(Topic ID: 192072)

Attack From Mars Remake (AFMr) Owners Club


By Pin_Guy

1 year ago



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#3901 1 year ago
Quoted from neverahighscore:

I think that is a great idea. If you're close to dealership, get game shipped to them and then have it setup to give it a full inspection before taking it home. I will do this for MBr

It's a good idea that shouldn't be necessary. However, I will say that the local dealer here has one that has the Grainy Planking play field on there floor!

#3902 1 year ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

No, I have never filed a chargeback on an 8K pinball machine.
I have filed a chargeback on a 12K oven that never worked properly from the day it was installed. No matter how many technicians the manufacturer sent to my home, they could never get it to operate properly. I was told the performance we were experiencing with the oven was as good as it was going to get and there was nothing else that could be done. Within 2 weeks of the chargeback, the manufacturer picked up the oven from my home and a refund was issued.

Well I'm happy it worked for your oven, but something tells me the process wouldn't be as smooth for a pinball machine (small vs. large company, hand-built vs. machine produced, shipping cost, etc.). I'd also be surprised if many pinball distributors even accepted a CC payment for 8K (considering costly transaction fees). Most car companies limit a charge to 2-3k.

I think the suggestion recently put forth (regarding buying/verifying from a reputable/local distributor) makes the most sense. The only problem is convenience, since pinball distributors are fairly small in numbers (i.e. not on every street corner

snaroff

#3903 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Well I'm happy it worked for your oven, but something tells me the process wouldn't be as smooth for a pinball machine (small vs. large company, hand-built vs. machine produced, shipping cost, etc.). I'd also be surprised if many pinball distributors even accepted a CC payment for 8K (considering costly transaction fees). Most car companies limit a charge to 2-3k.
I think the suggestion recently put forth (regarding buying/verifying from a reputable/local distributor) makes the most sense. The only problem is convenience, since pinball distributors are fairly small in numbers (i.e. not on every street corner
snaroff

Plus the added stress of a buyer backing out after unboxing. Not fun, and I wouldn't put myself at risk as a distributor.

#3904 1 year ago
Quoted from PinLen83:

Plus the added stress of a buyer backing out after unboxing. Not fun

This exactly! I really don't want to visit another state, have the distributor open the box for me and find out it has the same issue. Uhmm could you open up another one?

#3905 1 year ago

Well if I decide to get a MBr, I guess I will just drive to Chicago and Pick the one I want.

#3906 1 year ago

Here is some food for thought on playfields...

When you purchase a playfield from CPR (which I've done for several of my restorations), they place them into 3 "buckets" (Gold, Silver, & Bronze). Gold being the most flawless/expensive. CPR has pretty strict inspection criteria for what constitutes a Gold vs. Silver vs. Bronze PF.

When a pinball manufacturer is taking delivery of PF's, they have the same issue as CPR...not all PF's are equal. In an ideal world, the pinball manufacturer would do the same inspection as CPR and only use "Gold" PF's. Unfortunately, there is tension between producing/shipping machines and iterating with PF inspection & manufacturing.

snaroff

#3907 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Well I'm happy it worked for your oven, but something tells me the process wouldn't be as smooth for a pinball machine (small vs. large company, hand-built vs. machine produced, shipping cost, etc.). I'd also be surprised if many pinball distributors even accepted a CC payment for 8K (considering costly transaction fees). Most car companies limit a charge to 2-3k.
I think the suggestion recently put forth (regarding buying/verifying from a reputable/local distributor) makes the most sense. The only problem is convenience, since pinball distributors are fairly small in numbers (i.e. not on every street corner
snaroff

Get ready to be surprised, all of my NIB purchases (18) were paid in full with a credit card. I would never pay with cash, check or bank transfer for a 6K-9K pinball machine. If something goes wrong, I have no recourse on a fairly high end item and refuse to rely only on the good word of the distributor or manufacturer to help me out.

If you are an AMEX cardholder in good standing and provide AMEX with images of a cracking/split cabinet, chipped playfield or playfield discoloration, they will judge in your favor. I had called them with this specific question a few months ago.

I agree that buying local and having the opportunity to inspect the machine prior to purchase is the ideal scenario if possible.

#3908 1 year ago

Would most of these issues not be resolved by CGC having their quality assurance person use a dsl camera to take a picture of the playfield and cabinet as the last step before boxing? At least on the LEs?

