How do I prevent the glass from rattling when sound plays or the shaker enables?

Thanks!

Ok, I"ll use electric tape, thanks!

Also, is it normal for the ball to often hit the metal intake under the spaceship, causing the ball to bounce back out, not making it into the hole? I have a plastic playfield protector and am curious to find out if that is causing the ball to jump up a bit more often than it would usually.

Thanks

Yes, I did flip it at one point... will try to flip it back

I'd never route my AFMrLE, BUT... I've been curious to find out how much one of these typically brings in at a busy location? I know it's difficult to tell, but I'm sure some have done this already and justified my purchase by convincing myself I could always put it out on the street to earn money if I ever needed the income? If it can make money, than I can justify buying more too.

The electrical tape seems to have worked.

Were you able to get the black screw holders flipped? I could not flip them on mine, as there were small tabs on the top of the screw holders. I had to trim the small tabs on the end of the screw holders in order for them to fit in the holes of both the original plastic and the plastic protector.

I also received a triangular shaped plastic protector with 3 screw holes in it, and cannot for the life of me find where it goes. Let me know if you got that piece too, as my 3 emails to pinbits have gone unanswered

I also get air balls when the gate is down below the mothership, and the target in front of the hole is also down. The ball will hit the metal scoop and either fall in behind it or bounces back out not making it down the hole. This seems to have started after I installed my playfield protector, but I also reset to manufacture'rs defaults which did change the game setup from when I first unboxed it. Maybe the flippers are set stronger now. ( I did the reset just after I isntalled the pp )

Should I try moving the gates up a bit when they are in the lowered position, so that it is more flush with the playfield/plastic protector? The ball does get hung up in that spot when the gate is lowered sometimes. After 10 seconds the gate comes up and the ball comes down, but not sure if that is also caused by the pp or if the gate lowers too deep, not being flush.

I've been wondering, what happens when 2 LEDs burn out? Is it possible to replace the LEDs using a soldering iron, or does the whole PCB need to be replaced for certain LED groups? I have not looked at it closely yet, but am curious to find out how replacing LEDs has been engineered.

Ok, what if the last one burns out too due to a bad batch of LEDs which does happen?

Perfect, I'll try that tonight!

Oh, they are surface mount too Any idea what size SMD package? Is it possible to solder them by hand or is a microscope required? I'm thinking the way the LED is PWM'd to emulate an older style bulb may wear out the LED much faster than if just left on at a constant voltage which is how they are tested I think.

Where do I find a comprehensive list of features programmed? I did not see this feature you mention in the book I need to learn all the possible tricks!

Thank you!!

I got the cliffys but could not get info. on installing them. Anything I should know before installing them?

Thanks!

Good info, thanks. What do you mean by 'drive' them out... do they strip or do you mean a power driver?

thx

Does anyone know where the cliffys go? I found a place for most of them, but where does the 'WMS-EJRT-Williams Bally right side under rail shooter eject' go? I see it goes on the shooter lane somehow...

These: http://passionforpinball.com/balleject/Right-side-ejects001.jpg

What balls should I get?

Has anyone installed a playfield protector AND a cliffy at the target hole below the spaceship? The pp overlaps the cliffy a bit, and it was recommended I put the sheet over the cliffy, but that would cause air balls due to the pp making a bit of a 'ramp'

Thanks

My pp covers the whole playfield so I would need to remove it, or cut the pp back a bit so it does not overlap.

If i cut back the pp a bit, I could have the best of both worlds though... just wanting to ensure that is the right way to install a pp together with a cliffy.

How do I lower the target gate under the spaceshipt to adjust it? Do I need to manually trigger the targets or is there a menu?

UPDATE: I successfully installed the cliffy for the dropdown target under the spaceship, overlapping the playfield protector over the cliffy. No air balls at all, and I did not have to cut the pp.

Looks good, but I don't see a playfield protector there. My playfield protector is a sheet covering the whole playfield, and when I tried to put the cliffy over the pp, it would not fit and the cliffy would bend and pop off if I let it go... Also, the pp does not go all the way up to the edge of the hole, so the cliffy can only partially cover the pp, which may be causing it to pop off.

