Quoted from Mike_J:

I am posting on behalf of everyone in this thread who has posted with an issue.
Have these issues been rectified? Have the buyers been made whole in these instances?
I would love to buy an MBR, but CGC's track record for big ticket fixes under warranty is not great.

Quoted from EricHadley:

CGC has the best track record on pinside for being transparent and communicating both the good news and the bad. Perhaps there isn’t an issue? Stop digging.

Quoted from Damien:

I have not heard anything back regarding the warranty extension, but Doug did say it could take a couple weeks.
I'm just hoping that we all see some sort of action from them before Texas. I was chomping at the bit for that Monster Bash before hearing all of these people that had unresolved pf issues (not plastics replacements and shooter adjustments).

Quoted from ZenTron:

mike_j , it might be good to review the warranty and for any specific questions related to coverage send them an email. The email address for warranty coverage is in the pdf.
http://www.chicago-gaming.com/files/AFM_WARRANTY.pdf

Quoted from hoby1:

Still waiting to see a list or speadsheet with all these wide spread major issues.

Quoted from hoby1:

Still waiting to see a list or speadsheet with all these wide spread major issues.

Quoted from cooked71:

I think vireland needs to create a graph.

Quoted from PinMonk:

Oh, no. It has to be an egregious problem like half a year with no "every two weeks" updates before I get in the mix. And I don't have a nude playfield, thank god.
That said, as much as we love AfMr LE, we won't be getting any more CGC games until they improve their lacking warranty (written or implied, I don't care) on the LEs to cover second owners in the warranty period like the other big boys do.

Quoted from PinMonk:

Meh. It's bad form. Stern and JJP will take care of issues for 2nd owners (not for esoteric stuff, but real problems) even though their warranty doesn't explicitly allow it. And given how much pins move around at the LE and CE level, this makes sense. If CGC wants to compete, they should, too. We buy a handful of pins a year, which at $7-$9000 a pop is nothing to sneeze at. I know there are others that buy much more. Offering the same protection as their competitors, even if only at the LE level, should be a no-brainer.

Quoted from Damien:

I have not heard anything back regarding the warranty extension, but Doug did say it could take a couple weeks.
I'm just hoping that we all see some sort of action from them before Texas. I was chomping at the bit for that Monster Bash before hearing all of these people that had unresolved pf issues (not plastics replacements and shooter adjustments).

Quoted from pintechev:

They will compete for the sheer reason that they are making the most coveted titles from the heyday of DMD pinballs and making them NIB. It’s not like they’re making original themes; they’re the nostalgia card for the kids who loved them in the 90s who now can afford to have them at home.

Quoted from PinMonk:

Well, that's great if they're not making clear mistakes like completely wrong colors on the playfield layers or shooter lanes half filled with putty under the clear that they indicate is fine. We'll see, but we're out on more expensive CGC pins until the warranty terms and coverage is competitive, and I don't think we're alone.

Quoted from pintechev:

I don’t see putty. I see knots in the wood beveled down to a cut through layers. Do you *really* think that CGC would use black putty? Come on.

Quoted from PinMonk:

Well, that's great if they're not making clear mistakes like completely wrong colors on the playfield layers or shooter lanes half filled with putty under the clear that they indicate is fine. We'll see, but we're out on more expensive CGC pins until the warranty terms and coverage is competitive, and I don't think we're alone.

Quoted from pintechev:

And you continue to make it sound like CGC is putting it flaw after flaw, and that’s simply not true. The majority of owners aren’t here, and the happy ones have nothing to post about. Forums are places where issues surface and congregate, sure, that makes sense. But you can’t and shouldn’t just create a reality that simple isn’t true/based in fact.

Quoted from Onwallst:

