(Topic ID: 192072)

Attack From Mars Remake (AFMr) Owners Club

By Pin_Guy

6 years ago


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26 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

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Post #1 PinGuy's links to unboxing and SOL potential issue. Posted by Pin_Guy (6 years ago)

Post #5 SOL protector issue Posted by Pin_Guy (6 years ago)

Post #73 LED info Posted by stpcore (6 years ago)

Post #145 Cliffy install info Posted by evh347 (6 years ago)

Post #149 Firmware 1.0.0 Posted by Pin_Guy (6 years ago)

Post #189 info on using AFM cliffys Posted by GorillaBiscuits (6 years ago)

Post #357 Topper connector issue Posted by LTG (6 years ago)

Post #366 Image of Cliffy addition to scoop. Posted by sparechange1974 (6 years ago)

Post #368 Cliffy install info Posted by sparechange1974 (6 years ago)


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#2801 6 years ago
Quoted from pintechev:

I don’t think you can or should compare a factory game to one restored and dialed in by one of the greatest restoration people in the hobby. It’s not a comment on CGC or their quality, far from it. I just don’t think that you can say that they should be the same.

I have a low play original also that plays completely different. I would love to know why more air balls on the remakes. Same parts etc should play the same. Unless the remade parts aren’t exactly the same. The remakes are beautiful and what a interesting light show.

#2802 6 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Improved cabinet....that's first i heard that? I much perfer the silkscreened cab over the decals tho. Also lighting can be changed to leds on the original so not much difference there and i even can customize the original lighting even more so.

The lighting on tha AFMr is better not a completely on off like aftermarket LEDs. Yes i know i can buy a board to fix that. It also has the multiple colored ships and interactive topper hard to beat. That said the flippers do feel different even after adjusting with to many air balls not in orginal game. The original silk screen cabinets are great and are more expensive to produce than a decal. As for being better built cabinets yes the materials are modern but time will tell. I have a friend who restores and manufactures arcade video games and he says the new materials will not last compared to the 80’s and 90’s materials as the glue products they used were better then and banned now by California. My 23 year cabinet is great and not coming apart like many of the stern or other games. Changing the flipper material can be the biggest difference. I did on my GBLE and much less air balls.

Chicago gaming quality seems to have dipped down recently with increase production but they will get that sorted out. Remember big improvement since the last attempt at what they believed to be a incredible dwarf pinball machine called “Vacation America” designed by the now infamous John trudeau. Only 530 made. Maybe a remake coming.

#2826 6 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

Also, is there not a benefit in having decals over silkscreen? It's easier to replace/fix a decal no?

Silkscreen is always better as wont wrinkle. You can also put a decal over silkscreen.

#2828 6 years ago
Quoted from FlipperFreak:

Received a msg. from Doug. Our 2.0 kits have been shipped. We'll get them out to all of our customers the minute they arrive. Thanks for your patience.
Tommy

Cool contacting my dealer now. He was thinking end of this week.

#2861 6 years ago
Quoted from adii:

Isn't CGC also the Churchhill Cabinet Company that makes all of the cabs and playfields for other manufacturers? It's shocking that people are having cabinet and playfield issues.
https://www.pinballnews.com/site/2016/11/04/churchill-cabinet-company-tour/

Churchill is Chicago Gaming sister company in same building. The Ghostbuster playfeild issues were theirs and stern was stuck with them.

#2870 6 years ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

This is true. There is no perfection. But everyone has their idea of good quality in a game. The play field is a sensitive area for the avid collector. I am both a collector and a player. My theory with the pf lines is the dimpling from normal play over time will tone down your ability to see the lines in the pf. It will even things out and it all will become less noticeable. I have been known to use play field protectors and this is the reason why I did not use one here. In fairness when comparing these remakes to the originals, the originals had serious problems of their own. The AFM design had major wear issues with the SOL and mother ship holes. Monster Bash had Drac Trac wear issues and Mosh Pit hole wear issues as well. Not to mention the decal issues on the cabinet. The remakes will solve these problems making it attractive to buy the remake instead of an original that needs major attention for them to look and play properly.

On MB and CC the decal were a problem until they freed them. However there is zero improvements on the SOL and mother ship holes on the remakes. They are exactly the same. The fix is Mylar, cliffy and mantis adjusted correctly. What is the fix for drac Trac besides the metal that changes the play? The lines won’t go away from dimpling look at the remakes on location.

#2871 6 years ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

Yes, but in all fairness, it is not happening on every game. That doesn't make it right for the owner's of the games that did chip. None of us want to see chipping on our play fields.

The question is not happening yet. Just like my GB LE I have zero issues but when are they going to pop their head? I never know and I hope for the best. One wrong ball and the chip comes. I have learned different styles of play can bring the chips instantly.

#2872 6 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

I thought that whole mess happened when Stern tried to take PF manufacture in-house to save a few more dimes, then realized they were in over their head and went back.

Nope that turned out not be not true rumor. Read articles on Churchill and you can see the ghost buster playfeilds in the pictures.

#2873 6 years ago

https://www.pinballnews.com/site/2016/11/04/churchill-cabinet-company-tour/

Read article and look at picture captions as mentions ghost buster playfeilds they are making.

#2880 6 years ago
Quoted from JJHLH:

That article is dated Oct 2016. Most of the ghosting issues were resolved by September 2016, so it appears that the Churchill playfields solved the issue. I followed this pretty closely since I bought a nib GB Premium in 2016. It was built in Dec 2016 and I never had any ghosting issues with it.
Stern apparently used a different playfield vendor initially because CGC was going to start building their own games and were therefore a direct competitor. At least that's my understanding of what happened, but I could be wrong.

No stern used Churchill from day one on GB. I have a GB LE and have had no issues but on my Stars Wars LE I got chipping in shooter lane.

#2886 6 years ago
Quoted from TOLLS:

Comet bumper rings just fitted. Even better that I expected.

Those look great!

1 week later
#3050 6 years ago

This is a late October 2017 build under lights indoors. Look at the orange is faded white and the “grain” many are talking about is turning into planking. The plastics on the printing is cracking too. I have bought both nib LE remakes but no one can’t say something is going on here. My 20 plus year orginal still is very orange and not planking. We all crushed Stern on ghostbuster and Churchill (Chicago gaming) made the playfeild. The inks from the silkscreen must not have UV protectors in it as there is no fade anywhere else. Something going on would be good to hear from clear coat and playfeild restoration gurus.

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#3054 6 years ago
Quoted from pintechev:

Have you contacted GCG for help on this? My PF doesn’t look like yours, and neither do the two friends that also have LEs.

This is not my machine. It is a AFMr standard not a LE.

#3056 6 years ago
Quoted from pintechev:

Whoever owns it should contact GCG. The playfields are the same between versions.

Be interesting as I don’t think fading is covered under any warranty.

#3057 6 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

-6 was way too soft on the machine here. -2 was still a little too strong (airballs off the two standups near the center). -3 seemed to be "just right" on this machine.
CGC came through and sent me the updated PIC 2.0 directly, even though we're not the first owner. I still disagree with their lack of support for successive owners inside the warranty period for their LEs (at LEAST). If JJP and even STERN can do that, CGC just looks bad, and we won't be buying any, new or used, for the route until/unless this changes. Shame, too, because AfMrLE is really well done. Seems like they'd stand behind it at least as well as Stern, but no.

If I buy a new car and sell three months later it still has its manufactures warranty to the new purchasers. How it should be. CGC it will begin to hurt their resale’s as little demand. Being a operatir you need to get some of the purchase price back and resell it after it is off location. This hurts what you can recoup. I had a AFMr LE offered to me for $7000 two weeks ago with 250 plays and included a backup playfeild that Harvey received from CGC. Would have been great to put on location for someone but no warranty.

#3060 6 years ago
Quoted from hoby1:

Where are we seeing fading. Looks normal to me and planking is a common occurrence from all manufacturers.

Guys look around extra ball, stroke of luck, Martian attack and rule the universe. Martian attack is also showing the ball wearing through playfeild like orginal. That orange is faded white throughout. Look at picture on out lanes. Then go look at yours. It is orange. Also orange line next to capital is the same thing

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#3061 6 years ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

Guys look around extra ball, stroke of luck, Martian attack and rule the universe. Martian attack is also showing the ball wearing through playfeild like orginal. That orange is faded white throughout. Look at picture on out lanes. Then go look at yours. It is orange. Also orange line next to capital is the same thing

Color it should be.

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#3062 6 years ago

This is an interesting read from HSA. Wish some of playfeild guys would chime in.

http://www.hsapinball.com/HSA_PINBALL/hsa69afmcompare.html#0

#3065 6 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Looks like they just screened that whole layer with the wrong color. Instead or orange, you got flesh colored. Was it right when you first got it? I can't believe the whole playfield spot color of orange faded from orange to flesh-colored evenly. Seems like a playfield printing screwup is more likely.

I am starting to agree with you. They might have made it wrong! Wonder how many are wrong. Only issue with that theory is in the shadows the orange was darker.

#3067 6 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

If they don't want to cover their lower-margin pins in each release, I can KIND OF see that (though Stern does), but it seems like such a no-brainer to offer transferrable warranties for the top-of-the-line LE models as a perk of that level. It would cost them very little in real-world terms, and instantly make LEs much more popular. I dunno. I think they'll eventually come around because this will hurt them when their competition has much better real-world policies (despite what the warranty says in print) in this regard.

When I bought my LE’s I never got offered the fine print as it was not printed yet. That said on the second one I should have assumed AFMr would be the same as MMrLE but the warranty they advertised without the small print was longer so assumed it may have changed. I bought both on day one in first minutes.

#3069 6 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

I have to agree, the color looks too linear across the entire play field to be fading.

That’s not great quality control. I am sure they made more like this in the “nude” color instead of orange.

#3071 6 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Meh. It IS uglier, but Creature has plain pink and hot pink playfields. Some things never change.