#3909 1 year ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

Would most of these issues not be resolved by CGC having their quality assurance person use a dsl camera to take a picture of the playfield and cabinet as the last step before boxing? At least on the LEs?

Probably not!

#3910 1 year ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

Get ready to be surprised, all of my NIB purchases (18) were paid in full with a credit card.

Wow! I'm curious...how many distributors have you worked with?

snaroff

#3911 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

When you purchase a playfield from CPR (which I've done for several of my restorations), they place them into 3 "buckets" (Gold, Silver, & Bronze). Gold being the most flawless/expensive. CPR has pretty strict inspection criteria for what constitutes a Gold vs. Silver vs. Bronze PF.

I like CPR. I got a Silver pf for a Totan I restored. I never did find the flaw. I guess the LE owners got steel play fields!

#3912 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Wow! I'm curious...how many distributors have you worked with?
snaroff

I have purchased through a couple of distributors.

However, which distributors do not take a credit card? All of the big guys do and they typically add around 3.5% to the price which is good with me.

#3913 1 year ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

I have purchased through a couple of distributors.
However, which distributors do not take a credit card? All of the big guys do and they typically add around 3.5% to the price which is good with me.

AHHH...I take back my "WOW". Most folks aren't willing to throw another 3.5% down the drain for such a large purchase.

snaroff

#3914 1 year ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

I have purchased through a couple of distributors.
However, which distributors do not take a credit card? All of the big guys do and they typically add around 3.5% to the price which is good with me.

If you've bought 18 nib games and paid an additional 3.5% on each one, that's quite a bit of insurance to take out. If you figure an average nib is $6k, you've paid almost $4k in cc fees, yet never had to make a claim.

I've bought many nib games too, never had an issue I could not work out. I do feel for those with bad afm playfields, however, and hope it gets resolve amicably. My afm is so nice I was eyeing an mbr, but may hold off now.

#3915 1 year ago

Glad I read this thread, made my AFMr vs Star Wars decision easier

#3916 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

AHHH...I take back my "WOW". Most folks aren't willing to throw another 3.5% down the drain for such a large purchase.
snaroff

True, but I am guessing most of the folks stuck in the boat with CGC would gladly pay the 3.5% now.

