Attack From Mars Remake (AFMr) Owners Club

(Topic ID: 192072)

Attack From Mars Remake (AFMr) Owners Club


By Pin_Guy

1 year ago



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  • Latest reply 2 days ago by pinnyheadhead
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There are 6535 posts in this topic. You are on page 77 of 131.
#3801 1 year ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

My game has none of the playfield issues (any issues really) that some people are having and I consider myself fortunate. It seems like its coming out of the later runs (I've had mine for six months and a ton of plays on it). If I was CGC, I would work to make these right as some people have legitimate gripes (like the off color and prominent wood grain). They need to step back before dismissing the complaints and ask themselves if they would be happy if it was their brand new 8k game? I really doubt they would and if that's the case, action needs to be taken to make it right. The sales of game three depends on it.

I do not think that CGC have dismissed any claims and they are handling them accordingly. I agree, CGCs next release depends on how they handle their complaints and issues.

12
#3802 1 year ago

I don't see anything wrong with sharing your experience (positive or negative) with any pinball company here on Pinside as I've done both over the years. I also think it's important to follow up on your experience should it change because of how a company has decided to handle your personal situation. Owners should not feel threatened or concerned about posting here one way or another.

I look at it this way. If a had something significant (positive or negative) happen to me as a customer I would certainly go out of my way to share that with my friends/family to help them make a sound purchase decision. I consider most of this community an extension of pinball friends and would not hesitate sharing info in the hopes it would influence their decision to purchase (or to not). Share what you think is SIGNIFICANT...what you would want your friends/family to know.

#3804 1 year ago
Quoted from stpcore:

I don't see anything wrong with sharing your experience (positive or negative) with any pinball company here on Pinside as I've done both over the years. I also think it's important to follow up on your experience should it change because of how a company has decided to handle your personal situation. Owners should not feel threatened or concerned about posting here one way or another.
I look at it this way. If a had something significant (positive or negative) happen to me as a customer I would certainly go out of my way to share that with my friends/family to help them make a sound purchase decision. I consider most of this community an extension of pinball friends and would not hesitate sharing info in the hopes it would influence their decision to purchase (or to not). Share what you think is SIGNIFICANT...what you would want your friends/family to know.

Very well said! Totally agree

#3805 1 year ago

Why is the color variation an issue? Is it because it doesn’t match the original? For tspp, there are at least three versions of the playfield with the car on those playfields varying in color from pinkish to different shades of red. Mine is pinkish, which I consider most authentic relative to the show, but in terms of resale, it doesn’t seem to matter.

#3806 1 year ago
Quoted from Lermods:

Why is the color variation an issue? Is it because it doesn’t match the original? For tspp, there are at least three versions of the playfield with the car on those playfields varying in color from pinkish to different shades of red. Mine is pinkish, which I consider most authentic relative to the show, but in terms of resale, it doesn’t seem to matter.

I would say because it isn't even CLOSE to the original, and doesn't match the rest of the playfield color scheme. Nude laser fire isn't a thing, and the giant area between the flippers would be nude and...red? Also, the orange-red design on the plastics would not match the nude-red combination on the messed up playfields because the color scheme and design is on the plastics AND the playfield, and the plastics don't have the wrong color. No. Just...no.

You can see what I mean comparing an inlane plastic with the right color combination to one of the nude playfield mistake color combinations. They don't match.

PF-to-Plastics-Nude-Compare2 (resized).jpg

It's not like CFTBL, where you have normal pink and hot pink - they're both pink variations. Nude has no relationship to orange. It's just wrong. I'd like to see picture of a whole playfield with this screening issue. I'm wondering if they grabbed the flesh tone from the woman by the flippers and just ran it on two layers of screening, forgetting to change the color.

#3807 1 year ago

Does adding color leds under the cabinet add to the game play? If so, which one should I get? I don't wan to void my warranty connecting something that may damage the boards.

#3808 1 year ago
Quoted from Lermods:

Why is the color variation an issue? Is it because it doesn’t match the original? For tspp, there are at least three versions of the playfield with the car on those playfields varying in color from pinkish to different shades of red. Mine is pinkish, which I consider most authentic relative to the show, but in terms of resale, it doesn’t seem to matter.

Because on the one hand CGC excuse themselves from fitting “Cliffy” style ( vireland ) protectors on the lock hole because it would offend the purists, and on the other hand they expect us to excuse the faulty/misprinted playfields as “artistic interpretation”.

Having said that, the pink playfields could be the new rare collectibles.

#3809 1 year ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

Does adding color leds under the cabinet add to the game play? If so, which one should I get? I don't wan to void my warranty connecting something that may damage the boards.

Under cabinet lighting looks cool, but really doesn't add anything to the gameplay.

#3810 1 year ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Because on the one hand CGC excuse themselves from fitting “Cliffy” style ( vireland ) protectors on the lock hole because it would offend the purists.

If they made a deal with Cliff and shipped with actual Cliffies from the factory like JJP is now on Dialed In, I'm sure the accolades would far outweigh any complaints from the purists. It's just an excuse.

#3811 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

If they made a deal with Cliff and shipped with actual Cliffies from the factory like JJP is now on Dialed In, I'm sure the accolades would far outweigh any complaints from the purists. It's just an excuse.

Thats my point. I was just tagging you to show you I'm not using Cliffys name without due credit.

#3812 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

There are not "a lot" of disgruntled customers, that is just what you keep saying.

Con,

I know of disgruntled customers that aren't Pinsiders. The notion that everyone who owns a pinball machine is represented here is flawed. I also know of disgruntled customers that watch Pinside but don't post. Not everyone is as vocal as we are

Only CGC has the "real" disgruntled data. As a result, your claim isn't factual unless you have insider information.

Not trying to say the sky is falling, just that all of us really only know our own experience (with CGC). Everything else is speculation.

