(Topic ID: 192072)

Attack From Mars Remake (AFMr) Owners Club

By Pin_Guy

3 years ago

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  • 614 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 hours ago by Mr_Tantrum
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26 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

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Post #1 PinGuy's links to unboxing and SOL potential issue. Posted by Pin_Guy (3 years ago)

Post #5 SOL protector issue Posted by Pin_Guy (3 years ago)

Post #73 LED info Posted by stpcore (3 years ago)

Post #145 Cliffy install info Posted by evh347 (3 years ago)

Post #149 Firmware 1.0.0 Posted by Pin_Guy (3 years ago)

Post #189 info on using AFM cliffys Posted by GorillaBiscuits (3 years ago)

Post #357 Topper connector issue Posted by LTG (3 years ago)

Post #366 Image of Cliffy addition to scoop. Posted by sparechange1974 (3 years ago)

Post #368 Cliffy install info Posted by sparechange1974 (3 years ago)

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#159 3 years ago
Quoted from Deadpin:

Wonder how much that shortens the life of the LEDs cranking them all the way up.....

It's just the strobe, which doesn't happen all that often.

#161 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

It sld go off when ship is hit and when it blows up also.

Ah that's right. It should still last a very long time...

#193 3 years ago

OK folks. I want to put this whole strobe thing to rest. I just played a game in the dark, with the strobe at Max brightness on my new LE. It was so bright and so disorienting that I’m actually dizzy right now. I’m going back to default for my own health

It’s literally the brightest thing I’ve ever experienced and strobe multiball was so disorienting that I basically drained all of the balls within seconds it was so bright.

The setting is there if you need it, but I really cannot imagine how you’d ever want it that bright!


#195 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Thats what makes it awesome..... if it isnt bright u can't see the balls.

It’s crazy. Fun mode.

#199 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Still have one question.... does the backbox gi only go out during strobe mb? Or does it go out every time the playfield gi goes out ?

I’ll need to check and pay a little more attention to it tomorrow.


#200 3 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

Any news on LE's shipping? Put my deposit on an LE from Game Room Guys back in April and was told it would ship by June.. obviously that didn't work out lol.. but wondering when I should be getting the thing..

Shipping now! Folks received their first shipments this week.

#205 3 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

Thats great news.. but is it for match serials or random (like mine) thanks!

I am not 100% sure to be honest. My buddy and mine both received games this week, and both were matching serial numbers. I believe Doug had commented earlier in this thread that serial numbers were first, but I'm not 100% sure of that.


#259 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Still have one question.... does the backbox gi only go out during strobe mb? Or does it go out every time the playfield gi goes out ?

It’s a setting. By default it’s ON, but you can have it match the GI.

1 week later
#353 3 years ago
Quoted from rrosenhouse:

Just set up my AFM-R LE #75 this morning. Packing was perfect. Very impressed with the build quality and feel.
I do have one minor issue... The ball launch fails to make it to the rollover lanes at least 50% of the time. I have played with the ball launch coil strength, but could not get it to fire the ball to the lanes consistently.
Could it be the steepness of the playfield? What else should I be looking at?

Playfield steepness is one thing. Also, is the ball well aligned with the plunger assembly that fires the ball up the shooter lane?


1 week later
#417 3 years ago
Quoted from pinchamp:

Having so much fun. Squeezing in a game between family time whenever I can. Seems my CGC firmware is 1.0 beta so I guess I should upgrade that?

Yes. You get the current bits and control over the strobe and the diverter.

#420 3 years ago
Quoted from pinchamp:

Micro USB... I think the only one I have is in my camera with 500 family pics on it. Not sure how I am gonna pull off an update. Need to get a new one I guess?

Very inexpensive for an 8gb microSD card. I think I paid about $9 for it on Amazon.


#484 3 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Just got my LE, set it up, and balls are not loading into shooter lane. Flippers aren't working. I'm lost!
The game is on, music and lights going, and the target bank keeps going up and down and the gates keep clicking.
Did I miss something on the install? I plugged it in, loaded balls...
Help please!

If the target bank is cycling it sounds like the game is not reading some switches. I would take the glass off and get into switch edge test and let us know if the game is able to read the playfield and cabinet switches and report back.


#497 3 years ago
Quoted from Deadpin:

What is up with that right lane? It's a bitch....

The outlines on both the original and the remake are absolutely brutal. It's a game that really needs you to nudge well.


#539 3 years ago

What flipper delay? Flippers feel strong and fast.

#569 3 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Sorry, if you flip over your lockdown bar you see a rubber seal on the bottom of it, this seal is historically called a beer seal as it's primary function was to keep spilled beer out of the machine.
Now if you look at the previous post by SuperPinball, you can see the 2 brass screws on the lockdown rail, these screws are there for adjusting the height of the lockdown bar in its locked position; I do not believe this was adjusted at all on my machine when it left the factory. Couple this with a glass channel that is very smooth and a little wide and you have a loose piece of glass, by tightening the lockdown bar the rubber seal will press against the glass and keep it from moving. Over time, as you remove and re-insert the glass, the edges of the glass will scrap the inside of the channel, this scraping will cause additional friction on the glass and keep it from wanting to slide out on its own; when I first got my machine, the glass would want to slide right out from its own weight, after being removed around 10 times, the glass now stays put when I remove the lockdown bar.

I wanted to thank you for this simple and effective advice. The glass rattle was something that I was wondering what the best way to resolve was and this advice was it. Simple and a minute later the game is silent. Thank you!

#607 3 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Tighten or loosen? Having same issue.

Tighten (for me, at least).

#630 3 years ago

True OCD is CDO to put the letters in their proper order.

#722 3 years ago
Quoted from TechnicalSteam:

Ordered my AFMRLE several months back. Still waiting. Growing really concerned with news of Chicago Coin rolling out some MMRs.
When I talk to my distributor he basically tells me that he Chicago Coin isn't really communicating any estimated time lines. I thought they were
going to make all of the LE's and move on to MMRs afterwards.
Guess there are couple other guys who are also patiently waiting for their AFMRLEs from my (GREAT) distributor. Just wish these Manufacturers had a better handle on their capacity. By now they should be able to tell you. I cranked out 50 games last week. I will crank out 50 games this week. That's 200 games in a month. I have 500 pre orders and your # in the list. We should have that game to you around __.

Check out this thread:


Doug from CGC has been communicating timelines in that thread and all LEs should be produced in October and remaining through Christmas. Looks like the plan is to catch up on MMR and then finish the AFMLEs before the end of the year.

It's worth the wait!


#736 3 years ago
Quoted from Blakester:

Set up #188 LE yesterday. After about an hour of play, has started launching balls by itself, reads "Tilt," groans and shuts down. Won't play at all. Anyone encountered this?

Put the game into switch test and see if you are able to test the switches and note which ones register when you test and which ones don’t.

2 weeks later
#871 3 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

I think I should go buy a lottery ticket... Played one game of MM and got to BFTK (but failed) and then moved over to AFM for one game and finished RTU for the first time!

OMG you're a monster. I got 5 billion once and felt like a king.

3 weeks later
#992 3 years ago

The drive transistors are through hole on both MMr and AFMr. It does sound like a shorted transistor that's blowing the fuse.

1 week later
#1056 3 years ago
Quoted from TechnicalSteam:

Getting royally pissed at Chicago Coin and how the treat their customers. I've been waiting over 7 months now for my LE. Dealer keeps telling me Chicago Coin wont give them a ship date. Starting to feel scammed. No promise of delivery date yet.
Is there someone at Chicago Coin to contact to make sure I'm not getting scammed.

They made half the LEs and then did a run of MMR and are now again working on AFM. You’re just in the back half of the LEs. Doug Skor at CGC is good people. I assure you this isn’t a scam.

