Cliffys do not, you need to ask specifically for the remake ones.

Weatherstripping foam works great to snug them back up.

If the cab is separating at the joint (as it looks like in that pic) clear is not going to stop it and may make the cracking and peeling worse. But this is a good example of why wrap-around cabinet stickers are a bad idea.

Titebond III for the win.

Unless they're the second owner in the warranty period, in which case CGC will do nothing under warranty.

I'm speaking from firsthand experience. For example, according to them, can't get the updated pic chip that fixes a pretty serious potential electrical problem with the flippers under warranty unless I'm the first owner. Extremely lame of CGC.

It's a SUPER TERRIBLE policy for CGC being a supposed "premium" vendor, and definitely asking a premium price. Both Stern and JJP will support second and third owners in the warranty period in a limited way (things like cabinet sticker nitpicks, no, broken boards and coils, yes, in my experience). Essentially the two year CGC LE warranty isn't worth the paper it's written on when you factor in the reality of the high end collector market where machines move sometimes in MONTHS, not years.

Anyway, I was told this PIC thing is more like a recall and they should cover it if I contact them directly instead of going to the distributor as is the usual policy (the policy I followed when I was denied). I'm a little less steamed, but only a little. This really bad warranty system will restrict their growth once more collectors get a taste of the wrong side of it. Made me a LOT less excited about anything CGC announces next, that's for sure.

I was denied by the distributor (not one I've ever used, the one that sold this to this original owner), citing CGC policy. However, I've now been told to contact CGC directly since this PIC thing is more like a recall and they'll handle it. I'll report back.

But they're drawing the line way too harshly. Literally the worst in the industry that I'm aware of. I know firsthand that JJP is the best covering 2nd and 3rd owners in the warranty period, followed by Stern, then others (anyone chime in about Spooky?) then CGC. Dead last. If JJP and Stern can make it work, there's no excuse for CGC. None.

And maybe make that a selling point of the CGC LEs? Maybe LE is the level where the warranty is transferrable for the full warranty period. Turn a SERIOUS current negative into a marketing positive while offering essentially what Stern and JJP already do off the record.

JJP outside warranty, second owner with that part failure, I can see. The bad DMD was probably the batch that was known to have issues and was more like a silent recall, so that may be why you got that. Were you 2nd owner on the Stern, too?

I'm talking about 2nd and 3rd owner IN warranty, WELL within the CGC 2 year "warranty". No excuse compared to their peers.

I was just following the policy CGC set by contacting the distributor. Giving CGC a shot directly after being told this is more like a recall on the PIC chip.

And see above, making a transferrable warranty a selling point of the LE level would turn a major CGC negative into a positive.

Yes, but worthless perks for the 2nd and 3rd owner across the line. My point was if they don't want to do the RIGHT thing and extend it across the line, they could make warranty extension another LE perk that would make it much more attractive, preserving resale value for the owner, too.

To recap. If you're not the original owner, you're screwed as of this moment.

Contacted distributor. Denied.

Contacted CGC. Crickets.

Just released CGC facebook post says CGC will not be sending PIC chips out directly.

Still hoping CGC does the right thing, but not looking good for non-original owners still in the machine's warranty period. This silent recall aside, CGC absolutely has the worst warranty policy for second and third owners of their very expensive machines. JJP and even Stern are better.

You are supposed to contact the distributor that sold the AfM to get the PIC2.

That's exactly why I cliffied that hole, first thing. The mantis-style protector does not protect the playfield surface area around the hole.

Stern uses multiple vendors. I'm more of the mind that some are better than others at the clearcoating process prep.

And certainly as a second owner where the CGC warranty is completely worthless.

I thought that whole mess happened when Stern tried to take PF manufacture in-house to save a few more dimes, then realized they were in over their head and went back.

I'd put it into switch test mode then bang on the playfield with the palm of your hand in various places close to that area to see if vibration is causing the lock to the left of the saucer target area to trigger. Then knock down the saucer target while in switch mode and see if the VUK switch that activates the lock activates, too. If it does, you may have a switch matrix issue.

But I really think it sounds more like vibration on a too-sensitive switch.

If you look at the bracket, one of the screw holes is elongated. This is so you can vary the tilt of the switch to raise or lower the switch blade that makes contact with the ball. Adjust the angle of the switch body, then tighten the screws to lock it down.