Intuitively, if the number of PF issues is *really small*, CGC would be foolish if they didn't take care of folks (since it wouldn't put a big dent in their bottom line). They are a fairly new company and their quality and approach to service is likely a work in progress.

snaroff

26
#3813 1 year ago

So here is the full version that was requested as it was a busy holiday weekend.

I put in my ticket on the CGC online system. I received an email and call promptly the next day, I returned the call the following day. The call was from “Doug” as he is referred to on this thread. He started the call off asking about where I live etc. His children live here and he went to College around here etc. Asked about my business’s etc. We then began the topic on the AFMr and the issues regarding the playfield. He said they would immediately send out the plastics and they use the same manufacture many others are using and not sure why they are having the issues. He said that the playfield manufacturing is mostly by hand. Only the routing is automated. It was stated they purchase their wood from a “secret source.” It is cedar and ash. I asked which the ball surface was. He stated that cedar was the playfield surface but said he may have that backwards. Since it is a handmade product no two are alike. I mentioned the color issues and was told that this was “artistic character” and was to be expected on a handmade product. They view this as completely acceptable. He said in their view they build the world’s finest pinball machines. They use a 13 layer screen process where Stern only uses a 5 layer process. Other playfield manufactures use a more automated process which they believe is inferior. I mention the wrong screen colors and again was told that is up to the “artist.” He said the inserts are also hand installed and also will be “unique” between play fields. I asked about the planking and he said it is not planking but was in the surface prior to screening from not being “a fully prepared surface” and that it would not get any worse. This is expected when you are dealing with a handmade natural product. I stated that it is getting worse. He disagreed. I also stated that I own many pinball machines and many of the recent pinball playfields were made in his shop and they aren’t doing this or look like that. I also stated my MMr LE does not look like this. I also stated I can’t find a AFMr in Colorado that is not doing this. Even the one at the local dealer looks like this. He stated that they have only received a few complaints and these artistic characteristics are to be expected and acceptable. He also stated that the Warranty is at CGC’s sole discretion and is only 12 months on the LE playfield which he was willing to extend to 5 years. (Medieval Madness 12 month’s electronic/6 months other, AFM CE, 6/3, AFM SE 12/6 and the AFM LE 24/12) He did agree to send me the diffusers that I could never get from my dealer on my MMR and that I could not get CGC to send directly to me in the past. At this point he went into pinside and the things people are posting on there. He said he has a few employees and friends on there. He said all these things are completely normal and people need to stop posting. At that point I told him I was a poster and had posted things on there. He said people need to understand we make the best pinball machines and this is not like manufactures issues. He said that I need to stop posting. I changed the subject and asked if they were going to send me an email in writing on what we chatted about. He said it will be in the ticket. At this point he brought up the posting again and began pressing that they do not want people posting issues. I finally had enough and politly said thank you for his time and I am looking forward to the parts.

After I hung up I felt like I was just bullied and smoothed talk to believe and accept what they are telling me. I immediately notified my dealer that I was uncomfortable with the solution.

Fact #1 The warranty is 100% discretionary by CGC and the customer has no recourse.

Fact#2 The CGC system is great for small items but large items are phone calls with no documentation. One can’t record a phone conversation with a person in Illinois or PPS in Nevada as you need all parties to consent to the recording. Many have recorded them but can’t publicly display them.

Fact#3 The product comes in a box. One can’t inspect a game until it is opened at that point one owns it and it is under the full discretion of CGC if they deem it is “defects in material or workmanship”

Fact#4 When I bought this game the sales sheet did not disclose that this was a handmade product and it would be different than pictured. It did not disclose that playfield chipping may occur, grainy lines and planking are acceptable, putty maybe in the shooter lane and colors will not match. When I buy a “remake” I assume it is going to look like the original that it was re manufactured from. This includes the correct playfield surface and colors. Chipping is not acceptable in my other games and should not be accepted here. If the above disclosure was made most of us would not purchase the product.

Fact#5 The sales sheet did not disclose that only the original purchaser is covered by the warranty and that "CGC, at its sole discretion, will be liable to repair or replace components which are returned to CGC during the warranty period. CGC will repair or replace any covered part at no charge, exclusive of shipping and handling charges or any labor to install the part. Unless instructed otherwise, all defective parts be properly packaged and returned to CGC freight prepaid…No one is authorized to make modifications to this limited warranty."

CGC or “Doug” will not fix these items immediately once someone opens a ticket as many believe. They do this only on small items. The customer is just talked to with a silver tongue. CGC is illustrating to consumers chipping, wrong colors, insert ghosting, planking, poorly prepped surfaces, and putty are all acceptable. They can increase the warranty 20 years if none of these issues are covered. Everyday for the next 4 ½ years I get to look at playfeild that looks like crap is the bottom line. If CGC is not going to Warranty their products on major issues then I will warn suspecting new buyers. We all are doing that. I wish mine looked like some of yours. I have had a few friends just sell their games and take the loss. It is the luck of the draw and you will never know what yours looks like until you open it. If new major issues emerge lots of luck.

I currently own 27 pinball machines which I believe are the top games and ones I enjoy. I also bought and sold around 75 games to find the games I like and ones that are in better shape with great mods. I am not a new person to pinball. I have bought games from every major manufacture and have never seen such a disregard for the customer. Don’t tell me you are the best but show me. No one would be posting on here if that was the case. I bought both the MMr LE and the AFMr LE from CGC with matching numbers. Few can claim that. I have talked to many other customers/friends that wont post on here that have moved on. I will receive hate emails and pm’s. Some of these are friends of the manufacture and others I assume are employees. If I too take the loss and move on, CGC is off the hook since it would be a second owner. Great way out. Only way to sell is huge discount as looks like crap. This is what they prefer one does. No more warranty liability for them. They are the only large manufacture that wont warranty the second owner during the original warranty period. CGC has a reason for that. No one posting has any personal agenda as we all have games only a few months old. I got lucky on GBLE but unlucky here. QC is not there. I want my game to look the way it should and the warranty to be the way it should. I am a pinball customer and I buy new games and share experiences with no agenda. This is a Buyer Alert!

