Attack From Mars Remake (AFMr) Owners Club

(Topic ID: 192072)

Attack From Mars Remake (AFMr) Owners Club

By Pin_Guy

1 year ago

Topic Stats

  • 6,408 posts
  • 417 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by pghpinfan
  • Topic is favorited by 205 Pinsiders


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Topic index (key posts)

26 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #1 PinGuy's links to unboxing and SOL potential issue. Posted by Pin_Guy (1 year ago)

Post #5 SOL protector issue Posted by Pin_Guy (1 year ago)

Post #73 LED info Posted by stpcore (1 year ago)

Post #145 Cliffy install info Posted by evh347 (1 year ago)

Post #149 Firmware 1.0.0 Posted by Pin_Guy (1 year ago)

Post #189 info on using AFM cliffys Posted by GorillaBiscuits (1 year ago)

Post #357 Topper connector issue Posted by LTG (1 year ago)

Post #366 Image of Cliffy addition to scoop. Posted by sparechange1974 (1 year ago)

Post #368 Cliffy install info Posted by sparechange1974 (1 year ago)

Post #494 LCD screen info Posted by spazzman90 (1 year ago)

Post #639 workaround - to drooping shield targets Posted by markp99 (1 year ago)

Post #1966 Info on Easter eggs Posted by bigd1979 (1 year ago)

Post #2062 cliffy saucer install. Posted by PDFVT (1 year ago)

Post #2201 Urgent attention to flipper strength rates message from CGC Posted by NeilMcRae (1 year ago)

Post #2952 speaker lights for AFMR classic Posted by Lermods (1 year ago)

Post #3001 SOL PIC Posted by Damien (1 year ago)

Post #3167 Picture of crazed plastics defect on AfMr Posted by Onwallst (1 year ago)

Post #3174 list of issues Posted by Onwallst (1 year ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#121 1 year ago

Anyone know when the LE's will start shipping?

#138 1 year ago

Is it just me, or does it seems like CGC should have been well aware of these issues from the original game, and could have easily come up with something to put it place to prevent it?

I'm in for an LE, and the more I see this sort of stuff, the more I wonder if it's worth it.

I have had a load of issues with my MMR right out of the box, and if I go down the same road with the AFM, it will likely be my last CGC purchase.

#140 1 year ago
Quoted from Plunger069:

Good luck with the LE Damien. It is so frustrating paying 8k for a toy to have it start falling apart in a month.

I'm going into this with optimism. Hoping that the AFM works nicely out of the box, so I can enjoy it for a while before I need to start reaching for tools.

So far with my MMR, I've had to repair both flippers, the castle multi ball door has completely dropped off, one troll has come loose, the castle drawbridge was not working for a while, the ball guides are totally off, and I still haven't managed to get them playing the way it did when I first got it, etc, etc, etc... I get that these are all minor things, but as a first time owner, it's pretty frustrating.

#146 1 year ago
Quoted from toasterman04:

I would like to pipe in to say that My service with CGC has been amazing. The machine played great right from opening it up, and i had to do a service call that i thought was an issue, but turns out it was me not knowing how to get through the menu. But they answered my warranty ticket within 24 hours of it being created, and didn't stop till I had all my answers met. I did a service request to Stern 6 day ago and still have heard nothing. I said screw it and found a fix around it.
The quality of my AFMR and the service I have received so far from CGC has me saving my money for their next remake without a doubt. just my two cents.

I'll add to that... Despite the fact that I think it's rather annoying to get a new machines with all of these little issues, anytime I have had an issue Lloyd and Doug at CGC have been right on it. I actually think Lloyd is an AI pinball tech, because no human being should know that much about anything haha!

And that is actually why I bought AFM... Even though I had my doubts, the service kept my confidence to make another purchase.

1 week later
#166 1 year ago

Waiting on my LE, and just curious to hear from owners how the game feels in respect to build quality.

Also, how is it compared to the original AFM? Had someone tell me the original flows better and feels stronger.

Just interested in hearing from anyone who has received theirs already.

#168 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

Like a tank. Lots of games rolling out. Hardly any tech calls. Mostly new owners asking set up questions.

It's crushing my original here. customers love it.
LTG : )

Good to hear. Just heard that comment about quality, and wanted to see if there was any validity to it.

Would you say the build quality is better than MMR now that CGC is doing their own production?

#170 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

CGC really is doing an amazing job.
LTG : )

Glad to hear. If AFM is a hit, I'll be saving up for the next remake

#203 1 year ago

It would be awesome if someone could do a video tutorial on how to install each Cliffy. Anyone up for that?

#239 1 year ago

Can someone tell me the exact height of the topper... I'm stating to worry that it's not going to fit my low-ass ceilings!

#241 1 year ago

Anyone have the exact height of the topper?

#247 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

10 inches add a couple more for Martian hopping up and down.
LTG : )

Dammit! I only have 10.5" of clearance. Hmmmmm, might have to take out a piece of the drop ceiling

#250 1 year ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

My guess would be Ripleys or MMR.

I'll bet you'll be OK. The little green guy may bang his head on the ceiling a bit, but that serves him right for stealing our women!


Quoted from markp99:

Lift the house. Done.

I told my wife it's time for a new house!

#296 1 year ago

Is there any advantage to getting later shipments on these games? For example will some of the issues be ironed out before later shipments are sent?

#298 1 year ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

Mine is rock solid, not sure there are any issues to iron out.

Even little things like SOL protector being installed too low...

2 weeks later
#481 1 year ago

Just got my LE, set it up, and balls are not loading into shooter lane. Flippers aren't working. I'm lost!

The game is on, music and lights going, and the target bank keeps going up and down and the gates keep clicking.

Did I miss something on the install? I plugged it in, loaded balls...

Help please!

#486 1 year ago
Quoted from pintechev:

If the target bank is cycling it sounds like the game is not reading some switches. I would take the glass off and get into switch edge test and let us know if the game is able to read the playfield and cabinet switches and report back.

Went through the entire game and disconnected and reconnected everything.

Then I got a quick reply from Lloyd (LTG) at CGC and he helped me diagnose the problem. It was the metal bracket on the coin door that depresses the high power interlock. The bracket was bent inward, not pushing it down enough. Game is up and running and looks, sounds, and plays beautifully!

CGC (namely LTG of course) has impressed once again. Super fast responses, and great knowledge. I'm already saving up for the next remake!

#498 1 year ago

I noticed a bunch of hairline cracks on my plastics, and know I've read about them in previous posts, so I was curious to hear how you all got it resolved?

#504 1 year ago

Set up at 6.6 degrees, and this thing is a drain monster! What are you guys dialed in at?

#509 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Thats just afm.... its much more difficult than mm especially the outlanes..... mine are still at factory in the middle and you really have to nudge alot.... or make your shots lol.

I just finished BKTK for the second time last week, and figured I'd do well on AFM... NOT!!! Game is kicking my ass hard!

Quoted from bigd1979:

I have my original set around 7-7.2 degrees
... it plays mean for sure

I know with MMR, the outline drains lessened slightly by moving it from 6.5 to 6.7/6.8. Might try this on AFM.

#510 1 year ago

I thought the rules of AFM would be very similar to MM, but seems they aren't (from my first few games at least).

Would Total Annihilation be comparable to Royal Madness?

I'm so used to stacking the Madnesses and then starting the multi ball, but doesn't seem to work the same way in AFM. Also, I got a 2 ball multi ball from the Martian Attack, but have no idea how it even started haha. Do you just kill the Martians and then hit something to get it?

And what starts Strobe? Seems I've only gotten it from SOL.

Awesome game though!

#518 1 year ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Yes, complete both ramps and both orbits 3 times to start it.

It starts from the SoL hole when lit, it can be lit either by a SoL award or by hitting all the "MARTIAN" targets. You get the multiball by hitting all four martians. This is a good mode to activate TA multiball on.

Is there anything similar to MMR where you hit everything 3 times, and then can restart Multiball by hitting 5 trolls?

Also, I'm certain I've had a couple games where I've stopped all 4 martians from hopping, and I did not get a second ball.

#520 1 year ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Perhaps the fourth one may have stopped from reaching the time limit to hit it; that should be the only way to stop them from hopping without getting a second ball in play.

Hmmmmmmmmm, I'll have to pay closer attention.

Do all shots to the UFO in Multiball count towards the total to save each country?

#524 1 year ago

Just played a few games, and either the 3 lights in front of the target bank are messed up, or I'm lost.

Looks like the first saucer takes 3 shots to the target bank, then 3 shots to the inner Target to defeat the ship.

But from there, the lights really don't seem to indicate how many shots are needed. Am I missing something?

Also, during multiball the shots don't seem to count against bringing the target bank down, but if it is down, the ship takes hits.


#526 1 year ago
Quoted from spazzman90:

Sound like you are getting it.... There is a bit more to the saucer than number of hits. It has a power bar like from the old street fighter days, and this is only indicated on the screen between hits. Shooting it up the center causes damage. If you notice there are 2 side targets along with the drop up there. If you hit one of the targets, you get damage. If you can hit 2 of the targets in one shot up there, you get 2x damage. If you can hit all 3 up there in one shot you get 3x damage. Only way to see progress is on the screen when it is available. Of course you have to do more damage as you advance saucers.
As far as multiball and not bringing down the force field. Yes, that is also correct. This is where some strategy is involved and you should take care not to start a multiball with the force field up. Great rules from Lyman, and what has kept this a top tier game. Good luck.

