they cant even get MMr produced and out the door so even IF AFMr is the next title it appears it will be years before you can get one.

For price, MMr was unique since that was where originals were selling for 11-12k. AFM can still be found in lpayers condition for ~1/2 that. They need to be below Stern Premium pricing if they want to compete/sell.

5500 -6000 at max. There is almost no tech in AFM and no reason for it to be more than that.

Aside form that it seems AFM are readily found currently...

funny part is that they will miss out on lots of sales if they try to shoot for 8k.

Honestly it is all a moot point since they have made such a debackle of the MMr thing anyway. The lies and deception combined with scapegoating and inability to actually get them out the door have hurt the whole remake thing. What is the reality of when AFMr would even be availabel for purchase? 2 years from now?

I have not been paying attention, but how many MMr are actually delivered at this point?

That is cool. Would help them greatly if they actually had them built and ready for delivery.

Honestly, it is a huge pass unless it is competitive with Premium/ RZ/ Heighway pricepoint.

WAY TOO MANY other options at that price point! I will always spend on NEW innovation rather than a remake with no innovation for a company that continues to hoard licenses and not get much done by way of new parts since they took all IPB assets. They have to make an extra good deal for me to give them money.

At this point I see a negative to giving them funds. If they were actually doing more with those funds to push pinball forward (or at least get more reproduciton parts out the door) then I woudl give them a pass.

unfortunately ANYTHING even remotely associated with Rick can not be trusted! Heck I could post 5 things just from pinside that he promised over a year ago and NOTHING has come from it. The man lies more than anyone I know!

yes, but he would be the licensee/or for anything they do.

He is so full of it. it is crazy. How many games has he promised parts for 12, 18, 24 months ago and NOTHING? CGC unfortunately can only be trusted as much as the guy holding the cookie jar.

Aside form that, Rick has blamed them for most of the ongoing issues with MMr. It seems even he thinks they can not be trusted.

At the rate they are going, 9 more titles will take them over 20 years to produce.

They want everyone to think everything is in jeopardy of being remade at anytime. Their whole ploy is to try and kill the market on used pins. Probably also a large part of the reason that so few parts are getting reproduced. Sad Sad Sad man that is still attempting to control so much of the hobby we love and money grab for all he can.

First point worth noting it that WOOLY never folded. They did EXACTLY as they promised. They opened upt he idea of making their game IF they could get 100 people committed by a specific date. When they did not get 100 people committed they did EXACTLY what they said and gave everyone back 100% of the deposit! They never folded. They never flaked. They never took money and did not deliver or hold that money for years with interest.

Unfortunately in the past 2 years, part production has gone down and not up. The real problem I have with the currnet PPS model is the lies and promises to deliver on a multitude of products that never come around. How many times have they abused the community for market research, NOS parts on 'loan', and promises of new parts coming and then ZILCH? They are using social games to try and undermine the hobby as a whole.

Actually square 1 would be better. License holders that are actually making products themselves and have a vested interest in how customers are treated and products getting done in a reasonable amount of time. Right now the entire business model is built on selling license rights for other to remake stuff but then no concern with real quality or it customers just get scammed (WH2O topper anyone?; some of the poor quality backglasses in the past year). Square 1 would mean the actual possibility that someone will come in and build more quality parts.

My concern is for the hobby as a whole. I dont need to be in on or own a MMr to understand than a vaccuum of this amount of $ out of the hobby is overall just a cash grab and an overall negative. I would rather see people buy uncoded but new games from Stern as they are reinvesting in pinball for the long term. PPS has this whole vocal stance that "NO GAME IS SAFE and WE WILL REMAKE THEM ALL" just because he wants to undermine the seconday market values and volume of sales on all 'possible' remake games. He wants that instability and wants the money going to him/his business only it appears. Sure it is good business, but all at teh cost of the hobby in the long term.

A healthy secondary market is a big part of the resurgance of our hobby the past 10 years.

I am not a business and I bring value when I refurb a game. The FEW games I have actually sold, some I have made money on and others I have lost (I think of it more of got my money out since there is value in playing/ owning the game even if I sell it for less), but that is really apples and oranges to PPS. If it is the same to you, then to me the largest difference is all my money goes straight back into supporting/promoting the hobby.

What happened... get tired of Ice verbally beating you up in TBL so came over here

I am not sure where you keep pulling this 15-20k number from??? Most nice/good condition MM were selling for 11-12k prior to MMr.
Those that sold at 15k plus were professionally restored and nice (still WAY nicer than what we have seen out of the remakes).

Those that sold MM back in the height of secondary market were not cash grabbing. They were selling at current market value of a limited collectible. They most likely took any money they made on the sale an put it right back into the hobby by buying other games.

I support Stern (even with uncoded junk) ahead of this complete lack of innovation remake junk. If they were going to remake the desirable titles it would have been nice to at least see some innovation and mechanical improvements instead of cheaping out with drivers mounted with troll mech trhough holes, lol. Junk and poor design combined with a main desire to take the money and run.

MMr may be good for Stern in the way of making 1k per game to build them but not as good as them making new games and making all the profit.

I am glad you are happy with your new MMr! That is genuinely great. However, I still can be happy for you on an individual level and disagree with giving funds to a company that lies to their customers with any examples on a regular basis and takes the cash and funnels it out of the hobby.

It still amazes me that we have people going on 2? years of being paid in full for MMr and they still dont have their game!

proof of poor design?

ummmm.... Anyone can tell you that mounting boards with regularly used coils firing directly through the holes cut in the boards is a bad design. Exposed boards is a bad design. There is a reason we dont see this in games over the past 30 years

sorry, my poor typing...

I meant " I would rather support Stern"

I buy Stern games to put on route because it is the only option out there for regularly interval new games at a reasonable price. Decisions for route purchases are VERY different than if I will buy for myself.

That said, Stern will get my money for new innovation way before PPS ever sees a dime for a remake.

It is really a lesser of 2 evils

those are light boards... They dont have any high failure components aside from the pins for connectors which commonly need to be reflowed and are a great example of how you should NOT put boards arounf heavy vibration and coil dust mechs.

MMr is a really poor design and it was done to try and cheap out on production and assembly cost.

I dont know of ANY Sterns with coils actually firing in the middle of game specific boards. Examples please.

From what we have seen with spike, there are multiple non game specific boards set to the side and in regions of the pf. No mechs going through these, nothing game specific about them, and they are readily interchangeable with a few dip switch changes if you have one of the handful of correct node boards.

From what I can see these are not even remotely similar designs.

Stern has attempted to do something to make it easier to replace a board and made sure the nodes are small enough that they dont have mechs pounding them about.

It isn't but they have told people it is on the list of possible remakes just to try and have an impact on any secondary market.