4 weeks later
#1347 3 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Anti-rattle tape or a strip if thin cardboard in the slot seems to work.

Anti-rattle tape absolutely works wonders.

#1384 3 years ago

1000 LEs.

#1416 3 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

I've been making some minor adjustments and it is playing better (and I would now consider it "playable").
While I have purchased many NIB games, and recognize that things can move around during shipping etc, there are NUMEROUS posters on here with the same issue, complaining about the auto-launcher not making the orbit, and its poor alignment.
So thanks, but shit like this should be tested and tweaked at the factory before being received in peoples homes.
One offs are going to happen. This is nothing short of being poorly designed, or poorly put together.
Fortunately, it appears that it can be corrected with some patience and maybe a little luck.

I would suggest that you open a ticket with CGC outlining the issues you’re seeing and dealing with in the hopes that they can be addressed in an ongoing manner.

They have shipped a good number of games and there have been very few issues reported here. Feels like normal pinball to me, tweaking is always needed.

#1421 3 years ago

It’s the hardest game in my collection but it’s also the game I forgive the fastest.

#1534 3 years ago

Warranty (not warrenty)

#1579 3 years ago
Quoted from markp99:

Huh? I did not think Dirty Pool was implemented in AFMr.

It is. It’s the same Williams code.

#1631 3 years ago

Hi folks,

Please open support tickets to communicate with CGC on issues with your games. That’s the best way to make them aware of issues.


#1690 3 years ago
Quoted from sofgwhat:

#0454 has landed. Topper is awesome, had some minor issue CGC has been all over. One question, anyone know what this little clear plastic piece is for? It was in the coin box.

That’s the flipper gap spacer gauge. It’s handy when you have to rebuild your flippers and reset the gap between the flipper and the top of the bushing. Stash it away; you don’t need it for a while...

#1718 3 years ago
Quoted from zpinman370:

Hi All - I am looking to purchase the LE and unfortunately there are none of the AFMr in my area to actually play. I currently have MET and AC/DC. I was going to purchase an AS for Xmas but then I saw the AFMr and thought it would be different and a better buy. Looking for some feedback before I drop 10K

But with confidence. It’s just marvelous pinball. So good!

#1797 3 years ago
Quoted from abagwell:

So Pin_Guy, you said you can hold the left flipper and super skill shot all day and it never has an issue getting all the way around the upper orbit? Seems like this issue started to occur around the "middle" run of these machines, like something got off over time at the factory as they built them.

I have never experienced this and I do that skill shot on every ball.

#1849 3 years ago
Quoted from abagwell:

What # is yours?

0289 but I was in the early batches of LEs

#1915 3 years ago
Quoted from Veith:

Yeah, thats what I thought, but no go. Someone forgot to put it in there. No worries, I am sure they will send me one.

It’s a standard computer power cable; you should be able to get it almost anywhere, or borrow it from something in your house temporarily.

#1944 3 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

I've been wondering, what happens when 2 LEDs burn out? Is it possible to replace the LEDs using a soldering iron, or does the whole PCB need to be replaced for certain LED groups? I have not looked at it closely yet, but am curious to find out how replacing LEDs has been engineered.

Each LED is actually 3 sub LEDs. If one of the 3 burn out, the remaining 2 brighten up to compensate.

#1946 3 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

Ok, what if the last one burns out too due to a bad batch of LEDs which does happen?

Perfect, I'll try that tonight!

You have a couple options:

The non-technical option is to replace the board. Or find someone who works on SMD parts and replace all three. The LEDs are commonly available and inexpensive and would take moments to replace by a skilled technician with the right tools.

#1950 3 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

Oh, they are surface mount too Any idea what size SMD package? Is it possible to solder them by hand or is a microscope required? I'm thinking the way the LED is PWM'd to emulate an older style bulb may wear out the LED much faster than if just left on at a constant voltage which is how they are tested I think.

The insert LEDs are surface mount. The GI are in sockets. I need to look at the schematic. They aren’t small like most SMD parts, there are a few small insert boards if you want to take a peek at one. You can do it by hand with the right tip.

#1975 3 years ago

The PF number is not supposed to match.

#2070 3 years ago

Be very careful. It wasn’t on AFM, but I hammered out a post and took a bunch of clear with it :-/

#2097 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I went with self adhesive felt under saucer. Works like a charm and takes 1 minute to install

Got a picture?

#2128 3 years ago

Hopefully it’s just a fuse.

#2206 3 years ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

No, But I think I have finally got what was causing my issue. After getting the alignment vertically with the plunger on the ball (by Bending slightly on the bracket), I was still getting an erratic ball launch (ball seemed to just wobble off the top of the shooter ramp). I removed the metal ramp at the end of the shooter lane (yes the one with the rivets). I determined that my ball wasn't hitting the rivets it was jumping too high off of that metal ramp. My ramp has a small crease about three quarters up where the ramp goes from an angle to flat. That crease was acting like a speed bump making the ball jump off the ramp instead of rolling off causing the erratic ball behavior entering the top of the playfield. I just smoothed that out with counter bend (opposite way as the crease)
Now the ball rolls off the ramp like should when its shot. IMHO I would try this before redrilling any holes and repositioning that ramp. My balls are launching correctly now at high setting. Thread 1866

Yes; do not re-drill or move that ramp. It’s in the correct position. Good work on the bend.

#2247 3 years ago

Lots of speculation here. Best to wait for CGC to do their due dliegnce and report back.

#2255 3 years ago

That seems worthy of a ticket to CGC to ensure that the fix they’re implementing takes that into account.

#2319 3 years ago
Quoted from Miknan:

Suppose to get mine Wed. It’s been cold, cold , cold here... 6 degrees now. When I get it how long you do you normally wait for it to get to room temp before turning it on?

I would let it aclimitze until the metal parts don’t feel super cold anymore.

#2336 3 years ago

I have always thought games and value a little differently. I don’t buy them as investments, I buy them to enjoy them. If and when I sell games, the value lost (if it’s lost) is easily recouped by my own personal enjoyment of the game while I had it. And I have a rule to sell a game in as good or better condition than I received it in; I have sold games for no profit after putting in tons of work and parts into them; it’s part of the idea of helping to preserve pinball by making sure the games are well taken care of.

For AFM, I bought the LE because I thought the overall package, lighting and color would be more fun than a Classic edition. I am happy with my game; as hard as it is to say this (as all future looking statements are prone to revision), if I had to own only one game, it would be AFM.


#2339 3 years ago

You also do not have to defend your choices! You bought the LE because you wanted to and that’s enough

#2344 3 years ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Hi Marc, so based on your comments, can I assume you would have no problem if the cool topper was sold to SE owners? That's really how some of the chatter started. Like you, I buy games to enjoy them and don't consider them investments...

It wouldn’t bother me personally. But I understand that others don’t share my opinions on the matter.

#2350 3 years ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

It bothers me when people that choose to purchase an LE are made to feel guilty for buying what they want, and can afford.
Why this stuff continually comes up blows my mind. Limited should be limited, period. Good grief.....

Really, I’m totally neutral on this stuff. I just want people to love and enjoy their games; that’s really what I care about these days.

#2352 3 years ago

New topic.

I have never made the 5-way combo

I am just not that good of a player it seems! Never ruled the universe either. One day, but it’s why I keep pressing start. Love this game!

#2373 3 years ago
Quoted from huo:

Is it possible to set the original dots on afmrle?

I do not believe so, no.

#2393 3 years ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

you can turn colourisation off in the CGC menu - maybe that does it?

Haven’t tried that. Good suggestion; I’ll try when I get home.