#3814 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Con,
I know of disgruntled customers that aren't Pinsiders. The notion that everyone who owns a pinball machine is represented here is flawed. I also know of disgruntled customers that watch Pinside but don't post. Not everyone is as vocal as we are
Only CGC has the "real" disgruntled data. As a result, your claim isn't factual unless you have insider information.
Not trying to say the sky is falling, just that all of us really only know our own experience (with CGC). Everything else is speculation.
Intuitively, if the number of PF issues is *really small*, CGC would be foolish if they didn't take care of folks (since it wouldn't put a big dent in their bottom line). They are a fairly new company and their quality and approach to service is likely a work in progress.
snaroff

I agree if it was small just fix them. It is not small. It is the great cover up like on Ghost Buster LE. Issue here is it is the same manufacture. We blamed stern for that instead of the playfeild manufacture Churchill/CGC. Read the article I posted. https://www.pinballnews.com/site/2016/11/04/churchill-cabinet-company-tour/ Why does it say they were trying different clear coat mixes for ghost busters if everything is great. That article was not done at a good time for them as it turns out.

#3815 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Con,
I know of disgruntled customers that aren't Pinsiders. The notion that everyone who owns a pinball machine is represented here is flawed. I also know of disgruntled customers that watch Pinside but don't post. Not everyone is as vocal as we are
Only CGC has the "real" disgruntled data. As a result, your claim isn't factual unless you have insider information.
Not trying to say the sky is falling, just that all of us really only know our own experience (with CGC). Everything else is speculation.
Intuitively, if the number of PF issues is *really small*, CGC would be foolish if they didn't take care of folks (since it wouldn't put a big dent in their bottom line). They are a fairly new company and their quality and approach to service is likely a work in progress.
snaroff

Hey Snaroff,

I totally agree with you and I am not questioning you. I respect your comments and I know you are genuine. I know that you had a few genuine issues and your outcome. I thank you for your honesty, it helped me a lot.

I too am also am hoping that CGC do resolve all their issues big and small and keep their customer base happy.

#3816 1 year ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

So here is the full version that was requested as it was a busy holiday weekend.
I put in my ticket on the CGC online system. I received an email and call promptly the next day, I returned the call the following day. The call was from “Doug” as he is referred to on this thread. He started the call off asking about where I live etc. His children live here and he went to College around here etc. Asked about my business’s etc. We then began the topic on the AFMr and the issues regarding the playfield. He said they would immediately send out the plastics and they use the same manufacture many others are using and not sure why they are having the issues. He said that the playfield manufacturing is mostly by hand. Only the routing is automated. It was stated they purchase their wood from a “secret source.” It is cedar and ash. I asked which the ball surface was. He stated that cedar was the playfield surface but said he may have that backwards. Since it is a handmade product no two are alike. I mentioned the color issues and was told that this was “artistic character” and was to be expected on a handmade product. They view this as completely acceptable. He said in their view they build the world’s finest pinball machines. They use a 13 layer screen process where Stern only uses a 5 layer process. Other playfield manufactures use a more automated process which they believe is inferior. I mention the wrong screen colors and again was told that is up to the “artist.” He said the inserts are also hand installed and also will be “unique” between play fields. I asked about the planking and he said it is not planking but was in the surface prior to screening from not being “a fully prepared surface” and that it would not get any worse. This is expected when you are dealing with a handmade natural product. I stated that it is getting worse. He disagreed. I also stated that I own many pinball machines and many of the recent pinball playfields were made in his shop and they aren’t doing this or look like that. I also stated my MMr LE does not look like this. I also stated I can’t find a AFMr in Colorado that is not doing this. Even the one at the local dealer looks like this. He stated that they have only received a few complaints and these artistic characteristics are to be expected and acceptable. He also stated that the Warranty is at CGC’s sole discretion and is only 12 months on the LE playfield which he was willing to extend to 5 years. (Medieval Madness 12 month’s electronic/6 months other, AFM CE, 6/3, AFM SE 12/6 and the AFM LE 24/12) He did agree to send me the diffusers that I could never get from my dealer on my MMR and that I could not get CGC to send directly to me in the past. At this point he went into pinside and the things people are posting on there. He said he has a few employees and friends on there. He said all these things are completely normal and people need to stop posting. At that point I told him I was a poster and had posted things on there. He said people need to understand we make the best pinball machines and this is not like manufactures issues. He said that I need to stop posting. I changed the subject and asked if they were going to send me an email in writing on what we chatted about. He said it will be in the ticket. At this point he brought up the posting again and began pressing that they do not want people posting issues. I finally had enough and politly said thank you for his time and I am looking forward to the parts.
After I hung up I felt like I was just bullied and smoothed talk to believe and accept what they are telling me. I immediately notified my dealer that I was uncomfortable with the solution.
Fact #1 The warranty is 100% discretionary by CGC and the customer his no recourse.
Fact#2 The CGC system is great for small items but large items are phone calls with no documentation. One can’t record a phone conversation with a person in Illinois or PPS in Nevada as you need all parties to consent to the recording. Many have recorded them but can’t publicly display them.
Fact#3 The product comes in a box. One can’t inspect a game until it is opened at that point one owns it and it is under the full discretion of CGC if they deem it is “defects in material or workmanship”
Fact#4 When I bought this game the sales sheet did not disclose that this was a handmade product and it would be different than pictured. It did not disclose that playfield chipping may occur, grainy lines and planking are acceptable, putty maybe in the shooter lane and colors will not match. When I buy a “remake” I assume it is going to look like the original that it was re manufactured from. This includes the correct playfield surface and colors. Chipping is not acceptable in my other games and should not be accepted here. If the above disclosure was made most of us would not purchase the product.
Fact#5 The sales sheet did not disclose that only the original purchaser is covered by the warranty and that CGC, at its sole discretion, will be liable to repair or replace components which are returned to CGC during the warranty period. CGC will repair or replace any covered part at no charge, exclusive of shipping and handling charges or any labor to install the part. Unless instructed otherwise, all defective parts be properly packaged and returned to CGC freight prepaid…No one is authorized to make modifications to this limited warranty.
CGC or “Doug” will not fix these items immediately once someone opens a ticket as many believe. They do this only on small items. CGC is illustrating to consumers chipping, wrong colors, insert ghosting, planking, poorly prepped surfaces, and putty are all acceptable. They can increase the warranty 20 years if none of these issues are covered. Everyday for the next 4 ½ years I get to look at playfeild that looks like crap is the bottom line. If CGC is not going to Warranty their products on major issues then I will warn suspecting new buyers. We all are doing that. I wish mine looked like some of yours. I have had a few friends just sell their games and take the loss. It is the luck of the draw and you will never know what yours looks like until you open it. If new major issues emerge looks of luck.
I currently own 27 pinball machines which I believe are the top games and ones I enjoy. I also bought and sold around 75 games to find the games I like and ones that are in better shape with great mods. I am not a new person to pinball. I have bought games from every manufacture and have never seen such a disregard for the customer. Don’t tell me you are the best but show me. No one would be posting on here if that was the case. I bought both the MMr LE and the AFMr LE from CGC with matching numbers. Few can claim that. I have talked to many other customers/friends that wont post on here that have moved on. I will receive hate emails and pm. Some of these are friends of the manufacture and others I assume are employees. If I too take the loss and move on CGC is off the hook since it would be second owner. This is what they prefer one does. No more warranty liability for them. No one posting has any personal agenda as we all have games only a few months old. I got lucky on GBLE but unlucky here. QC is not there. I want my game to look the way it should and the warranty to be the way it should. I am a pinball customer and I buy new games and share experiences with no agenda.