#3917 1 year ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

So here is the full version that was requested as it was a busy holiday weekend.
I put in my ticket on the CGC online system. I received an email and call promptly the next day, I returned the call the following day. The call was from “Doug” as he is referred to on this thread. He started the call off asking about where I live etc. His children live here and he went to College around here etc. Asked about my business’s etc. We then began the topic on the AFMr and the issues regarding the playfield. He said they would immediately send out the plastics and they use the same manufacture many others are using and not sure why they are having the issues. He said that the playfield manufacturing is mostly by hand. Only the routing is automated. It was stated they purchase their wood from a “secret source.” It is cedar and ash. I asked which the ball surface was. He stated that cedar was the playfield surface but said he may have that backwards. Since it is a handmade product no two are alike. I mentioned the color issues and was told that this was “artistic character” and was to be expected on a handmade product. They view this as completely acceptable. He said in their view they build the world’s finest pinball machines. They use a 13 layer screen process where Stern only uses a 5 layer process. Other playfield manufactures use a more automated process which they believe is inferior. I mention the wrong screen colors and again was told that is up to the “artist.” He said the inserts are also hand installed and also will be “unique” between play fields. I asked about the planking and he said it is not planking but was in the surface prior to screening from not being “a fully prepared surface” and that it would not get any worse. This is expected when you are dealing with a handmade natural product. I stated that it is getting worse. He disagreed. I also stated that I own many pinball machines and many of the recent pinball playfields were made in his shop and they aren’t doing this or look like that. I also stated my MMr LE does not look like this. I also stated I can’t find a AFMr in Colorado that is not doing this. Even the one at the local dealer looks like this. He stated that they have only received a few complaints and these artistic characteristics are to be expected and acceptable. He also stated that the Warranty is at CGC’s sole discretion and is only 12 months on the LE playfield which he was willing to extend to 5 years. (Medieval Madness 12 month’s electronic/6 months other, AFM CE, 6/3, AFM SE 12/6 and the AFM LE 24/12) He did agree to send me the diffusers that I could never get from my dealer on my MMR and that I could not get CGC to send directly to me in the past. At this point he went into pinside and the things people are posting on there. He said he has a few employees and friends on there. He said all these things are completely normal and people need to stop posting. At that point I told him I was a poster and had posted things on there. He said people need to understand we make the best pinball machines and this is not like manufactures issues. He said that I need to stop posting. I changed the subject and asked if they were going to send me an email in writing on what we chatted about. He said it will be in the ticket. At this point he brought up the posting again and began pressing that they do not want people posting issues. I finally had enough and politly said thank you for his time and I am looking forward to the parts.
After I hung up I felt like I was just bullied and smoothed talk to believe and accept what they are telling me. I immediately notified my dealer that I was uncomfortable with the solution.
Fact #1 The warranty is 100% discretionary by CGC and the customer has no recourse.
Fact#2 The CGC system is great for small items but large items are phone calls with no documentation. One can’t record a phone conversation with a person in Illinois or PPS in Nevada as you need all parties to consent to the recording. Many have recorded them but can’t publicly display them.
Fact#3 The product comes in a box. One can’t inspect a game until it is opened at that point one owns it and it is under the full discretion of CGC if they deem it is “defects in material or workmanship”
Fact#4 When I bought this game the sales sheet did not disclose that this was a handmade product and it would be different than pictured. It did not disclose that playfield chipping may occur, grainy lines and planking are acceptable, putty maybe in the shooter lane and colors will not match. When I buy a “remake” I assume it is going to look like the original that it was re manufactured from. This includes the correct playfield surface and colors. Chipping is not acceptable in my other games and should not be accepted here. If the above disclosure was made most of us would not purchase the product.
Fact#5 The sales sheet did not disclose that only the original purchaser is covered by the warranty and that "CGC, at its sole discretion, will be liable to repair or replace components which are returned to CGC during the warranty period. CGC will repair or replace any covered part at no charge, exclusive of shipping and handling charges or any labor to install the part. Unless instructed otherwise, all defective parts be properly packaged and returned to CGC freight prepaid…No one is authorized to make modifications to this limited warranty."
CGC or “Doug” will not fix these items immediately once someone opens a ticket as many believe. They do this only on small items. The customer is just talked to with a silver tongue. CGC is illustrating to consumers chipping, wrong colors, insert ghosting, planking, poorly prepped surfaces, and putty are all acceptable. They can increase the warranty 20 years if none of these issues are covered. Everyday for the next 4 ½ years I get to look at playfeild that looks like crap is the bottom line. If CGC is not going to Warranty their products on major issues then I will warn suspecting new buyers. We all are doing that. I wish mine looked like some of yours. I have had a few friends just sell their games and take the loss. It is the luck of the draw and you will never know what yours looks like until you open it. If new major issues emerge lots of luck.
I currently own 27 pinball machines which I believe are the top games and ones I enjoy. I also bought and sold around 75 games to find the games I like and ones that are in better shape with great mods. I am not a new person to pinball. I have bought games from every major manufacture and have never seen such a disregard for the customer. Don’t tell me you are the best but show me. No one would be posting on here if that was the case. I bought both the MMr LE and the AFMr LE from CGC with matching numbers. Few can claim that. I have talked to many other customers/friends that wont post on here that have moved on. I will receive hate emails and pm’s. Some of these are friends of the manufacture and others I assume are employees. If I too take the loss and move on, CGC is off the hook since it would be a second owner. Great way out. Only way to sell is huge discount as looks like crap. This is what they prefer one does. No more warranty liability for them. They are the only large manufacture that wont warranty the second owner during the original warranty period. CGC has a reason for that. No one posting has any personal agenda as we all have games only a few months old. I got lucky on GBLE but unlucky here. QC is not there. I want my game to look the way it should and the warranty to be the way it should. I am a pinball customer and I buy new games and share experiences with no agenda. This is a Buyer Alert!

Thanks for posting. I guess now we wait for a response form CGC. There is absolutely zero chance that they don't know about this claim. LTG sees both this thread, and their service tickets, and he has also answered a couple of tech questions in this thread since you posted this. It is not a good sign that their tech support guy ignores this completely as if he doesn't see it.

I would suggest resubmitting your ticket. If they chose to answer your ticket by phone, then inform them that the call is being recorded. If they are not willing to continue the conversation after that, then it is on them to answer in writing. You can't trust anything they would have said in the call anyway.