Depends if that worker is paying attention that day I guess. Still wrong.

#3073 6 years ago
Quoted from adii:

Same playfields, different quality. They pick out the best for the LE’s.

I disagree as I was told all Playfeilds are the same in all. Who knows for sure.

#3079 6 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

I"m still not clear on the benefits of getting an old one... older parts, damage, more work, fewer features all for the same price? Maybe if the older one was less than 1/2 the price of a new one, I would consider an old one. I think some may 'feel' they own something vintage with the older one, but it's like saying an old Ferrari is better than a new one... Also, as soon as you start modifying the old one, it's no longer a real 'vintage' it's like an old car with lots of kit stuff..

The WPC-95 orginal Games we know the issues and how to fix them. On the remakes each board is unique for that game. My MMr boards are different from the AFMr. While in warranty no issue. But like my WOZ ECLE when a light board goes bad it is now on me. The remakes seem to have been very well thought out but time will only tell. It is appearing remake vs original is not the debate but what condition is the individual machine in. As you have seen NIB AFMr can be different just like new cars or any item. Both are excellent games.

#3081 6 years ago
Quoted from hoby1:

Where are we seeing fading. Looks normal to me and planking is a common occurrence from all manufacturers.

I was not aware it is common. I own 26 games and have owned many more in the past. So is no one having issues with the planking? Many of us were calling vertical lines until I started seeing small splits. I counted 4 yesterday on this other machine. As my NIB came like it I know many others like the one I posted yesterday. Maybe it is dryer climate thing. I have never had it happen to another new game. I have bought used games that happened too prior to me buying but I assumed next to a/c are something. Love to know this answer as I assumed this was all the AFMr’s.

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#3083 6 years ago
Quoted from ecmurrayf1:

Definitely not normal for a new playfield. Mine doesn’t look like that and none I have seen look like that. Check with CGC as they are usually quick to respond.

Ok will do. So you have none of the planking lines at all? Can you post a pic? Everyone I have seen here locally has them. That is why my theory is a dry climate thing as wood is not fully dry.

#3085 6 years ago
Quoted from Lermods:

My playfield looks like glass, no lines whatsoever. my game has 38 total plays.

Thank you yours is flawless. Will contact them early next week. Probably call my dealer first. That has been my only concern with the AFMr remakes and looks like not all have the issue. Swapping playfeilds though is not fun. What have others done on the chipping issues that were posted previously? Did they send you a populated playfeild or just get a new one and make you sign a non disclosure agreement to stop talking about it. Seems like crickets lately from many on the chipping issues. Don’t want to swap and new one do the exact same thing though. I have been waiting for full Jury verdict on remakes and still have original too. One will go eventually.

#3087 6 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

If they did make him sign a non-disclose agreement, we will never know!

Yes we will know they signed a non disclosure agreement (NDA) as they won’t post on it. I know of a operator that had a major issue and silence is noted now.

#3091 6 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

What is your playfield number?

Is that on the bottom edge of it? I am traveling now but will post.

#3114 6 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

I have chipping on every edge. SOL, spaceship hole, drain, and lock hole. It happened much faster than chipping on MMR, and I've actually had to shut the game down until I get Cliffys.
The problem I see is that a sizeable number of owners (as you'll find right here in this thread) just accept it and criticize anyone that thinks this problem is unacceptable.
If everyone banded together and demanded a resolution, we'd possibly get something from CGC, and likely they'd rethink things before releasing game #3.
I love my AFMR, and have had a good experience with CGC support, but the chipping on my game, and the countless pics I've seen on the site have left me wondering if I'd rather own original games over remakes.
I had a lot of problems with Dialed In, and Jack from JJP moved mountains to get things right for me.

I am learning the same. If you chat on a problem or concern people send you unkind comments. They think it is like saying their kid is ugly which is silly. This is discussing an issue. Hiding and ignoring won’t solve or identify anything. Silencing people has never ever worked over time in the history of the world.

#3128 6 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

I think what baffles me is that even Stern decided to replace pfs on Ghostbusters due to ghosting, but on a playfield where ever edge is chipping away, so of us just turn a blind eye.
It makes absolutely no sense to me. I love every detail on my remakes except the chipping. If CGC got this under control, it would practically be a perfect machine.
But having people that condone poor quality control makes it tougher to force improvements or action.

Look at this I thought interesting as answers question on dimpling and other questions.

http://www.hsapinball.com/HSA_PINBALL/hsa69afmcompare.html#0

#3164 6 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Major difference here. If every model they made eventually had paint peeling off, people would be up in arms!
I spoke with Ron Kruzman who knows a thing or two about clear coating, and he was telling me that the process they're using now isn't going to stand the test of time, and we're seeing that with the chipping.
He actually has had people send the remake pfs to him to re-clear as CGC is not putting out a lasting product here.
His process uses 7-10 layers of clear I believe, and they all have curing times which are often weeks.
So go ahead and put Cliffys on every exposed edge of your game, but you're just feeding the problem, not helping it.

Well said.

#3166 6 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

No one is comparing. I'm simply pointing out the differences. Clearly Ron's process would create challenges and extra expenses in production, but it shows how much work goes into a long lasting clear coat.
I run a business where we custom create things for our customers. A long time ago, we decided to use a more expensive process and materials, and we've had few issues and many loyal and happy customers.
It's not impossible to do. They did it in the same factory 20 years ago!

I'm not the first to make this point, so I'll repeat what many have said... All games will show signs of wear, however, if you look at an original 90s B/W games, you generally will not see this type of chipping. You will see clear wearing down, and wood being exposed at the high impact areas, but as a general rule, it take a longer time.
I have a TOM from 1995, and the drain hole looks better than my AFMR that was chipping away almost right out of the box. My TOM was routed, and has a lot of mileage on it, but it's holding up. And there are no Cliffys on it!
I agree with you though, putting Cliffys on your games is a brilliant way to guard against damage, and preserve your game, but not all customers will be aware of this, and putting out a game that is notoriously chipping after less than 100 plays is not acceptable.
And as final note... I'm not just bored and looking for an excuse to complain about something. I have both remakes, and I'm chomping at the bit for the third. But as customer, I believe it is our responsibility to hold manufacturers responsible to a certain level of quality. This pf issue needs to be addressed, and will only happen when the community comes together.
Have a great day

I agree. Something is not right. When I get back I am contacting CGC. They need to improve and not keep making the same unaddressed issues. If it needs cliffys add from the factory. We are paying $8300 for the game.

#3167 6 years ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

This is out of context. The discussion was not about the Mantis, all of the AFMR have the Mantis. The discussion was about chipping on one game! Read the threads. And I have no idea where you came up with 90s W/B playfields. That was not in our discussion at all. That is a totally different discussion for a different day.

Guys the debate on the playfeild issues all came when CGC starting making their own games. Stern made the first mmr’s and then they switched to CGC making. That’s right when the ghostbuster playfeild issues came along with planking, chipping and ghosting inserts that Churchill/CGC manufacture. Now we are seeing some of these issues pop up elsewhere. I bought the remake to be a better and improved game than the original. It is but it is not lasting. A new playfeild needed in a three month old game is not something to be proud of. My plastics are cracking. Why? No heat from the bulbs? Planking on playfeild. This game is next to 25 other games that are having no issues in a climate controlled house with controlled humidity 365 days a year. For $8300 we should not be talking about errors in the playfeild colors by a mistake in the color selection in screening. Not be talking about chipping. Bad plastics etc. These should be fixed before announcing the production of the next remake. CGC is spread to thin with the production expansion they did and their products are showing. Adding a third different game to manufacture won’t help. Just because your game is not having any issues yet, it doesn’t mean that will last forever. Some of us are having real issues and the feedback should be important to CGC to correct the issues. The quote regarding Kruzman is appearing to be right. They won’t last like the originals did. Time will tell but it is not fun seeing serious issues on a new game. If we want to move on and sell the game the buyer then has no warranty thanks to the only warranty that can’t be transferred in Pinball.

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#3173 6 years ago
Quoted from thunderking50:

Same here ! 2 weeks to get some perfect new ones.
I did not complained on a forum i just called my distributor and told them the problem and 2 eeeks later everything was perfect !

Guys that is great! However, why is that good. It should have never happened in the first place. PPS remakes the plastics all the time. This process should have been very simple. Why can’t we discuss these things on the forum so we can who see else is having the issues. Not hide them. I keep getting contacted by people saying unkind words. That said I am also getting a lot of support of people saying they are having the same issues and won’t post. Same thing happened to the ghostbusters guys who had problems.

#3174 6 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

Is there a list being compiled of all known issues with AFMr?

The ones i have heard about:
Plastic crazing
Playfeild inserts crazing
Warped playfeild
Playfeild clear chipping
Playfeild Planking
Wrong screened colors on playfeild
Solenoid power settings and boards burning up (pic 2.0) is the fix
Premature playfeild wear
Topper interaction issues (now fixed)

Added over 6 years ago: Added to list check bolts that hold playfeild in as can come undone.

#3180 6 years ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

This is not the issue. And it was not stated as such. Also it was very clearly stated at the beginning of this discussion that the issues were game specific. Not product wide. We are only talking about a few games here. This IS what a forum is for! Making folks aware of an issue when it comes up on a particular game.
There is no slander toward the manufacturer. This is pinball. Things like this are going to happen. And we are going to talk about them here!

Kind of like a checklist to watch. I have zero doubt that CGC will take care off all just like stern has done. These are just growing pains and producing a whole game. Most likely all will be sorted out.

#3184 6 years ago
Quoted from Lermods:

Wow, I can’t think of an issue ever getting this far with an established company like Cgc, stern or jjp. Thought would never even cross my mind and would feel that something could always be worked out.

I think it has to do with chipping as they aren’t covering it and a few guys upset. I believe they will make all the right choices in the end.