Fantastic explanation!

I have to untrain myself from playing some much MM. I thought the rules would be pretty much identical, but I'm very pleased to find out they're not.

AFM seems significantly more challenging so far. We'll see as I get more familiar with it.

I've gotten TA a bunch of times, but still not exactly sure how I did hahahaha.

#527 1 year ago
Quoted from spazzman90:

Yes. You need to alter your incandescent emulation in the CGC menu.

What do that do by changing it to incandescents?

#545 1 year ago
Quoted from Dr_Smith:

Just got my LE today and noticed two bolts and a thingamajig loose in the bottom of the box that I'm at a loss to figure out what they are for. Any ideas?
Also, what's the blue plastic thingy for that was in the bag with the power cord cover?

Congrats on getting your game! It's pretty awesome!

The blue thingy is a flipper gap tool. You'll use this if you ever adjust or repair your flippers. For now, just put it away.

The two screws should have been accompanied by a black metal plate, and that goes on the back of the cab to cover the opening for the power supply.

#546 1 year ago
Quoted from MattS:

Anyone else get airballs off the green standups on either side of the 3 bank or the posts?
Even with the flipper power turned way down I get significant airballs.

I've actually been getting more airballs than I'm happy to report. I had one yesterday that went down the inlane, hoped the bar and ended up in the outlane. And then a bunch coming off of that green target by the ship and bouncing back fast to a center drain. That's my only complaint so far, aside from the hairline crack on some of the plastics (but CGC has asked me to open a ticket ro get them replaced, so that should all be fine).

#570 1 year ago

Had to walk away from the game today... Maybe I got to used to MM... Maybe I just flat out suck at pinball... But the drains in this game are absolutely punishing!

My average score is like 2-3 billion... Get my ass handed to me haha!

#575 1 year ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

Ditto this game!!!

When I look at the scoreboard on Pinside, and see guys with 80-100 billion, I'm like f#$& pinball!

My best score so far is 10 billion!

I created a post comparing MM to AFM, but now that I have both, I can definitely say that there differences are greater than the similarities... Even though they definitely have a LOT of similarities!

#579 1 year ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

I like MM a lot, but AFMR smokes it, imho.....I haven't even made 9 billion yet, so don't feel bad....this machine is just a blast to play, but ruthless....I shall play better!!!

So I'm not the only one getting beat down by this machine haha!

I feel like any shot to the in the centre of the pf (posts, target, ship, etc.) has a 50% of heading straight down the middle. And anything that hit the slings is about the same, but right down the sides. It almost feels like the outline is twice as wide as the inlane, and the ball rarely ever bounces inside.

I have to play around with the angles a bit to find where I enjoy it best. Right now I have it set to 6.8 degrees. Is this normal though... Even though I align my digital level where the factory bubble level is at 6.8 degrees, when I move it up above the slings, I get like 6.3 degrees, and even less the higher I go.

So where is the "true" slant measured from? If you want "true" 6.5, where is that supposed to be?

#593 1 year ago

Question for anyone with a green LE. My lockdown bar locks like it was painted with a brush. It's not smooth like the gold on my MMR, you can actually see the lines through it.

Is this normal?

#605 1 year ago
Quoted from markp99:

I did, but 1.5 to 2 turns on the lockdown bar screws took care of it 100%

Tighten or loosen? Having same issue.

#606 1 year ago
Quoted from frankmac:

Green lock bar.

Hmmmm... Definitely looks a lot smoother than mine. I'll open up a ticket. In the interim, I have some martians to take out!

#622 1 year ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

FYI Cliffys drainhole protector fits on AFMr, the drain hole on This game can take a beating.

Did you have to take anything off to install it?

I'm about to order a set of Cliffy's for the game, but haven't found a lot of details on the install of the drain and shooter lane protectors.

The protectors under the ship have some instructions on his site, but they're kind of crappy.

#644 1 year ago

Noticing already, with about 100 plays on the game, that there is very noticeable chipping around the edges of the lock hole. Is there any sort of protector available for this? Pretty disappointing to have them put a protector on the SOL hole, and not one here. I personally think for the prices we're paying, all companies should be putting these on games nowadays.

#648 1 year ago

Spoke to Cliff, and he said his protector set from the original game cane with a protector for the drain hole behind the ship. Can anyone confirm that this would work for the remake?

#653 1 year ago
Quoted from cooked71:

When I restored my afm, I used mantis on the SOL and cliffy under the saucer. I think mantis does one for the saucer as well, but for some reason I thought the cliffy was better for this area - probably since you can't really see it, so more surface protection the better.

Just to clarify, I'm talking about the "lock" hole.

LTG to confirm, is that what you meant?

#654 1 year ago

Do you think there's too much pinball on the mind when you pass by a drive-thru speaker and think VERTICAL UP KICK!

IMG_20170913_161554 (resized).jpg

#658 1 year ago

Just curious to know how you guys aligned your flippers. I know the rule of thumb is to put the back (without rubber) against a toothpick in the flipper alignment hole. However, when I do that on this game, it's sort of droopy. Curious to know how you guys did it.

Also, at 6.8 degrees I'm getting a lot of air balls, and the side drains are almost constant.

Any advice?

#668 1 year ago
Quoted from gjm7777:

I have the same experience, Flippers are at -3 and pitch is 7.2.

Same here. Changed things a bit last night and seems to not be happening:

- 6.7 degrees (measured at flipper gap)
- Aligned flipper bat without rubber at alignment hole
- Flipper strength at -2

#670 1 year ago

After making my adjustments, the game is definitely more enjoyable. I just had a quick game and ended up completing all objectives, except I only had Mars to defeat (one more ball and I think I could have done it!).

Not sure if I'll keep the flippers where they are, or maybe line the rubber up on the adjustment hole to raise them a bit.

#678 1 year ago
Quoted from gjm7777:

Yeah I'm using an app, laying the phone flat at the flippers. Weird.

Suggestion... Get a digital level for like $30 on Amazon. You'll never have to question your levelling again. I actually use two digital levels simultaneously, but I have OCD!

#696 1 year ago

Hahahaha... Man, the game just came out like a few weeks ago! Unless you're playing the original and accidentally stumbled onto this thread

Seriously though, congrats! I was on the last ship yesterday and it was pretty damn intense!

#697 1 year ago

And after posting that, I was itching for game, so went and played one quickie.

What a game! 21mil, beat Mars, and only needed Martian Attack to finish (which I missed by one shot earlier).

Sooooooo sooooooo close! Is it like Medieval Madness where after completing all tasks you start Battle for the Kingdom, or do you RTU once you do all objectives?

IMG_20170916_005057 (resized).jpg

#699 1 year ago
Quoted from Arcade:

Pretty sure you can get 21 Million with only one shot.

Hahahaha forgot what game I was playing! Yup, 21B

#704 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

U closed up the outlanes? That definitely makes things easier to accomplish huh?

Right now, if I'm going to enjoy the game, the outlanes need to be set easy. As I improve, I'll move them. The family also plays, so making it difficult doesn't really make for fun times.

#710 1 year ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

Whoa!!!....mine did the same thing, but just fixed it, didn't post...

May also be binding. Check/clean the coil sleeve. My MMR still plays a bit soft on the left, so I'm going to just do a rebuild when I get some time.

#717 1 year ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

I said "FINALLY" as I was sooo close sooo many times it was killing me; I was usually missing only one of the objectives and the game I was missing the 5-way combo just devastated me.
You basically just do RTU after all modes are completed, the only thing you have to do is hit the SOL one time since the RTU insert will be lit. Once you complete RTU mode you get the bonus and RTU recognition. The game resumes with only Destroy Mars completed, I've never seen what happens if you complete it a second time...yet.

Was just busting balls

Trust me I know the feeling. I had so many games in Medieval Madness that had me like one shot away from Battle for the kingdom and then finally the night I did it I was so damn happy.

What was your final score on the game where you did RTU?

#770 1 year ago

Quick question for anyone who changed the flippers from factory droopy to align it with the ball guide... Is it now more difficult to hit the martians on the flanks? I'd assume hitting the ship is easier since you hit it more off the centre than base, but curious to know how it changed the shots to the martians as well as the obits and ramps.

#773 1 year ago

Just wanted to post quickly about my recent experience with LTG and the awesome folks at CGC.

I had an issue with a few plastics and my lockdown bar, and they were shockingly quick at getting this resolved. Just got my replacements in the mail, and couldn't be happier.

I may as well set up direct deposits with CGC. Hell, if they remade Shaq Attaq I'd probably buy it!

LTG thank you again for being a stud!

#813 1 year ago

WTF is with this game! It's like the pf is slanted to the middle so every other shot is headed SDTM! On top of that, anything that touches the top of either sling, has an 80% chance of a side drain regardless of nudging!

Unplugging this thing from the wall! Seriously need a break from it haha. Honestly though, I play my MMR or TOM and you feel like you have a chance!

With AFM it's almost so drainy that you barely feel like you starting anything. Might be an LE on Kijiji soon

#817 1 year ago
Quoted from adii:

I have a tough time saving it from going SDTM. On my MB I can almost always slap-save it but not yet on this one. The side drains on AFMr are crushing me too. I can't stop playing it though. AFMr is so awesome it's ruined my other games.