If you happen to deal with someone in Nevada, you only have to inform them that the call is being recorded. If they will not continue the conversation, then talk to them in person. In Nevada, the laws are more strict over wires. In person conversation only needs the consent of one of the parties. Again, if they are not willing to talk while being recorded, it is not really worth the conversation anyway.

Like I said earlier, I am happy with my machine, but if they are really willing to sell these with exposed wood filler in the shooter lane, then I will not do business with them again. That isn't artistic, that is just being too cheap to throw away a crappy blank.

I am really hoping that this is just a misunderstanding. There are not currently any non cgc games that I want to buy, so I am really hoping this company isn't one that hides behind wire tapping laws to prevent their policies from being talked about publicly.

#3918 1 year ago
Quoted from Lermods:

If you've bought 18 nib games and paid an additional 3.5% on each one, that's quite a bit of insurance to take out. If you figure an average nib is $6k, you've paid almost $4k in cc fees, yet never had to make a claim.
I've bought many nib games too, never had an issue I could not work out. I do feel for those with bad afm playfields, however, and hope it gets resolve amicably. My afm is so nice I was eyeing an mbr, but may hold off now.

I now sit with 38 games (All Stern NIB and HUO) in immaculate condition and never feel remorse over the 4K.

My peace of mind was well worth it. I realize that others may not feel the same and respect that.

#3919 1 year ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

I now sit with 38 games (All Stern NIB and HUO) in immaculate condition and never feel remorse over the 4K.
My peace of mind was well worth it. I realize that others may not feel the same and respect that.

$300 of insurance on an $8000 machine seems pretty reasonable to me....

#3920 1 year ago

So perhaps ignorance is bliss, cause I thought my AFMr LE was perfect...until I read through all these threads and now I'm wondering did I miss something??

Relatively new to pins (longtime vid collector) and the only thing I could tell possibly "wrong" with my machine is the shooter lane ramp thing (which I'm ok to fix myself based on the instructions CGC provided). I've already updated to the 2.0 chip provided as well (no issues prior). Otherwise I've had a blast with it, but perhaps I'm ignorant of other issues, idk.

This all said, is there a comprehensive checklist compiled somewhere so I can go through the rest of my machine to confirm? Thanks!

#3921 1 year ago
Quoted from voltron88x:

So perhaps ignorance is bliss, cause I thought my AFMr LE was perfect...until I read through all these threads and now I'm wondering did I miss something??
Relatively new to pins (longtime vid collector) and the only thing I could tell possibly "wrong" with my machine is the shooter lane ramp thing (which I'm ok to fix myself based on the instructions CGC provided). I've already updated to the 2.0 chip provided as well (no issues prior). Otherwise I've had a blast with it, but perhaps I'm ignorant of other issues, idk.
This all said, is there a comprehensive checklist compiled somewhere so I can go through the rest of my machine to confirm? Thanks!

I think the only issues that have not been resolved are the playfield quality issues. Some of the playfields were screened with a "nude" color where it should be orange (I think mine looks more yellow than orange there, but I will have to look more closely when i get home tonight). There was also a pic of a terrible looking shooter lane (discolored, filled with putty before clearcoat) that was reported as not covered under warranty.

I think that is it as far as unresolved issues. The clearcoat can chip around the holes, which can be stopped by adding Cliffy's to those holes.

#3922 1 year ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

True, but I am guessing most of the folks stuck in the boat with CGC would gladly pay the 3.5% now.

False. You can't assume the CC is going to honor your pushback on such a large purchase. Pinball machines aren't ovens and I'm pretty sure that unless your case was crystal clear, the distributor and company would fight the CC company pretty hard. For example, let's say that you had some clear coat chipping...are you really confident that the return process would be straightforward? I'm not.

In any event, you clearly don't mind spending the extra money for piece of mind. That's cool. My point is CC companies don't always "roll over" easily if the vendor doesn't acknowledge the problem! Since you've never returned a pinball machine, you don't have proof that your 3.5% is money well spent.

snaroff

#3923 1 year ago
Quoted from paynemic:

I’ll chime in. I’ve had a few issues with my LE and Doug has resolved them to my satisfaction. Somebody put a vote on this thread (owners only): “are you satisfied with your purchase overall?”
I’d vote yes so far.

Yes, I'm very happy too, and I imagine that the vast majority are very happy. But I do understand why some aren't, the question to ask is how many of us very happy chappies would be very happy if we encountered some of the colour/playfield issues that a small minority have? Probably not so many and that's why I understand their angst.