I have my cliffy under the pp, and it works great with no air balls. I think having the pp over the edge of the cliffy helps smooth out the transition to the cliffy, as thin as it it. I'll be installing the rest of the cliffys later today!

I'm installing the cliffy under the mothership. How do I hammer out those posts? I am banging on them and they are not budging

How do I put them back in after? Is it just as difficult to get them in? Thanks!

Ok, I see what you mean for the screws.

I will try pulling the posts up with vice-grips. Should I grip on the post or the larger diameter bottom part of the post? I clamped them onto the post and tried to pull up and wiggle left/right but the post was torquing a bit... don't want to break it and also don't want to pull up hard, punch myself in the face and take 1/2 of the playfield top layer along with it

Maybe I can have the Mrs. pull on my shoulders while I pull on the posts, resulting in twice the kinetic energy applied and the posts coming loose.

UPDATE: I successfully removed the posts, by wrapping the end of the vice-grips with electric tape and twisting the posts out. Same getting them back in, twisted them in. All good!

And if anyone is wondering if they should get cliffys, I would say yes, as there was already a bit of damage starting on the hole below the spaceship... caught it just in time.

A few hundred at least

I also noticed there is already a metal protector on the out hole ( SOL? ) to the right of the spaceship. I'm guessing this is a 'mantis' type protector? I get it now, but do I remove the mantis in favor of a cliffy, or will the mantis offer excellent protection even though it does not cover the top of the playfield? I left the mantis style in there for now...

Roughly how much would the backbox weight if I slide off the glass and speakers? I'm curious in case I ever need to move it, I think it would be easier and less chance of damage if I remove the backbox...

I didn't understand why some would not want NIB, but now I get it... I think it's so hard for the manufacturer to get the build perfect with so many moving parts and test edge cases, it's up to the first owner to test/tweak it.

Do the NIB Stern pins also have these types of issues?

My #254 playfield #836 ran perfect out of the box with no issues. I did have to move the left and right outlane stoppers to the middle as they were not tight and had moved all the way up. I installed full cliffys ( kept mantis in SOL as I think it's better than the cliffy for that hole ), full playfield protector, felt lined metal washers for the legs, full plastic protectors set with not 1 scratch or blemish on it, not even on the cabinet/backbox. There was a loose ring, plastic washer and screw in the bottom of the cabinet when I unboxed it, but no parts were missing anywhere so they must have fallen in during manufacturing. I also have the shooter lane cliffys installed, was not that difficult with a clamp. Removing the pressed-in posts is actually super-easy with no hammering/tapping required, just vice grips with electrical tape around the ends to prevent scratching, removing the post rubber and gripping/twisting the posts out slowly with little force. Putting them back in was the same, super easy when twisting them in with a bit of force, but it nudges in slowly. I wore rubber gloves too while working on it too so no finger prints anywhere I used a digital level to adjust it perfect at 6.5 as the analog one that comes with it is off.

Which mylar do I get and where do I order it?

Thanks!

Very good idea. I'm starting to think of removing the mantis and putting in the Cliffys instead, and using my ball trough cliffy for the SOL as you have done...

I set the flippers back to default. My guess is there is a chance the issue may be related to some kind of overflow bug that only happens randomly once in a while. Maybe the code that does the math ( deducting/adding power ) does not get run if set to default, so no chance if math error.

Sounds like you should have bought an LE, and that the LE with the topper, even at 1000 unit runs, is worth more than the non-LE or people would not be looking to upgrade their non-LE. If they decide to make it easy for non-LEs to become LEs, I won't ever buy one again, but I know they won't do that, since it would be tricking one set of customers into thinking they are getting something limited and exclusive, and then changing that contract.

You may not 'care', but for those who do, and paid the premium, it's important. If it's not important, don't buy an LE. Those of us who paid more for an LE took a risk, and if that risk means the value is more down the road cause people wanted an exclusive LE topper, than can buy mine.

It's simple though. Limited Edition means it's limited runs, period. You can't get make the same topper available to everyone after selling it as limited edition with a serial number without legal ramifications. They know that. If they don't want to deal with 'stomping feet', ( making something reasonable and legally binding sound childish ) than they should not make LEs.