So I ended up playing one last game before calling it a night, and ended up lighting RTU, and just couldn't hit the SOL to claim it!

I guess that's pinball! Last night though, the game was being a serious ball breaker!

Also, quick question for you guys... I've changed my flippers bit so the rubber on the flipper sit on the toothpick hole, rather than the flipper itself. Now that it's raised a bit, I feel I can hot Martians better on the sides, however orbit shots are tougher. Any thoughts?

And checking bookkeeping, my right drains are nearly double the left. Game is completely level, so wondering if the game is more prone to right drains or is it me?

#819 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

I have the flippers at the factory angle, it seems to play properly all around.
I have the slings set at min for now, it plays like a classic one I have played before.
The sling leaf switches were a little too closely adjusted from the factory and I was getting a lot of machine gunning and random firing. So I opened the gap on all 4 switches a little and it fixed that.
This also makes the game a little more controllable. The slings wont fire unless you hit them.
The ball rolling along the rubber to the flippers for a catch wont trigger them for now at least.
I wish there was a slightly higher sling power adjustment as it seems a tiny bit low on min.
Im leaving my game pitch at 6.9 (average) and the flippers are at +2 on my game.
For now it seems to play properly. I may raise the pitch to 7.1 later as it will side drain a little less at that pitch but I like the way my game plays right now.

Were the flipper bats aligned with the holes as a factory settings, or we're the a little lower? Can't recall.

Also, are you measuring 6.9 from roughly where the bubble level is? I get about 6.7 there, and 6.5 just above the slings.

#821 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

I measure in 3 places on the playfield and just get an average between the 3 measurements.
Often the pitch is higher at the top than at the bottom, but it can also be the opposite. Gameplay seems to not be affected either way.
Im using a digital torpedo level but the cell phone apps can also be very good.

So to get an average of 6.9, your bubble level must be at like 7.5?

Also, how can it possibly be lower at the top, but sometimes lower?

#823 1 year ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

Running 7.1 on mine.....I'm lucky, I guess, as my measurements were within +- 1 degree top and bottom of pf.
Had to open my sling switches too, now very stable.
I'm an old toothpick guy w the gauge and rubber bands to adjust my flippers......machine playing great....

So what does that mean if I'm 6.8 at the bottom and 6.2 in the middle?

Also, what do you use the garage and rubber bands for?

#825 1 year ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

Ha " gauge", not "garage"....

Yeah, stupid auto correct!

What sort of gauge is used to align the flippers?

#828 1 year ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

The gauge is the one included to set height, not alignment...that's what the holes in pf are for. As I recall ( there have been threads on it) W/B was supposed to have the back of the flipper even w the toothpick in hole, w rubbers off, Sterns face the toothpick in the middle. That's how I set mine, anyway....

Ahhhhh, ok that makes sense. Yes, I have the spacer tool and use anytime I adjust my flippers.

But the "back of the flipper", I'm assuming you mean the bat itself (no rubber) rest on the toothpick/drill bit in the hole?

#834 1 year ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

Correct...just checked mine, and it's exactly the way they're aligned. I did it, though, but pretty confident it's right

The factory setting (bat aligned on toothpick) seems droopy, but I'm starting to think it might play better than raising the flippers (rubber on toothpick) like I have it now.

I'm at about 6.8 degrees, but I think I need to raise it up more.

#846 1 year ago

For those who have had issues with air balls, I played with a few settings tonight, and I think I have it playing better. Slant is at 6.7-6.8 and I turned the flippers down to -4 strength. I still make all the shots, and the game plays a bit closer to what I feel the original did.

Also, returned the flippers to factory settings, although I liked that I could trap with the flippers higher, trying to make orbit shots was getting a bit tedious.

Game still kicks my ass hard! But from what everyone is saying, this is not Medieval Madness!

#869 1 year ago

I think I should go buy a lottery ticket... Played one game of MM and got to BFTK (but failed) and then moved over to AFM for one game and finished RTU for the first time!

IMG_20171001_222247 (resized).jpg

#872 1 year ago
Quoted from pintechev:

OMG you're a monster. I got 5 billion once and felt like a king.

Not sure about a monster... I've seen some of the scores guys have put up on the original and it's insane!

I did have a good night where I hit BFTK and finished RTU. But I guarantee you if I played a game now, it would probably be all drains!

#874 1 year ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

I can't imaging getting a score like that (especially now that we have that flipper delay). I would be tickled to get a 4rth of that score.

Nah, you'll be posting one of these days soon with a score that will crush the one I put up

By the way, does anyone know if you can complete RTU again just by completing the objectives again? Unlike MM, all of the ships stay completed, but the other objectives reset. So would you just needs to do Super Jackpot, Martian Multiball, etc., and then do RTU again?

#877 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

I guess Im one of the many that cant feel any delay on the flippers.
My scores are similar to any AFM I have ever played, but again Im not a top tier competitor, just a good player.

I'm not noticing any flipper delay.

1 week later
#916 1 year ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

In dealing with my low ceiling issue, I made a small modification in the the ceilng just above the topper alien’s head
I used a inch and a half hole saw (saved the plug of sheet rock) then beveled the hole with a utilily knife It ends up looking like a shadow of a saucer above the alien all the while allowing him to move without contacting the ceiling. ( now i just hope my wife doesnt notice...)

Now that is dedication!

#925 1 year ago
Quoted from Mrawesome44:

Well at this moment im trying to find a complete guide on youtube on how to replace a flipper. It's been a complete nightmare and im more confused than ever after watching some of these videos. So youtube hasn't really been helping me At this point im gonna have to hire someone. I know with the originals i can find someone to fix it if need be but the mechanics in my area wont touch the remakes.

I'm pretty certain the flipper parts are the same as the original, and rebuilding or repairing them is pretty simple once you muster up the courage to dive in. I bought my MMR (first pinball machine I've ever owned) in February of this year, and the flipper started to bind almost right out of the box. It was a total nightmare for me, and not only did I not have any soldering skill, I didn't know a single thing about pinball machines. I also didn't have any contacts to techs in my area.

Fast forward a few months, I'm still a noob, but I got onto one of the local forums, met a few people, and they helped me with some of the questions I had. I also annoyed the shit out of people on this forum I'm sure haha.

But now, I can solder large stuff (haven't tried board work yet) and when something doesn't feel right on my machine, I don't panic. I'm confident enough now to take a few things apart, and see what is going on. On my TOM recently, I had an issue where the left flipper would trigger the left slingshot kicker. Took the switches out, widened the gap, and presto, problem solved. Seems the vibration from the coil was causing the kicker switch to touch because it was bent to close together.

If you want to PM me, I'm more than happy to try to walk you through any basic stuff that you might be stumped on. If it gets more complicated, you can always post your questions here and someone should be able to help out. LTG is pretty much omniscient if things get really complex

Now about those games... If you want my opinion... Get an MMR! I seriously can't stop playing this game, even though I've beat BFTK 3 times. It never gets old! I play it way more than AFMR! But that's just me.

#930 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

The flippers are the same as used in every Williams fliptronics game.
LTG : )

Look at that... I knew something

#933 1 year ago
Quoted from CosmoJoe:

Exciting night of battling Martians last night! Heart rate went through the roof on that last shot to the scoop.. lol.

Congrats! Pretty awesome feeling! What was your final score?

#952 1 year ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

I set mine to min no issues like that

Have mine at -2 and plays well.

#960 1 year ago
Quoted from rolandthoms:

sorry, where does one adjust the flipper strength??

Hold down the service button to the far left until you hear and sound and see the menu system in the display. Use that same button to progress through each menu page and use the volume up and down button to change options.

2 weeks later
#1107 1 year ago
Quoted from pocketscience:

Are there nylon leg/bolt protectors provided? Guessing not. Just wondering if I should buy some before mine arrives in a few weeks.

None included. Wish I had thought about that too before mine arrived

#1120 1 year ago

Noticed some chipping on the edge of my lock hole very early on, so I got in touch with Cliffy about putting one together since it wasn't available in his AFM set.

After a couple of tests, we've got it fitting! If you're planning to order a set of Cliffy's for your AFM (which you absolutely should!) then I'd highly suggest having him add this piece.

IMG_20171110_135111 (resized).jpg

#1122 1 year ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

how many plays on your game?

Probably about 200, but I noticed it when I was at about 100 games. Just a small chip on the edge, but it started to open up a bit and it only would have gotten worse with time. With the protector on it, I shouldn't have anything to worry about.

#1137 1 year ago
Quoted from PinLen83:

Stories like these are making me even more excited to own one of their machines! This is what customer support is all about. They didn't just guess and throw parts at the situation, like St...I mean, I won't mention names, but they came up with a REAL and very solid solution to the problem.
Kudos to the guys at CGC! Can't wait to pick up my machine from Automated Services!

CGC has been awesome! I have had minor issues with my MMR and AFMR, and Llyod and the team we're always super quick to provide support. I'm already saving up for CGC #3!

#1142 1 year ago
Quoted from Rolls-Royce:

Did you heard something about CGC #3?... I’m definitely “IN” in whatever they decided to release or re-release!

I'm pretty certain everyone here will agree that if they had to put money on it, they'd say #3 will be MB. And dammit, I'm excited!