#3924 1 year ago
Quoted from jmagla:

Yes, I'm very happy too, and I imagine that the vast majority are very happy. But the question to ask is how many of us very happy chappies would be very happy if we encountered some of the colour/playfield issues that a small minority have?

Bingo. If CGC disclosed that 5% of a PF "run" had the color issue and they were in the process of resolving these issues, case closed. Everyone happy. Shit happens.

Refusing to acknowledge PF issues clearly documented & identified by EXPERIENCED pinball collectors is unacceptable. Inexperienced pinball owners usually don't know what to look for.

snaroff

#3925 1 year ago

Wow, I'm only just 30 billion behind you, some score .

#3926 1 year ago
Quoted from extendo:

LTG
I see a technical question posted on here and I wait with anticipation with a answer from you. Thanks for taking the time and helping us novices, it's people like you that make me enjoy pins even more

Agree 100%

#3927 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Bingo. If CGC disclosed that 5% of a PF "run" had the color issue and they were in the process of resolving these issues, case closed. Everyone happy. Shit happens.
Refusing to acknowledge PF issues clearly documented & identified by EXPERIENCED pinball collectors is unacceptable. Inexperienced pinball owners usually don't know what to look for.
snaroff

I couldn't agree more ..... although in my experience with American Express is if you have pics, and provide proof of damage then they will back you, and not back down to the distributor. My question is where are the distributors in this discussion? Are they washing their hands? they should be front and center on this issue.

#3928 1 year ago
Quoted from Crispin:

Someone in the thread said the ribbed can eventually progress to splitting.

Let's not get too hysterical. I think you'd have to be REALLY negligent and/or in a super arid climate to get to that level. I've had lots of Sterns and a few B/W with planking and zero progressed to splitting, but they were all waxed frequently and kept in a climate-controlled house/location.

#3929 1 year ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

My question is where are the distributors in this discussion? Are they washing their hands? they should be front and center on this issue.

I think There have been a couple that have posted. They did not come out and say it, but they kind of implied it by what they wrote. Everyone has their reason for coming out and posting or not customer or distributer.

#3930 1 year ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

I couldn't agree more ..... although in my experience with American Express is if you have pics, and provide proof of damage then they will back you, and not back down to the distributor. My question is where are the distributors in this discussion? Are they washing their hands? they should be front and center on this issue.

Bingo. Folks with PF issues need to work closely with their distributors. I've purchased many pins from distributors and they rarely need to do anything. They book the business and pocket the money. When small problems occur, I've dealt directly with the manufacturer. When I had my "big" AC/DC PF issue, my distributor (Little Shop of Games) supported me and helped represent me with Stern. When the populated PF was approved by Stern, they swapped it out for me (about a 4 hour job). Simply put, if a distributor isn't actively supporting you, get a new distributor! In general, I've had good luck/experience with distributors...

snaroff

#3931 1 year ago
Quoted from neverahighscore:

I think that is a great idea. If you're close to dealership, get game shipped to them and then have it setup to give it a full inspection before taking it home. I will do this for MBr.

Only way to eliminate the NIB surprise liability. Smart move.

#3932 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Bingo. If CGC disclosed that 5% of a PF "run" had the color issue and they were in the process of resolving these issues, case closed. Everyone happy. Shit happens.
Refusing to acknowledge PF issues clearly documented & identified by EXPERIENCED pinball collectors is unacceptable. Inexperienced pinball owners usually don't know what to look for.
snaroff

Yep! Well stated.

#3933 1 year ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

Glad to hear. Interesting no one is posting that they have had zero issues. I have more new in the box games with zero adjustments and problems than I have had games with issues. Playing perfect right out of the box is high quality control.

I have had zero issues after 500 games.
The game plays as it should and I have no complaints.

#3934 1 year ago

Does anyone have a link to this shooter lane skill shot fix? My search skills are failing me.

#3935 1 year ago

Let's start with the worse case, the putty and black marks on the shooter lane. Can we confirm that a CGC ticket was opened and the conclusion was that it was acceptable for a hand-made product? If this is true, I would like to open a ticket myself using that picture, and confirm that this is the level of quality I risk getting with a MMr or MBr.

#3936 1 year ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

I would like to open a ticket myself using that picture, and confirm that this is the level of quality I risk getting with a MMr or MBr.