Dunno. Where is the movable screw now? Top? Middle? Bottom? I would GUESS it needs to be more towards the bottom, but I'm guessing blind.

Unless your a total n00b or repair-phobic, Anywhere, USA is fine.

Decentralized driver boards under the playfield are a bad idea. See: Spike service bulletins to fix parts coming loose from vibration and killing node boards for a good example on multiple recent Stern machines in the real world.

Manufacturers:Leave the driver boards in the backbox, please.

2.0 doesn't blow up your board under certain circumstances if you change the flipper power settings.

That's the main feature, and why CGC is handling this like like a recall where all owners can get the updated chip, instead of handling it like a CGC warranty issue where only the first owner can get the chip replaced for free.

-6 was way too soft on the machine here. -2 was still a little too strong (airballs off the two standups near the center). -3 seemed to be "just right" on this machine.

CGC came through and sent me the updated PIC 2.0 directly, even though we're not the first owner. I still disagree with their lack of support for successive owners inside the warranty period for their LEs (at LEAST). If JJP and even STERN can do that, CGC just looks bad, and we won't be buying any, new or used, for the route until/unless this changes. Shame, too, because AfMrLE is really well done. Seems like they'd stand behind it at least as well as Stern, but no.

Looks like they just screened that whole layer with the wrong color. Instead of orange, you got flesh colored. Was it right when you first got it? I can't believe the whole playfield spot color of orange faded from orange to flesh-colored evenly. Seems like a playfield printing screwup is more likely.

If they don't want to cover their lower-margin pins in each release, I can KIND OF see that (though Stern does), but it seems like such a no-brainer to offer transferrable warranties for the top-of-the-line LE models as a perk of that level. It would cost them very little in real-world terms, and instantly make LEs much more popular. I dunno. I think they'll eventually come around because this will hurt them when their competition has much better real-world policies (despite what the warranty says in print) in this regard.

Meh. It IS uglier, but Creature has plain pink and hot pink playfields. Some things never change.

You can't really compare the AfMrLE experience to an original. The gigantic screen can't be easily duplicated on a vintage one, nor can the re-drawn higher-res graphics. And the topper on the LE is interactive and one of the best I've seen that also can't be easily done on a vintage machine.

Well, almost never. Mt. Vesuvius did it famously well.

Someone that does clear for a living did chime in on one of these threads maybe 2-3 months ago. His opinion was that the surfaces were not being prepped properly before the clear was laid down, making the adhesion of the clear tentative at best. He said even with the newer clear he doesn't have chipping issues on work he does.

But using different materials/process. Not the same.

Ruh Roh. I TOTALLY recognize the crackling ink on the plastics. They used incompatible inks on the PETG when they screened them, and the ink is now crackling because it didn't "take" to the PET-G plastic. The ENTIRE first run of Shadow Superset plastics I did way back when in 2004-ish had to be recalled, re-run, and replaced (at my expense) for this exact reason. They all started crackling and you could only really see it when they were backlit. It looked EXACTLY like what you have in the picture of the plastics. It will not get better over time, only worse.

A week, give or take. There's some bad weather in the central US.

That was a harsh learning experience, but there was no choice about making it right for the people that got defective sets, IMO.

I WISH I still had my Shadow! I made the mistake of selling it after the plastics were done, and when all the plastics were suddenly available to make the machines look like new, prices on The Shadow took off! I do have a CPR Shadow playfield on preorder, so SOMEDAY I will have another perfect Shadow. It's a GREAT game.

Cliffies for SURE.

You need to get the ones made specifically for the remake, the originals don't fit right. SoL and Moving Target, Mothership hole at the very least. You could also get the trough protector and the shooter lane protector.

You're alone only in that you haven't had a negative experience with these new modern sissified playfield clearcoats yet. You will. It's just a matter of time. They're more brittle somehow and the level of hardiness seems to have little rhyme or reason. Edges are the easiest point of breakage, so covering edges with a cliffy is a smart hedge these days, and they're so thin I don't buy that they affect gameplay enough to matter (except on like KISS where the scoop is designed too small to begin with).

JJP is now including actual Cliffies from the factory on Dialed In. Just verified that the changeover happened around Jan 30th. It took a while, but it's another industry-leading decision by Jack.

JJP has now upped the game by including actual Cliffies from the factory. We'll see if the others just keep offering excuses.