#1149 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

I believe they posted it will be unveiled at TPF next year.
LTG : )

I'd be hugely surprised if they went CC before MB. Even TAF seems to make more sense before CC based on ratings alone.

1 week later
#1210 1 year ago
Quoted from zoda:

Unbelievable... the topper form #AFMRLE was never sent(!), and seller did not inform me about this advance. Made me harass shipping firms in Sweden and the Netherlands, crying wolf.... Took him 3 days to respond on this matter. Now looking forward to add the topper once it arrives. For those still waiting for LE shipments, make sure you get two packages on the pallet as shown in provided (reused) image.
Questions to fellow AFMR Pinsiders with the various plastics with cracks in paintings, did you report this directly to CGI/PPS? What was the response about that (this thread has far to many posts to find previous answers in...) ?

Got my plastic replacements from CGC, and they were amazingly fast to reply and resolve. I have nothing but praise to give to CGC and of course LTG

I should probably just set up automatic withdrawals with CGC!

#1300 1 year ago
Quoted from GreenMarine:

Hey Fellas. About to place an order for this beautiful game. Heard some talk about Cliffys because of some problem areas with the old machine. Does everyone recommend Cliffys for this remake?

Congrats, and yes, absolutely get Cliffy's. Be sure to ask him for the new lock hole protector too. Tell him Damien sent you

#1310 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

It's from balls draining off the playfield. Mylar across it or if Cliffy makes one use it.
Can happen on originals or remakes.
LTG : )

LTG can you help us understand how present day CC differs from what they were using in the 90s. From my understanding, environmental standards forced manufacturers to use products that were less durable, and thus, some of the issues people report from pretty much all.manufacturers these days regarding chipping. Not saying all games do this, but having a game with less than 100 plays where the edges of some holes are actually peeling off seems to be a bit of a concern.

Would love to hear your thoughts on this.


#1318 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

I have no idea. I wasn't using it back then, and not using it now. ( spraying/applying it )
Maybe some of the restorers can chime in ?
LTG : )

Does anyone have any info on what changes have been made to the clear coating in present day machines versus what was being used in the 90s.

I've seen countless posts where people have complained about brand new games showing signs up chipping almost right out of the box. This is not just AFM. I've recently seen posts on JJP games and others.

I have Cliffy's on my MMR and AFMR now, but I have to order two drain protectors as I was getting chipping on both sides. My AFMR has less than 200 plays.

#1354 1 year ago
Quoted from Arcade:

What Flipper strength are most using?
I remember reading that most are to strong out of the gate.

I'm currently at -8. Had better scores at -4, but also had more airballs. Even at -8 the ball still jumps sometimes when I hit the green targets in front of the ship.

#1367 1 year ago

Just played one quick game to break up my afternoon, and man is this game awesome!!!

#1396 1 year ago
Quoted from pocketscience:

Talk to Cliffy. Get the AFMr kit he has.

And don't forget to ask him to include the lock hole protector. You'll thank me later

#1405 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Sorry to hear about your issues. I have an AFMr on order and look forward to comparing how it plays with my HEP AFM original (» YouTube video).

Very interested in hearing the comparison.

#1406 1 year ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

The original playfields were not clear coated like these so they didnt get the type of wear in those places (chipping)
I used Cliffy protection in the Mother Ship hole and added mylar for the target area and the lock hole. I have been watching the drain hole with no wear as of yet.

Can anyone explain the difference between older clear coats and present? Curious to know how and why the method of doing things 20+ years ago seems better.

#1423 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

I've been a skeptic of remakes (in general), however I've heard great things about MMr playability so I decide to give AFMr a whirl. Looks beautiful...just hope it plays beautiful. I'm also hopeful if it doesn't play wonderful out-of-the-box, it can be tweaked to play great.

I love the way mine plays now. Took some time to dial in, and side drains can be brutal, but the game is a blast!

I have no comparison though, as I've never played an original.

#1437 1 year ago

Is it just me, or do the flippers on AFMR feel souch tighter and stronger than MMR?

The flippers on MMR feel looser or something. Like there is maybe a little more play.

Anyone else feel this way?

#1450 1 year ago
Quoted from chrisnack:

I own both remakes. AFMr is definitely stronger, i have my down to -6 now and it's much better and smoother playing. Never adjusted off of default on MMr.

Maybe this as an example explains it better. Let's say that I do a super skill shot, when the ball loops the orbit and gets to the left flipper, there is a big difference in the contact with the ball.

On AFMR once I hit it, it's going powerfully up one of the right ramps or hitting something with a load of power.

With MMR, it's likely making it's way halfway up the damsel ramp, or sort of lobbing up near the castle and coming back down.

I very rarely make that skill shot to the damsel ramp or even right joust orbit on initial contact from the skill shot launch, but on AFMR it's almost guaranteed.

#1454 1 year ago

Just snuck in a quick game, and forgot to turn the lights on a bit. Ended up playing Strobe Multiball in the dark, and man is that trippy!

Such a great game!

#1476 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

What's an average score on this game? Really good? Great?

I have my game set to default everything. My average score is about 5-7B, and my highest score is 38B after getting to RTU. Since then, nowhere close to that.

I think a good score is around 10B+, and that means you're probably getting close to RTU.

#1487 1 year ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

I'm curious about what some of the successful strategies are for getting RTU? For me, the only issue I have is getting through all the attack waves. Shooting up the middle leads to and out of control ball and far too many drains to get close. I have been able to get everything else except conquer Mars on a few games now. How the heck are you guys not draining out when shooting the shields/saucer?

I use super skill shot to lower shield, then multiballs to bash saucer. Getting comfortable with that lock shot is pretty vital.

3 weeks later
#2142 1 year ago
Quoted from abagwell:

Well I noticed my outlanes had slid up as well, moved them all the way down after wanting to throw the thing outside from all the constant outlane drains. I adjusted my left flipper again as it still seemed a bit off, and it actually seems like the head of the flipper is a bit higher then the right flipper...will take a pic later to show what I'm talking about. At any rate, very first game with the outlanes moved down:

Congrats on the RTU!

What do you have your flipper strength set to?

I seemed to be getting really decent scores at default setting, but then reduced the strength to prevent air balls and have noticed a dip in my scores.

Also find it very hard to get the 5-way combos.

Anyone else notice this difference when lowering flipper strength?

#2153 1 year ago
Quoted from abagwell:

I have mine at -18, wasn't having any issues making shots, though I always feel like the 5way is such a crap shoot, especially if you are trying to alternate ramps. I try and mix in a lock when I'm going for it to give myself a break or wait until my orbits are open. Also I was looking at the original AFMs high scores on here and people were saying that they "3x RTU'd", but after I finished RTU the game didn't reset. It just stayed with every city lit solid, Mars was flashing, and the saucer drop bank stayed down with the back target up. Every hit on that target for the rest of my game gave me 100M. I had several balls left after I RTU'd and this never are you supposed to 3x RTU or was that something they changed in this remake somehow?

-18 wow! What slant do you have your game at? I'm at 6.8 when I measure it digitally near the bottom of the slings (basically in line with the bubble).

Even at -10 I was finding the shots a bit weak. And just read that someone here is at -22 and still getting air balls. Seems like a lack of consistency in the power from game to game.

Hopefully if CGC updates the code at all, they will dial the default flipper setting to something that mimics the original better. That way when we dial up and down it's more a preference than trying to find a normal setting.

Aside from that, the game is a gem. Been playing it more than my MMR and DI which is saying a lot!

#2156 1 year ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

I've been streaming AFMR all week, what a fantastic game!
I got direct video going from the machine to my streaming rig... Here are a couple of videos, one where I do a walk through of the machine and the second that shows the direct video.
» YouTube video
» YouTube video
still haven't managed to get a high score yet!!!

The game is a ball buster! Took me a while to knock off the factory GC.

I actually moved down the outlane posts to enjoy it a bit more and make it family friendly. Might move them back up to factory setting soon since most people who come over end up playing MMR or TOM.

#2167 1 year ago
Quoted from Rolls-Royce:

It looks amazing! Coincidentally I was thinking about doing that upgrade as well, obviously same color as yours!
Thanks for posting!

Do the Titans change the feel of the game. Pretty sure I put a pair on my MMR, and immediately took them off because it sort of slowed things down.

Your thoughts?

#2213 1 year ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

While you might try setting down the power on your flippers, the fact remains that these settings are currently having little to no change on the flippers.

Not so sure about that. My airballs are pretty must resolved by turning flippers down to -5 or more. I was playing at -10 the last month or so, and I barely get 5 billion on a good game, and find it hard to get a 5-way combo.

Turned it back to default tonight after reading your post, and on my second game I got RTU with a new GC of 41B!

Pretty clear to me that dialing up the flipper strength made it easier to hit shots consistently. So not sure what CGC is saying here.

#2214 1 year ago
Quoted from abagwell:

I have mine at -18, wasn't having any issues making shots, though I always feel like the 5way is such a crap shoot, especially if you are trying to alternate ramps. I try and mix in a lock when I'm going for it to give myself a break or wait until my orbits are open. Also I was looking at the original AFMs high scores on here and people were saying that they "3x RTU'd", but after I finished RTU the game didn't reset. It just stayed with every city lit solid, Mars was flashing, and the saucer drop bank stayed down with the back target up. Every hit on that target for the rest of my game gave me 100M. I had several balls left after I RTU'd and this never are you supposed to 3x RTU or was that something they changed in this remake somehow?