#3196 6 years ago
Quoted from neverahighscore:

My new lucky T-shirt arrived today. I'll never wash it!

I want one where did you get it!

#3214 6 years ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

This happened to me as well. It was really tough to even pull the glass off, because the playfield was dropped into the cabinet and putting pressure on the glass. It took three of us to pull the glass off and get the playfield back into position to put the bolt back in. We checked the other side and it was loose too.

Guys can you explain more in-depth what bolt comes loose. This will allow us to add to problem list and all can make sure that bolt is tight so it does happen in the future. Who knows mine maybe loose so good to know. Pictures would help.

#3295 6 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

I'm a bit embarrassed to say I installed a full playfield protector when I got my AFMrLE a few months ago, and will leave it on. ( total newb move I guess, but I"m leaving it on to protect ) Will any of the playfield issues show themselves even though I have a PP? Like crazing or other issues... I'm thinking maybe I'm masking issues by not playing on it, and am thinking maybe I should find out before the warranty runs out.
Also, I have a blast playing the pinball machine, but I guess I really suck since I never put in my initials. I thought I was doing great with all the lights and sounds effects going off, but not so much... Is there a strategy I should start implementing to get a decent score?

Not a newbie mistake I have on two games and while different than without. The protector works! Can take off in minutes. Much harder putting on.

#3305 6 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

You're alone only in that you haven't had a negative experience with these new modern sissified playfield clearcoats yet. You will. It's just a matter of time. They're more brittle somehow and the level of hardiness seems to have little rhyme or reason. Edges are the easiest point of breakage, so covering edges with a cliffy is a smart hedge these days, and they're so thin I don't buy that they affect gameplay enough to matter (except on like KISS where the scoop is designed too small to begin with).

Well said. The new made Churchill playfeilds will show more wear. Doing nothing is just a worn playfeild.

#3352 6 years ago
Quoted from Mrawesome44:

So ive been following this thread for a good while and i was interested in picking any of the remakes up in may(fingers crossed). Frankly im a bit concerned about some of the issues people are having less than a year after they've dropped 7K+. I'm not trying to throw salt in no wounds but is anything being done about these issues?

Unfortunately I am in at $8450 in my MMRLE with color dmd upgrade and $8300 in AFMr le. I think that is a lot of money and with a LE I expect a premium product. I am willing to be patient but please don’t get ready to announce a new remake title game when you can’t produce the current titles correctly. How do you produce the plastics so the crack/craze? CGC should know this with PPS? All these little things add up to time to fix by the purchaser. It is like they don’t play theirs games they produce. Bending the wire form can be figured out by playing. Missing screws, loose bolts etc is lack of quality control.

#3353 6 years ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

did all my afmr chores today (apart from cliffies). plastic protectors rock!

Looks good. Your playfeild has orange not the “nude” screen mess up.

#3355 6 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Nature of the beast I suppose. The shooter lane in my 1 year old MMR was starting to look like my 22 year old TOM!
The true shame is that a lot of people (many right here in this thread) just accept it.

I agree I have no idea why they accept it. Like calling their kid ugly. They are worried on their “investment” so the are blinded by the truth. If CGC get these issues fixed our games last longer thus retain value.

#3356 6 years ago
Quoted from pintechev:

CGC doesn’t make plastics.
Tons of outside suppliers make pieces for Stern and CGC. Ramps, metal pieces, inserts, etc, all made in and around Chicago. CGC is really a cabinet shop at heart; they make things out of wood. And now, they assemble pinball machines. But look online for the tour from Expo. They are a woodworking shop at their core.

Yes I know but their partner PPS is in Williams/Bally part supply business and making plastics. When you assemble you are responsible for the parts you use and source.

#3357 6 years ago
Quoted from pintechev:

No cliffys anywhere.

How is your screening colors? True colors no planking lines?

#3360 6 years ago
Quoted from pintechev:

Absolutely they are. Good thing anyone who had an issue got replacement plastics.
But doesn’t s—t happen? Make enough games, things don’t always go according to plan, you correct and move on? I work on software and this is very much how it goes.

Software different than manufacturing as recalls can break your profitability in manufacturing. Software you issue a update. I still do both.

We have no idea how long the replacement plastics will last. I know of a new AFMr that had the same plastic issues we chatted on and a recent build date. Why would they not have corrected it?

#3412 6 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Which is it? You've said two different things on the same subject in the span of one page - you are showing damage.

There is damage! Wait until 6000 plays and compare to original. This game is less than 6 months old. It appears you are just one of the people that are willing to accept manufacturing issues no matter how bad. Yours will get worse and worse not better. You have to add a cliffy on the mother ship hole look at every original.

#3414 6 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

I'm still not convinced it's even physically possible for a clearcoat not to chip around the holes, that is why I wanted to see a picture of a playfield someone claimed is not damaged around the holes after a couple of thousand plays. I can see a polymer of some kind being durable enough ( tupperware ) but having it 'clear' and perfectly see-though makes it more brittle. If anyone knows of a playfield from any pin that has withstood a couple of thousand games, post a pic so we have a 'bar' to compare too.

Early Metallica right at 2000 plays. The recent Metallica’s showing early wear. Chruchhill/CGC made both. Something changed in process. Maybe EPA changes.

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#3415 6 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

Do you mean manufacturing issues as in they clearcoat can be improved? I'm thinking the more layers of clearcoat, the easier it will 'chip' on the edges, and the only remedy is metal cliffy type protectors. I'm interested to see an example of a pinball which has a long-lasting clearcoat that does not chip on the edges... I'm no chemist but I think the fact that the clearcoat needs to be transparent makes it much more brittle in its properties.

I agree the thicker the more it chips on the Churchill ones. No I meant the array of issues we are all seeing can be improved. I think they need a thiner clear coat like the orginal games. However Kruzman and HSA restores clear coat fields don’t do it. They are doing something different. They hold up. Even when you send them a remake playfeild that they remove the clear. I think it is the curing time between coats and the product they use.

#3417 6 years ago
Quoted from pintechev:

Wear in a non-visible spot isn’t “showing” to me. Could have been clearer, sure. I don’t care about the mothership hole.
I would have done it to SOL and will if it starts to show damage. But the mantis is doing a really good job there.
And every time I get a reject on my TAF due to the cliffy I get annoyed. I want the game to play right.
Marc

That is why you don’t use a cliffys on Chair hole on TAF. Many have done comparison on Cliffy, nothing and pinball fanatic. Don’t need a new debate on this dead horse.

http://pinballfanatic.com/products/addams-family-electric-chair-protectors/

#3418 6 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

Could it be that Kruzman is able to use chemicals/clearcoats that are not allowed when meeting EPA for manufactuing/getting insurance etc.? It's possible some paints/clearcoats fumes are more toxic than others.. and maybe CGC is 'greener'... i don't know

Could be. They both know the answer and have indicated it is how applied and drying times between coats not product. We may never know but clear coats can be done.

#3477 6 years ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

Yep! You Bet! If you don't like crappy quality playfields sell your game and don't buy anymore remakes or any other new in the box game! That is exactly the point! It also is a heads up to the guys that stop by here to get the latest info on a game they may want to buy! I have figured out that there is no NIB game that doesn't come with some risk. There are a lot of folks that believe that buying a NIB game means you get a new perfect game! You might or might not.

Well said! Well said!

#3478 6 years ago
Quoted from pintechev:

My boss said something pretty profound recently which was that the most important thing was to show up and have the conversation. Even if it doesn’t always go your way, it’s critical to participate.

Many of us aren’t having clear coat issues but other planking issues. Cliffy won’t fix anything.

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#3481 6 years ago
Quoted from pintechev:

Have you contacted CGC?

Yes. Awaiting playfeild status. Getting new plastics again. It is like a new car you want and expect it to look nice. To change topics is 2.0 working well for everyone? Seems no issues there.

#3491 6 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

What causes this planking? Is it from impact, or would this start appearing even if the playfield was sitting idle with no use?

It is planking as they are starting to come apart and open. I think it is the dry climate as all the ones I can see in Colorado are doing it. Had two friends sell theirs cause of it. We were assuming at first all are doing it everywhere but now I think a manufacturing issue on the dryness of wood and time between clear coats. Playing has no factor on it and will ge worse just sitting.

#3492 6 years ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

It's not planking. It looks more like poorly prepped wood was painted. That's what it would look like if it wasn't sanded perfectly smooth before painting.

Maybe but why is it getting worse? I have theories but it gets slowly worse.

#3501 6 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

What is your playfield number?

360

#3506 6 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

For everyone who has formed the opinion that clear chipping is acceptable or par for the course in today's pinball world, we'll see how quickly your tune changes if chipping ever starts to form at the switch slots.
I just played a MMR that had some chipping starting at the switch behind the castle. If that opens up, that is going to be bad news!
We're only two years into these remakes...

Snap some pictures!

#3514 6 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

Where do I get a picture of the remake playfield with the right colors?

http://www.hsapinball.com/HSA_PINBALL/hsa69afmcompare.html

Here are the original colors what the remake should have.

-1
#3588 6 years ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

....And you will like it! Complaint Dept. 555-5555 Don't call us we will call you!

Laughing at this one as that was good but true. Call it “artistic” differenes of work not a “mistake.” Hope my next JJP and Stern game the “screening artist” can replace the screening colors on the playfeild. Maybe instead of “green” the artist can use “red” instead on the screen product. Instead of “white” let’s use “brown.” It then can be unique like CGC. It will be like a surprise in the Cracker Jack box when you open your new game. Every game will be “artistically” unique on a possibly poorly prepped natural product or a really nice one. Just the luck of the draw! Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!

#3594 6 years ago
Quoted from kapsreiter:

don't have problems with some adjustments
but when i see this play fields
would not accept such a machine
but i hope the best

Issue is if you get one of those bad playfeilds you are on your own. Warranty is very discretionary. CGC warranty system is awesome on minor issues with quick shipping. Bigger items not so good.

