and tell me he has already move to Utah. He put me in contact with his his movers who offered to deliver the machine to my house for $400. Neither the seller or movers could type a correct sentence. Is this a common scam? I'm more of an arcade machine guy but I wanted to try my hand at pinball.

    Someone over on KLOV posted this same thing. They always seem to move to utah? i think they unfortunately fell for it.

    #81 9 days ago

    Funny how that guy in Kentucky had to list on dozens of CLs nationwide just to give a machine away!

    #82 9 days ago

    That's why I stick to cash on the glass as much as I can. I'm willing to drive quite a ways to purchse one. I've been in the hobby quite a while and have dealt with scammers several times. Mostly Mr. Pinball but CL has their fair share. I don't call them out do they can get better. If you have to do it long distance, do like others have said and find a pinsider nearby to check it. Haven't been had yet. It's good to be skeptical until you know otherwise, just don't be a jerk doing it. Awesome thread!

    #83 8 days ago
    Quoted from robin:

    ...Besides address verification and the ideas mentioned in this thread, I'm also looking into the possibilities of a Pinside escrow service...

    Adding to this comment: How about having a local Pinsider (to the seller) go to examine a pin for a long distance buyer? Maybe verify the PF condition, confirms it plays, switch/light test, etc. Take any pictures the buyer requests. For consistency, maybe even have a Pinside 'inspection form' that needs to be filled out by the inspector.

    A possible down side to this is the seller and 'inspector' might be best buds, and doesn't really do a good job. This could be somewhat negated by having the inspector be scored over a period of time by the buyers, building trust based on unbiased reviews. And the seller can not see the inspectors review. After a number of unbiased inspections that received excellent comments by the buyer, the inspector could become a 'Certified Pin Inspector' or some other appropriate title.

    Make it a $50 to $100 charge (depending on the price of the pin) that the inspector receives. Pinside gets a small cut. Sure beats diving 5 hrs. only to find out the pin isn't what is advertised. Charging the seller is an incentive to advertise correctly and would take the burden off the buyer when the pin clearly isn't as advertised (and the inspector wouldn't get a good review).

    Plenty of possible variations of this to fine tune the process.

    #84 7 days ago
    Quoted from mbwalker:

    Adding to this comment: How about having a local Pinsider (to the seller) go to examine a pin for a long distance buyer? Maybe verify the PF condition, confirms it plays, switch/light test, etc. Take any pictures the buyer requests.

    While this would be a great idea, real world not so much. If you’re not the guy with the money, why deal with them? Pictures would be fine or even a video. Of course having folks come over to play would be horrifying!

    #85 7 days ago
    Quoted from mbwalker:

    Adding to this comment: How about having a local Pinsider (to the seller) go to examine a pin for a long distance buyer? Maybe verify the PF condition, confirms it plays, switch/light test, etc. Take any pictures the buyer requests. For consistency, maybe even have a Pinside 'inspection form' that needs to be filled out by the inspector.
    A possible down side to this is the seller and 'inspector' might be best buds, and doesn't really do a good job. This could be somewhat negated by having the inspector be scored over a period of time by the buyers, building trust based on unbiased reviews. And the seller can not see the inspectors review. After a number of unbiased inspections that received excellent comments by the buyer, the inspector could become a 'Certified Pin Inspector' or some other appropriate title.
    Make it a $50 to $100 charge (depending on the price of the pin) that the inspector receives. Pinside gets a small cut. Sure beats diving 5 hrs. only to find out the pin isn't what is advertised. Charging the seller is an incentive to advertise correctly and would take the burden off the buyer when the pin clearly isn't as advertised (and the inspector wouldn't get a good review).
    Plenty of possible variations of this to fine tune the process.

    You could turn it into a "home inspector" business where pinside transactions are done and inspectors build a reputation. For a fee... the inspector reviews the game condition objectively. If done well, the inspector gets reviews from buyer and seller.

    But doesnt help solve the problem of getting a box of rocks delivered.

    Conceivably the inspector could check ids and a list of failed transaction id could be amassed

    #86 6 days ago
    Quoted from BadMonkeyDJ:

    I have been looking for an old, non working cab for a while now and I found a guy on Craig's List that was moving and was giving one away in Lexington, Ky (I live just north of Columbus, Ohio). I sent him an email and got no response for a week. Then he responds and tell me he has already move to Utah. He put me in contact with his his movers who offered to deliver the machine to my house for $400. Neither the seller or movers could type a correct sentence. Is this a common scam? I'm more of an arcade machine guy but I wanted to try my hand at pinball.

    Yes, this scam is becoming common now... I ran into this with a guy from CL selling from an NC location, and then received an email a few days later claiming he's moved to Colorado and I'd have to cover moving expenses, blah, blah, blah.

    #87 6 days ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    ...But doesnt help solve the problem of getting a box of rocks delivered...

    Don't disagree about that, Flynn. The thought was more about the pin being advertised correctly for a long distance transaction, where it is difficult for the buyer to see the pin in person.

    #88 6 days ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    But doesnt help solve the problem of getting a box of rocks delivered.

    Bingo.

    Many years ago a man on RGP offered to inspect a game for a person that would need it shipped to him. Inspected it. Gave all the good and bad. The seller did promise to shop the game before shipping.

    The seller didn't shop it.

    The buyer attacked the man that inspected it on RGP and all heck broke loose.

    I personally wouldn't do it. Too much to go wrong.
    LTG : )

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