#2396 3 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

Cool, thanks.
Another question: Those LEDs are soldered directly onto the PCB right? LEDs often fail in 'batches' so even if there are 3 LEDs running at 20%, if 1 goes, there is a chance all 3 will, and others on the game. I'm super-curious to find out exactly what the strategy is in replacing LEDs on remakes. I see PICs and other uCs being shipped to the customers, but will a full PCB need to be shipped if LEDs go out? Again, having 2 LEDs boost their power to make up for 1 failed LED in the group of 3 will not help, as often LEDs burn out due to manufacturing issues and not a 'faulty' single LED. The most important issue though is in the long run, the LEDs will expire at the same rate, so again, having 2 make up for 1 going out won't help, all LEDs will need to be replaced... This to me is a design issue that has not been cleared up, maybe because it IS an major issue and there is no good answer? Scott over at TNA made all his LEDs modular and replaceable. I've asked CGC with no answer.

The LEDs are surface mount soldered to the board. Don’t overthink this; lots of technicians in the world who can easily replace a surface mount component. If in the unlikely event that all theee burn out, buy new LEDs and have a qualified tech replace them.

#2407 3 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

It's good to know it's not unique to the remakes, but I wish there was a better solution other than referring people to a qualified technician. I want something that I can keep and work on for years to come, and thought I had found that in the remakes. The good news is my attention is on my TNA which is all about being modular, but still would be into the remakes if there was not this flaw in the design. I'm not worried about the PCB or Pics as they pop right in, but it's just a nagging, unnecessary concern. I tried hard to be a remake collector.

Why are you so concerned about this aspect? It’s not like owners are having issues with LEDs that need replacement. These are long life LEDs and should not need replacement in home use.

#2410 3 years ago

I didn’t say it wasn’t a legitimate question. I feel that the risk is extremely low. I have my game in home use. These LEDs will likely last for decades. I don’t think that the LEDs are going to be an issue. There are FETs and other common through hole components that I feel will be an issue with this game (and all pinball games) in the long term because it’s Pinball and things happen!

I am sorry you felt I was doubting your question. Absolutely not the case. I am doubting that it’s a serious issue now, or that it would be hard to rectify later. It’s a beautiful game and it you wanted an AFM, this is a really great way to get one, especially with the LE upgrades.

I really should do a thread on how to SM solder; it’s not harder than through hole. But most folks around here feel that it is.


#2412 3 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

I'm curious, what do you base the lifespan on? There are so many factors involved, but most important I think is how the LEDs are driven. What if the glowing simulation actually puts more strain on the LEDs? For example, a bad PWM can kill flippers coils if not done right? I'm just wondering and asking and that is what I meant about not legitimate, or do not be concerned... I just like to base my findings on facts and have a tough time understanding how these LEDs won't be a problem. I realize the design cannot be changed, and that the LEDs will likely take years to fail in most cases, unless there was a bad batch.

Fair questions. I simply cannot answer the testing aspect of it. Basing it only on a few factors, one of them being this lamp design is shared with MMR which has been robust and has been out for a number of years now. I don’t work for CGC and don’t see every issue, but I do see a lot on the forums and the lamps haven’t been an issue. Maybe it will be; but usually issues start to pop up as the games get quantity and that hasn’t happened at all with lamps.

#2414 3 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

Excellent points. I guess I just need to get my head around the fact that they are not bulbs and that for this design, not easily replaceable but like you said, other stuff will fail too, and I personally can fix a surface mount LED just as easily as a FET or other component, so I'm realizing this is not going to be an issue for ME, so I'm changing my mind I was putting myself in the shoes of someone who cannot fix it themselves and seeing it as a negative, but in reality, if many fail, I will be a plus for me really since I can whip out the small soldering tip and magnifying glass and fix it in 10 seconds. If there are used ones around in 15 years with burnt LEDs, I'll get a deal and fix them myself. Also, if newer/better LEDs come out in let say 10 years, I can upgrade them myself etc, so all good.

That’s a super good way to think about it. I just think you’ll love the game, it’s bright and beautiful and they just did an awesome job on it, plus AFM is perfect pinball.


#2416 3 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

It's my first pinball, and I really do love it. I play each day... I'm asking all this because I want to get more over the long run and the LED design was temporarily keeping me away from getting a MMr in Feb when they do a small batch. I know I sound like Cartman from South Park about the LEDs, but just was 'curious, kay'.

I will respect your authority MMR is fantastic as well; had mine since early 2015 when they bagan to ship and haven’t had anything big come up other than a flipper coil bracket bolt being loose which took two seconds to fix and my damsel shot needed adjustment after 2 years.

#2448 3 years ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Mine didn't. The cool emblem on the apron is certification.

Correct. The apron is the LE credentials.

#2459 3 years ago

I’m doing some science on the ball launch shot. Taking a bunch of pictures, slow motion videos and measurements. I’ll follow up when I have something to share, but I really want to figure this out!

#2462 3 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Only issue I had was the the high voltage button was not making contact with the bracket. Fixed it in 10 seconds.
However, and I am not sure where we would classify this issue. But I do have clear peeling around the lock hole and the drain.
Pretty upsetting to have a new game start chipping after less than 100 games!

Get some Mylar and lay it down over the spots to stop the chipping.

#2464 3 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Even got two drain protectors to cover both sides.

That works too! I love Cliffy but those protectors change the gameplay. I am more OK with wear than I am with the gameplay being changed.

#2488 3 years ago
Quoted from WizWiggy:

Something happened to our AFMRLE and hoping someone might be able to help. Suddenly, our machine has numerous problems. One of these problems is all the insert lights on the playfield are out. Looking underneath at the playfield board, there are 2 leds out that should be on; CR2: VCC, normally on AND CR8: +5V, normally on.
The other issue as seen in the picture is at the pinball controller board CR9 which is normally off, but is blinking red.
Long story short, does anyone know the proper reset procedure for the pinball controller board? I tried just pressing it but it rebooted with same issues. There is also a power button on the board too. Wanted to check here before contacting CGC tomorrow.

Get a ticket started with CGC now. It’s possible that the lack of 5V is due to a fuse.

#2491 3 years ago

Is the game booting to the DMD; can you start a game?


#2493 3 years ago

Lift the playfield (remove the balls) and take note of the status of the lights on the board underneath the game. It sounds like the logical portions of the board are out; all the CPU control

#2499 3 years ago
Quoted from WizWiggy:

They were checked while in the machine, didn't think it mattered?

It matters. You need to pull them out of the circuit to properly test them.

#2514 3 years ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

I don't understand why they just don't make it available (the part for the software change) online for anyone that has the AFMr to request. It should be simple, everyone that has sent in their warranty card is eligible for the software upgrade.

The last communication stated that it was under test and not yet available. Maybe that’s why?

#2541 3 years ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

Not very close when PPS has 300 of them in stock....

Fake news.

#2544 3 years ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

And if you think it's Fake News Then I am waiting for your research....

Call Rick and ask him how many LEs he has in stock.

#2548 3 years ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

And you think he will tell you the truth? OK

Yup. You may not like Rick or think he has a snuggly personality, but he is a straight shooter.

#2581 3 years ago
Quoted from PolePosition:

I was looking over my game, just enjoying its beauty, and noticed this odd post sticking up not attached to anything. Its just to left of the left kickout, circled in blue in my photo. Am I missing a piece?

You are not missing a piece. That post is there to prevent ball traps.

#2587 3 years ago
Quoted from Ed209:

I purchased my AFMr via PPS but haven't heard a peep about the flipper issue. Should I be contacting them to make sure I'm getting the updated PIC?


#2592 3 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

So just need the PIC 2.0, and that will sort out flipper and topper issues?

Yes. Everyone needs the flipper fix. Not everyone needs the Topper, but it’s the same code either way so you’re covered.