#3595 6 years ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

Issue is if you get one of their bad playfeilds you are on your own. Warranty is very discretionary. Simple things CGC are awesome with!

#3596 6 years ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

Issue is if you get one of those bad playfeilds you are on your own. Warranty is very discretionary not in the owners court and Non transferable. CGC warranty computer ticket system is awesome on minor issues with lightening quick shipping. Major issues not so go good.

#3597 6 years ago
Quoted from misterD:

So, I'm new to this community and wanted to share a couple of pics. I just received my first machine and am super excited -- a NIB AFMRLE! Thanks to mschonbrun for all the advice, help, and pointing me in the right direction... and helping me to spend my $$$ Big shout out to and Suzanne @ Nitro Pinball, too!

Congratulations!

#3638 6 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

What are the black marks on the shooter lane? Am I the only one finding it hard to believe 90 games caused that damage, and CGC is not doing anything about it?

Guys they won’t do anything about it with a replacement. None of us would be posting if they did. The warranty is discretionary by CGC.

#3639 6 years ago
Quoted from neverahighscore:

I'm sorry about your playfield and I agree it should be replaced since it's not screened correctly. Instead of posting vague information about your issue over and over, could you be more specific about what CGC is or isn't going to do for you. I assume you put a ticket in for replacement. Has CGC given you a direct response yet on resolving the issue and any time frame. I apologize if I missed any of your posts with that information. That would be more helpful to owners and possible future owners. I would be upset if they didn't replace it. I couldn't have that playfield in my game and would do whatever I had to get it replaced. I wish you good luck and hope CGC does the right thing for you.

Fair enough and great question. We all get pm’s from our posts. I have also got a call from the Company asking me not to post even after I changed the topic twice. It is important owners and potential owners are aware. I will post all later when I have more time but short story I get to watch it for the next five years. The errors like the shooter lane, putty, clear coat and screen color issues they are calling “Artistic character” on a “natural product” which they think is 100 per cent fine and acceptable. Again do everything quickly on the small stuff and delay on the larger issues. That’s why I have friends just take the loss and sell their games. Others accept it and others like me think it is not right! More to come later!

#3640 6 years ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

Fair enough. We all get hate pm’s from our posts. We have also got calls from the Company asking us not to post. It is important owners and potential owners are aware. I will post all later when I have more time but short story I get to watch it for the next five years. The errors like the shooter lane, planking, clear coat issues and screen color issues they are calling “Artistic character” on a “natural product.”

#3644 6 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

The guy claimed that was damage caused by 90 plays. Not cool to spread that kind of false info. Your explanation makes sense. Why did he not tell us that is how it looked when he first uboxed it, and was not in fact caused by playing it. Potential buyers would be mislead into thinking the playfield chipped after 90 days and turned into the mess shown in the picture. If it was my playfield, ( and I had experience with a full collection of pins as the guy does ), I would have complained right away, on the first day, and not confuse this issue with chipping from playing 90 games.

Guys a lot people don’t look that close.

#3656 6 years ago
Quoted from chancegino:

I am opening a ticket with CGC but I thought I’d check with other owners too to see if anybody else had that this issue. Not sure if I’ll bother updating anybody since BitPatrol accused me of being a troll.

You are not a troll. Only in mmr

#3657 6 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

Just give Doug a call at CGC. I am sure he will have this taken care of within the next business day.

Next business day when?

#3659 6 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

Ok, but there is no chipping on his shooter lane, and he looked at it close when he took the picture, no chipping.

If you like it so much swap him games. I don’t want it. Bad quality control. They must not even look at their games when boxing up.

#3660 6 years ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

This is todays wisdom! These LEs are collector games! That's why people buy the LEs.

LE lately is the the “latest errors”

#3661 6 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

Seems simple. Call Doug on Monday and have him send out a prepaid return label and container for the defective playfield. Then, after this defective unit has been returned, ship a new populated playfield.

Only Stern and JJP does that on a populated playfeild. Seems simple to me.

#3662 6 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

uh, do you have a couple of hundred plays, or 90? 90 is even harder to believe. That can be reset as you know. Does it feel like you played 90 games, or hundreds? With all the complaints, we need to start backing up claims with facts, and not just negative stuff with no details. My playfield chipped ever so slightly at the mothership hole, but barely enough for me to be able to detect it. The type of chipping you are showing is so extreme.
Also, what is the black mark on your shooter lane?

You are first to mention chipping. Time to apologize to him. In his original post he called it wear.

#3669 6 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

What does CGC do? Tell their customers to go screw?

Tells them not bad enough to warrant a replacement play field. Planking, color differences, filler, clear coat issues is craftmanship on a natural product which is artistic character and these “are to be expected on a hand made product as each is one of a kind.” Not a manufacture issue under warranty. Warranty on playfeild is only 1 year on LE but that warranty is discretionary.

#3670 6 years ago
Quoted from Nexyss:

Can you post this response from CGC?
I am really happy with my LE, but if this was their response to this issue, they will definitely not have me as a customer in the future. There is no way in hell that a playfield filled in with putty in a visible area should have left the factory. I am really hoping that there is a misunderstanding here. That is just not acceptable.

I will tomorrow when I have a block of time. A lot of info. By the way the playfeilds are cedar and ash mix from a “secret supply source”.

#3671 6 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

If true, the company trying to hide issues by telling people not to share them with the community that may also be affected is not cool.

That is what made me so mad the more I have thought on it the last few days. Wanting to silent customers has never worked in any industry. The beauty of the internet. I am not stupid as I have 27 games currently and have sold around 75 others to get the games I like and want. I have bought new games from all major manufactures and have encountered issues. I bought the MMR LE and the AFM LE as an orginal owner with matching numbers. I also own both of these in originals which I have been comparing.

#3673 6 years ago
Quoted from PinLen83:

One of two things will happen: You'll be exposed as a liar and be called out on it, or, if everything you're saying is true...someone is going to lose a lot of customers. I believe I've said it before that stern will never get another NIB game out of me again. My wallet will also speak out against CGC for future purchases.

Yep I know. I have no reason to be called a liar as it is all verifiable. I was asked to post the info. In the end CGC will have to replace them all as this isn’t going away and more owners have had enough. Some have sold and moved on but others aren’t going away. What experience did you have with Stern? In the end they came through on Ghostbusters replacements after the buzz started to happen. On that one, my GBLE is still perfect. I got lucky but German playfeild protector day 1. On this one I am one of the unlucky owners. I would imagine the warranty replacement issue will change here shortly as people keep noticing the issues and posting. You know CGC/Churchill made Ghostbuster and Walking Dead playfeilds which both are in your previous owned on your profile. I assume it was one of the two or both. Be good to hear your issue or issues you had.

Look at text and pictures to see it in the below link. Walking Dead listed in “the multiple screens for various games” picture and so is GB.

http://www.pinballnews.com/learn/churchill/index.html

#3683 6 years ago
Quoted from abagwell:

Could someone copy and paste the support thread from a conversation like this with CGC? I'm really curious to read it.

That is the interesting part. They won’t post on the ticket system thread. You get a call from Doug. Some also Rick (I did not hear from Rick). Some have recorded these conversations. However after legal counsel they were advised that PPS is Nevada and need both people’s permission on phone to record so we’re immediately destroyed. CGC is Illinois which also is a two party consent state. Both of these states are the few that aren’t one party consent record as both have mob ties a long time ago in their history when these laws were created. Slick talking only over the phone to convince no issue. I wish others would post but are afraid. Not worth it in their minds. Take the $1000 to $1300 loss and move on. Then CGC off hook as second owner not covered under warranty.

#3685 6 years ago
Quoted from estrader:

Nothing really with the playfield, it’s the shooter lane. Just haven’t noticed one with the coloring like this before.
What is planking?

Planking is wood grain that starts to show. Can be from poorly prepared wood by lack of sanding or prep. Can be wood humidity was higher than current climate and did not cure/dry correctly. These lines get worse and split apart. In the picture you can’t see the splits like in person. This is not major but come on it is a relatively new game. Anyone have picture of major? I had a TZ that had it major once as game must have been next to a swamp cooler and then had a new home in dry Denver. The CFTBL and other picture are more major. This quote is from a six year old pinside post:

“Here is a pic of someones CFTBL that I found on RGP that has planking. Lenc Smith (LS) pfs are notorious for planking. Some of the worst ones were on TZ. You can spot a LS TZ pf just by looking at the door. TAG and Sun Products (SP) are the prefered pfs to have.”

Notice who they say is the playfeild manufacture to avoid. Lenc Smith now Churchill/CGC. Same building and all.

Topic here in full.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/planking-bsd

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#3691 6 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

The sheer number of questionable characters in this business never ceases to amaze.

I agree with you there. I ordered a part off eBay two weeks ago from a newer pinball seller with free shipping. Once I received it turns out our old friend at MAD amusements as he created a new alias again since most of us avoid from past experience. They sent the wrong colored part. After trying to convince me it was fine I provided original Bally game pictures. They did the right thing in the end. Sometimes just not worth the time. Should have just ordered from Marco and paid the shipping.

#3696 6 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

could it be they used varathane instead of clearcoat? ( like on basketball courts or bowling alleys )

From the playfeild gurus I have talked to no. That is on natural wood colored products as it goes into the wood is what I was told.

#3708 6 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

I am not sure if the folks who bought MMR and had to install a diffuser because of the shoddy print quality of the inserts feel the same way.
Then again, maybe most were cool with it.

Dialed in was not a good game when it come out based on code. Wow what they have done with it now. A great game. The theme isn’t my favorite but the programmers worked hard and listened to feedback. On MMR we gave benefit of doubt and just accepted it. Thinking the next game would be spot on. Like many are doing here. Do it right the first time.

#3709 6 years ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

back in the 90's we could use serious chemicals. Look at car paint also, my 16 year old M3's paint is better looking than my 15 month old M4.
Neil.