That doesn't sound very honest. You could use the picture to argue a point, not open a ticket because it is not an issue with your game.

#3937 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

False. You can't assume the CC is going to honor your pushback on such a large purchase. Pinball machines aren't ovens and I'm pretty sure that unless your case was crystal clear, the distributor and company would fight the CC company pretty hard. For example, let's say that you had some clear coat chipping...are you really confident that the return process would be straightforward? I'm not.
In any event, you clearly don't mind spending the extra money for piece of mind. That's cool. My point is CC companies don't always "roll over" easily if the vendor doesn't acknowledge the problem! Since you've never returned a pinball machine, you don't have proof that your 3.5% is money well spent.
snaroff

I have assumed nothing and never participate in a transaction of over a few hundred dollars based upon assumptions.

I stated previously that I had already spoken with Amex and that they confirmed I would be covered in the event of a chipping playfield, split cabinet or even faulty artwork. I provided my Amex representative the name of the manufacturer, the product name (Attack from Mars Remake) and the name of an authorized dealer who sells the product. The representative told me that I would most likely be required to provide detailed photos in the event of an issue. I confirmed this process each time I purchased a NIB Stern machines as well.

Of course, the distributor will respond to the chargeback, but I will guarantee you that a response to Amex mentioning "artistic character" won't cut it.

I really hope all of this gets worked out for the existing customers and for CGC in the long run.

#3938 1 year ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

I have assumed nothing and never participate in a transaction of over a few hundred dollars based upon assumptions.
I stated previously that I had already spoken with Amex and that they confirmed I would be covered in the event of a chipping playfield, split cabinet or even faulty artwork. I provided my Amex representative the name of the manufacturer, the product name (Attack from Mars Remake) and the name of an authorized dealer who sells the product. The representative told me that I would most likely be required to provide detailed photos in the event of an issue. I confirmed this process each time I purchased a NIB Stern machines as well.
Of course, the distributor will respond to the chargeback, but I will guarantee you that a response to Amex mentioning "artistic character" won't cut it.
I really hope all of this gets worked out for the existing customers and for CGC in the long run.

Well we've both purchased a fair number of games and I've avoided the 3.5% credit/insurance tax and you've never benefitted from it. I understand if it helps you sleep better, but I'm glad we aired the issue since you were advising folks to do something which ultimately results in added cost. No free lunch.

My $.02...the distributor cost/profit should be all the insurance we need when purchasing these high cost items! Let's face it, as previously stated, a very high percentage of transactions are without issue, so expecting the distributor to "do the right thing" is what we should expect as a community. I would imagine most distributors are making 5-10% on each transaction.

If we were all purchasing directly from the manufacturer, I would have more sympathy for your suggestion to use a credit card (even if it costs an extra 3.5%).

snaroff

#3939 1 year ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

That doesn't sound very honest. You could use the picture to argue a point, not open a ticket because it is not an issue with your game.

Now I'm the dishonest one? I never said I would be dishonest or lie, I would open a ticket, and explain to them that I would like to purchase another game from them, and that there is a case on Pinside where a user claims to have receive a severely low quality playfield which was apparently not resolved by CGC. I will ask them to clarify if that is in fact a playfield that they deem ok to ship. If that is the case, I will not feel comfortable getting another, as my interpretation of quality would at that point be different than theirs.

I also think maybe Doug was asking people to stop posting slanderous comments about him and his business... it goes both ways if he feels someone's comments have been misleading or false and resulted in his company losing sales. I've even seen 'mob' comment in here.

-18
#3940 1 year ago

Im reading this thread and seeing that a few people have some cosmetic issues on their games.
They are very vocal and are gaining sympathy from pinsiders in general.

I dont think that the cosmetic issues I have read, affect gameplay at all.

From a players perspective, only issues that affect gameplay are valid. It is a game after all.

Color variations on playfields are as old as pinball itself and can be sorted out in time if need be.

Chipping of clearcoat is to be expected and can be controlled fairly easily by the end user if they want.
Apply full sheet mylar or a makrolon full protector if you want. Its the end users choice as much as whether you wax your car or not.

example: My $12K Seedoo has scratches all over it from only 5 uses. My $200 baseball bat has scratches after only one game etc.

This does not mean that CGC is making an inferior product at all.

Its simpy pinball.
Anything that affects gameplay they immediately respond to, as they should.