#2596 3 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Is the board in the backbox?

I wil be doing an install for a close friend who needs the chip to fix his topper issues. As soon as his comes in, I can take some pictures for a how-to.

#2627 3 years ago
Quoted from PinLen83:

From what I've read, and asked multiple times, you should be able to now adjust your flippers without being in fear of destroying the board. If you adjust a couple notches down, you should see a noticeable difference

My understanding is that with PIC 2.0, you can set the game up however you want; aka, they fixed the bug.

#2674 3 years ago

Folks should contact CGC for support and options.

#2689 3 years ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

Welcome to the owner's thread!

Welcome to pinball?

#2711 3 years ago
Quoted from Newbie979:

Have a couple questions wonder if any of you guys can help me out with.
(1) Is it hard to get video mode on this machine? Had the game for about week now and not one video mode. And I love video mode.
(2) Are you having a lot of air balls with you machine? Notice I get a lot.
And (3) Any of y’all having trouble losing ball coming down left rail . Mine sometimes pops out at bottom and I lose ball. So damn frustrating.
I’m a newbie so Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Contact your dictributor. There is an upgraded chip for the game that fixes an issue related to coil strength. It’s a chip you replace in the backbox of the machine. Once installed, you can lower the power of the flippers down to -4 or -5 in the CGC menu that should reduce the air balls and ramp fly offs.

You’re asking for a PIC 2.0 replacement chip.

#2727 3 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

To recap. If you're not the original owner, you're screwed as of this moment.
Contacted distributor. Denied.
Contacted CGC. Crickets.
Just released CGC facebook post says CGC will not be sending PIC chips out directly.
Still hoping CGC does the right thing, but not looking good for non-original owners still in the machine's warranty period. This silent recall aside, CGC absolutely has the worst warranty policy for second and third owners of their very expensive machines. JJP and even Stern are better.

You need to take a deep breath as this will all work out.

CGC was at the European show this week and is likely traveling back to the US now. Give them a minute to respond, please.

#2733 3 years ago
Quoted from eagleeyemma:

So my wife was vacuuming and she accidentally hit the cab. What's you guys suggestions on how to fix this.

Ouch. It’s hard to tell from that image; is the decal ripped?

#2742 3 years ago
Quoted from Vino:

Wow, Is anyone else wondering if the vacuum did that or did his wife finally build an atomic blaster?

Or the big-o-beam misfired.

#2764 3 years ago

It’s also a color thing. The dark blue on my SW makes them stand out. The colors on AFM are different and show it less. And they have the exact same dimples.

#2772 3 years ago
Quoted from Newbie979:

Causing the ball to get stuck in ramp. Unless it goes in the ramp 100 miles hr it’s getting stuck messing up my game

CGC should sort you out quickly. Sorry it happened.

#2782 3 years ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Curious...were your originals natural or restored? Any intimation that originals suffer from the same quality control problems is just off target. Hopefully you are talking about a very narrow CQ issue.
I've been playing my HEP AFM all week and can't believe how much better it plays than the AFMr I owned. Ball zips around the PF with amazing strength with 0 airballs or balls falling off wireforms. 7 years since HEP restored it...thousands of plays...no PF damage with minimal protection, no wireform breakage, feels much more solid in general. Most importantly, it *plays* much better...dramatic difference in flipper feel. The AFMr flippers felt awful to me...nothing like B/W flippers.
I don't begrudge remake advocates, but any notion that remakes are inherently better than originals because they are "newer" with modern tech haven't played a finely-tuned original.

I don’t think you can or should compare a factory game to one restored and dialed in by one of the greatest restoration people in the hobby. It’s not a comment on CGC or their quality, far from it. I just don’t think that you can say that they should be the same.

#2791 3 years ago
Quoted from snaroff:

I'm not saying they should be the same. What I'm saying is if someone is in the market, they shouldn't assume newer is always better. That's all. Hopefully, that's not a controversial statement!
There are MANY talented restorers. HEP might be one of the best known, but there are a significant number of restored AFM's that rock.
I love what CGC is trying to do with AFMr (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/afmr-an-le-that-feels-like-an-le), however they need to step up their attention to detail and QA. ANY company that decides to remake a classic game is going to be compared with the original!

You are so controversial

Every game is different; and you get the AFM that you can and you enjoy it.

#2803 3 years ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

I have a low play original also that plays completely different. I would love to know why more air balls on the remakes. Same parts etc should play the same. Unless the remade parts aren’t exactly the same. The remakes are beautiful band interesting light shows.

Because the coils are a little too powerful with the default settings in my opinion. When you get and install the 2.0 PIC, turn the flippers down a little and it will play a lot better.

#2810 3 years ago
Quoted from Vyzer2:

Most of my airballs (besides flippers being too strong) are hitting the drop target under the mothership. Sometimes the rebound from hitting the drop target will send the ball inches into the air. Is there a setting for that drop target or is just due to flippers being too strong?

Due to the flippers being too strong. Once dialed back, this stops.

#2821 3 years ago

It just looks a little stuck. If I was you, I’d take it apart and clean the face of the translite and the glass and put it back together and see if that helps.


#2841 3 years ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Ron does gorgeous work, but it has little to do with the chipping issues. I don't think it's fair to expect the CGC's CC process to compete with Ron, however chipping after 50 games is really unfortunate.
It's possible to have a cost effective CC that doesn't chip! CGC and JJP seem to have more CC chipping issues than Stern. I've owned many Stern pins and haven't had chipping issues. Not saying there aren't examples of Stern PF's chipping, but my experience has been good.
Ron's process can cost $700-$1000, and that's quite reasonable given the time and attention to detail. If this level of detail is what you seek, I'm sure you can find a restored original for not much more than AFMr costs. Here is a fairly recent FS post: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-custom-restored-attack-from-mars-must-see.


A factory clear does != Ron’s clear; it’s just not a thing to expect from ANY factory made playfield.

AFM has two places where wear occurs, the scoop and the saucer. Whether or not this is happening faster on the remake is tangential to the fact that nearly ALL original machines have significant wear in those two spots. If you want those parts of your game to show no wear, install a Cliffy. Otherwise, play the snot out of your game, rule the universe and have a blast doing it. Playfields are available and should you chose to go that route, have Ron clear your replacement PF and swap it in. Node based games have less wiring, are more modular and are quite a bit easier to swap should you need to go that route.


#2848 3 years ago
Quoted from snaroff:

The originals suffered wear after thousands of plays. Chipping after 50 games is just odd, and I'm surprised you think it's tangential. From my perspective, chipping/damage has cropped up much more over the past year with some NIB pins.

Maybe orthigonal is a better word for it. I don’t know why some remakes chip anc others don’t. Could be due to flipper strength and balls flying around the game? Unclear.

#2850 3 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Stern uses multiple vendors. I'm more of the mind that some are better than others at the clearcoating process prep.

That very well may be true for Stern, but in the case of AFM, CGC made (some/most/all) the originals and all of the new ones. Materials may have changed, process may have changed. It’s still pinball and it’s still gloriously fun.

#2854 3 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

But how much more glorious would it be if the clear coat was actually done better? I own both remakes and I absolutely love playing both of them. But there is something disheartening about knowing how quickly the chipping is happening. It almost makes me feel that these will not stand the test of time.
For me it creates a sense of doubt that may hold me back from buying the next remake. Maybe I will look for a restored original that I know will hold up for years to come.

My buddy has an original AFM that had spent years on location. The SOL hole is blown out; chipped down to the wood. It doesn’t look as good as my AFMr. But it plays like a perfect AFM. His game is no better than “players” condition; but it plays perfectly.