I think you are spot on!!! But other restore guys say it is the process. They sand off clear and re clear correctly and it lasts. Kruzman does it perfectly.

27
#3813 6 years ago

So here is the full version that was requested as it was a busy holiday weekend.

I put in my ticket on the CGC online system. I received an email and call promptly the next day, I returned the call the following day. The call was from “Doug” as he is referred to on this thread. He started the call off asking about where I live etc. His children live here and he went to College around here etc. Asked about my business’s etc. We then began the topic on the AFMr and the issues regarding the playfield. He said they would immediately send out the plastics and they use the same manufacture many others are using and not sure why they are having the issues. He said that the playfield manufacturing is mostly by hand. Only the routing is automated. It was stated they purchase their wood from a “secret source.” It is cedar and ash. I asked which the ball surface was. He stated that cedar was the playfield surface but said he may have that backwards. Since it is a handmade product no two are alike. I mentioned the color issues and was told that this was “artistic character” and was to be expected on a handmade product. They view this as completely acceptable. He said in their view they build the world’s finest pinball machines. They use a 13 layer screen process where Stern only uses a 5 layer process. Other playfield manufactures use a more automated process which they believe is inferior. I mention the wrong screen colors and again was told that is up to the “artist.” He said the inserts are also hand installed and also will be “unique” between play fields. I asked about the planking and he said it is not planking but was in the surface prior to screening from not being “a fully prepared surface” and that it would not get any worse. This is expected when you are dealing with a handmade natural product. I stated that it is getting worse. He disagreed. I also stated that I own many pinball machines and many of the recent pinball playfields were made in his shop and they aren’t doing this or look like that. I also stated my MMr LE does not look like this. I also stated I can’t find a AFMr in Colorado that is not doing this. Even the one at the local dealer looks like this. He stated that they have only received a few complaints and these artistic characteristics are to be expected and acceptable. He also stated that the Warranty is at CGC’s sole discretion and is only 12 months on the LE playfield which he was willing to extend to 5 years. (Medieval Madness 12 month’s electronic/6 months other, AFM CE, 6/3, AFM SE 12/6 and the AFM LE 24/12) He did agree to send me the diffusers that I could never get from my dealer on my MMR and that I could not get CGC to send directly to me in the past. At this point he went into pinside and the things people are posting on there. He said he has a few employees and friends on there. He said all these things are completely normal and people need to stop posting. At that point I told him I was a poster and had posted things on there. He said people need to understand we make the best pinball machines and this is not like manufactures issues. He said that I need to stop posting. I changed the subject and asked if they were going to send me an email in writing on what we chatted about. He said it will be in the ticket. At this point he brought up the posting again and began pressing that they do not want people posting issues. I finally had enough and politly said thank you for his time and I am looking forward to the parts.

After I hung up I felt like I was just bullied and smoothed talk to believe and accept what they are telling me. I immediately notified my dealer that I was uncomfortable with the solution.

Fact #1 The warranty is 100% discretionary by CGC and the customer has no recourse.

Fact#2 The CGC system is great for small items but large items are phone calls with no documentation. One can’t record a phone conversation with a person in Illinois or PPS in Nevada as you need all parties to consent to the recording. Many have recorded them but can’t publicly display them.

Fact#3 The product comes in a box. One can’t inspect a game until it is opened at that point one owns it and it is under the full discretion of CGC if they deem it is “defects in material or workmanship”

Fact#4 When I bought this game the sales sheet did not disclose that this was a handmade product and it would be different than pictured. It did not disclose that playfield chipping may occur, grainy lines and planking are acceptable, putty maybe in the shooter lane and colors will not match. When I buy a “remake” I assume it is going to look like the original that it was re manufactured from. This includes the correct playfield surface and colors. Chipping is not acceptable in my other games and should not be accepted here. If the above disclosure was made most of us would not purchase the product.

Fact#5 The sales sheet did not disclose that only the original purchaser is covered by the warranty and that "CGC, at its sole discretion, will be liable to repair or replace components which are returned to CGC during the warranty period. CGC will repair or replace any covered part at no charge, exclusive of shipping and handling charges or any labor to install the part. Unless instructed otherwise, all defective parts be properly packaged and returned to CGC freight prepaid…No one is authorized to make modifications to this limited warranty."

CGC or “Doug” will not fix these items immediately once someone opens a ticket as many believe. They do this only on small items. The customer is just talked to with a silver tongue. CGC is illustrating to consumers chipping, wrong colors, insert ghosting, planking, poorly prepped surfaces, and putty are all acceptable. They can increase the warranty 20 years if none of these issues are covered. Everyday for the next 4 ½ years I get to look at playfeild that looks like crap is the bottom line. If CGC is not going to Warranty their products on major issues then I will warn suspecting new buyers. We all are doing that. I wish mine looked like some of yours. I have had a few friends just sell their games and take the loss. It is the luck of the draw and you will never know what yours looks like until you open it. If new major issues emerge lots of luck.

I currently own 27 pinball machines which I believe are the top games and ones I enjoy. I also bought and sold around 75 games to find the games I like and ones that are in better shape with great mods. I am not a new person to pinball. I have bought games from every major manufacture and have never seen such a disregard for the customer. Don’t tell me you are the best but show me. No one would be posting on here if that was the case. I bought both the MMr LE and the AFMr LE from CGC with matching numbers. Few can claim that. I have talked to many other customers/friends that wont post on here that have moved on. I will receive hate emails and pm’s. Some of these are friends of the manufacture and others I assume are employees. If I too take the loss and move on, CGC is off the hook since it would be a second owner. Great way out. Only way to sell is huge discount as looks like crap. This is what they prefer one does. No more warranty liability for them. They are the only large manufacture that wont warranty the second owner during the original warranty period. CGC has a reason for that. No one posting has any personal agenda as we all have games only a few months old. I got lucky on GBLE but unlucky here. QC is not there. I want my game to look the way it should and the warranty to be the way it should. I am a pinball customer and I buy new games and share experiences with no agenda. This is a Buyer Alert!

#3814 6 years ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Con,
I know of disgruntled customers that aren't Pinsiders. The notion that everyone who owns a pinball machine is represented here is flawed. I also know of disgruntled customers that watch Pinside but don't post. Not everyone is as vocal as we are
Only CGC has the "real" disgruntled data. As a result, your claim isn't factual unless you have insider information.
Not trying to say the sky is falling, just that all of us really only know our own experience (with CGC). Everything else is speculation.
Intuitively, if the number of PF issues is *really small*, CGC would be foolish if they didn't take care of folks (since it wouldn't put a big dent in their bottom line). They are a fairly new company and their quality and approach to service is likely a work in progress.
snaroff

I agree if it was small just fix them. It is not small. It is the great cover up like on Ghost Buster LE. Issue here is it is the same manufacture. We blamed stern for that instead of the playfeild manufacture Churchill/CGC. Read the article I posted. https://www.pinballnews.com/site/2016/11/04/churchill-cabinet-company-tour/ Why does it say they were trying different clear coat mixes for ghost busters if everything is great. That article was not done at a good time for them as it turns out.

#3821 6 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Your experience sounds much like mine, though I feel your playfield issues are worse. I spoke with Doug today, and he also offered me the 5 year warranty. I told him a verbal warranty doesn't hold much weight, and I'd like to see something in writing that would breakdown the terms. A warranty that does actually offer anything to the customer, isn't worth the paper it's on (though at this point, it's not even on paper).
I told him I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt, and wanted to be a longterm collector of their games. He said there have only been 6 tickets opened up regarding pf issues, which means he either not telling the truth, or more people need to post their issues there, and not just here on Pinside.
This experience has made JJP looks so damn good, and have really left a bad taste in my mouth with CGC. We'll see what they come up with, but I highly doubt they're going to do what Stern or JJP would do, which is to get replacements out to people with truly defective pfs.
Doug said that the chipping issue will affect all games. These are his words. But for it to happen in less than 100 games, is not acceptable. I have chipping on every edge of my MMR, and you can check the dedicated thread, and see I never once made a complaint. Because it happened after over 1000 plays, and at that point, I just put on Cliffys and figured I'd learn from it.
I think CGC has a lot of people waiting to see how they resolve this, before they spend any more money with them. I am one of them. And I am hoping they do something for us that makes me want to be a fan again.

They maybe focused on possibly releasing their third game next month. Could be priced at $8300 including chipping, I mean shipping, and $900 for playfeild warranty. (They send you a backup playfeild) for a total of $9200.

#3823 6 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

I would say because it isn't even CLOSE to the original, and doesn't match the rest of the playfield color scheme. Nude laser fire isn't a thing, and the giant area between the flippers would be nude and...red? Also, the orange-red design on the plastics would not match the nude-red combination on the messed up playfields because the color scheme and design is on the plastics AND the playfield, and the plastics don't have the wrong color. No. Just...no.
You can see what I mean comparing an inlane plastic with the right color combination to one of the nude playfield mistake color combinations. They don't match.

It's not like CFTBL, where you have normal pink and hot pink - they're both pink variations. Nude has no relationship to orange. It's just wrong. I'd like to see picture of a whole playfield with this screening issue. I'm wondering if they grabbed the flesh tone from the woman by the flippers and just ran it on two layers of screening, forgetting to change the color.

This is best color guide. http://www.hsapinball.com/HSA_PINBALL/hsa69afmcompare.html Every AFM original I owned and were all the same colors on the playfeild. The cabinets faded on many. Also CFTBL had three different playfeild manufactures see my previous post on it on this thread.

#3824 6 years ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

This is best color guide. http://www.hsapinball.com/HSA_PINBALL/hsa69afmcompare.html Every AFM original I owned they were all the same colors on the playfeild. The cabinets faded on many.

#3840 6 years ago
Quoted from EricHadley:

I think this thread is being run by a few negative nancy’s and isn’t reflective of the overall condition of the machines being delivered.