When I completed RTU tonight, it awarded me 5 billion. The countries stayed lit, but the green objectives reset. I completed everything again except Martian Multiball, but I assume that after that it would've just been a matter of hitting the RTU scoop???

Can anyone shed some light. I finished RTU on ball 2, and had my third ball and two extra balls left. Blew two balls just trying to hit the RTU scoop!

Too bad, as they would have come in handy for getting to that second RTU!

#2391 1 year ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

Which flipper rubbers are the best ones for me to get, and also, should I get better balls than the ones that came with it?

Everyone will give you a different answer. I personally like the feel of standard black rubber. I like the look of Titans, but find they feel slightly different, and not sure I like that. I put them on my MMR, and took them off after a few games.

#2395 1 year ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

Cool, thanks.
Another question: Those LEDs are soldered directly onto the PCB right? LEDs often fail in 'batches' so even if there are 3 LEDs running at 20%, if 1 goes, there is a chance all 3 will, and others on the game. I'm super-curious to find out exactly what the strategy is in replacing LEDs on remakes. I see PICs and other uCs being shipped to the customers, but will a full PCB need to be shipped if LEDs go out? Again, having 2 LEDs boost their power to make up for 1 failed LED in the group of 3 will not help, as often LEDs burn out due to manufacturing issues and not a 'faulty' single LED. The most important issue though is in the long run, the LEDs will expire at the same rate, so again, having 2 make up for 1 going out won't help, all LEDs will need to be replaced... This to me is a design issue that has not been cleared up, maybe because it IS an major issue and there is no good answer? Scott over at TNA made all his LEDs modular and replaceable. I've asked CGC with no answer.

Yup, this is one of the reasons why I considered getting an original MM.

It will likely be the one game that I will keep forever and for that reason I thought having something that is time-tested and serviceable would be a better option.

Who knows. Maybe I'll sell my LE and chip in a little extra money and get an HEP original.

#2460 1 year ago

Only issue I had was the the high voltage button was not making contact with the bracket. Fixed it in 10 seconds.

However, and I am not sure where we would classify this issue. But I do have clear peeling around the lock hole and the drain.

Pretty upsetting to have a new game start chipping after less than 100 games!

#2463 1 year ago
Quoted from pintechev:

Get some Mylar and lay it down over the spots to stop the chipping.


Even got two drain protectors to cover both sides.

1 week later
#2588 1 year ago

Is everyone going to need a PIC 2.0? Or will the eventual software update sort out the issues?

#2590 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

Yes. Contact who you bought the game from to get it.

I don't believe there is one coming. And wouldn't fix this.
LTG : )

So just need the PIC 2.0, and that will sort out flipper and topper issues?

#2594 1 year ago
Quoted from ecmurrayf1:

Yes, I put mine in last night and it fixed my issues. It was much easier pulling the board to replace the pic as some have suggested.

Is the board in the backbox?

#2604 1 year ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

If someone wants a 4 pin collection, does it make sense to get AFMr, MMr and Monsterbash, since those are all very similar in playfied ( fan ) Would it make sense to get more of a variety for the 4?

I have 4 pins as well. MMR, AFMR, TOM, and DI. I find DI to be a good fit, because it is so different from the others. I like 90's B/W games the most, but having some with so much variety like DI makes for a nice change when you're in the mood for something else. I think something like LOTR would also be great alongside 3 classic B/W games.

#2624 1 year ago

Are we able to order the PIC 2.0 directly from CGC rather than waiting for our dealers to get them? My dealer didn't even know they were supposed to be getting them.

#2640 1 year ago
Quoted from Miknan:

Noticed decal starting to peel. Should I put some sort of glue or something over it so it doesn't get worse?

I noticed a slight bit of peeling in the top corner of my MMR, but nothing at all like that. I'd get in touch with CGC about that.

#2808 1 year ago

Anyone getting clearcoat chipping around their SOL even with the CGC protector?

#2812 1 year ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

Pictures please.

You can see a big chip to the right side of the SOL.

The hole behind the spaceship where the balls drop into is even worse.

WTF is up with the clearcoats!?!?

IMG_20180123_114742 (resized).jpg

#2813 1 year ago

IMG_20180123_115254 (resized).jpg

#2832 1 year ago

Was speaking to Ron Kruzman about these clearcoat issues, and he was telling me that when he does a pf, he puts in 8 coats, but there are setting periods in between a lot of these coats. Some even a few weeks before putting on additional coats. And when he's done with the 8, he'll occasionally do a couple more to ensure it is perfect.

And then there's my AFMR that was chipping after 50 games!

#2839 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Ron does gorgeous work, but it has little to do with the chipping issues. I don't think it's fair to expect the CGC's CC process to compete with Ron, however chipping after 50 games is really unfortunate.
It's possible to have a cost effective CC that doesn't chip! CGC and JJP seem to have more CC chipping issues than Stern. I've owned many Stern pins and haven't had chipping issues. Not saying there aren't examples of Stern PF's chipping, but my experience has been good.
Ron's process can cost $700-$1000, and that's quite reasonable given the time and attention to detail. If this level of detail is what you seek, I'm sure you can find a restored original for not much more than AFMr costs. Here is a fairly recent FS post:

That's a gorgeous machine! MM is my personal favorites, so I'm on the lookout for a restored original.

For my MMR, I may buy another pf and have Ron do his magic on it so I can swap one day in the future when the current one is all beat up.

Let me know if you hear of any nice MMs

#2842 1 year ago
Quoted from pintechev:

A factory clear does != Ron’s clear; it’s just not a thing to expect from ANY factory made playfield.
AFM has two places where wear occurs, the scoop and the saucer. Whether or not this is happening faster on the remake is tangential to the fact that nearly ALL original machines have significant wear in those two spots. If you want those parts of your game to show no wear, install a Cliffy. Otherwise, play the snot out of your game, rule the universe and have a blast doing it. Playfields are available and should you chose to go that route, have Ron clear your replacement PF and swap it in. Node based games have less wiring, are more modular and are quite a bit easier to swap should you need to go that route.

My lock hole was actually the first edge to chip, followed by drain, saucer hole, and lastly, the SOL.

I'm waiting on my SOL Cliffy, as I ordered the rest thinking the CGC protector would cover me. I've shut the game down until I get them installed.

Might as well wait on that PIC 2.0 too.

#2843 1 year ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

There have been several on here as of late. The ones I have seen fitting your criteria have been going for around $8500 but they are gone in sixty seconds.
There have been others but they are players condition (scratched some wear) they are a bit cheaper but require work to get them in the condition your looking for. There is one of those on DCL now. You would end up putting more money into one those than necessary then just waiting for a nice one. The MM your talking about is going to go up in value soon due to the renewed interest as of late.

I haven't seen any well restored MMs for $8500. I've seen one for $10,500 but with a Mirco pf which I'm not interested in.

If anyone hears of any nicely restored MMs, please let me know.

#2847 1 year ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

pinlawyer in AZ sold his and it was gone quick. richyrich picked up one in CA for $8500 also having it sent AU. They do show up but not for long....

I'll have to keep my ear to the ground.

Quoted from bigd1979:

Sold mine few months ago for 9250... beautiful restored playfield and cab with tons of expensive mods including new lighted apron. Color dmd. Plexy lighted backboard. Upgraded sound. Lighted troll and dragon. Lighted pop up trolls and eyes. Lighted moat. All cliffys and mantis and many other smaller things.

Did your have an original pf or Mirco?

#2852 1 year ago
Quoted from pintechev:

That very well may be true for Stern, but in the case of AFM, CGC made (some/most/all) the originals and all of the new ones. Materials may have changed, process may have changed. It’s still pinball and it’s still gloriously fun.

But how much more glorious would it be if the clear coat was actually done better? I own both remakes and I absolutely love playing both of them. But there is something disheartening about knowing how quickly the chipping is happening. It almost makes me feel that these will not stand the test of time.

For me it creates a sense of doubt that may hold me back from buying the next remake. Maybe I will look for a restored original that I know will hold up for years to come.

#2859 1 year ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

And your the style of customer that is going to be the one that continues to buy these games. These remakes are just not for the die hard meticulous collectors. The AFMrLE is close because of all of the added features that are limited. But when I look at my playfield and see all the vertical lines in it, It just isn't collector quality to me. And I don't think it was intended to be. There is a very large market for this type game. It will be interesting to see if it continues to grow or stagnate and retract.

It is interesting. I'm fairly new to the hobby and jumped in strictly as a player, but my fascination with the hobby has me in a collector's state of mind.

I have a goal to get a few of my favorite original games in restored condition one day, hopefully starting with MM.

I'm not knocking the remakes. I think it's an incredible opportunity for people new to the hobby, or those who missed out, to own one of these classic games. I play my MMR almost daily, and will probably never let it go, even if I get my hands on an original!

But the chipping that I see on both of my games, very early into playing them, is beyond disappointing. I have a friend with 3000+ games on his Ghostbusters, and nothing even close to this kind of visible wear and tear. Needless to say, I've also seen loads of B/W with more years and mileage that do not have this.

After buying my MMR, and even after having to put Cliffys over every exposed edge of the game, I still jumped at AFMR because I enjoyed my game so much. I was also blown away by the awesome customers service from CGC.