Chipping cc doesn’t make the game less fun to play. I don’t buy to collect and resell, I but to play and have fun. Certainly to each their own.


#2858 3 years ago

Time will tell.

#2877 3 years ago
Quoted from Azmodeus:

This has been my number one pick for my next purchase. But I started having second thoughts.
It was because everyone is so good on this game it's starting to tire me.
But it's is still my number one pick. If I don't like owning it I will just sell it later. It's a great game. I wish I could afford more.
I still Hate that everyone is so good on it. It's a little rediculous. I guess I just need to get better, myself.

Get the game; you’re going to love it!

#2887 3 years ago
Quoted from Newbie979:

So here I am again with another problem with my AFMR LE machine. When I play and get into attack mode when I get 2nd or 3rd hit on saucer it puts me into lock ball or if I need the 3rd ball at the time into multiball. What is could be causing this? Anybody else having this problem. Seems like this machine is giving me more problems then enjoyment lately. Please help. I want to play a real damn game on this machine.


Attack mode is when the shield is down? So, you’re saying that when you hit the drop target that the game thinks that the ball is locked?

Sounds like there’s a switch adjustment issue down there. I would look at the area around the underside near the saucer and see if anything looks out of place. Make sure connectors are snug, etc.

#2890 3 years ago
Quoted from Newbie979:

Yeah that’s exactly what’s happening. I’ll look but this is my first ever machine and I’m sure I won’t know what I’m looking at. Let’s see how this goes....

We will help you. And this is pinball. Stuff like this will happen. Be zen. Be zen. Be zen. It will get fixed

#2892 3 years ago

Switch levels should show you the whole matrix and let you know what switches are being hit.

#2899 3 years ago
Quoted from Newbie979:

Both of my screws are snug not at all loose. Still having same problem. So frustrating

If you’re frustrated, I would open a support ticket with Chicago Gaming on their website and work with Lloyd on the issue. It’s most certainly a switch issue.

#2920 3 years ago
Quoted from Slugmeister:

So any consensus on the desired flipper setting with the 2.0 chip.

I worked with a close friend who had a topper issue and got PIC 2.0 as a remedy and we landed on -4 as having the right balance of ramp reach and a lack of air balls.

#2975 3 years ago
Quoted from Miknan:

This might sound stupid but my jet bumpers don't work upon initial launch. You'll do the skill shot then will hit them without popping and dribble down. But after that any shot that puts it back up there they work just fine. I thought maybe it was suppose to be disabled for the first part but I guess not. Is there a setting for that?

Hmm. That’s a head scratcher. I would open a ticket with CGC and see if they can help troubleshoot.

#2982 3 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

Would the ground not just attract a spark to one of the chips even if it's grounded through the power supply?
I need to remember to use my static guard wrist band when I work on it, as I completely unplug mine when working on it...

You won’t harm anything by having it unplugged. It’s just overkill.

#2989 3 years ago
Quoted from kapsreiter:

@ Lloyd
Do you know why CGC has put the driver board back in the backbox?
did they had problems with MMR ?
all others are going the way to less cables and de-centralized boards
greetings from austria

The other boards back there got lonely.

#2994 3 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

When we install PIC 2.0, does this affect high score settings?

As you turn the flippers down to -4, and you have less air balls, scores will probably go up

#2999 3 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

I thought my metallic saucers were going to be metal... but realize metallic does not necessarily mean made of metal... are they supposed to be plastic?

Yes. Like the original.

#3003 3 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

I have not had time to look at my package yet... Do I just power down, put on my wrist-static-band, pull the old Pic and push in the new one?

Yes. That’s all there is to it.

#3008 3 years ago
Quoted from flipper73:

what are the changes/ improvements version 2.0 compared to 1.0?

The flipper power settings actually work now. Not only is each negative integer a huge drop in power, it also won’t blow your board if you previously had it on -20.

Try -4 to start.

#3011 3 years ago
Quoted from jmagla:

Pic 2 fitted, have to say the old pic was uncomfortably tight to get out, but once out pic 2 was very easy to fit.
I tried - 4 for flipper strength but have to say, flippers seemed a bit weak, I've got it at - 2 at the moment. Maybe I just need to get used to the reduced strength for a while. Thanks to Pinball Heaven in the UK and of course CGC for sending the fix out.

Agree that -4 from default feels crazy different. I tried to compare my other WPC games and —4 felt consistent across my pins.

#3022 3 years ago
Quoted from abagwell:

The Pic 2.0 had nothing to do with the launch issue from my understanding, have you performed CGC fix regarding bending the steel exit ramp from the shooter lane that seems to be resolving the launch problems?

The PIC is not related to this. If you’re having ball launch issues, contact CGC for support.

#3028 3 years ago
Quoted from Newbie979:

Forgot the main thing it starting doing after the pic. When I start a game the ball don’t get put in the launch lane. It’s takes like 3 min for the ball to get out in launch lane and then launched. Never happened before this pic 2.0. The machine starts setting off everything like a ball is stuck in the playfield and finally it throws a ball in lane so I can launch. Frustrating!

OK — let’s do some real honest to goodness troubleshooting. Put all of the settings in the CGC menu for coil strength back to default and put the 1.0 PIC back in. Does the problem persist? If so, has nothing to do with 2.0. If it does, than this is an interesting issue you’ll need to report to CGC. I’ve now installed this on 2 machines and not experienced this.


#3035 3 years ago

Mine came yesterday as well. Very happy with -4. No air balls and can easily hit every shot in the game.

#3052 3 years ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

This a late October build under lights in doors. Look at the orange is faded white and the “grain” many are talking about is turning into planking. The plastics on the printing is cracking too. I have bought both nib LE remakes but no one can’t say something is going on here. My 20 plus year orginal still is very orange. We all crushed Stern on ghostbuster the Churchill (Chicago gaming) made the playfeild. The inks from the silkscreen must not have UV protectors in it as the no fade anywhere else.

Have you contacted GCG for help on this? My PF doesn’t look like yours, and neither do the two friends that also have LEs.

#3055 3 years ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

This isn’t mine. It is a standard remake not a LE.

Whoever owns it should contact GCG. The playfields are the same between versions.

#3058 3 years ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

Be interesting as I don’t think fading is covered under any warranty.

I am looking at the straitions on the clear; the fading is something else that I can’t see well in your picture.

#3089 3 years ago

I would contact CGC. They rarely check Pinside, so best to contact them through the help system.

#3099 3 years ago

I don’t think you need plastic protectors. You can easily buy plastics in sets and individual pieces.

#3110 3 years ago
Quoted from abagwell:

Newbie to working on machines so I'm not sure how to check the bushing, I've adjusted the "droop" of the flippers by loosening the screw underneath the pf, could you explain how to mess with the bushing?

Here’s how you would fix this if you had to do it yourself.

Let’s assume that the holes through the playfield are perfect since they are cut by computer. That plastic bushing that protrudes through the playfield has some very slight space around it. It’s possible that it’s just a millimeter or 2 off with respect to the ball guides.

You can take 6 of the 8 flipper mounting screws off leaving the opposite corners in place and then loosen the 2 remaining screws just a snug and see if you can shift the flipper into a place where the hop is gone. Once you find it, mark where the screw holes now need to be, fill, and carefully redrill pilot holes.

Remember these things are built by hand!


#3111 3 years ago
Quoted from abagwell:

Newbie to working on machines so I'm not sure how to check the bushing, I've adjusted the "droop" of the flippers by loosening the screw underneath the pf, could you explain how to mess with the bushing?

You’re also not that far from CGC. If you can’t get this sorted, maybe it’s worth seeing if they’ll help service the machine for you if you brought it over. Just thinking out loud...