How is yours holding up? Are you having planking issues? You know who I am and I know who you are and my name is not Nancy. When have I ever complained. I have not found one locally that is correct. Care to post you color and playfeild pictures? Thanks in advance.

#3841 6 years ago
Quoted from dashv:

Just for documentation. I recently received and setup my AFM LE (#21).
Out of box it had the following issues:
* Bolts for left flippers were rattling around loose in the table (below the playfield). Had to put back in and tighten with an allen wrench.
* Left Popper only worked half the time. Had to bend the bracket to "align" it properly. Now works 100% of the time. The bracket is pretty soft and didn't need much pressure to bend about a quarter inch.
* Yellow handle is hard as piss to lock. I still need to figure out how to adjust it.
* Main Saucer is badly scarred from where it was cut from the mold.
* Scorecard art was slightly scratched
So far Game Room Guys (the place I bought it from) has been awesome and helped me sort out the hardware issues.
I just created a ticket open with CGC for the cosmetic items, I don't expect to encounter any problems there.
I feel pretty lucky that my number was so low but the colors and playfield art all seem good to me.
Can anyone show me in a series of pictures or (preferably a video) what the hell I am supposed to do with the locking arm when the table is up? I'm probably missing something obvious but I read the manual and stared at the open table for 20 minutes last night and just could not figure it out.

Quality Control at its highest. Everyone should just be happy and accept it.

#3845 6 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

I'm starting to realize it's not as bad as it may seem in here, not that there are not issues, but why is the top 100 dominated by CGC? I'm happy with mine too, just looking for a perfect pinball It asked me for my initials for the first time today and played a special song at the end for me. I got $6,800,000,000 or something... what do all you nancies have to say about trying to top THAT score!

Vacation America is dominating the top 100. Remake any of top games and you will be on top until issues arise. AFM is a great game. I never would have bought the remake if I did think so.

https://pinside.com/pinball/archive/vacation-america

#3852 6 years ago
Quoted from EricHadley:

Ya I know, bought my TAF from you
Colors are fine. No planking. I installed Cliffies from day 1, always do on all of my games new and used. Mine is a little dimply, but I’ve learned to accept that and it does level out over time. Just need to play more!
Sorry you are having issues with yours, just saying this thread has become negative and I’m not sure that’s a fair representation of the machines being delivered. I’m sure there are some issues, always are with any manufacturer/game. I think pinball has proven variability and imperfection exists. Just strike a fair price deal with Doug on a new playfield and swap it out after you’ve played yours a ton.

Would love a resolution but they arent doing anything so that is resolution for them not for me. That is why people are upset. You would be upset if our positions were switched.

#3858 6 years ago
Quoted from Krsmith9:

Hi guys. My LE no. 888 arrived today. Anyone know what these are for?

Your colors look great to. They are what Wacky states. Congratulations!

#3860 6 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

you're missing the point... why are they voted the top 2 all the time? They are rated even higher than the originals they copy. I"m just pointing that out.

Newer games are always Higher in ratings on pinside. Time and over 600 posts is the real rating. Not even registering on the other top pinball lists.

#3861 6 years ago
Quoted from paynemic:

I’ll chime in. I’ve had a few issues with my LE and Doug has resolved them to my satisfaction. Somebody put a vote on this thread (owners only): “are you satisfied with your purchase overall?”
I’d vote yes so far.

Glad to hear. Interesting no one is posting that they have had zero issues. I have more new in the box games with zero adjustments and problems than I have had games with issues. Playing perfect right out of the box is high quality control.

#3867 6 years ago
Quoted from dashv:

K, That's actually what I did when I lifted it up to bend the bracket. I can't for the life of me see the notch (looking at the real board not the picture). Ah, well. Sounds like it's more trouble than it's worth anyway.
Now I just need to find out what the hell a cliffy is.

Hope it helps Cliff is a guy who makes a great product.
http://www.passionforpinball.com

#3868 6 years ago
Quoted from paynemic:

I had forgotten why I ignored the previous poster so I took him off the ignored list. Now I remember. So negative and condescending.

Reminder it is against pinside conduct to attack another member. He is expressing his view as are you. Ironically this is an Attack From Mars thread.

#3869 6 years ago
Quoted from dashv:

K, That's actually what I did when I lifted it up to bend the bracket. I can't for the life of me see the notch (looking at the real board not the picture). Ah, well. Sounds like it's more trouble than it's worth anyway.
Do I need to get this kit?
http://www.passionforpinball.com/AFM-thin/afm_thin.htm
I see my playfield already has some kind of thin plastic protection around most of the problem areas the ball grazes.

Yes get that. Make sure to state it is for a AFM remake. The thin film is Mylar. Leave that to.

#3873 6 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

In fairness, it appears that CGC's policies have placed Doug in a no-win situation.

I agree. According to the article he is VP of Business Development. I have a few companies and the VP is not the top of the corporate ladder. He is in a tough place just doing his job.

Fellow posters all just want an industry standard warranty on a $8000 game. The customers are not dumb. If they start covering large issues things will change and people will be posting praises.

First offering a warranty extension. If that doesn’t work then offering a reduced rate for a replacement part that should be covered under warranty. If that does not work then offering a replacement but can’t disclose it. That isn’t good business practice. The other manufactures don’t do these games.

The key here is only buy new if you can look at the game first. If you have a major issue your dealer is the only way you get anything currently. You need a strong and large dealer. If the manufacture makes the dealer mad they stop buying games or drop carrying the manufacture. The manufacture will always take care of the dealer in the end. Why not just take care of the customers first if you are the manufacture. That is business 101.

http://www.pinballnews.com/learn/churchill/index.html

#3875 6 years ago
Quoted from PinLen83:

For those who haven't sought refuge in their response from Doug, just know that your stories have already cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars in potential, and actual sales. This thread has changed the minds of at least a few dozen people who have skin in the game.
It's so sad. I really wanted this to work out. Mostly, I wanted them to kick sterns ass!

Well said. If it was only a handful of issues they would have replaced. It is much larger and they don’t want to honor it. I to was cheering CGC on. On my MMR le I was happy and did not believe the issues others were having. Now I know first hand. Can’t believe the excuses of “Artistic Characteristic.” In today’s enviroment social media is powerful for growing new products and to report less than acceptable results. Happy pinball and we will all move on to other topics in time.

#3878 6 years ago
Quoted from Arcade:

I understand the frustration if you got a wrong color playfield.
That would not set correctly with me either.
That said our game is in perfect shape and has played great since day one. Did not even have the ball shooting around Super Skill shot issue.
In fact the only issue we had with the game was that they packed in the wrong color legs with it. We got Silver legs with our green game.
However after opening a ticket, our green power coated legs were in the mail the next day.
Very happy with this game and cant wait to see Monster Bash.

That is good to hear except for the wrong legs. They just need a good set of standard operating proceedures to eliminate these things to get high quality control.

#3879 6 years ago

Now that is a score

#3885 6 years ago
Quoted from abagwell:

I haven't even broke 10B after putting that up, game regularly slaps me around.

Yeah isn’t that pinball for you.

#3887 6 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

After reading all this, think I will look for an original MB...

Off topic:
Smart man. Prices have dropped greatly and can get for $8000 to $8500 with no waiting. The ball beats that game. The drac trac and mosh pit had enough challenges in the original can’t imagine the new clearcoats with the softer wood. A must though for a color dmd. Find a great original or a perfect restore.

#3894 6 years ago
Quoted from Crispin:

I would like to thank everyone that has shared their experiences in this thread. I've lurked in the background devastated while I've watched everyone describe their issues from the flipper problem to the playfield issues. Not only did I sell my original AFM in anticipation of buying my 1st NIB LE but I also recently let my CCC go in a trade because I planned on buying the remake one day. Is there an award for the dumbest move in pinball?
When I 1st saw my friend Pete's AFMLE I was blown away and decided that night I would offer up my AFM for sale. I had the money in hand to pick up the game but this thread kept unfolding and kept me on the sideline. Then Pete told me his playfield has the planking as well and that killed it for me. Congrats to those of you who were lucky enough to score a game without issues. If CGC will not stand by their product and replace the wrong colors and planking playfields they will not be getting my money for both AFM and CC when made.

Ribbed or planking who knows. All I know they are splitting more and looks like crap!

#3931 6 years ago
Quoted from neverahighscore:

I think that is a great idea. If you're close to dealership, get game shipped to them and then have it setup to give it a full inspection before taking it home. I will do this for MBr.

Only way to eliminate the NIB surprise liability. Smart move.

#3932 6 years ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Bingo. If CGC disclosed that 5% of a PF "run" had the color issue and they were in the process of resolving these issues, case closed. Everyone happy. Shit happens.
Refusing to acknowledge PF issues clearly documented & identified by EXPERIENCED pinball collectors is unacceptable. Inexperienced pinball owners usually don't know what to look for.
snaroff

Yep! Well stated.

#3987 6 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

Hopefully, we hear from the distributors soon.
Do we know if the defective machines were purchased through a distributor or CGC?

Mine is a distributor and he is great! Working on it.

#3989 6 years ago
Quoted from Crispin:

I don't consider it hysterical to be concerned about something that might continue to get worse, it's my 8k. Hysterical would be my reaction to opening a box and finding I had to eat the playfield with the nude color and ribbed look under the clear.

Well stated.

#3991 6 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

Hopefully, we hear from the distributors soon.
Do we know if the defective machines were purchased through a distributor or CGC?

To many dealers/distributors that are posting on here recently. I know who many of you are and the biased agenda. This is an owners thread and let’s keep civil!

#3993 6 years ago
Quoted from wxforecaster:

After 22 years on the want list, AFM is home!! ckorth, one of the Cleveland guys is amazing (well TBH all of the Cleveland gang is amazing). Definitely in the top 5 pinheads I've met and that's going against some tough competition. Can't wait to get this setup. Loaded SE with the Lazeriffic topper! I'm giddy.