How so exactly? I installed one right away and gameplay has not been affected one bit from what I can tell... let me know I'm curious to find out how it does.

good point. It should be different mini saucers and not the ones that came with the LE. That may be the case since we paid extra for 'metal finish' paint on the saucers. I hope we did not get snookered on the mini saucer kits being the exact same ones we got I realize some 'can't be bothered', but I was planning on getting all the remakes but recently opted for a TNA as my dealer would not budge on a price or provide any incentive even though I was repeat customer, referred a friend and expressed my interest in getting all the remakes with the same serial number. I recently found out I may not get the same serial number or there was nothing official so I bought the TNA instead of the MMr I was going to get until they release the next one... I just figured they have many guys like me lined up to pay $10,000 on a pinball, they must have lots of customers lined up if there was no wiggle room for any repeat customers or they can do stuff after the fact, like they did with MMr now that I think of it...

I don't think that is legal, but yeah, something like that. I think it's a problem if people get together to communicate in any way to agree on how much they will all charge for something... there is a law or something... but you are right, there was NO room, even a small repeat buyer's incentive. The good news is my TNA is going to be awesome, and I can play it by ear with the new remake release but not count on it as a sure thing. Here in Canada, the bread companies are giving back all customers $25 because they had all agreed to sell a loaf of bread at the same price and they got caught. ( just last week )

I don't mind paying a premium, but don't want to be forced to non-negotiate each time my serial number comes up if I purchase multiple units over time, essentially paying the same as a new customer that has not built up a relationship over time.

Others do have a chance to buy anything they want, including one that is limited, or an LE.

Most of us who paid for an LE don't care about resale value as we are not selling it, but what would be 'odd' is spending ten-K and not considering the resale value. I'm sure you do.
As you stated, the LE limits the supply ahead of the purchase, so making that supply unlimited after accepting money is just, well fraud. You obviously don't understand this, as you keep harping about getting stuff you did not pay for, stuff that came with the LE that you now want. I'm just protecting my purchase by voicing my opposition. We just care about getting what we paid good money for, an LE. You have an LE yet you still are attempting to punch a hole it its actual value, nice.

The fact that this question is being asked should be a flag to CGC that there is confusion around what it means to own a CGC LE. They should have a small blurb on their website stating exactly what their corporate policy is on this, for example, will any of the LE toys be sold as kits, including the topper, and which parts of the LE are guaranteed to be limited. Same with LE serial numbers, does the previous, LE buyer get first right of refusal on the next LE? I think having an LE is a no-brainer as some of us are looking for a more unique machine even if some consider 1000 to be a large number. CGC has disclosed ahead of time that only 1000 will be made which is fine with me, but the same consideration should be applied to the actual parts that make up that unit, including topper and min spaceships. In my opinion, CGC is skatting on thin ice with the release of mini saucer kits IF they are the same finish as the LE ones.

Which flipper rubbers are the best ones for me to get, and also, should I get better balls than the ones that came with it?

Thanks

Cool, thanks.

Another question: Those LEDs are soldered directly onto the PCB right? LEDs often fail in 'batches' so even if there are 3 LEDs running at 20%, if 1 goes, there is a chance all 3 will, and others on the game. I'm super-curious to find out exactly what the strategy is in replacing LEDs on remakes. I see PICs and other uCs being shipped to the customers, but will a full PCB need to be shipped if LEDs go out? Again, having 2 LEDs boost their power to make up for 1 failed LED in the group of 3 will not help, as often LEDs burn out due to manufacturing issues and not a 'faulty' single LED. The most important issue though is in the long run, the LEDs will expire at the same rate, so again, having 2 make up for 1 going out won't help, all LEDs will need to be replaced... This to me is a design issue that has not been cleared up, maybe because it IS an major issue and there is no good answer? Scott over at TNA made all his LEDs modular and replaceable. I've asked CGC with no answer.