So here is the full version that was requested as it was a busy holiday weekend.
I put in my ticket on the CGC online system. I received an email and call promptly the next day, I returned the call the following day. The call was from “Doug” as he is referred to on this thread. He started the call off asking about where I live etc. His children live here and he went to College around here etc. Asked about my business’s etc. We then began the topic on the AFMr and the issues regarding the playfield. He said they would immediately send out the plastics and they use the same manufacture many others are using and not sure why they are having the issues. He said that the playfield manufacturing is mostly by hand. Only the routing is automated. It was stated they purchase their wood from a “secret source.” It is cedar and ash. I asked which the ball surface was. He stated that cedar was the playfield surface but said he may have that backwards. Since it is a handmade product no two are alike. I mentioned the color issues and was told that this was “artistic character” and was to be expected on a handmade product. They view this as completely acceptable. He said in their view they build the world’s finest pinball machines. They use a 13 layer screen process where Stern only uses a 5 layer process. Other playfield manufactures use a more automated process which they believe is inferior. I mention the wrong screen colors and again was told that is up to the “artist.” He said the inserts are also hand installed and also will be “unique” between play fields. I asked about the planking and he said it is not planking but was in the surface prior to screening from not being “a fully prepared surface” and that it would not get any worse. This is expected when you are dealing with a handmade natural product. I stated that it is getting worse. He disagreed. I also stated that I own many pinball machines and many of the recent pinball playfields were made in his shop and they aren’t doing this or look like that. I also stated my MMr LE does not look like this. I also stated I can’t find a AFMr in Colorado that is not doing this. Even the one at the local dealer looks like this. He stated that they have only received a few complaints and these artistic characteristics are to be expected and acceptable. He also stated that the Warranty is at CGC’s sole discretion and is only 12 months on the LE playfield which he was willing to extend to 5 years. (Medieval Madness 12 month’s electronic/6 months other, AFM CE, 6/3, AFM SE 12/6 and the AFM LE 24/12) He did agree to send me the diffusers that I could never get from my dealer on my MMR and that I could not get CGC to send directly to me in the past. At this point he went into pinside and the things people are posting on there. He said he has a few employees and friends on there. He said all these things are completely normal and people need to stop posting. At that point I told him I was a poster and had posted things on there. He said people need to understand we make the best pinball machines and this is not like manufactures issues. He said that I need to stop posting. I changed the subject and asked if they were going to send me an email in writing on what we chatted about. He said it will be in the ticket. At this point he brought up the posting again and began pressing that they do not want people posting issues. I finally had enough and politly said thank you for his time and I am looking forward to the parts.
After I hung up I felt like I was just bullied and smoothed talk to believe and accept what they are telling me. I immediately notified my dealer that I was uncomfortable with the solution.
Fact #1 The warranty is 100% discretionary by CGC and the customer has no recourse.
Fact#2 The CGC system is great for small items but large items are phone calls with no documentation. One can’t record a phone conversation with a person in Illinois or PPS in Nevada as you need all parties to consent to the recording. Many have recorded them but can’t publicly display them.
Fact#3 The product comes in a box. One can’t inspect a game until it is opened at that point one owns it and it is under the full discretion of CGC if they deem it is “defects in material or workmanship”
Fact#4 When I bought this game the sales sheet did not disclose that this was a handmade product and it would be different than pictured. It did not disclose that playfield chipping may occur, grainy lines and planking are acceptable, putty maybe in the shooter lane and colors will not match. When I buy a “remake” I assume it is going to look like the original that it was re manufactured from. This includes the correct playfield surface and colors. Chipping is not acceptable in my other games and should not be accepted here. If the above disclosure was made most of us would not purchase the product.
Fact#5 The sales sheet did not disclose that only the original purchaser is covered by the warranty and that "CGC, at its sole discretion, will be liable to repair or replace components which are returned to CGC during the warranty period. CGC will repair or replace any covered part at no charge, exclusive of shipping and handling charges or any labor to install the part. Unless instructed otherwise, all defective parts be properly packaged and returned to CGC freight prepaid…No one is authorized to make modifications to this limited warranty."
CGC or “Doug” will not fix these items immediately once someone opens a ticket as many believe. They do this only on small items. The customer is just talked to with a silver tongue. CGC is illustrating to consumers chipping, wrong colors, insert ghosting, planking, poorly prepped surfaces, and putty are all acceptable. They can increase the warranty 20 years if none of these issues are covered. Everyday for the next 4 ½ years I get to look at playfeild that looks like crap is the bottom line. If CGC is not going to Warranty their products on major issues then I will warn suspecting new buyers. We all are doing that. I wish mine looked like some of yours. I have had a few friends just sell their games and take the loss. It is the luck of the draw and you will never know what yours looks like until you open it. If new major issues emerge lots of luck.
I currently own 27 pinball machines which I believe are the top games and ones I enjoy. I also bought and sold around 75 games to find the games I like and ones that are in better shape with great mods. I am not a new person to pinball. I have bought games from every major manufacture and have never seen such a disregard for the customer. Don’t tell me you are the best but show me. No one would be posting on here if that was the case. I bought both the MMr LE and the AFMr LE from CGC with matching numbers. Few can claim that. I have talked to many other customers/friends that wont post on here that have moved on. I will receive hate emails and pm’s. Some of these are friends of the manufacture and others I assume are employees. If I too take the loss and move on, CGC is off the hook since it would be a second owner. Great way out. Only way to sell is huge discount as looks like crap. This is what they prefer one does. No more warranty liability for them. They are the only large manufacture that wont warranty the second owner during the original warranty period. CGC has a reason for that. No one posting has any personal agenda as we all have games only a few months old. I got lucky on GBLE but unlucky here. QC is not there. I want my game to look the way it should and the warranty to be the way it should. I am a pinball customer and I buy new games and share experiences with no agenda. This is a Buyer Alert!