To me the chipping is like going out on a date with a girl that is drop dead gorgeous, dressed to kill, and yet, she did not brush her teeth.

So yea... Chipping is like bad breath on a perfect date.

#2878 1 year ago

Got an email from Adam at P1, and the PIC 2.0 have arrived.

#2945 1 year ago

Just got word from my dealer that the PIC 2.0 is headed my way. So far very impressed with the way this has been handled.

#2992 1 year ago

When we install PIC 2.0, does this affect high score settings?

#2995 1 year ago
Quoted from pintechev:

As you turn the flippers down to -4, and you have less air balls, scores will probably go up

Hahaha. I like the sound of that!

#3001 1 year ago

Thanks to Adam at P1 for getting this out to me pronto.

MVIMG_20180131_223604 (resized).jpg

#3101 1 year ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

Thank you yours is flawless. Will contact them early next week. Probably call my dealer first. That has been my only concern with the AFMr remakes and looks like not all have the issue. Swapping playfeilds though is not fun. What have others done on the chipping issues that were posted previously? Did they send you a populated playfeild or just get a new one and make you sign a non disclosure agreement to stop talking about it. Seems like crickets lately from many on the chipping issues. Don’t want to swap and new one do the exact same thing though. I have been waiting for full Jury verdict on remakes and still have original too. One will go eventually.

I have chipping on every edge. SOL, spaceship hole, drain, and lock hole. It happened much faster than chipping on MMR, and I've actually had to shut the game down until I get Cliffys.

The problem I see is that a sizeable number of owners (as you'll find right here in this thread) just accept it and criticize anyone that thinks this problem is unacceptable.

If everyone banded together and demanded a resolution, we'd possibly get something from CGC, and likely they'd rethink things before releasing game #3.

I love my AFMR, and have had a good experience with CGC support, but the chipping on my game, and the countless pics I've seen on the site have left me wondering if I'd rather own original games over remakes.

I had a lot of problems with Dialed In, and Jack from JJP moved mountains to get things right for me.

#3119 1 year ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

I am learning the same. If you chat on a problem or concern people send you unkind comments. They think it is like saying their kid is ugly which is silly. This is discussing an issue. Hiding and ignoring won’t solve or identify anything. Silencing people has never ever worked over time in the history of the world.

I think what baffles me is that even Stern decided to replace pfs on Ghostbusters due to ghosting, but on a playfield where ever edge is chipping away, so of us just turn a blind eye.

It makes absolutely no sense to me. I love every detail on my remakes except the chipping. If CGC got this under control, it would practically be a perfect machine.

But having people that condone poor quality control makes it tougher to force improvements or action.

#3122 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

I do not like chipping either however the market has forced playfield manufacturers to use extra coats of clear on their playfields. This makes chipping a lot worse on newer machines than older ones. My solution is Cliffys in all the areas of concern before you plunge a ball. No issues then. You cannot blame the manufacturer for chipping.

How is the manufacturer not responsible?

#3130 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

How is the manufacturer responsible? If you drive your car on a dirt road and chip your new paint is that the fault of the car maker? Chipping is not new and is here to stay. Plenty of different protection around, everything from Cliffys to PU shooter lane protectors. I cannot stand chipping either so we fit Cliffys. Chipping is one thing you can control.

Major difference here. If every model they made eventually had paint peeling off, people would be up in arms!

I spoke with Ron Kruzman who knows a thing or two about clear coating, and he was telling me that the process they're using now isn't going to stand the test of time, and we're seeing that with the chipping.

He actually has had people send the remake pfs to him to re-clear as CGC is not putting out a lasting product here.

His process uses 7-10 layers of clear I believe, and they all have curing times which are often weeks.

So go ahead and put Cliffys on every exposed edge of your game, but you're just feeding the problem, not helping it.

#3138 1 year ago
Quoted from pintechev:

I am sorry; you can not compare them. They aren’t comparable.

No one is comparing. I'm simply pointing out the differences. Clearly Ron's process would create challenges and extra expenses in production, but it shows how much work goes into a long lasting clear coat.

I run a business where we custom create things for our customers. A long time ago, we decided to use a more expensive process and materials, and we've had few issues and many loyal and happy customers.

It's not impossible to do. They did it in the same factory 20 years ago!

Quoted from neverahighscore:

Putting cliffys on isn't feeding the problem. If you didn't put cliffys on a original afm playfield, guess what happens.

I'm not the first to make this point, so I'll repeat what many have said... All games will show signs of wear, however, if you look at an original 90s B/W games, you generally will not see this type of chipping. You will see clear wearing down, and wood being exposed at the high impact areas, but as a general rule, it take a longer time.

I have a TOM from 1995, and the drain hole looks better than my AFMR that was chipping away almost right out of the box. My TOM was routed, and has a lot of mileage on it, but it's holding up. And there are no Cliffys on it!

I agree with you though, putting Cliffys on your games is a brilliant way to guard against damage, and preserve your game, but not all customers will be aware of this, and putting out a game that is notoriously chipping after less than 100 plays is not acceptable.

And as final note... I'm not just bored and looking for an excuse to complain about something. I have both remakes, and I'm chomping at the bit for the third. But as customer, I believe it is our responsibility to hold manufacturers responsible to a certain level of quality. This pf issue needs to be addressed, and will only happen when the community comes together.

Have a great day

#3146 1 year ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

If anyone posts pictures or issues with a playfield, maybe include the palyfield number so we can determine if the issues originate from a bad series of playfields.

I have the exact same chipping on my MMR and AFMR. Add that to the list of people that have complained about chipping, and I don't think there is necessarily an order to this.

#3307 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

JJP is now including actual Cliffies from the factory on Dialed In. Just verified that the changeover happened around Jan 30th. It took a while, but it's another industry-leading decision by Jack.

Doug has said that putting cliffys on games might upset purests who want the game to be as close to the original as possible. He also said that offering them as an optional upgrade could be a production nightmare.

Hopefully they Lok at what JJP is now doing and step things up. Considering their pfs are notorious for chipping, putting in protectors would prevent edge chipping, and save us a lot of time having to do it.

The castle lock hole protector on MMR was a huge pain in the ass to install!

#3308 1 year ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

Not to mention the inconsistency. You would think that this process would be a no brainer by now. It's almost like their playin around with the chemistry still.

EPA + cost cutting.

#3317 1 year ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

yes, and having the playfield protector allows me to enjoy the game more, since I can 'play the heck out of it, and just have fun!' without worrying about damaging the clearcoat. I was really hammering on it yesterday when I was able to shoot around the left orbit not twice, but three times and pulled my knee out a bit in the process... I'm a newb too so I don't know what it's like without the pp so if one day I remove it, it will be a bonus if there is a huge improvement.

The other (but much more expensive) option is to buy a second playfield, and have that on standby for the day when your current look beat up. I'm considering doing that for my MMR, as it will likely be a game I never let go of. I might even send the backup pf to Ron Kruzman to get a proper clear job, and then one day dar down the road, when I want a new playing MMR, I have the pf ready to go.

And with the one I remove, I can always have that one restored so my son can one day own a "new" game.

#3329 1 year ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

Man, what a shame to have to do this with a brand new game! I know there are some guys that have extra play fields for each and every one of their games. But those are originals.

Nature of the beast I suppose. The shooter lane in my 1 year old MMR was starting to look like my 22 year old TOM!

The true shame is that a lot of people (many right here in this thread) just accept it.

#3335 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

This is shocking and unacceptable in a home-use environment. If it's true, I guess I'm a little more sympathetic about PF protectors

Never used a protector, and personally have no desire to, but then again, this chipping thing is just ridiculous.

Quoted from NeilMcRae:

how many plays?

The clear coat in the shooter started chipping after about 500 plays, and then started turning black in a small spot at around 1000 plays. I clean and wax regularly. Wen I noticed the black wear mark, I immediately put a Cliffy on (should have done it day one). However, I have seen many original B/W games with thousands of plays on them that still look great. It's hard to compare because there has not been enough time to really test MMR. But I can imagine that without protectors, 20 years from now, this game would not look good.

Quoted from whthrs166:

Well they had better get it together if they are going to sell enough of these remakes! They can start by taking care of their loyal customers so that they are return customers. I think there are more people watching here than we or they may realize.

I have spoken to Doug on the phone, and CGC support over email many times. They are very nice, and always seems very willing to help. But for reasons I probably don't fully understand, they do not seem to want to acknowledge or address this chipping issue. I think they're just justifying it by saying that EPA standards have changed and so on, but this definitely doesn't give me a lot of confidence that this machine will stand the test of time. So far, we've seen that the edges of these games chip almost by just looking at them. What will happen 10 years from now? Will they start planking and cracking in other areas? I know the clear gets thinner as it goes off to the edges, but I'm still a bit worried about this.

Truth be told, I really want to be a loyal remake customer. After getting MMR, I said I would buy anything you put out. That was until I got AFMR and the chipping hadn't immediately. I just took a look tonight, and I now have chipping on both sides of the SOL. Basically every exposed edge of this game is now chipped. It's pretty disappointing.

#3500 1 year ago

For everyone who has formed the opinion that clear chipping is acceptable or par for the course in today's pinball world, we'll see how quickly your tune changes if chipping ever starts to form at the switch slots.

I just played a MMR that had some chipping starting at the switch behind the castle. If that opens up, that is going to be bad news!