The fact that replacing a burnt LED required a technician is a major design flaw. I am one of those go can work with tiny SMB, which is the reason I'm very concerned. It's actually a major deal breaker too, as other have mentioned, so if this is the case, and a technician is required to use special equipment to change a bulb, it will affect the bottom line for certain. Now that I know there is no reasonable answer to this design flaw, I will also stay away from getting any other remakes, and stick to getting a super-nice original.

It's good to know it's not unique to the remakes, but I wish there was a better solution other than referring people to a qualified technician. I want something that I can keep and work on for years to come, and thought I had found that in the remakes. The good news is my attention is on my TNA which is all about being modular, but still would be into the remakes if there was not this flaw in the design. I'm not worried about the PCB or Pics as they pop right in, but it's just a nagging, unnecessary concern. I tried hard to be a remake collector.

Is this not a legitimate question? Why should I not be concerned about this aspect, I just want to understand the logic that has gone into the design. Home use or route, they will burn just as much. At 8 hours per day, that is 15 years max life for all the LEDs in the pin. I guess that is far enough of a kick down the road for it not to be a problem today. Is what I mentioned inaccurate in any way? Most manufacturers claim '20,000' hours, but no 3rd party tests have been done, and the life of a good LED should be milliions of hours. The fact is, due to the cheap electronics coming from china, LEDs fail, and there are known cases of bad batches. My guess is this LED problem will surface sooner or later.

I'm curious, what do you base the lifespan on? There are so many factors involved, but most important I think is how the LEDs are driven. What if the glowing simulation actually puts more strain on the LEDs? For example, a bad PWM can kill flippers coils if not done right? I'm just wondering and asking and that is what I meant about not legitimate, or do not be concerned... I just like to base my findings on facts and have a tough time understanding how these LEDs won't be a problem. I realize the design cannot be changed, and that the LEDs will likely take years to fail in most cases, unless there was a bad batch.

Excellent points. I guess I just need to get my head around the fact that they are not bulbs and that for this design, not easily replaceable but like you said, other stuff will fail too, and I personally can fix a surface mount LED just as easily as a FET or other component, so I'm realizing this is not going to be an issue for ME, so I'm changing my mind I was putting myself in the shoes of someone who cannot fix it themselves and seeing it as a negative, but in reality, if many fail, I will be a plus for me really since I can whip out the small soldering tip and magnifying glass and fix it in 10 seconds. If there are used ones around in 15 years with burnt LEDs, I'll get a deal and fix them myself. Also, if newer/better LEDs come out in let say 10 years, I can upgrade them myself etc, so all good.

It's my first pinball, and I really do love it. I play each day... I'm asking all this because I want to get more over the long run and the LED design was temporarily keeping me away from getting a MMr in Feb when they do a small batch. I know I sound like Cartman from South Park about the LEDs, but just was 'curious, kay'.

It must be tough manufacturing these things and getting everything perfect. I can imagine just getting good reliable workers who have patience and attention to produce quality products is easier said than done. Maybe they should have 1 reliable quality assurance worker going over an inspection checklist before boxing, taking 1 or more pictures above and bellow the playfield of key areas, signing and dating the inspection checklist and including a copy in the box. It would save CGC time and money in support for sure.

Maybe the best approach is to monitor for damage and add a cliffy as soon as any shows. I saw a bit under the mothership, and a tiny bit in the shooter lane so I installed those. I don't see any damage anywhere else so far... would like to turn down my flippers though as it's hitting a tiny bit hard.

Yeah, it makes no sense at all I think I hit a nerve.

I was not notified by anyone that my AFMrLE had defective flipper firmware, and when I opened a ticket, I was told my dealer should have contacted me. Did anyone else get overlooked when it came to being notified of the flipper default setting? Are there any other notices I should be aware of? My dealer was Player One in Canada.

UPDATE: I just got a call from Doug at CGC, and he said I should have received it from the dealer. I can't blame Doug, he has enough on his plate, but damn, it is frustrating as hell finding out about stuff in forums and not the dealer I spent money with.

Did you get the notification email from Player One?