Damning a game manufacturer for a relatively small percentage of defects is unfair and misleading.
How they respond to individual cases, on an individual basis, has not proven to be what the majority can expect at all.
All pinball machines have had quirks and poorly engineered parts that had to be remade or re-envisioned down the road.

The aftermarket is filled with these solutions.

JMHO... please go back to beating up CGC for no reason now

I'm a player not an art collector.

#3941 1 year ago

^Those are some really good comparisons.

#3942 1 year ago

Well F**K, I have the nude colors too. I lived in peaceful bliss until this thread ruined that for me. Oh well, I'll still play the F**K out of it.

#3943 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

How they respond to individual cases, on an individual basis, is not what the majority can expect at all

I'm just curious what you mean by this? Would you mind clarifying as I can interpret this a couple different ways. Thanks!

#3944 1 year ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

That doesn't sound very honest. You could use the picture to argue a point, not open a ticket because it is not an issue with your game.

It's to test their reaction.

#3945 1 year ago
Quoted from gliebig:

^Those are some really good comparisons.

Really? Comparing a pinball machine with a Seadoo? and baseball bat? Please...probably the worst comparisons I've ever heard.

For good or bad, MANY pinball owners consider their games "kinetic, playable art". If the PF art weren't considered important, there would be 0 reason to apply clearcoat. The clear is applied to protect the paint/art...hello! Cabinet art is also carefully scrutinized...as it should be. Took years for companies to figure out how to avoid messing up decals with ink that doesn't fade and leg brackets that avoid tearing up the decals. Please.

snaroff

#3946 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Really? Comparing a pinball machine with a Seadoo? and baseball bat? Please...probably the worst comparisons I've ever heard.
For good or bad, MANY pinball owners consider their games "kinetic, playable art". If the PF art weren't considered important, there would be 0 reason to apply clearcoat. The clear is applied to protect the paint/art...hello! Cabinet art is also carefully scrutinized...as it should be. Took years for companies to figure out how to avoid messing up decals with ink that doesn't fade and leg brackets that avoid tearing up the decals. Please.
snaroff

This.

#3947 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Really? Comparing a pinball machine with a Seadoo? and baseball bat? Please...probably the worst comparisons I've ever heard.
For good or bad, MANY pinball owners consider their games "kinetic, playable art". If the PF art weren't considered important, there would be 0 reason to apply clearcoat. The clear is applied to protect the paint/art...hello! Cabinet art is also carefully scrutinized...as it should be. Took years for companies to figure out how to avoid messing up decals with ink that doesn't fade and leg brackets that avoid tearing up the decals. Please.
snaroff

You did not take note of my emoji!!!!!!!!!!!!

15
#3948 1 year ago
Quoted from Nexyss:

LTG sees both this thread, and their service tickets, and he has also answered a couple of tech questions in this thread since you posted this. It is not a good sign that their tech support guy ignores this completely as if he doesn't see it.

I'm not ignoring it.

Some of this isn't my job. I help people get their games going if they have problems. That's it.

Parts sent under warranty, cabinet issues, playfield issues, go through CGC. I have no say in it. So why get involved.

LTG : )

#3949 1 year ago
Quoted from PinLen83:

It's to test their reaction.

OH! OK! sorry Bipatrol !

#3950 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Im reading this thread and seeing that a few people have some cosmetic issues on their games.
They are very vocal and are gaining sympathy from pinsiders in general.
I dont think that the cosmetic issues I have read, affect gameplay at all.
From a players perspective, only issues that affect gameplay are valid. It is a game after all.
Color variations on playfields are as old as pinball itself and can be sorted out in time if need be.
Chipping of clearcoat is to be expected and can be controlled fairly easily by the end user if they want.
Apply full sheet mylar or a makrolon full protector if you want. Its the end users choice as much as whether you wax your car or not.
example: My $12K Seedoo has scratches all over it from only 5 uses. My $200 baseball bat has scratches after only one game etc.
This does not mean that CGC is making an inferior product at all.
Its simpy pinball.
Anything that affects gameplay they immediately respond to, as they should.
Damning a game manufacturer for a relatively small percentage of defects is unfair and misleading.
How they respond to individual cases, on an individual basis, is not what the majority can expect at all.
All pinball machines have had quirks and poorly engineered parts that had to be remade or re-envisioned down the road.
The aftermarket is filled with these solutions.
JMHO... please go back to beating up CGC for no reason now

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