Thank you very much for taking the time write and post your experience. That is really not good from CGC and I would definitely not be happy with that. If I was your distro I would be doing my best to get you a good resolution. Good luck!

#3817 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

Thank you very much for taking the time write and post your experience. That is really not good from CGC and I would definitely not be happy with that. If I was your distro I would be doing my best to get you a good resolution. Good luck!

I'm not clear on the part where he told you not to post anything. How exactly did he say it? It seems short on details for that part... and it would be foolish of him to ask someone not to post on the Internet, it's a free country, and he has no authority to ask that, so not sure how he was wording it... was it more like "I wish people would stop posting on pinside before opening a ticket and calling us?" or did he ask you not to post anything negative about them?

Looking at it from CGC's side, the colors are hand mixed, and screen printed. It's not an exact science and at what point is the orange too pink, and when do they decide it's close enough and not replace it? I think the LEs should come with a high resolution image so potential buyers can inspect the playfield. Also, they may have a point on the wood imperfections showing on a hand made playfield... I"m not saying I would want that for myself, from now on, I would NOT buy a NIB without seeing the playfield first.

13
#3818 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

If I was your distro I would be doing my best to get you a good resolution.

And that's the difference usually between a good and bad experience.

I found a similar experience to onwallst when dealing directly with CGC. In my case it was a cabinet issue, but it seems that anything to do with playfields and cabinets CGC act a little defensively. "We are the best cabinet and playfield maker, therefore there cant possibly be a problem". To which my response was "I appreciate that, but I have a problem. Just because you are the best, doesn't mean there is not a problem".

Fortunately my dealer stepped up and helped me out, and full credit to him for doing so. But the one thing I learnt is I wont be buying another NIB game without first opening and inspecting at the point of sale. OR ill buy 2nd hand.

The CGC response that "We are the best cabinet and playfield maker, therefore there cant possibly be a problem and we wont address it" is completely disingenuous. If you truly are the best, then you stand by your product and correct it immediately. That's how you prove you're the best. You don't try and bluff your way out of it. You say "We are the best and this is not up to our standards. We hold ourselves to these standards because we are the best."

Plus, they are the manufacturer of the playfield and cabinet. The cost of them addressing the issue is substantially less than other manufacturers.

It cant be worth the backlash and unhappy customers. Don't look at what each replacement costs relative to one game - look at what it costs to address the issues relative to the entire value of your business. It costs nothing and the benefits of gaining an incredibly loyal and happy customer base are priceless.