I don't think anyone is whining ( sounds childish )... most of us are super-into this and are on a mission to perfect... so all the 'negatives' come to light and get dealt with that way. How do you know something is the best unless you try to punch a hole in it? If it was all sunshine and lollipops, the quality and design would never improve, so all the 'complaints' is actually valuable feedback companies used to pay focus groups for. If someone does not care, they won't give strong feedback and demand more. ( supply and demand ). The worse thing that can happen is people lose interest, and that won't happens anytime soon by the looks of the posts

The TNA are having LED problems. Having a way to swap out LED 'pods' is what I had in mind, not reverting back to legacy style LEDs. The future is modular.

yes, but some of us were never notified to stop playing at -20 flipper power. It's like buying a new car, not getting the recall notice, and being told by the manufacturer that the dealer is responsible, but the dealer not sending the notice or stating the manufacturer was responsible. Everyone expects mistakes, but we need stuff like this improved upon so feedback is the best medicine. Maybe your dealer did their job, but some of us bought from the BIGGEST dealer and got f-all.

If someone wants a 4 pin collection, does it make sense to get AFMr, MMr and Monsterbash, since those are all very similar in playfied ( fan ) Would it make sense to get more of a variety for the 4?

I realize it's up to me, and that I will have fun no matter what games I get, but I wonder, would the similarities between the 3 of the 4 pins not justify getting something like CCC or TNA instead of something very similar? I"m thinking the top list is not the best gauge of what to get for a small collection.

i like it!

we need a system

wow, that sucks man... I sure hope mine does not do that It it a home use only? Did you hammer on the thing to wear-tear it?? It looks like it hit a corner of a door while being moved or something...

I have a TNA coming and was debating not getting the butter/clearcoat finish, but now that I know the stuff can peel, I'll go with the butter... CGC should offer clearcoat cabs!.. unless having clearcoat cabinet is a bad idea?

I just checked my cab, and it's cracking just like that, but not as bad yet, but starting for sure. I'm not sure I'm willing to accept that.

It's interesting that mine is cracking exactly the same way, with that small white crack near the black rail showing now. I've turned off my shaker for now.

Where else should I apply wood glue?

ok thanks!

I"m not doing that to my new $10,000 machine This should have been done, and is the responsibility of the manufacturer if not done correctly. I'll check mine in the next couple of days when I have time ( doing this for funzies ) but man, this could be a problem if they are splitting and my decals are already damaged. This is 101 woodworking for sure. If the joints were starved of glue, it will never be possible to get the same glue surface area coverage as would be possible if done before assembling the pieces.

I don't want to do a quick fix without calling them first though, so I'll open a ticket soon.

double-you-tee-eff. 'accidentally'

Also, is there not a benefit in having decals over silkscreen? It's easier to replace/fix a decal no?

I had a bit on the shooter lane where the ball pops out. I added the 2 cliffys that go there and it's good.

Still no word from my dealer, no email nothing... Next time, I buy from Tommy at Nitro.

My Pic2.0 went out to me today UPS! Will receive by end of week.

Got my Pic2.0 by UPS today! Thanks Jerry at Player One!

Would the ground not just attract a spark to one of the chips even if it's grounded through the power supply?

I need to remember to use my static guard wrist band when I work on it, as I completely unplug mine when working on it...

I thought my metallic saucers were going to be metal... but realize metallic does not necessarily mean made of metal... are they supposed to be plastic?

ah, ok then, I like original

I have not had time to look at my package yet... Do I just power down, put on my wrist-static-band, pull the old Pic and push in the new one?

I"m still not clear on the benefits of getting an old one... older parts, damage, more work, fewer features all for the same price? Maybe if the older one was less than 1/2 the price of a new one, I would consider an old one. I think some may 'feel' they own something vintage with the older one, but it's like saying an old Ferrari is better than a new one... Also, as soon as you start modifying the old one, it's no longer a real 'vintage' it's like an old car with lots of kit stuff..

If they did make him sign a non-disclose agreement, we will never know!

What is your playfield number?