Awesome man! 22 years is a long time to wait. Congratulations! How fun. Enjoy and post some scores. Post some pictures of that topper!

#3995 6 years ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

no, but it didn't go all of the time, and would stop in places were you didn't want it to stop.
in anycase.
Just a reminder to pinsiders. let either agree or disagree amicably, and not assume everyone is out to insult each other or call each other a liar; as per the rules if you aren't going to post something that adds genuine value then don't post it! I like this group because its been so amicable lets not make it less so please.
Neil

I agree!

#3996 6 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

I just need a little help on the grammar.
What are you trying to say? What is the biased agenda?

Attack people and say everything is great! CGC can address the problem or deal with the PR storm. They decide the outcome.

#4002 6 years ago
Quoted from EricHadley:

You Colorado boys need to chill just bit

Yeah to cold right now outside.

#4004 6 years ago
Quoted from EricHadley:

I should invite you guys over for beer and pinball and we can sob over my nude playfield too, then play the F out of it

Sounds good!

#4010 6 years ago
Quoted from paynemic:

Here’s mine:
I’ve never owned an original so tbh I didn’t notice the difference till it was pointed out in this thread. It’s amazing to play though! Kicked my butt so many times today then I got 4 blue lights and felt I was on my way to rtu. Then... drain

It is light but not a a full nude but close. Full nude matches the girl. Your playfeild is nice no planking and high gloss.

#4012 6 years ago
Quoted from paynemic:

I actually have minor planking or ribbing or whatever but you can only see it at an angle and with certain lighting! Doesn’t bother me much as you can’t really see it while playing.

Yeah but it is starting. Is your climate dry?

#4018 6 years ago

Remake vs orginal

Orginal the true orange.
Notice buildings different in remake as is grey.

Also please note original has no deep dimples. (Please don’t start the dimple debate as it just proves the wood is softer today as documented by Kruzman and HSA)
FYI the original has no sunlight fade as orginal cabinet in perfect color.

D87CA804-3382-4303-B7F7-949667183705 (resized).jpegD87CA804-3382-4303-B7F7-949667183705 (resized).jpeg
9C4FC719-194F-4356-96F9-FAA4FDE4A1D3 (resized).jpeg9C4FC719-194F-4356-96F9-FAA4FDE4A1D3 (resized).jpeg

#4021 6 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

But it's all hand mixed silk screen paint. I would expect matching colors precisely is tough, but I don't know. Also, it's all hand-made so each one will end up being unique with faults and all, so CGC would have a hard time putting a 'mass produced' type warranty on it. It's just a guess but so much of this including the sanding/prep is a judgment call so it is hard to draw the line as to what you consider a fault. Either they are mass-produced in which case no flaws, or hand-made which means flaws, but I don't know, just a guess at this.

Yes but how did they originally match colors on the Bally games as there was little difference. Difference between years or manufactures of the playfeild for games like CFTBL that three different manufactures made but was still the correct color. I doubt they are mixing all 13 colors daily. They are buying these and ran out of orange. What about the other manufactures how are they matching the colors? On monster bash the colors are more important than afm. You have a second level of quality control on the other games such as stern or JJP. They inspected or reject the playfeild prior to installation. The rejects go back to the playfeild manufacture. With CGC they accept all which they feel are fine so the errors go into the games without the second layer of quality control.

I am still waiting to see a perfect CGC purchase experience. Everyone who said theirs were perfect have shown issues. A perfect game is zero issues even minor. On mmr there were plenty of perfect games. Seems quality control is down. This is why there aren’t only a handful of people with these issues there are many more. People just don’t know it until this thread.

#4025 6 years ago
Quoted from Nexyss:

I just looked at my game again after seeing other pics in the thread, and my orange is definitely orange. Sorry for the glass on pics. There is a crazy kitten here, and I didn’t want to introduce her to the playfield.
The second pic was supposed to show the mothership hole, but I failed. I can’t see any chipping. The third pic shows a really nice shooter lane.

Yours looks really nice. Congratulations. I wish mine looked like that. Great shooter lane. Did you have any minor issues or plug n play right out of box with no issues after?

#4034 6 years ago
Quoted from Higloss67:

Is that yellow strip going through the building supposed to be orange? I have now seen orange, nude, and yellow in that area.

Yellow from the ship...the colors are off elsewhere when you start comparing. Below are from an original.

BB26C70B-B5F5-4393-92B5-E2E41D45AC48 (resized).jpegBB26C70B-B5F5-4393-92B5-E2E41D45AC48 (resized).jpeg
41E74A96-ECEF-45E0-AE14-9B03E3244B5A (resized).jpeg41E74A96-ECEF-45E0-AE14-9B03E3244B5A (resized).jpeg

#4043 6 years ago
Quoted from markp99:

Colors off, AFMr is unplayable.

That’s taking it too far.

#4044 6 years ago
Quoted from Rum-Z:

I don't think the colors vary widely overall when compared to an original. The nude color substitution for THE orange is the only real issue. CGC should make a special apron with exclusive nude model graphics or something to that effect. Maybe some nude people running while a saucer beams up a stream of their clothes with someone yelling "THEY STOLE OUR CLOTHES" to send out to customers with the nude color issues. Make it special edition if they're not gonna substitute a normal colored playfield.

Best idea yet!!!

#4045 6 years ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

Though I agree that nude laser blasts are odd looking and make little sense in the world as we know, the "colors are off everywhere" is only true if your comparing to the original. However the "colors are off" in general terms is subjective, as I would argue that the trees look more green in the remake which looks better IMO. To me, I don't care if it deviates from the original (that's why I picked up the LE and not a classic model), as long as it looks better and of course that is all a matter of opinion.

True. Everywhere was a stretch. Else where better statement. Thanks for the catch. What is the high score for today?

#4047 6 years ago
Quoted from Higloss67:

Just saw a Denver CL ad for an original AFM and the colors in question look yellow.
denver.craigslist.org link

Yeah that is Gilberts and very sun faded. Lots of luck as needs a lot of work.

#4092 6 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

Is it possible MB goes up in the pinside top 100 if the remake comes out? I'm trying to decide if I'll plan on getting MMr or MBrLE. AFMr, MMr and MBr are all similar in game layout ( fan ) and I don't think I have room for all 3, only 2.

As I said before the reason the last two CGC remakes shoots to top list is a lack of the number of reviews. New games always start higher and drift over time. We all love these games as both were in the top 10 to start with. You have 90 new people get games they all rate high. Takes over 600 reviews to have a true rating. Owners usually rate higher. Former owners lower and people who play on location or at a friends usually are the best reviews. Again on all the others rating lists CGC remakes is not different than original. Afm game play is great and warranty issues will never change that.

#4135 6 years ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

It would be great if everyone who had a playfield issue post an update so we can all know how CGC handled it. For example, the putty and black shooter lane, which by the way, was also misrepresented as having been caused by chipping somehow in that podcast link above.
If anyone still has a chipping issue that has not been handled by CGC, can we can a picture of the whole playfield and an update please?

To my knowledge they are doing nothing but I will check and post update. I have been away this week and busy when back.

#4352 6 years ago
Quoted from EricHadley:

AMEN! Thank you

No, no problem is not solved and it is a myth they are solving them. Posting was repetitive so I stopped as the this thread is to discuss AFMr in general not problems solely. Stating the same thing time after time never helps. I get tired of so many trolls trying to silence legitimate issues that are clearly distributors or have a vested interest. Gets old after awhile. I am just a pinball player and enthusiast that had a less than ideal experience. CSG is delaying by pushing under the rug and focusing on the March pinball festival in Texas. Maybe a new release. 5 year warranty though but nothing in writing but still have open ticket that mentions it! Warranty however clearly states "No one is authorized to make modifications to this limited warranty" as legal counsel pointed out today.

Please PM me as currently exploring a class action lawsuit being filed in Federal Court looking for others.

7412AB11-2C8C-4BD9-9BB9-AE97B0021D08 (resized).jpeg7412AB11-2C8C-4BD9-9BB9-AE97B0021D08 (resized).jpeg

#4354 6 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Are you the one with the bad shooter lane...please remind me....

No planking issues and color. Guys the guy with shooter lane did post better pictures that explained more. Issue is the same if color, planking, clear coat issues or putty as it is poor quality control and not honoring warranty on major issues. Stern sent out populated playfeilds other manufactures have given another playfeild for these type of issues.

#4363 6 years ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

You have nothing to worry about. The issues are claimed by a few Pinsiders only. With respect, the photos could be from any AFM and not necessarily from an AFMr.

My ticket number is 1999. Lol you talk about people posting to much you need to stop as you know that is completely false. I have a AFMr LE and most posting are either LE’s or SE’s. I bought matching numbers as my MMr LE which I was the original owner. I have 27 games how many do you have? It is strange your profile is hidden on those facts and you are following CGC Doug.

#4364 6 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

I wouldn't worry to much about the color issues, this was likely an isolated problem that effected a small number of boards; however, I will be greatly concerned if the leadership team at Churchill Cabinet Co. (aka Chicago Gaming Co. (CGC)) doesn't make this right and honor their warranty for the folks that have been adversely effected by this problem as it tells me they don't care about their customers needs to receive a product free of defects.
Additional thoughts...handmade items are NOT mass produced; legally there is no way that CGC can use the term "hand made" or "artistic differences" for these pinball playfields as they are not hand painted, they are mechanically produced using silk screens and a pre-defined color pallet, the people making these are not artists, they are assembly line workers.

Well said. Very appropriate post.

#4369 6 years ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

What if he had 28? Would that have made is opinion more or less worthy then if he only had 5?

Nope not at all but why hide the games one owns. He is claiming others don’t own games or know what they are talking about. All I am stating is I have experience like many of you and not new to this rodeo. I have never had this experience with a manufacture.