#3819 1 year ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

So here is the full version that was requested as it was a busy holiday weekend.
I put in my ticket on the CGC online system. I received an email and call promptly the next day, I returned the call the following day. The call was from “Doug” as he is referred to on this thread. He started the call off asking about where I live etc. His children live here and he went to College around here etc. Asked about my business’s etc. We then began the topic on the AFMr and the issues regarding the playfield. He said they would immediately send out the plastics and they use the same manufacture many others are using and not sure why they are having the issues. He said that the playfield manufacturing is mostly by hand. Only the routing is automated. It was stated they purchase their wood from a “secret source.” It is cedar and ash. I asked which the ball surface was. He stated that cedar was the playfield surface but said he may have that backwards. Since it is a handmade product no two are alike. I mentioned the color issues and was told that this was “artistic character” and was to be expected on a handmade product. They view this as completely acceptable. He said in their view they build the world’s finest pinball machines. They use a 13 layer screen process where Stern only uses a 5 layer process. Other playfield manufactures use a more automated process which they believe is inferior. I mention the wrong screen colors and again was told that is up to the “artist.” He said the inserts are also hand installed and also will be “unique” between play fields. I asked about the planking and he said it is not planking but was in the surface prior to screening from not being “a fully prepared surface” and that it would not get any worse. This is expected when you are dealing with a handmade natural product. I stated that it is getting worse. He disagreed. I also stated that I own many pinball machines and many of the recent pinball playfields were made in his shop and they aren’t doing this or look like that. I also stated my MMr LE does not look like this. I also stated I can’t find a AFMr in Colorado that is not doing this. Even the one at the local dealer looks like this. He stated that they have only received a few complaints and these artistic characteristics are to be expected and acceptable. He also stated that the Warranty is at CGC’s sole discretion and is only 12 months on the LE playfield which he was willing to extend to 5 years. (Medieval Madness 12 month’s electronic/6 months other, AFM CE, 6/3, AFM SE 12/6 and the AFM LE 24/12) He did agree to send me the diffusers that I could never get from my dealer on my MMR and that I could not get CGC to send directly to me in the past. At this point he went into pinside and the things people are posting on there. He said he has a few employees and friends on there. He said all these things are completely normal and people need to stop posting. At that point I told him I was a poster and had posted things on there. He said people need to understand we make the best pinball machines and this is not like manufactures issues. He said that I need to stop posting. I changed the subject and asked if they were going to send me an email in writing on what we chatted about. He said it will be in the ticket. At this point he brought up the posting again and began pressing that they do not want people posting issues. I finally had enough and politly said thank you for his time and I am looking forward to the parts.
After I hung up I felt like I was just bullied and smoothed talk to believe and accept what they are telling me. I immediately notified my dealer that I was uncomfortable with the solution.
Fact #1 The warranty is 100% discretionary by CGC and the customer has no recourse.
Fact#2 The CGC system is great for small items but large items are phone calls with no documentation. One can’t record a phone conversation with a person in Illinois or PPS in Nevada as you need all parties to consent to the recording. Many have recorded them but can’t publicly display them.
Fact#3 The product comes in a box. One can’t inspect a game until it is opened at that point one owns it and it is under the full discretion of CGC if they deem it is “defects in material or workmanship”
Fact#4 When I bought this game the sales sheet did not disclose that this was a handmade product and it would be different than pictured. It did not disclose that playfield chipping may occur, grainy lines and planking are acceptable, putty maybe in the shooter lane and colors will not match. When I buy a “remake” I assume it is going to look like the original that it was re manufactured from. This includes the correct playfield surface and colors. Chipping is not acceptable in my other games and should not be accepted here. If the above disclosure was made most of us would not purchase the product.
Fact#5 The sales sheet did not disclose that only the original purchaser is covered by the warranty and that "CGC, at its sole discretion, will be liable to repair or replace components which are returned to CGC during the warranty period. CGC will repair or replace any covered part at no charge, exclusive of shipping and handling charges or any labor to install the part. Unless instructed otherwise, all defective parts be properly packaged and returned to CGC freight prepaid…No one is authorized to make modifications to this limited warranty."
CGC or “Doug” will not fix these items immediately once someone opens a ticket as many believe. They do this only on small items. CGC is illustrating to consumers chipping, wrong colors, insert ghosting, planking, poorly prepped surfaces, and putty are all acceptable. They can increase the warranty 20 years if none of these issues are covered. Everyday for the next 4 ½ years I get to look at playfeild that looks like crap is the bottom line. If CGC is not going to Warranty their products on major issues then I will warn suspecting new buyers. We all are doing that. I wish mine looked like some of yours. I have had a few friends just sell their games and take the loss. It is the luck of the draw and you will never know what yours looks like until you open it. If new major issues emerge lots of luck.
I currently own 27 pinball machines which I believe are the top games and ones I enjoy. I also bought and sold around 75 games to find the games I like and ones that are in better shape with great mods. I am not a new person to pinball. I have bought games from every major manufacture and have never seen such a disregard for the customer. Don’t tell me you are the best but show me. No one would be posting on here if that was the case. I bought both the MMr LE and the AFMr LE from CGC with matching numbers. Few can claim that. I have talked to many other customers/friends that wont post on here that have moved on. I will receive hate emails and pm. Some of these are friends of the manufacture and others I assume are employees. If I too take the loss and move on CGC is off the hook since it would be second owner. This is what they prefer one does. No more warranty liability for them. No one posting has any personal agenda as we all have games only a few months old. I got lucky on GBLE but unlucky here. QC is not there. I want my game to look the way it should and the warranty to be the way it should. I am a pinball customer and I buy new games and share experiences with no agenda. This is a Buyer Alert!

Your experience sounds much like mine, though I feel your playfield issues are worse. I spoke with Doug today, and he also offered me the 5 year warranty. I told him a verbal warranty doesn't hold much weight, and I'd like to see something in writing that would breakdown the terms. A warranty that does actually offer anything to the customer, isn't worth the paper it's on (though at this point, it's not even on paper).

I told him I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt, and wanted to be a longterm collector of their games. He said there have only been 6 tickets opened up regarding pf issues, which means he either not telling the truth, or more people need to post their issues there, and not just here on Pinside.

This experience has made JJP looks so damn good, and have really left a bad taste in my mouth with CGC. We'll see what they come up with, but I highly doubt they're going to do what Stern or JJP would do, which is to get replacements out to people with truly defective pfs.

Doug said that the chipping issue will affect all games. These are his words. But for it to happen in less than 100 games, is not acceptable. I have chipping on every edge of my MMR, and you can check the dedicated thread, and see I never once made a complaint. Because it happened after over 1000 plays, and at that point, I just put on Cliffys and figured I'd learn from it.

I think CGC has a lot of people waiting to see how they resolve this, before they spend any more money with them. I am one of them. And I am hoping they do something for us that makes me want to be a fan again.

#3820 1 year ago
Quoted from cooked71:

It cant be worth the backlash and unhappy customers. Don't look at what each replacement costs relative to one game - look at what it costs to address the issues relative to the entire value of your business. It costs nothing and the benefits of gaining an incredibly loyal and happy customer base are priceless.

Well said. And hopefully they take this advice. I had the money for MBR sitting in my account, and was going to call my dealer the day of the unveiling. But now the money will sit in the bank, until I see what CGC does with all of the unsatisfied customers in this thread.

I'll stress it again... I have a MMR with lots of chipping, and never even opened a ticket. But the state of my AFMR after about 90 games is totally unacceptable.

I'm tried of complaining. I want CGC to do right by us, and let's move on.