You can minimize the potential by changing "Game restart" to "slow" which requires a press to be held before it restarts.

What kind of Ninja would have chrome balls? Black? Probably. Chrome? Eh....

Only this isn't true. The chipping clear after relatively few games is not a problem the originals had. Aside from actual WEAR from thousands of games, the clear on the originals was very good and I never saw a chipped one after only a few hundred plays. Crappy chipping clear issues are unique to many newer pins and the new remakes.

You're talking about the documented ink crackling, not the plastic itself cracking, right?

That's nasty. You're way past mylar. Get a cliffy (or actually ALL of them) on that machine, stat. Note that you must request a set for the remake. The original AfM ones are slightly different.

Eventually everyone loses at Russian Roulette. Don't play it.

I think it has to do with the irregular shape of the hole and the speed/distance of a made shot. An extended flipper to the SIM hole is shorter than from the lower flipper to the phone hole, and there's no metal on the back side of the SIM hole to protect it even a little like there is at the phone scoop. You're taking a rocket shot straight to exposed wood on the inside back of the SIM hole if the SIM hole is unprotected.

That mothership hole on the left side is getting pretty beat up already. You're playing with fire to leave it nekkid.

It also looks like the Front half SOL edge on the right running behind the black post may be chipping/lifting.

Which is it? You've said two different things on the same subject in the span of one page - you are showing damage.

Until Dialed In NO factory games had Cliffies. Stern just ripped off the idea - they weren't and aren't Cliffies. Jack stepped up and moved the ball forward by installing Cliffies from the factory, starting with Dialed In, and he should be applauded for that.

? Your post is too brief. What are you saying?

This just changed late last month when the first Dialed Ins left the factory with actual real Cliffies (I contacted Cliff to check and they ARE his on the new Dialed Ins). No idea why Jack and JJP aren't advertising this as it really looks good for them as an industry-leading forward-facing pinball manufacturer.

No it did not. It came with a ripoff of a cliffy-style protector Stern did with no input from or reimbursement to Cliff. Scummy, but Stern. If Cliffy didn't design it, it's a metal protector, not a cliffy.

Because they're ugly, thick, and cloud up. There is no problem with properly prepped surfaces and properly applied clear.

Which is not good for Cliff because it encourages his product being ripped off. If Gary Stern can get you saying Aerosmith has Cliffies, he'll keep ripping off Cliff, which isn't cool. Drawing a line and only calling actual Cliffies by that name respects Cliff's work and the fact that he's helped the hobby a LOT by coming up with the idea all those years ago and still banging them out now.

That nude color mistake is more distracting than the wood grain.

I'm not unaware of what you're saying, just that Stern, etc should not be rewarded for ripping Cliff off unapologetically when buyers (confused or lazy) call what Stern did Cliffies, because they took the concept, benefited, and Cliff got zip out of it. It's a respect issue for Cliff, imo.

JJP should be applauded for doing what's right for their machines, customers and Cliff by using real Cliffies on Dialed In now and compensating Cliff for it. Stern should get none of that goodwill for stealing it. But I'll shut up about that now. The point's been made.

The wood grain is unfortunate, but plenty of modern playfields have it. LOTS of Sterns do. I'd chalk this up to bad luck of the draw.

The nude color screening error is a mistake - a pretty big one - and I'd ask for a replacement playfield since it was the wrong color screened and therefore is nude EVERYWHERE on the playfield the correct orange was supposed to go.

Ooookay....but that's not where the cracking/chipping will show up first on a Dialed In...

Anti-rattle tape. Problem solved.

If true, the company trying to hide issues by telling people not to share them with the community that may also be affected is not cool.

Your shooter lane doesn't look messed up. Just normal wood variations on color. I've seen many like this. The OTHER one earlier with the wood putty mess clearcoated over is not normal.

What was your issue that was resolved? Wrong screen color? Planking? Chipping? Something else?

Wait, so you were told to live with the COMPLETELY WRONG COLOR on your BRAND NEW UNDER WARRANTY GAME playfield? That seems...unreasonable. I wonder how many others have that screened color screwed up like this? I mean, it's not like it's even close, and elsewhere on that layer, that color is used for a laser, so you have a NUDE laser beam in the art instead of an orange one? C'mon. That is NOT right.