#3116 3 years ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

I am learning the same. If you chat on a problem or concern people send you unkind comments. They think it is like saying their kid is ugly which is silly. This is discussing an issue. Hiding and ignoring won’t solve or identify anything. Silencing people has never ever worked over time in the history of the world.

I agree that silencing doesn’t work. What I have found works much better is 1 communication as it helps build empathy and understanding. I’ve always found that building relationships is more efficient.

#3133 3 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Major difference here. If every model they made eventually had paint peeling off, people would be up in arms!
I spoke with Ron Kruzman who knows a thing or two about clear coating, and he was telling me that the process they're using now isn't going to stand the test of time, and we're seeing that with the chipping.
He actually has had people send the remake pfs to him to re-clear as CGC is not putting out a lasting product here.
His process uses 7-10 layers of clear I believe, and they all have curing times which are often weeks.
So go ahead and put Cliffys on every exposed edge of your game, but you're just feeding the problem, not helping it.

Ron is a collector quality clear coat guy. He is the most extreme example of perfection that you can get. No production game should be expected to hold the standard. And if it did, it would be much more expensive.

I am sorry; you can not compare them. They aren’t comparable.

#3135 3 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

I'm not sure why it would be so much more expensive to use good, dry, solid wood, and a good quality clear coat that won't chip too easily, like Ron does.

Ron doesn’t use dry wood; he clear coats already produced playing surfaces. And he takes MONTHS. He’s amazing, but we are talking OCD here; I love my Ron coated CV and do not get me wrong, but the clear on my AFMr is really very nice.

#3137 3 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

Do you mean he lets the clearcoats dry for weeks at a time, totalling months when combining each coat? I can see spraying the clearcoat takes a few minutes, but the drying/curing may take time. So the extra cost would be storage while they cure? What other costs or efforts go into making them as good as Ron's?

Hand block sanding is another. Again, production clear vs restoration clear. The auto refinish guys have the same debate, etc.

#3144 3 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

what are the playfield numbers on the good ones?


#3154 3 years ago

I am trying not to sigh out loud at work reading this, but, sigh. Just play your game and enjoy it!

#3157 3 years ago

What’s the magic flipper power number for you, Pin_Guy

#3159 3 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

TBH I tucked the edge of the envelope under the lockdown bar when I got home and then went outside to shovel snow
I will dial this in this weekend and let you know

I won’t be a jerk and tell you the weather out right now in California. I hope you get to play with it soon!

#3175 3 years ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

Guys the debate on the playfeild issues all came when CGC starting making their own games. Stern made the first mmr’s and then they switched to CGC making. That’s right when the ghostbuster playfeild issues came along with planking, chipping and ghosting inserts that Churchill/CGC manufacture. Now we are seeing some of these issues pop up elsewhere. I bought the remake to be a better and improved game than the original. It is but it is not lasting. A new playfeild needed in a three month old game is not something to be proud of. My plastics are cracking. Why? No heat from the bulbs? Planking on playfeild. This game is next to 25 other games that are having no issues in a climate controlled house with controlled humidity 365 days a year. For $8300 we should not be talking about errors in the playfeild colors by a mistake in the color selection in screening. Not be talking about chipping. Bad plastics etc. These should be fixed before announcing the production of the next remake. CGC is spread to thin with the production expansion they did and their products are showing. Adding a third different game to manufacture won’t help. Just because your game is not having any issues yet, it doesn’t mean that will last forever. Some of us are having real issues and the feedback should be important to CGC to correct the issues. The quote regarding Kruzman is appearing to be right. They won’t last like the originals did. Time will tell but it is not fun seeing serious issues on a new game. If we want to move on and sell the game the buyer then has no warranty thanks to the only warranty that can’t be transferred in Pinball.

There is some misinformation here.

CGC produces playfields and cabinets in house. Stern assembled the original MMRs with CGC parts. Stern did assembly and test, nothing more. For AFMr, CGC continued to produce playfields and cabinets in-house, and they assembled them in their own factory

Plastics, metal and other components are are not produced in-house (just like Stern), they come from part suppliers and are assembled on the games in the factory. CGC only makes playfields and cabinets, and that is consistent through MMR and AFMR. I fail to see how the place of assembly would lead to more playfield chipping issues, etc when CGC was in control of their playfield manufacturing process the entire time throughout both games.

As for the plastics, looks like the supplier had a run with some ink crackling, if you have a set that looks bad, CGC has been replacing them. Thankfully changing out plastics is pretty easy

This place amplifies issues in an unnatural way. There’s more than 1,000 AFMrs out there and something like 1,500 MMRs out there. These forums still do not amount to more than a small number of issues per thousand games shipped, which is a pretty solid batting average.

If you have an issue, contact CGC and talk it through with Doug; he’s a good dude and has been helping out folks with excellent support.


#3182 3 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

To be fair, I would not have ever found out about the defective solenoid code and Pic2 was it not for this forum. CGC or my dealer never contacted me. I was contacted only when my Pic2 was shipped, and inquiring myself. I could have damaged my game, and not known for a while as the coil may not have burned out fully. I did notice my left flipper acting a big weird since I first got it and did not realize it could have been the code. I'm now interested in doing a full quality control inspection of my game, looking over every part which may have caused issues for other, so that not only can I get these issues resolved under warranty, but also uncover issues now that may go unnoticed until the warranty has expired.

The PIC is a good example of where this forum was a great way to communicate. I subscribe to CGC_DougS and get notified when he posts which is a good way to stay informed of important things related to the remakes.

As for a full inspection, I wish you luck. I personally think the best way to go is to play your game and see what shakes out. While you could do a component level validation, in-system testing is probably the better way to go.

#3213 3 years ago

Contact Doug at CGC. They should be able to get you fixed up quickly.

#3224 3 years ago

I love this pin so much. It is so brutally hard. It’s downright cruel.

#3225 3 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

Luck for what? I just thought having a simple list of issues will help guys like me who spent all kinds on this thing only to find out there are a bunch of hidden unknowns over and above what someone would usually have to deal with on a brand-new game. I did not know before I purchased this pinball that the payfield would chip so easily, I was sold the idea that AFMr was one of the best if not the best out there. I did not expect my cabinet decals to start cracking, I was sold that CGC has been making cabs for years and not to question the quality. It was the most expensive machine. I did not expect to get left out of the loop on major issues, specially after my dealer would not budge on the price and justified it as "not dealing with a guy in his basement in his underwear". I did not expect to have to resort to taking time out of running my business to investigate and gather information to put my mind at ease that I have not overlooked or missed issues which a seasoned pin guy would see. I can go on and on, but the fact is, I bought a TNA instead of a MMr. At this point, I would not buy another remake from CGC.

Took me a few days to respond to this, sorry for the delay, work got busy. I wish you luck in enjoying your game. That’s it. It’s supposed to be fun and I hope that you can find the joy in it. These days when there’s always something to get upset about in the world, pinball *should* be that tiny pocket of happy that reminds us to have fun. The idea of going through a game looking for issues just doesn’t sound like anyone’s idea of a good time.

You have an LE with a solid warranty and you have a company who is standing by that warranty and a dude in Chicago (Doug) who is going out of his way to help when things come up. So, I think you should play your game and if something comes up, get it fixed.


#3228 3 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

What sucks is not getting straight answers, for example; "Where do I find official notifications for my AFMrLE?"

You follow CGC_DougS and his posts on Pinside (subscribe to him)

He only posts official updates and doesn’t really ever come here to chit chat. If you wanted an official channel to CGC for relevant info, that’s it as far as I can tell.

#3249 3 years ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

Remove the launch ramp (metal two screws) Bend the ramp at the crease (against the crease essentially smoothing out the bump in the ramp) reinstall. It prevents the ball from jumping off the ramp and hitting the wire form.