#3821 1 year ago
Quoted from Damien:

Your experience sounds much like mine, though I feel your playfield issues are worse. I spoke with Doug today, and he also offered me the 5 year warranty. I told him a verbal warranty doesn't hold much weight, and I'd like to see something in writing that would breakdown the terms. A warranty that does actually offer anything to the customer, isn't worth the paper it's on (though at this point, it's not even on paper).
I told him I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt, and wanted to be a longterm collector of their games. He said there have only been 6 tickets opened up regarding pf issues, which means he either not telling the truth, or more people need to post their issues there, and not just here on Pinside.
This experience has made JJP looks so damn good, and have really left a bad taste in my mouth with CGC. We'll see what they come up with, but I highly doubt they're going to do what Stern or JJP would do, which is to get replacements out to people with truly defective pfs.
Doug said that the chipping issue will affect all games. These are his words. But for it to happen in less than 100 games, is not acceptable. I have chipping on every edge of my MMR, and you can check the dedicated thread, and see I never once made a complaint. Because it happened after over 1000 plays, and at that point, I just put on Cliffys and figured I'd learn from it.
I think CGC has a lot of people waiting to see how they resolve this, before they spend any more money with them. I am one of them. And I am hoping they do something for us that makes me want to be a fan again.

They maybe focused on possibly releasing their third game next month. Could be priced at $8300 including chipping, I mean shipping, and $900 for playfeild warranty. (They send you a backup playfeild) for a total of $9200.

#3822 1 year ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

Looking at it from CGC's side, the colors are hand mixed, and screen printed. It's not an exact science and at what point is the orange too pink, and when do they decide it's close enough and not replace it?

I could buy this if the colors were *close*, but they're not. It's the flat out wrong color, period. I was thinking maybe they just forgot to change the flesh color on the girl when they changed the screens, running the same color twice. It's why I'd like to see a "nude" playfield picture of the area by the flippers since it has the girl and the "nude" mistake color in close proximity.

#3823 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

I would say because it isn't even CLOSE to the original, and doesn't match the rest of the playfield color scheme. Nude laser fire isn't a thing, and the giant area between the flippers would be nude and...red? Also, the orange-red design on the plastics would not match the nude-red combination on the messed up playfields because the color scheme and design is on the plastics AND the playfield, and the plastics don't have the wrong color. No. Just...no.
You can see what I mean comparing an inlane plastic with the right color combination to one of the nude playfield mistake color combinations. They don't match.

It's not like CFTBL, where you have normal pink and hot pink - they're both pink variations. Nude has no relationship to orange. It's just wrong. I'd like to see picture of a whole playfield with this screening issue. I'm wondering if they grabbed the flesh tone from the woman by the flippers and just ran it on two layers of screening, forgetting to change the color.

This is best color guide. http://www.hsapinball.com/HSA_PINBALL/hsa69afmcompare.html Every AFM original I owned and were all the same colors on the playfeild. The cabinets faded on many. Also CFTBL had three different playfeild manufactures see my previous post on it on this thread.

#3824 1 year ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

This is best color guide. http://www.hsapinball.com/HSA_PINBALL/hsa69afmcompare.html Every AFM original I owned they were all the same colors on the playfeild. The cabinets faded on many.

#3825 1 year ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

I am a pinball customer and I buy new games and share experiences with no agenda.

Thank you for posting this! It takes some guts to post something like this on here. I can't imagine who would PM hate messages to you....
Unbelievable!

#3826 1 year ago

I have a MMr LE and AFMr LE with matching serial numbers. Both of my machines are flawless. Bring on MBr!

#3827 1 year ago

Just for documentation. I recently received and setup my AFM LE (#21).

Out of box it had the following issues:

* Bolts for left flippers were rattling around loose in the table (below the playfield). Had to put back in and tighten with an allen wrench.
* Left Popper only worked half the time. Had to bend the bracket to "align" it properly. Now works 100% of the time. The bracket is pretty soft and didn't need much pressure to bend about a quarter inch.
* Yellow handle is hard as piss to lock. I still need to figure out how to adjust it.
* Main Saucer is badly scarred from where it was cut from the mold.
* Scorecard art was slightly scratched

So far Game Room Guys (the place I bought it from) has been awesome and helped me sort out the hardware issues.

I just created a ticket open with CGC for the cosmetic items, I don't expect to encounter any problems there.

I feel pretty lucky that my number was so low but the colors and playfield art all seem good to me.

Can anyone show me in a series of pictures or (preferably a video) what the hell I am supposed to do with the locking arm when the table is up? I'm probably missing something obvious but I read the manual and stared at the open table for 20 minutes last night and just could not figure it out.

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#3828 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

If they made a deal with Cliff and shipped with actual Cliffies from the factory like JJP is now on Dialed In, I'm sure the accolades would far outweigh any complaints from the purists. It's just an excuse.

I couldn't agree more with this issue. If one is true "purist" they can remove the protectors, which I highly suspect would be a very small percentage of people. The fact is the manufacturers are cheap and don't want to add $50 to their BOM....

#3829 1 year ago

Never use that locking arm! It will twist/torque the playfield. Full service position is the way to go.

That prop rod is what shipped with the original game, you can just leave it be.