AfMr-Screen-error-comparison (resized).jpg

The planking I can see some leeway in interpreting since a LOT of playfields have it to varying degrees (stern is especially bad at times). So that one I can give them.

But the completely WRONG screen color on a WHOLE playfield is inexcusable. It's not artistic, it's a MISTAKE, and not the responsibility of the buyer to live with. That problem is black and white, no wiggle room. The playfields affected should be replaced on demand. What's the warranty for, if not CLEAR and OBVIOUS factory DEFECTS like THAT?

Which seems to confirm that, print aside, they have the worst in-practice warranty of the "big three" currently.

Doug took care of the PIC2.0 issue for us, even as the 2nd owner, which was appreciated given their outdated stance on second owner in-warranty support. But if I was a first owner and had the nude color screening error across the playfield that they said was "normal" and wouldn't swap out, I'd be pissed. That, plus the warranty thing makes a no-go for us on the next machine unless things change, despite the fact that we LOVE the AfMr overall.

I would say because it isn't even CLOSE to the original, and doesn't match the rest of the playfield color scheme. Nude laser fire isn't a thing, and the giant area between the flippers would be nude and...red? Also, the orange-red design on the plastics would not match the nude-red combination on the messed up playfields because the color scheme and design is on the plastics AND the playfield, and the plastics don't have the wrong color. No. Just...no.

You can see what I mean comparing an inlane plastic with the right color combination to one of the nude playfield mistake color combinations. They don't match.

PF-to-Plastics-Nude-Compare2 (resized).jpg

It's not like CFTBL, where you have normal pink and hot pink - they're both pink variations. Nude has no relationship to orange. It's just wrong. I'd like to see picture of a whole playfield with this screening issue. I'm wondering if they grabbed the flesh tone from the woman by the flippers and just ran it on two layers of screening, forgetting to change the color.

Under cabinet lighting looks cool, but really doesn't add anything to the gameplay.

If they made a deal with Cliff and shipped with actual Cliffies from the factory like JJP is now on Dialed In, I'm sure the accolades would far outweigh any complaints from the purists. It's just an excuse.

I could buy this if the colors were *close*, but they're not. It's the flat out wrong color, period. I was thinking maybe they just forgot to change the flesh color on the girl when they changed the screens, running the same color twice. It's why I'd like to see a "nude" playfield picture of the area by the flippers since it has the girl and the "nude" mistake color in close proximity.

How can we know that if people that open tickets are being actively discouraged from posting their problems to keep issues on the down low? I sincerely doubt they only ran one or two playfields with the nude color mistake. There are probably dozens if not more out there.

That PLUS the manufacturer is reducing claims for chipped playfields by including the Cliffies. That has to be a net net benefit.

Let's not get too hysterical. I think you'd have to be REALLY negligent and/or in a super arid climate to get to that level. I've had lots of Sterns and a few B/W with planking and zero progressed to splitting, but they were all waxed frequently and kept in a climate-controlled house/location.

Voice of experience.

Of course you're entitled to whatever feelings you have.

However, the point is in my experience with a LOT of machines from Stern(mostly) and B/W with this "effect", it is very unlikely to get any worse if the machine is waxed regularly and kept in a temperature controlled house/location. Exactly zero got worse that I have had. So yeah, that concern is a little hysterical. I'm talking about the generally mild planking effect in pics here. If it was all over the playfield or the grooves were very deep, that's a different story, but none of the pics here have shown one like that.

The playfields with the incorrect nude color screened, however, are totally unacceptable and anyone with one should be offered a *correct* replacement. There's no wiggle room on that point.

Can you post a pic of the area by the flippers? I wonder what that ball with the chick on it looks like with nude instead of orange in it since it's a pretty large area.

You just got a lighter orange, within what I'd call normal spec. It's not a nude error playfield.

Wow, that roof blue is WAY off in the CGC ones compared to original/HEP.

Bull. There's a thing called PMS color. Printers use it all the time to get EXACT colors EVERY TIME they run the same job. We're not in the 1950s. There's color matching tech even outside PMS that yields results that are consistent.

But shouldn't the playfield at LEAST match the plastics? THAT'S the problem with the nude playfield color mistake. It's CLEARLY a mistake because it doesn't even match the same design on the plastics.

Both your slings don't have the rubber resting in the channel on the back star post in those pictures.