We're only two years into these remakes...

#3542 1 year ago
Quoted from jmagla:

New to owning a pinball, so each small step is a learning curve. I've had and sorted the left popper, pic, and ramp issues, so far so good. I've bought a full set of Cliffys, installed the two easy ones, moving target and ball eject, got four left to do. There are instructions on the website for the mothership and sol, so will do these, even if a bit daunted.
I can't see any info however on the lock and drain hole cliffy's, just wondered if anyone who has fitted these has any photos or advice?

I was actually the first one to use the lock Cliffy, as my game started chipping there first, and I contacted Cliff and helped him with sizing. He's amazing!

The easiest way is to get your hand in there, put the top in first, and then push on it until the bottom goes over the edge. It's probably better to wait until you're doing the spaceship Cliffy, as you have less in the way.

The drain will require taking the apron off, as we as loosening the ball trough so you can wedge it in. It's pretty straight forward once you look at it.

#3555 1 year ago
Quoted from BentleyBear:

Anyone have a pic of the drain cliffy installed ?

I actually ended up getting two drain Cliffys. The purpose of this protector was to stop wear as the ball continuously rolled over the edge into the drain. But with the chipping issue, the bottom of my drain was starting to look terrible. Had to put one there too.

As a comparison, my original (at one point in its life routed) TOM has never had a protector, and the drain hole looks better!

#3568 1 year ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

how many plays do you have? I've played the game pretty hard and I'm just not having that chipping problem. (Nor on my MMR thats over two years old now).

Chipping on my AFMR lock hole after less than 100 plays. Chipping on SOL, hole under UFO, and drain after less than 300 plays.

MMR seemed a bit more resilient. I'm at about 2300 plays now, and have chipping on every exposed edge of the game. All covered by Cliffys now, but the fact of the mater is, they're chipped.

I'm willing to put it to rest on my MMR, because I'm hoping the Cliffys will prevent any further damage. However, seeing an MMR the other day with a chip forming on a switch slot made shit scarier. If the chipping starts to happen on any part of the pf that is not an outer edge, we have a real problem.

With AFMR, I can't swallow the pill as easily consider how little play I've put on it.

I'm curious to know if your game has protectors on it. Also, what strength do you have your flippers at, and what angle is the game set on?

#3571 1 year ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

My MMR I put protectors on after having it about a year, (well I had the protectors but was just too lazy to install them LOL) I reckon I must have been at about 1000 plays and I don't recall any chipping, not to say it isn't there it just didn't stand out for me, currently my MMR is tombstoned whilst I build a new pinball arcade room). Tonight I'll put the macro lens on my big camera and take some close ups of the AFMR playfield, not sure how many plays on AFMR but as its the only game I can play at the moment its getting a lot of play
If I was getting major chipping with low I would be upset also. (especially after having ghosting on ghostbusters!). I am getting dimples but having looked at this problem in depth after my batman had them I'm comfortable that this is normal if a bit ugly.

In all honesty, I didn't look for or notice chipping on my MMR for a while, as I was just enjoying it way too much! But after reading a few things on the forum about chipping on these games, I decided to take a look, and was shocked to find out my game was taking such a pounding. Ordered Cliffys pretty much immediately.

With AFMR, I figured I could play a few games as I waited for the Cliffys to arrive in the mail. Sadly, the game started chipping a lot faster than MMR, or perhaps I was just hyper aware this time around.

Either way, it really sucks. I've reached out to CGC to see what we can do about it. In the interim, I'm enjoying my MMR, and will likely buy another playfield from Planetary, so one day when it gets beat up, I'll just swap them.

But for AFMR, the fact it chipped almost right out of the box, makes it much harder to accept.

#3598 1 year ago

My game is out of service due to worries of further chipping. I need to find time to get all the Cliffys installed.

We should not be having to do this on a game with less than 400 plays.

I was looking at a LOTR pf last night with years of play on it, no protectors at all, and the game was nearly pristine.

CGC needs to do something about this.

#3710 12 months ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

I think you are spot on!!! But other restore guys say it is the process. They sand off clear and re clear correctly and it lasts. Kruzman does it perfectly.

As does HEP, HSA, etc...

I'm probably sending my TOM pf out to HSA. They do fantastic work, and it will not CHIP!

#3752 12 months ago
Quoted from pintechev:

That’s exactly how I feel. I love everything about pinball.
Happy Flipping!

Really, man? Everytime someone posts a comment about an issue they're having, you just write something unrealistically positive to discredit them? Maybe you're on the CGC payroll (I personally am convinced you are), or maybe you're just such a fanboy that you'll take a bullet for them.

Either way, it's not your place to tell anyone that they should just be happy with what they have, when they've just spent $8000 on a game.

Maybe your game is great. But don't assume that is everyone's experience and opinion.

And it's utterly insulting to say that any of us with an issue are sabotaging the success of pinball. I've bought 4 new games in one year, had countless argumeiwith my wife about it, and I have introduced numerous friends to the hobby that have resulted in more sales. If anything, I love this hobby as much if not more, because I know that when a company does right by it's customers, it's succeeds!

Maybe mention that to the guys at the CGC cooler tomorrow morning!

#3770 12 months ago
Quoted from pintechev:

We are strangers, and hopefully friends with a common hobby

It's a fantastic hobby, albeit an expensive-ass one! I'd much rather us be chatting about how awesome it is to reach RTU, and how close we might have come to completing it a second time.

Let me clarify things, since my recent posts in this thread probably just sound like complaints. I also own an MMR LE, and I've had so much fun with it, I could drone on and on. I've owned it for about a year, and it was the first machine I ever owned. Had some minor issues with the flippers out of the box, but LTG provided incredible support and I learned a lot about my machine quickly.

Even my wife, who would put pinball so low on her list of interests, enjoys this game and actually completed Royal Madness for the first time the other day, and it was pretty awesome to hear her talk about it.

I had so much fun with it, that when I saw the shooter lane starting to get chewed up, I just emailed Cliffy and got the set ordered. As I was installing it, I noticed every single edge of the game was chipped. Abd I said nothing! I put the protectors on, and went back to battling for the kingdom. And I enjoyed it so much, that I ordered an AFM LE!

But when the game started chipping after less than 100 plays, I was shocked. When I realized there were a bunch of people that had this problem (and inevitably all of us that don't put on Cliffys), I felt like something should be said.

The worst part of this, far worse than the chipping itself, is how poorly CGC has handled this. Look at the content in most messages now posted in this thread. It's predominantly related to unhappy customers that have received unsatisfactory service.

I'm hoping that CGC steps up and tries to resolve these issues. I wanted to buy every one of their remakes. But what I've been reading lately is troubling, and will be the reason I don't spend more money with them should they not make an attempt to sort these people out.

#3794 12 months ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

You are extremely vocal about CGC and how they have treated you. I cannot see many "unhappy customers" on this thread, just you and one other that are constantly doing your best to derail CGC and this thread. You are doing your best to use this forum to get what you want from CGC. This is not in the good spirit of Pinside.

You'd make a great dictator

Recently, there have been a lot of disgruntled customers on this thread, and as a result, many potential customers that have cold feet. Not just two of us

If you receive a product that is defective, it's in your best interest to contact the manufacturer. That goes for any product, especially one that costs as much as a small car.

Feel free to check out my other Pinside posts. For the most part, I'm posting excitedly about my games.

You'll also see that I had a plethora of issues with my Dialed In, but was quickly sorted out by Jack and his team. They actually did way more than they had to. I'm not only happy with my game and experience, I'll also be buying their next standard body (Toy Story).

I'm giving CGC the benefit of the doubt. I'm awaiting a reply from them to see what they plan to do about these issues. I want them to do right. I want them to succeed. I want to be a happy customer and buy all of their remakes.