#3830 1 year ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

So here is the full version that was requested as it was a busy holiday weekend.
I put in my ticket on the CGC online system. I received an email and call promptly the next day, I returned the call the following day. The call was from “Doug” as he is referred to on this thread. He started the call off asking about where I live etc. His children live here and he went to College around here etc. Asked about my business’s etc. We then began the topic on the AFMr and the issues regarding the playfield. He said they would immediately send out the plastics and they use the same manufacture many others are using and not sure why they are having the issues. He said that the playfield manufacturing is mostly by hand. Only the routing is automated. It was stated they purchase their wood from a “secret source.” It is cedar and ash. I asked which the ball surface was. He stated that cedar was the playfield surface but said he may have that backwards. Since it is a handmade product no two are alike. I mentioned the color issues and was told that this was “artistic character” and was to be expected on a handmade product. They view this as completely acceptable. He said in their view they build the world’s finest pinball machines. They use a 13 layer screen process where Stern only uses a 5 layer process. Other playfield manufactures use a more automated process which they believe is inferior. I mention the wrong screen colors and again was told that is up to the “artist.” He said the inserts are also hand installed and also will be “unique” between play fields. I asked about the planking and he said it is not planking but was in the surface prior to screening from not being “a fully prepared surface” and that it would not get any worse. This is expected when you are dealing with a handmade natural product. I stated that it is getting worse. He disagreed. I also stated that I own many pinball machines and many of the recent pinball playfields were made in his shop and they aren’t doing this or look like that. I also stated my MMr LE does not look like this. I also stated I can’t find a AFMr in Colorado that is not doing this. Even the one at the local dealer looks like this. He stated that they have only received a few complaints and these artistic characteristics are to be expected and acceptable. He also stated that the Warranty is at CGC’s sole discretion and is only 12 months on the LE playfield which he was willing to extend to 5 years. (Medieval Madness 12 month’s electronic/6 months other, AFM CE, 6/3, AFM SE 12/6 and the AFM LE 24/12) He did agree to send me the diffusers that I could never get from my dealer on my MMR and that I could not get CGC to send directly to me in the past. At this point he went into pinside and the things people are posting on there. He said he has a few employees and friends on there. He said all these things are completely normal and people need to stop posting. At that point I told him I was a poster and had posted things on there. He said people need to understand we make the best pinball machines and this is not like manufactures issues. He said that I need to stop posting. I changed the subject and asked if they were going to send me an email in writing on what we chatted about. He said it will be in the ticket. At this point he brought up the posting again and began pressing that they do not want people posting issues. I finally had enough and politly said thank you for his time and I am looking forward to the parts.
After I hung up I felt like I was just bullied and smoothed talk to believe and accept what they are telling me. I immediately notified my dealer that I was uncomfortable with the solution.
Fact #1 The warranty is 100% discretionary by CGC and the customer has no recourse.
Fact#2 The CGC system is great for small items but large items are phone calls with no documentation. One can’t record a phone conversation with a person in Illinois or PPS in Nevada as you need all parties to consent to the recording. Many have recorded them but can’t publicly display them.
Fact#3 The product comes in a box. One can’t inspect a game until it is opened at that point one owns it and it is under the full discretion of CGC if they deem it is “defects in material or workmanship”
Fact#4 When I bought this game the sales sheet did not disclose that this was a handmade product and it would be different than pictured. It did not disclose that playfield chipping may occur, grainy lines and planking are acceptable, putty maybe in the shooter lane and colors will not match. When I buy a “remake” I assume it is going to look like the original that it was re manufactured from. This includes the correct playfield surface and colors. Chipping is not acceptable in my other games and should not be accepted here. If the above disclosure was made most of us would not purchase the product.
Fact#5 The sales sheet did not disclose that only the original purchaser is covered by the warranty and that "CGC, at its sole discretion, will be liable to repair or replace components which are returned to CGC during the warranty period. CGC will repair or replace any covered part at no charge, exclusive of shipping and handling charges or any labor to install the part. Unless instructed otherwise, all defective parts be properly packaged and returned to CGC freight prepaid…No one is authorized to make modifications to this limited warranty."
CGC or “Doug” will not fix these items immediately once someone opens a ticket as many believe. They do this only on small items. The customer is just talked to with a silver tongue. CGC is illustrating to consumers chipping, wrong colors, insert ghosting, planking, poorly prepped surfaces, and putty are all acceptable. They can increase the warranty 20 years if none of these issues are covered. Everyday for the next 4 ½ years I get to look at playfeild that looks like crap is the bottom line. If CGC is not going to Warranty their products on major issues then I will warn suspecting new buyers. We all are doing that. I wish mine looked like some of yours. I have had a few friends just sell their games and take the loss. It is the luck of the draw and you will never know what yours looks like until you open it. If new major issues emerge lots of luck.
I currently own 27 pinball machines which I believe are the top games and ones I enjoy. I also bought and sold around 75 games to find the games I like and ones that are in better shape with great mods. I am not a new person to pinball. I have bought games from every major manufacture and have never seen such a disregard for the customer. Don’t tell me you are the best but show me. No one would be posting on here if that was the case. I bought both the MMr LE and the AFMr LE from CGC with matching numbers. Few can claim that. I have talked to many other customers/friends that wont post on here that have moved on. I will receive hate emails and pm’s. Some of these are friends of the manufacture and others I assume are employees. If I too take the loss and move on, CGC is off the hook since it would be a second owner. Great way out. Only way to sell is huge discount as looks like crap. This is what they prefer one does. No more warranty liability for them. They are the only large manufacture that wont warranty the second owner during the original warranty period. CGC has a reason for that. No one posting has any personal agenda as we all have games only a few months old. I got lucky on GBLE but unlucky here. QC is not there. I want my game to look the way it should and the warranty to be the way it should. I am a pinball customer and I buy new games and share experiences with no agenda. This is a Buyer Alert!

I'm only stating the obvious, but CGC and Douggie really look like shit here.

#3831 1 year ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

I'm only stating the obvious, but CGC and Douggie really look like shit here.

It scares me away thats for sure and i was considering a MMR really hard.

#3832 1 year ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

It scares me away thats for sure and i was considering a MMR really hard.

It's depressing.

#3833 1 year ago

I've purchased both remakes, and have been generally satisfied....that being said there is zero chance I'll buy another until they resolve their issues. My biggest complaint is their BS warranty, and CGC response on my damaged cabinet (it was very minor)...basically told me to glue it and there was nothing they could do...at some point their gonna piss off the wrong person, and they'll file a lawsuit....

#3834 1 year ago

I think this thread is being run by a few negative nancy’s and isn’t reflective of the overall condition of the machines being delivered.