#4371 6 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

You have no idea if thats true or not? Just out of curiosity do you even own this game? The reality is buying any NIB pinball game comes with a level of risk. The manufacturers are already reaping the rewards since they rarely offer any service, which is where the big costs are. They all rely on end users doing all the work so when a big issue comes up they need to step up to the plate. If I was a customer who unfortunately had major play field issue, and the manufacturer blew me off I would be irritated as well. If the customers in question (and I'm not one of them) don't come to some mutual resolution then I hope they sue their ass as its total BS.

Exactly how feel. I would been happy if CGC asked for additional pictures to better understand the issue. You are limited on the upload amount of pictures by size limits. I just get a silver tongue. I am supporter of all pinball manufactures. That said if I buy a new truck and it leaks oil. I expect for it to be fixed. I know there are always issues when building products but you make the issues right not stating “artistic character” and “hand made on a natural product.”

I am done defending myself and posting for awhile as being repeative. What is the high score for the day? I haven’t played yet as been playing Champion Pub and STTNG tonight.

#4373 6 years ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

Fair enough, but I know there are guys that only keep a few games, but buy and sell every game that comes out. So its not a one-size-fits-all metric. Just saying.

No I understand your point but if you buy and sell you might own two games but 8 would’ve in your history. Shows experience as was the point. Having nothing there is suspect and following Doug at CGC. All posts are “cheerleader” posts.

05590679-E8B6-4EB4-ACCA-E07A215D94E3 (resized).png05590679-E8B6-4EB4-ACCA-E07A215D94E3 (resized).png

#4376 6 years ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

Yes I own a AFMrLE. Do you own one? This is an owners thread so I hope you do, if not and out of respect to owners take your comments elsewhere.
We are a NIB buyer and have bought plenty over the last 7 years. We have had every issue from small to large (playfield replacement) and every manufacturer has resolved all our issues, including CGC. You guys are just creating BS for no reason.
And yes, I question all the photos put up on this thread. How do we know they are genuine?

Yes I do own a AFM LE as posted many times. “We” (you referring to actual owners) aren’t creating BS. There would be no BS if issues resolved quickly as “we” all hoped would happen. You are the one that keeps talking about it as I tried to change topics many times. I don’t want to beat a “dead horse.” (You can tell the difference on the pictures by the leds on the originals) If you got a new playfeild swap why can’t we?

#4381 6 years ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

I have no issue with you. I have said this many times, I hope you get a resolution soon. CGC did not give us a playfield replacement. Stern did. We had a blown solenoid board and the issue was dealt with straight away. What I do have an issue with is people that do not own a AFMr posting BS on an owners thread.

If you go back the ones you are accusing have posted pictures of their games either NIB or after adding mods and sharing with all. I wish I could get a populated playfeild swap but it is “not” going to happen from CGC. We are all realizing that. I have had friends sell their AFMr at loses and just moved on. New buyers of NIB games are then walking right into the storm if they don’t check prior to taking ownership.

#4415 6 years ago
Quoted from EricHadley:

It’s a fun game for sure! I picked up a super nice Micro playfield that if need be I’ll swap into mine some day but so far so good.

Now that is insurance and stepping up to the plate.

#4416 6 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

I just played Alien and that game is fun as hell. Congrats!

I know AFMr thread but please post link to other thread or post picture here want to see you new game.

#4418 6 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

You talking about the Metallica im getting? I get that tomorrow.

Sure but was talking his new Alein. I have had the LE and currently have the standard. Both great games. I still wish I had both. They play very different. You get le/premium or standard?

#4428 6 years ago
Quoted from pintechev:

Shooter lane issues have been resolved per Doug’s last post. Please don’t post misinformation.
If someone has a shooter lane issue, please file a ticket so you can get fixed too.

I think he was referring to the shooting lane playfeild issues not the auto launch issues which have been resolved by a solution.

#4429 6 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Oh ok im sorry, i thought you was talking to me. I got the Premium. Im very excited and cant wait. Ive played a pro model but not a Premium.

Cool you doing any mods to it?

#4430 6 years ago
Quoted from EricHadley:

Yeah, interesting to note I compared colors and the Micro seems to be much more accurate. Most notable when comparing to the nude color on my CGC. But again had I not known of the issue from this thread it’s unlikely I would have ever noticed. Luckily other than that my playfield continues to be ok, no planking as far as I can tell.

Yeah Mirco seems to have their colors spot on and no planking issue. Linc Smith (now Churchill/CGC same location) was always known for their planking on many games including Creature from the Blacklagoon. People avoided the LS playfeild as they mostly began planking. Same on Twilight Zone. How long did it take to get the extra playfeild after ordering? I have another friend that bought a spare playfeild. I bought a mirco for my cactus canyon and it is awesome. It just doesn’t sit right with me to buy a new playfeild for a game that is under warranty but maybe that is the only solution besides legal. I feel it is letting the manufacture off the hook on their warranty obligation. That said I would have zero worry on planking or colors on the replacement. All I can say is you stepped up to the plate and have zero worries now.

#4431 6 years ago
Quoted from estrader:

So you don’t know exactly how many but you know they are all loved and played. How you even know 60 or 70 people with this game is beyond me but the last part I don’t know how you could possibly know if all those games are played and loved. It’s comments like this that make you seem suspicious.

The distributor in Australia knows where all are.

#4450 6 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Met is a great game...just my two cents but the mods I would get are: shaker - sucks it doesn't come with one (a must in this game), color dmd (its great in this game), and cliffys in the critical areas.....

The shaker is no brainer. I got mine for $89 and it was plug and play. Spider-man was easy but a bit more work. Cliffys a must. Some of purple Armour is cool but I did not do it. Dmd color is always great. I agree with you completely my picks to. Glad to see you are installing. There is a video out there on the shaker if needed but really easy. No need to go into backbox like instructions say.

#4451 6 years ago
Quoted from kapsreiter:

i am working at a nice mod
» YouTube video

Cool tell us more?

#4490 6 years ago
Quoted from EricHadley:

I hear ya on buying a new playfield for a new game, shouldn't have to. But I have a playfield sickness, I have stacks of them and I think at least 1 spare for every machine I own. Sometimes I like to sit there and just stare at a unpopulated playfield......so pretty my precious......lol
To carry my sickness even further I ordered a Mirco Monster Bash this morning, another beauty to stare at and hopefully a spare soon.........
I ordered the AFM playfield on Wednesday the 21st and it was delivered Monday the 26th, very fast direct from Micro. First time I bought one direct vs a US distributor.
Agree Micro's are nice. I put one in my STTNG, unfortunately it was my first playfield purchase and swap and there were a couple flaws I didn't spot with my inexperienced eyes, but not bad and super nice compared to the old one.

Are you having Kruzman sand off the clear coat and apply his process? Guy did that here locally on his monster bash mirco and it is amazing.

#4492 6 years ago
Quoted from frankmac:

No blemishes on this play field .
Happy Friday everyone !!

No planking or chipping there! That one I wish is nude instead of orange or green.

#4493 6 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

If that's the way, why not just have Mirco send un-cleared printed playfields. Seems like it would save work and yield better results.

Yeah never thought of that and did not know they offered that; might be a brilliant idea. Also has anyone inquired if Mirco has the dimpling template for the AFMr or can make a template? Would make life easier for a quicker playfeild swap. The playfeild after Kruzman is spotless and clear is hard as nails.

#4496 6 years ago
Quoted from estrader:

Picked them up yesterday and might install tomorrow. I’ll pm you pics if you want as I don’t want to deal with the pinstadium police.

Heck with the police as please post as I was thinking of doing of the same. What color? Color changing?

#4500 6 years ago
Quoted from GorillaBiscuits:

I installed them, they work really great. I added red to the tint to warm everything up since I replaced all the GI bulbs with cool. It makes for a nice contrast. Not doing a before as it always looks darker than it really is, and I don’t want to be called that guy haha. Anyways, highly recommended as I do play in the dark and it made a big difference!

Man those look really nice. Did you buy the kit or make your own? Thanks for posting.

#4501 6 years ago
Quoted from estrader:

This is my 6th pair of them. I have them on all my games. Makes a huge difference and you wont need invisiglass anymore. I would do the uv glow as its pretty amazing especially on my dialed in and medieval madness. You can change the color of the lighting with the app.

I think it is the best mod. Removes dark areas. I have a home version for years on my Sttng. I want to add to all.

1 week later
19
#4635 6 years ago

Update. Thanks everyone for your support. I will no longer be posting on this forum as I no longer qualify. CGC got off the hook again. Since doing nothing (except verbally extending a flawed warranty that they won’t do anything on now that they have full discretion) for an extremely defective product that had playfeild planking, I did what many friends and pinball enthusiasts did and sold my AFMr LE and took a heavy finacial hit. Some of you stated “that Doug and CGC will take care of you” were wrong like many others have posted. The new owner is willing to install a new AFM mirco made playfeild that has fabulous colors and no planking. These defective games fetch between $6500 to $7200 which puts downward pressure on the price and resale value. Since I sold the game the warranty is not transferable and CGC has no obligation to warranty their product. They win! I wish I had a game I enjoyed but every time I played the game it made me upset at the product with the low quality playfeild. It began to wear on my enjoyment of pinball and when many of us were forced to explore legal action I began to ask why is this worth it? Time to move on. I wish my game looked as fabulous as some of you. That is the product and quality I expect. I strongly believe climate and clearcoat drying issues had something to do with the planking. It was best to move on. I will avoid buying any product from CGC until they provide an industry standard warranty and take care of their customers on major issues instead of talking with a silver tongue. Quality control is not there. I bought the MMr le and matching number AFMr le and was a loyal customer. They now have lost another customer just like many others that have sold and took the hit to move on. Buyer Beware! Best of luck to all those that have minor issues unlike myself. My favorite posts are the brilliant mods and creative ideas many of you have. I will watch this thread but do not qualify to post anymore. Adios Amigos!

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