#3819 12 months ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

So here is the full version that was requested as it was a busy holiday weekend.
I put in my ticket on the CGC online system. I received an email and call promptly the next day, I returned the call the following day. The call was from “Doug” as he is referred to on this thread. He started the call off asking about where I live etc. His children live here and he went to College around here etc. Asked about my business’s etc. We then began the topic on the AFMr and the issues regarding the playfield. He said they would immediately send out the plastics and they use the same manufacture many others are using and not sure why they are having the issues. He said that the playfield manufacturing is mostly by hand. Only the routing is automated. It was stated they purchase their wood from a “secret source.” It is cedar and ash. I asked which the ball surface was. He stated that cedar was the playfield surface but said he may have that backwards. Since it is a handmade product no two are alike. I mentioned the color issues and was told that this was “artistic character” and was to be expected on a handmade product. They view this as completely acceptable. He said in their view they build the world’s finest pinball machines. They use a 13 layer screen process where Stern only uses a 5 layer process. Other playfield manufactures use a more automated process which they believe is inferior. I mention the wrong screen colors and again was told that is up to the “artist.” He said the inserts are also hand installed and also will be “unique” between play fields. I asked about the planking and he said it is not planking but was in the surface prior to screening from not being “a fully prepared surface” and that it would not get any worse. This is expected when you are dealing with a handmade natural product. I stated that it is getting worse. He disagreed. I also stated that I own many pinball machines and many of the recent pinball playfields were made in his shop and they aren’t doing this or look like that. I also stated my MMr LE does not look like this. I also stated I can’t find a AFMr in Colorado that is not doing this. Even the one at the local dealer looks like this. He stated that they have only received a few complaints and these artistic characteristics are to be expected and acceptable. He also stated that the Warranty is at CGC’s sole discretion and is only 12 months on the LE playfield which he was willing to extend to 5 years. (Medieval Madness 12 month’s electronic/6 months other, AFM CE, 6/3, AFM SE 12/6 and the AFM LE 24/12) He did agree to send me the diffusers that I could never get from my dealer on my MMR and that I could not get CGC to send directly to me in the past. At this point he went into pinside and the things people are posting on there. He said he has a few employees and friends on there. He said all these things are completely normal and people need to stop posting. At that point I told him I was a poster and had posted things on there. He said people need to understand we make the best pinball machines and this is not like manufactures issues. He said that I need to stop posting. I changed the subject and asked if they were going to send me an email in writing on what we chatted about. He said it will be in the ticket. At this point he brought up the posting again and began pressing that they do not want people posting issues. I finally had enough and politly said thank you for his time and I am looking forward to the parts.
After I hung up I felt like I was just bullied and smoothed talk to believe and accept what they are telling me. I immediately notified my dealer that I was uncomfortable with the solution.
Fact #1 The warranty is 100% discretionary by CGC and the customer has no recourse.
Fact#2 The CGC system is great for small items but large items are phone calls with no documentation. One can’t record a phone conversation with a person in Illinois or PPS in Nevada as you need all parties to consent to the recording. Many have recorded them but can’t publicly display them.
Fact#3 The product comes in a box. One can’t inspect a game until it is opened at that point one owns it and it is under the full discretion of CGC if they deem it is “defects in material or workmanship”
Fact#4 When I bought this game the sales sheet did not disclose that this was a handmade product and it would be different than pictured. It did not disclose that playfield chipping may occur, grainy lines and planking are acceptable, putty maybe in the shooter lane and colors will not match. When I buy a “remake” I assume it is going to look like the original that it was re manufactured from. This includes the correct playfield surface and colors. Chipping is not acceptable in my other games and should not be accepted here. If the above disclosure was made most of us would not purchase the product.
Fact#5 The sales sheet did not disclose that only the original purchaser is covered by the warranty and that "CGC, at its sole discretion, will be liable to repair or replace components which are returned to CGC during the warranty period. CGC will repair or replace any covered part at no charge, exclusive of shipping and handling charges or any labor to install the part. Unless instructed otherwise, all defective parts be properly packaged and returned to CGC freight prepaid…No one is authorized to make modifications to this limited warranty."
CGC or “Doug” will not fix these items immediately once someone opens a ticket as many believe. They do this only on small items. CGC is illustrating to consumers chipping, wrong colors, insert ghosting, planking, poorly prepped surfaces, and putty are all acceptable. They can increase the warranty 20 years if none of these issues are covered. Everyday for the next 4 ½ years I get to look at playfeild that looks like crap is the bottom line. If CGC is not going to Warranty their products on major issues then I will warn suspecting new buyers. We all are doing that. I wish mine looked like some of yours. I have had a few friends just sell their games and take the loss. It is the luck of the draw and you will never know what yours looks like until you open it. If new major issues emerge lots of luck.
I currently own 27 pinball machines which I believe are the top games and ones I enjoy. I also bought and sold around 75 games to find the games I like and ones that are in better shape with great mods. I am not a new person to pinball. I have bought games from every major manufacture and have never seen such a disregard for the customer. Don’t tell me you are the best but show me. No one would be posting on here if that was the case. I bought both the MMr LE and the AFMr LE from CGC with matching numbers. Few can claim that. I have talked to many other customers/friends that wont post on here that have moved on. I will receive hate emails and pm. Some of these are friends of the manufacture and others I assume are employees. If I too take the loss and move on CGC is off the hook since it would be second owner. This is what they prefer one does. No more warranty liability for them. No one posting has any personal agenda as we all have games only a few months old. I got lucky on GBLE but unlucky here. QC is not there. I want my game to look the way it should and the warranty to be the way it should. I am a pinball customer and I buy new games and share experiences with no agenda. This is a Buyer Alert!

Your experience sounds much like mine, though I feel your playfield issues are worse. I spoke with Doug today, and he also offered me the 5 year warranty. I told him a verbal warranty doesn't hold much weight, and I'd like to see something in writing that would breakdown the terms. A warranty that does actually offer anything to the customer, isn't worth the paper it's on (though at this point, it's not even on paper).

I told him I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt, and wanted to be a longterm collector of their games. He said there have only been 6 tickets opened up regarding pf issues, which means he either not telling the truth, or more people need to post their issues there, and not just here on Pinside.

This experience has made JJP looks so damn good, and have really left a bad taste in my mouth with CGC. We'll see what they come up with, but I highly doubt they're going to do what Stern or JJP would do, which is to get replacements out to people with truly defective pfs.

Doug said that the chipping issue will affect all games. These are his words. But for it to happen in less than 100 games, is not acceptable. I have chipping on every edge of my MMR, and you can check the dedicated thread, and see I never once made a complaint. Because it happened after over 1000 plays, and at that point, I just put on Cliffys and figured I'd learn from it.

I think CGC has a lot of people waiting to see how they resolve this, before they spend any more money with them. I am one of them. And I am hoping they do something for us that makes me want to be a fan again.

#3820 12 months ago
Quoted from cooked71:

It cant be worth the backlash and unhappy customers. Don't look at what each replacement costs relative to one game - look at what it costs to address the issues relative to the entire value of your business. It costs nothing and the benefits of gaining an incredibly loyal and happy customer base are priceless.

Well said. And hopefully they take this advice. I had the money for MBR sitting in my account, and was going to call my dealer the day of the unveiling. But now the money will sit in the bank, until I see what CGC does with all of the unsatisfied customers in this thread.

I'll stress it again... I have a MMR with lots of chipping, and never even opened a ticket. But the state of my AFMR after about 90 games is totally unacceptable.

I'm tried of complaining. I want CGC to do right by us, and let's move on.

#3839 12 months ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

I think this thread is being run by a few negative nancy’s and isn’t reflective of the overall condition of the machines being delivered.

According to Doug, EVERY game will have chipping issues if Cliffys are not installed. That's directly from the horse's mouth.

#4056 12 months ago

It doesn't matter what side of this argument you land on. The bottom line is, the playfield issues (planking, chipping, and colors) are legitimate reasons to be unsatisfied with your purchase.

This is more about the piss poor service that CGC provided (or didn't) to resolve these issues with the customers. If you had a minor issue (as I did in the beginning) it was handled very rapidly. But anything past a few plastics replacements seems to be where the warranty on these games and the service from CGC ends.

The real sad part about this for me, is that I was so stoked to buy that next game! But the way my case, and many others I have read have been handled, I just can't do it with confidence and good faith.

And if you're in the camp that has no complaints, then consider yourself lucky, and know that your next purchase with them could very well be one with issues, and at that point, you may have some empathy for the others here who are dealing with that.

#4087 12 months ago

Had an urge to play AFM tonight (even though I still haven't put all the Cliffys on) and ended up beating it for the third time on my first game. Had a lot to finish with just one ball left, and having it cradled on that right flipper with the RTU scoop to hit was intense!

Come on CGC!!! You made a great game here! Stand behind it!!!!!

#4130 11 months ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

Nice looking game, nice looking playfield. They can make a really nice play field no question about it! It's too bad everyone didn't get one like yours.

Too soon to call it... If the game has been lightly played, and flippers are set to a lower strength, it will take longer for the chipping to show up. Doug said it with his own words: "Every game is going to have the chipping issue. Install Cliffys."

So it's not a matter of how nice it looks now, it's how nice it might not look tomorrow.

#4166 11 months ago

Why don't we just compile a list of members with issues, and we'll give CGC the opportunity to address the issues:

1) Damien - Chipping after less than 100 plays
2) Onwallst - Planking pf

Feel free to add...

#4168 11 months ago

And as a side note... I'm really hopeful that CGC will do right by customers with pf issues.

I have money burning a hole in my pocket for an MBr! Even recently passed on a gorgeous original.

#4180 11 months ago

I don't think CGC has done anything to resolve any issues with pfs that have been posted here lately as they're busy ramping up for Texas.

As a business owner, it seems the sensible thing for them to do, would be to try putting out some of the fires here, so people feel motivated to buy game #3.

I personally am holding on to see what they do, and if they impress, I'll be putting in an order day one!

#4212 11 months ago

Trying to install the Cliffy under the mothership, but the two post won't budge.

Any trick to get them out?

#4214 11 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

Try unscrewing them up and out.
LTG : )

Unscrewing how? They're rounded posts.

Nuts are removed from bottom, but they are tight to the pf.

#4217 11 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

Remove rubber sleeve. Put a rag around it and vice grips.
LTG : )

I've been turning this thing for 20 minutes and it's not budging.

From the top am I turning clockwise or counterclockwise? I assumed counter.

I've completely ripped up the bolt trying to get it out.


#4227 11 months ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

Have you taken the nut or whatever under the playfield under the posts?? I could not budge and realized there was a nut or something under the playfield holding the post in I'm embarrassed but just in case you did the same, I'm posting it.

Yes, nut is off.

Bolts are budging. Pulling out the ol' hammer!

#4231 11 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

You got the right nut off ?
Just asking.
LTG : )

Haha yup.