Quoted from PinMonk:

Look, I can only go off what the few people that have posted what their interaction with CGC went like because CGC is asking other not to talk about their resolution (which makes no sense). And when CGC is saying the CLEARLY WRONG nude color screening mistake is an artistic thing, and normal for hand-mixed paint, that's a one buffalo chip too many.
Now, in my case, we got reasonable orange, not nude, and Doug handled the replacement Pic2.0 chip even though we're a second owner. He may even handle the crackling plastics issue since he said to open a ticket on it. All of that's great, and I appreciate my personal interactions so far. But, as long as these OTHER BS interactions are happening on bigger problems, no one should be cool with it, because someday it will be YOU being asked to eat a clearly mis-screened playfield because of the hand-mixed paint.

Quoted from pintechev:

I don’t see putty. I see knots in the wood beveled down to a cut through layers. Do you *really* think that CGC would use black putty? Come on.

Quoted from pintechev:

Yup; a few people. And If I had an issue, I’d have done what you did; work 1 with the manufacturer/distributor to get resolution.

Quoted from pintechev:

Yup; a few people.

Quoted from Mike_J:

If there are so few people, why is CGC stringing them along and not taking care of their problems?

Quoted from pintechev:

I don’t know what CGC is doing. How do you?

Quoted from Mike_J:

Despite CGC's best efforts, people talk.

Quoted from pintechev:

If you’re concerned, I would give Doug a call and talk through your concerns.

Quoted from PinMonk:

BS interactions

Quoted from pinballaddicted:

You hit the nail on the head!.. BS. enough said!

Quoted from Pathfinder:

I don't think the shooter lane knot is really all that bad. It is really tiny - look at the size of the screw head. Plywood is not perfect on the inside. The knots are only really fixed or avoided on the outer two plies. Inside, they may use filler to fix a knot if no-voids are specified. This is when they made the plywood not after. Is it an assumption that someone tried to repair the thing after machining? Making plywood that is perfect on every ply would be really expensive! So this one playfield just happened to have a knot there and there is a tiny cosmetic blemish in an area where few people would even look. If it isn't failing, I'd say that all is good. Why should CGC take a $1K+ hit for this? If anything, the local distributor could have accepted a return/exchange from the customer. It just isn't a warranty level issue. Maybe it is a return shipping cost issue if it was mail-ordered?
I'm also not getting why the nude paint is such an issue. My version has the orange, but it takes quite a keen eye to figure out that it is different than a nude color on the SOL lights. This is another blem that probably warranted an exchange at purchase rather than a repair after the fact. So maybe it took the owners so long to see these things that a return/exchange was not possible. Speculation on my part, I know, but inspect before your accept. If I were CGC, I might offer a discounted playfield to these owners, but little more... IMHO it is the distributor that should be flamed if they refused a return/exchange for these games.

Quoted from pinballaddicted:

Very well said. There are a few doing their best to put pressure on CGC through Pinside to give them what they want. Not in the good spirit of Pinside I think. I am with you. There are no real issues.

Quoted from pinballaddicted:

Very well said. There are a few doing their best to put pressure on CGC through Pinside to give them what they want. Not in the good spirit of Pinside I think. I am with you. There are no real issues.

Quoted from Lermods:

Cedar? No way, that’s a pretty soft wood. Ash, yes, they make baseball bats out of it. Something not right here.

Quoted from PtownPin:

Good lord are you guys looking at the same pic? so if you guys just paid $8300 for a NIB LE you would be satisfied with that play field? If so thats great for u, but if mine showed up that way I'd be irritated (as would most)...Thats by far the worst NIB shooter lane I've ever seen....I've seen better shooter lanes on play fields with 10,000 game plays.....CGC should be embarrassed that it left their factory.

Quoted from paynemic:

To the two main poster of “all the problems” (not calling you out by name, that’s bad form): CGC has fully addressed my major issue. Do you understand? My issue is resolved. I’m saying it. Done.
To the dude with the weird knot in your shooter lane: is your problem resolved? If you don’t reply, we will assume yes.
Why is it that the ONLY people harping on the “issues” are the people without them? Or not even owners of the game! Drop it. For real. I had real and serious issues JUST LIKE THE KNOT. They are resolved!!! 100%. CGC took care of me and it was simple and quick. Personal contact with excellent customer service. They like to keep stuff personal and not blab all over. It’s how they choose to do business.
If anyone still has actual unresolved problems, feel free to post. But this thread has completely been ruined by a few people who won’t drop this discussion despite a complete lack of evidence of unaddressed issues. Take it elsewhere.