I'm pretty sure in the post contact was made and the response was "that's the way it is", but I should probably go back and look it up to make sure I'm not confusing it with the nude color playfield mistake.

Prefer not to, or were told not to by CGC as a condition of getting the replacement? Shutting up all of a sudden and not sharing the resolution isn't helping anyone.

But for the really big problems like completely wrong screened nude color instead of orange, EVERYONE should be able to get a replacement - it's not a little imperfection, and it's plain as day. So remaining quiet about the scope of the problem or the resolution does not benefit anyone except CGC.

The hand mixed paint excuse is just that, an excuse. PMS color has existed for DECADES and provides consistent results. The color matching computers at Lowes and Home Depot can provide very good results. If they're eyeballing the matching, they're morons. There are a wealth of computer controlled color-matching solutions, and they should be using one if they aren't already.

And even then, nude vs orange is PLAIN AS DAY. There's no ambiguity. I'd still like to see a nude playfield with the area by the flippers because I think they used the flesh tone from the woman twice and just forgot to change it on those playfields. If that's what happened, seeing that area would make it obvious.

AfMr-Screen-error-comparison (resized).jpg

Veery nice. High five!

They should be flat with the playfield. If they're raised half a millimeter or so, you pushed the posts down too much or over-tightened, which tweaks the metal and makes it rise a little.

Mmmm...no. I'd say that American Pinball has the best record for transparency and communication currently.

Oh, no. It has to be an egregious problem like half a year with no "every two weeks" updates before I get in the mix. And I don't have a nude playfield, thank god.

That said, as much as we love AfMr LE, we won't be getting any more CGC games until they improve their lacking warranty (written or implied, I don't care) on the LEs to cover second owners in the warranty period like the other big boys do.

Meh. It's bad form at these high prices for not-problem-free pins. Stern and JJP will take care of issues for 2nd owners (not for esoteric stuff, but real problems) even though their warranty doesn't explicitly state it. And given how much pins move around at the LE and CE level, this makes sense. If CGC wants to compete, they should, too. We buy a handful of pins a year, which at $7-$9000 a pop is nothing to sneeze at. I know there are others that buy much more. Offering the same protection as their competitors, even if only at the LE level, should be a no-brainer.

Well, that's great if they're not making clear mistakes like completely wrong colors on the playfield layers or shooter lanes half filled with putty under the clear that they indicate is fine. We'll see, but we're out on more expensive CGC pins until the warranty terms and coverage is competitive, and I don't think we're alone.

Of course the black is the knot, but the scattered mess on top was ill-applied putty. It's pretty clear. Here, look again:

AfMr-shooter-lane1 (resized).jpg

Do YOU want an AfMr LE with this shooter lane? How did it even get out of the factory?

Look, I can only go off what the few people that have posted what their interaction with CGC went like because CGC is asking others with the big problems not to talk about their resolution (which makes no sense). And when CGC is saying the CLEARLY WRONG nude color screening mistake is an artistic thing, and normal for hand-mixed paint, that's a one buffalo chip too many.

Now, in my case, we got reasonable orange, not nude, and Doug handled the replacement Pic2.0 chip even though we're a second owner. He may even handle the crackling plastics issue since he said to open a ticket on it. All of that's great, and I appreciate my personal interactions so far. But, as long as these OTHER BS interactions are happening on bigger problems, no one should be cool with it, because someday it will be YOU being asked to eat a clearly mis-screened playfield because of the "hand-mixed paint."

Haha, Pinside can't do ratios. It thinks you want an emoji.

1 to 1 resolution with the manufacturer is the way to go, but not if they're handing out "artistic license" and "hand-mixed paint" excuses as a cover for clear mistakes.

Likely something just came partially unplugged when you were in the backbox. I'd just open it back up and check all the connections again carefully.

If that's the way, why not just have Mirco send un-cleared printed playfields. Seems like it would save work and yield better results.

Are the movies triggered by game events? Otherwise I don't see the point...

They're not usually manufactured in order. You can have a high number with an early manufacture date.

I don't know how CGC does it, but JJP and others you can request a number so the number and the manufacture date/order are not really connected since they don't go in order.

Just got replacement inlane plastics for AfMrLE to replace the two that came with the machine that had developed the crackling ink. 2nd owner, but this and the PIC 2.0 were both handled under warranty so...that's encouraging.