#3835 1 year ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

I think this thread is being run by a few negative nancy’s and isn’t reflective of the overall condition of the machines being delivered.

I'm starting to realize it's not as bad as it may seem in here, not that there are not issues, but why is the top 100 dominated by CGC? I'm happy with mine too, just looking for a perfect pinball It asked me for my initials for the first time today and played a special song at the end for me. I got $6,800,000,000 or something... what do all you nancies have to say about trying to top THAT score!

#3836 1 year ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

I think this thread is being run by a few negative nancy’s and isn’t reflective of the overall condition of the machines being delivered.

How can we know that if people that open tickets are being actively discouraged from posting their problems to keep issues on the down low? I sincerely doubt they only ran one or two playfields with the nude color mistake. There are probably dozens if not more out there.

#3837 1 year ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

I think this thread is being run by a few negative nancy’s and isn’t reflective of the overall condition of the machines being delivered

I think you need to play pinball and stay out of it.

#3838 1 year ago

Wonder who did the clear coat on this?


#3839 1 year ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

I think this thread is being run by a few negative nancy’s and isn’t reflective of the overall condition of the machines being delivered.

According to Doug, EVERY game will have chipping issues if Cliffys are not installed. That's directly from the horse's mouth.

#3840 1 year ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

I think this thread is being run by a few negative nancy’s and isn’t reflective of the overall condition of the machines being delivered.

How is yours holding up? Are you having planking issues? You know who I am and I know who you are and my name is not Nancy. When have I ever complained. I have not found one locally that is correct. Care to post you color and playfeild pictures? Thanks in advance.

#3841 1 year ago
Quoted from dashv:

Just for documentation. I recently received and setup my AFM LE (#21).
Out of box it had the following issues:
* Bolts for left flippers were rattling around loose in the table (below the playfield). Had to put back in and tighten with an allen wrench.
* Left Popper only worked half the time. Had to bend the bracket to "align" it properly. Now works 100% of the time. The bracket is pretty soft and didn't need much pressure to bend about a quarter inch.
* Yellow handle is hard as piss to lock. I still need to figure out how to adjust it.
* Main Saucer is badly scarred from where it was cut from the mold.
* Scorecard art was slightly scratched
So far Game Room Guys (the place I bought it from) has been awesome and helped me sort out the hardware issues.
I just created a ticket open with CGC for the cosmetic items, I don't expect to encounter any problems there.
I feel pretty lucky that my number was so low but the colors and playfield art all seem good to me.
Can anyone show me in a series of pictures or (preferably a video) what the hell I am supposed to do with the locking arm when the table is up? I'm probably missing something obvious but I read the manual and stared at the open table for 20 minutes last night and just could not figure it out.

Quality Control at its highest. Everyone should just be happy and accept it.

#3842 1 year ago
Quoted from Damien:

According to Doug, EVERY game will have chipping issues if Cliffys are not installed. That's directly from the horse's mouth.

I find it hard to believe they can't absorb $50 on a $8300 machine....hell I'd pay $8350 if they would just include....at least JJP is finally drinking the cool aid

#3843 1 year ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

I find it hard to believe they can't absorb $50 on a $8300 machine....hell I'd pay $8350 if they would just include....at least JJP is finally drinking the cool aid

That PLUS the manufacturer is reducing claims for chipped playfields by including the Cliffies. That has to be a net net benefit.

#3844 1 year ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

at least JJP is finally drinking the cool aid

And laughing their asses off!

#3845 1 year ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

I'm starting to realize it's not as bad as it may seem in here, not that there are not issues, but why is the top 100 dominated by CGC? I'm happy with mine too, just looking for a perfect pinball It asked me for my initials for the first time today and played a special song at the end for me. I got $6,800,000,000 or something... what do all you nancies have to say about trying to top THAT score!

Vacation America is dominating the top 100. Remake any of top games and you will be on top until issues arise. AFM is a great game. I never would have bought the remake if I did think so.

https://pinside.com/pinball/archive/vacation-america

#3846 1 year ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

I think this thread is being run by a few negative nancy’s and isn’t reflective of the overall condition of the machines being delivered.

I think there could be some truth to what you are saying but i also think there could be some truth to CGC not standing behind their product as good as they should and that there may be some quality issues. I want to know if i get a shitty playfield that it is going to be replaced because im not rich enough to eat 8 thousand dollars. I have to bust my ass and save like crazy to buy a 8K game.

-1
#3847 1 year ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

Vacation America is dominating the top 100.

you're missing the point... why are they voted the top 2 all the time? They are rated even higher than the originals they copy. I"m just pointing that out.

#3848 1 year ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

How is yours holding up? Are you having planking issues? You know who I am and I know who you are and my name is not Nancy. When have I ever complained. I have not found one locally that is correct. Care to post you color and playfeild pictures? Thanks in advance.

Ya I know, bought my TAF from you
Colors are fine. No planking. I installed Cliffies from day 1, always do on all of my games new and used. Mine is a little dimply, but I’ve learned to accept that and it does level out over time. Just need to play more!
Sorry you are having issues with yours, just saying this thread has become negative and I’m not sure that’s a fair representation of the machines being delivered. I’m sure there are some issues, always are with any manufacturer/game. I think pinball has proven variability and imperfection exists. Just strike a fair price deal with Doug on a new playfield and swap it out after you’ve played yours a ton.

#3849 1 year ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

Just strike a fair price deal with Doug on a new playfield and swap it out after you’ve played yours a ton.

Hey Doug you hearing this! Wisdom from Wacky! I love it!

#3850 1 year ago
Quoted from dashv:

Can anyone show me in a series of pictures or (preferably a video) what the hell I am supposed to do with the locking arm when the table is up?

Red arrow points to the knob on the end of the playfield rod support - green arrow points along the playfield locking slide, not in your picture but farther up is a notch where the knob locks.

And as mschonbrun posted, don't use it. Pull out playfield until it locks and then lift up and lean on the backbox.

LTG : )

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