Don’t do this if the game was produced recently. Games coming off the line now do not need that tweak. I don’t have exact dates, but I believe that any game in the last 6 weeks should not need it.

#3252 3 years ago

On the back of the game, there’s a white sticker that shows the build date.

#3254 3 years ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

Lets have some real data on that first before we tell people not to do this.

I am unable to figure out how to quote this properly since it’s in the other thread, but in the CGC Production thread, Doug had this to say 51 days ago. New games coming off the line should not need the shooter lane ramps bent. If something isn’t right, opening a ticket is still the right way to go.

Hello Everyone!
This year blew by for me and I can’t believe we are knocking on the door of Christmas / New Year’s 2018. We accomplished many great things at CGC this year. Most notably, I believe we are assembling / shipping an amazing product and we are hitting the promised timelines that we have made. The past many few weeks have insane with all that we have been shipping, considering all the various products that we produce.
1. Overall our games are performing amazingly. However, there has been a small number of reported concerns, on very recently produced games, of the balls trajectory as is comes out of the shooter lane. This really came to light as people opened tickets and we were able to piece to together the problem. By Monday morning our engineering and production team were working on a fix. Let me be clear, there are no failures; rather, the ball on these games comes out of the shooter lane and does not properly travel to the gate or around the orbiter loop. As mention several times, we work very methodically here at CGC. It might take a few days before we release the correction. Regardless, it will be an easy correction and we will post it on our service portal.

#3256 3 years ago
Quoted from abagwell:

Is this just Doug saying that they were going to release the "fix" for it soon....that was the PDF that told us to bend it right? Unless I'm missing it I don't see anything in what you posted about them correcting this issue on the assembly?

Yes, the PDF. And as for correcting the issue, does anyone think that they didn’t correct it on the line? If you need to hear it from CGC, that is totally reasonable, and I cannot speak to that.

#3261 3 years ago
Quoted from estrader:

My build date is 12/27. If I have the correct understanding the problem is with the ball not making it up around the curve when launched? If so it seems to happen on my machine 3-4 times out of ten. Should I bend the ramp to correct this?

Contact CGC with a support ticket for help.

#3265 3 years ago
Quoted from estrader:

Is there a reason cgc doesn’t mail out the new production part?

The bend on the part is a 10 second fix vs waiting for the mail, etc.

#3286 3 years ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Such a silly comment, when newbie's ask for advice on all aspects of pinball. How do I learn the rules? How to I fix this or that? What machine should I buy, this vs. that?
PF protectors result in a game that's less enjoyable to play. If you don't believe they negatively effect play, then I don't know what to tell you. Geez...I even hate the way some mylar effects gameplay. After removing the magnet mylar from my Dialed In, the magnet behavior is way more predictable. But don't let us more experienced pinballers super impose our "opinions"

Oh boy

#3288 3 years ago
Quoted from MrSanRamon:

I was playing a game, had a couple extra balls and finished my second multi-ball when all the balls finally drained.
When the next ball started, the game was not playing like it should feature wise, then I realized instead of being in ball 3, I was in ball 1 of a new game and the score was reset.
Has anyone had that happen to them?

No never. Any chance the start button may have gotten held in by accident?

#3291 3 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

I did notice some like and some don't.. I'll leave it on, but the second part of my inquiry is how I'll know if the playfield will show issues if/when I remove the playfield protector outside of the warranty period.

I would just add cliffy protectors to the game to protect the edges and enjoy the heck out of your game.

#3324 3 years ago
Quoted from Budman:

Are chrome balls safe to use in my AFMr ?

No magnets on AFM, any ball will work.

#3325 3 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

The other (but much more expensive) option is to buy a second playfield, and have that on standby for the day when your current look beat up. I'm considering doing that for my MMR, as it will likely be a game I never let go of. I might even send the backup pf to Ron Kruzman to get a proper clear job, and then one day dar down the road, when I want a new playing MMR, I have the pf ready to go.
And with the one I remove, I can always have that one restored so my son can one day own a "new" game.

I have a spare MMr playfield just in case, and will get an AFMr when it's available. But then again I have spareitis and have spare everything for all my games. It's a condition...

#3344 3 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

Does anyone have a well used unprotected AFMr playfield with no chipping? It would be good to hear about success stories, so we know there are in-fact some examples of very durable and well clearcoated AFMr. We know to expect dimpling right?

Not a single issue. Got mine early in August and have played it a lot. No edge chipping or any other issues.

#3346 3 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

what about under the mothership? Do you have cliffys there?

No cliffys anywhere.

#3349 3 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

What about if you weren't working for CGC/PPS/BAA?

I don’t. And if I did, I would disclose it.

I would love to work in the pinball industry; sounds like fun.

And if you’d like to inspect my games that I paid full retail for, please do.

Edit: I wrote the how to update firmware guides and gave it to CGC because they are a PC shop and have no idea about Mac and I’m pretty passionate about Apple and wanted to help fellow Mac folks who are into pinball. I wrote it as a Pinside post first and gave them a PDF for their own support since the work was already done.

I did it because I wanted to, not because someone asked me.

#3351 3 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Apologies if I mistakenly drew that conclusion, but it does come across like that. I've never heard of a single game from any supplier of any era that did not have a single issue.

It’s pinball. And we’re discussing edge chipping, etc and none of that has been a issue for me. My clear is really nice. I haven’t had to adjust anything on my AFM. It’s been good so far (knock on wood).

My MMR had an issue with the board in the head that they replaced and I had to bend a ball guide to stop the ball from hitting the slingshot but that’s about it other than a bolt falling out of my left flipper during a really good game. A 3 second fix.

I have been reasonably lucky with my NIB games. It’s my actual 20+ year old games that need occasional attention. But all in all, my games have been pretty well behaved.

All good.

#3354 3 years ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

Unfortunately I am in at $8450 in my MMRLE with color dmd upgrade and $8300 in AFMr le. I think that is a lot of money and with a LE I expect a premium product. I am willing to be patient but please don’t get ready to announce a new remake title game when you can’t produce the current titles correctly. How do you produce the plastics so the crack/craze? CGC should know this with PPS? All these little things add up to time to fix be the purchaser. It is like they don’t play them. Bending the wire form can be figured out by playing. Missing screws, loose bolts etc is lack of quality control.

CGC doesn’t make plastics.

Tons of outside suppliers make pieces for Stern and CGC. Ramps, metal pieces, inserts, etc, all made in and around Chicago. CGC is really a cabinet shop at heart; they make things out of wood. And now, they assemble pinball machines. But look online for the tour from Expo. They are a woodworking shop at their core.

#3358 3 years ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

How is your screening colors? True colors no planking lines?

No planking lines. Colors look fine to me. Not sure what I am supposed to compare it to

#3359 3 years ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

Yes I know but their partner PPS is in Williams/Bally part supply business and making plastics. Whem you assemble you are responsible for the parts you use and source.

Absolutely they are. Good thing anyone who had an issue got replacement plastics.

But doesn’t s—t happen? Make enough games, things don’t always go according to plan, you correct and move on? I work on software and this is very much how it goes.

#3361 3 years ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

Software different than manufacturing as recalls can break your profitability in manufacturing. Software you issue a update. I still do both.
We have no idea how long the replacement plastics will last. I know of a new AFMr that had the same plastic issues we chatted on and a recent build date. Why would they not have corrected it?

That’s a good question.

And enough software bugs impact profitability too

#3365 3 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

If you would be willing to share your playfield serial number, that would be a huge help since I think there is a relation to when each one was manufactured to the types of issues. My playfield is 840 something ( I'll check again ) and there was a tiny bit of chipping under the mothership before I put on the cliffy ( tiny tiny bit ) and also a very tiny bit ( just enough to notice ) on the shooter lane before I installed that cliffy too. I don't see any chipping at the SOL and have not put the cliffy there yet and am keeping the mantis. I don't see any damage anywhere else.