To go along on the car analogy, some older guys did not like that the new Ferrari had fuel injection as they could not work on it as easily, and were skeptical on how reliable this new design would be. Same with on-board computers and automatic transmissions. An extreme car analogy would be the newest high-end BMWs. Very few mechanics can work on a newer BMW, even changing a mirror is super-complex, and may involve replacing large multi-purpose parts instead of fixing the parts. The mirrors are partly built-into the panels and doors, so you can't just replace a mirror on a new BMW, but you can on an old one. I think there is a sweet-spot there in between, which brings me back to making sure the LEDs are modular on the remakes.

Is it even possible to clearcoat a playfield in a way that chipping will not happen around holes? I can see using a harder wood for the playfield making a big difference for dimpling... but at one point, does it not just become a polymer/plastic playfield if you have so many coats of a clearcoat mix which can handle chipping?

Maybe the chemicals the used years ago are not longer 'legal' to use or not considered environmentally friendly... seems to me making something very durable may involve toxic materials of some type, but as you say, maybe some experts can chime-in.

I'm not sure why it would be so much more expensive to use good, dry, solid wood, and a good quality clear coat that won't chip too easily, like Ron does.

Do you mean he lets the clearcoats dry for weeks at a time, totalling months when combining each coat? I can see spraying the clearcoat takes a few minutes, but the drying/curing may take time. So the extra cost would be storage while they cure? What other costs or efforts go into making them as good as Ron's?

what are the playfield numbers on the good ones?

If anyone posts pictures or issues with a playfield, maybe include the palyfield number so we can determine if the issues originate from a bad series of playfields.

Where do we check for the skin tone color?

this is a bit odd no? I guess you're the "that's what she said" guy in here... ( the guy that makes dick jokes around other guys )

Is there a list being compiled of all known issues with AFMr?

Also, the cabinet decals cracking

To be fair, I would not have ever found out about the defective solenoid code and Pic2 was it not for this forum. CGC or my dealer never contacted me. I was contacted only when my Pic2 was shipped, and inquiring myself. I could have damaged my game, and not known for a while as the coil may not have burned out fully. I did notice my left flipper acting a big weird since I first got it and did not realize it could have been the code. I'm now interested in doing a full quality control inspection of my game, looking over every part which may have caused issues for other, so that not only can I get these issues resolved under warranty, but also uncover issues now that may go unnoticed until the warranty has expired.

Luck for what? I just thought having a simple list of issues will help guys like me who spent all kinds on this thing only to find out there are a bunch of hidden unknowns over and above what someone would usually have to deal with on a brand-new game. I did not know before I purchased this pinball that the payfield would chip so easily, I was sold the idea that AFMr was one of the best if not the best out there. I did not expect my cabinet decals to start cracking, I was sold that CGC has been making cabs for years and not to question the quality. It was the most expensive machine. I did not expect to get left out of the loop on major issues, specially after my dealer would not budge on the price and justified it as "not dealing with a guy in his basement in his underwear". I did not expect to have to resort to taking time out of running my business to investigate and gather information to put my mind at ease that I have not overlooked or missed issues which a seasoned pin guy would see. I can go on and on, but the fact is, I bought a TNA instead of a MMr. At this point, I would not buy another remake from CGC.

I have a skin tone playfield instead of orange... Should I open a support ticket?

Why do folks confuse reporting issues with a product as somehow being 'upset' or unhappy with life, or need to be told 'just have fun man! don't worry so much about it'. That is what you would tell a child... Also, how do you know what everyone else's idea of a good time is? how could you possibly know what others want or are thinking? I personally have a blast troubleshooting and striving for perfection. What sucks is not getting straight answers, for example; "Where do I find official notifications for my AFMrLE?"

I'm a bit embarrassed to say I installed a full playfield protector when I got my AFMrLE a few months ago, and will leave it on. ( total newb move I guess, but I"m leaving it on to protect ) Will any of the playfield issues show themselves even though I have a PP? Like crazing or other issues... I'm thinking maybe I'm masking issues by not playing on it, and am thinking maybe I should find out before the warranty runs out.

Also, I have a blast playing the pinball machine, but I guess I really suck since I never put in my initials. I thought I was doing great with all the lights and sounds effects going off, but not so much... Is there a strategy I should start implementing to get a decent score?

yep, that video did the trick