Would be happy to. I’ll check when I get home tonight.

I’m not against Cliffys and if my game started to show damage and I would put a cliffy on (as I did with my TAF; tried to avoid it and the realized I needed it). But I would rather keep the game the way it was designed.

#3369 3 years ago

Correct. The PIC version isn’t displayed anywhere (except on the chip label). But if you turn the flipper strength down, it will actually feel weaker, which is how you know it’s working.

#3374 3 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Please pose a closeup pic of your SOL hole, I would like to see the positioning of the mantis and surrounding area

Sure thing. I hope my game is ready for its closeup...

#3377 3 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Apparently not, which is very unfortunate; if you compare Sterns profits with their indifference to the software they release, you will see it has little effect on profits.

I was speaking outside of pinball, but yes, point taken.

#3396 3 years ago

Here’s mine. That white stuff around the SOL is under the Mylar. Backing paper maybe? Never really noticed it until tonight. But the edge is smooth and no chipping.

Shooter is clean. Saucer hole might have the slightest little bit on the left edge as I’ve actually never looked under the ship. It’s not visible so I have no plans to throw a cliffy on there. To me, that’s just fine. Maybe others feel different, but it’s OK here.

Number 209 branded on the PF edge.

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#3398 3 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

That mothership hole on the left side is getting pretty beat up already. You're playing with fire to leave it nekkid.

Why? It’s a hole in the wood under a ship, behind a drop target and normally behind a bank of targets. I can’t see it unless I look for it. It’s not like SOL or the chair hole in TAF that stares at you.

#3401 3 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Which is it? You've said two different things on the same subject in the span of one page - you are showing damage.

Wear in a non-visible spot isn’t “showing” to me. Could have been clearer, sure. I don’t care about the mothership hole.

I would have done it to SOL and will if it starts to show damage. But the mantis is doing a really good job there.

And every time I get a reject on my TAF due to the cliffy I get annoyed. I want the game to play right.


#3406 3 years ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

You should have a look at some of the original AFM Play Fields that have lots of plays. The Mother Ship hole is blown out. No difference here. Some things on AFMr are remade some are remastered (improved) The mother ship hole is not one of them. It WILL get damaged history has proven such. That is why I installed a cliffy there. (the only place I installed one) Yes I agree Cliffys change the difficulty of those hole shots, but its a good trade for no damage there. Your Game Play is already changed with the Mantis on SOL! Not trying to sell you something here just simple logic.

Your logic is sound. And this is just how I feel, and everyone can do what they want, but I still don’t care.

Do you know what happens when you hit the ship on a game with a well worn ship hole? The ship blows up.

Do you know what happens when you hit the ship on a game with a pristine ship hole? The ship blows up.

Cliffy is a great option for folks who don’t want wear on the edges. But it’s just not what I want to do on my game. And I love the discussion and all things pinball!


#3407 3 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

I'm still not convinced it's even physically possible for a clearcoat not to chip around the holes, that is why I wanted to see a picture of a playfield someone claimed is not damaged around the holes after a couple of thousand plays. I can see a polymer of some kind being durable enough ( tupperware ) but having it 'clear' and perfectly see-though makes it more brittle. If anyone knows of a playfield from any pin that has withstood a couple of thousand games, post a pic so we have a 'bar' to compare too.

Of course it’s not possible. It’s a hard edge that’s being hit with a heavy steel ball. Original games don’t have chipping because they have chipping and then wood loss over hundreds of thousands of plays...

You can easily mitigate this if you want with a Cliffy and then it’s a moot point forever. But thinking that CGC can somehow outsmart physics, etc.

#3419 3 years ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

There is damage! Wait until 6000 plays and compare to original. This game is less than 6 months old. It appears you are just one of the people that are willing to accept manufacturing issues no matter how bad. Yours will get worse and worse not better. You have to add a cliffy on the mother ship hole look at every original.

I’ve probably posted too much on this subject so I’m just going to leave it be. I’m good with my game and appreciate that you will make different decisions with yours.

#3427 3 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

I agree and i would even like to see what CGC has to say about it and i would also like to know why these games don't come from the factory with protectors on them. Im not being critical or bashing these games at all, but im just kind of afraid to buy one of their games because there seems to be alot of problems with them at the moment. At 8k per game i expect top notch quality.

Breaking my own rule because I think I have something worthwhile to add. This is the all-weather floor mat analogy all over again. My Tacoma came with fabric mats. Toyota could have included them; most car companies don’t. For a truck owner, you’re probably going to want them, but not everyone does. Considering what I spent on the truck, was I annoyed I had to buy mats? Maybe a little.

There aren’t a lot of problems. There are the same old problems, metal being harder than wood and all of the issues that come along with that. Principals or not, if you want to be fully protected, it’s a small price to pay given what you pay for the game to have your piece of mind.

#3430 3 years ago
Quoted from neverahighscore:

How many times can you say the same thing. Some people dont want to hear the truth.

My boss said something pretty profound recently which was that the most important thing was to show up and have the conversation. Even if it doesn’t always go your way, it’s critical to participate.

#3431 3 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Well i dont know about you but i can live with fabric floor mats in my car but when it comes to my pinball machines im not ok with chipping clearcoat on my playfields. Big difference there.

Install a set of cliffy protectors. Done! Nobody wants you to be OK with it. We do want you to do something about it if it bothers you.

#3435 3 years ago
Quoted from snaroff:

In a work environment, I guess I can understand the wisdom. In social media land, I'm not so sure I see the virtue. If "going your way" means convincing others of anything, then I'm afraid you are setting yourself up for disappointment (or a bloody forehead
fwiw, the continual drone of PF chipping and dimpling is very tiresome. Folks that lose sleep over this should probably find another hobby.

I guess it only becomes tiresome if you take it too seriously. It’s only pinball.

#3439 3 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

I don't think we are losing sleep, just some of us are using this forum to learn things more experienced folks such as yourself have gone over to your satisfaction at one point on your own schedule. I'm sure you needed to ask the very same questions being asked here to come to a logical conclusion about how much chipping is expected, and if everyone told you to go away and stop talking or thinking about it, you would not have the knowledge to think you can convince others they are wasting time looking for the same answers.

I think that’s fair. It’s one of those short fuse subjects that if you’re in the hobby for a while it’s hard to start from the proper place. So for that, I certainly apologize if it came across short.

My point remains, this is part of the hobby. And is preventable with products out there made to prevent it.

And we muddle on.


#3460 3 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

I'm a bit scared to ask, but why not leave the clearcoat off, and use the same type of plastic used for full playfield protectors instead?

I think it boils down to what the goal of the product is. It’s still to make a commercial-quality machine, not to make a product that will never show any wear. Engineering is always one of those things where you have 3 axises and have to pick 2.


#3468 3 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

I would have told them this "If you aren't going to include the mats, I'm just not going to buy the truck."

But I realllllllly wanted to truck. Lol. Software engineers driving pickup trucks in Silicon Valley. Inconceivable!

#3480 3 years ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

Many of us aren’t having clear coat issues but other planking issues. Cliffy won’t fix anything.

Have you contacted CGC?

#3484 3 years ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

Yes. Awaiting playfeild status. Getting new plastics again. It is like a new car you want and expect it to look nice. To change topics is 2.0 working well for everyone? Seems no issues there.

2.0 is working great here too. -4 is my sleep number.

#3488 3 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

What causes this planking? Is it from impact, or would this start appearing even if the playfield was sitting idle with no use?

I don’t think that’s planking.

#3509 3 years ago

Which game is that?