Attack From Mars Remake (AFMr) Owners Club

(Topic ID: 192072)

Attack From Mars Remake (AFMr) Owners Club


By Pin_Guy

1 year ago



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  • 367 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 hours ago by golfingdad1
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#3451 6 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

Jack stepped up and moved the ball forward by installing Cliffies from the factory, starting with Dialed In

When I talked to Cliffy about this, I believe that he told me that these aren't his products.

I could be wrong but that's the way I remember the conversation.

I don't think that any pinball manufacturer is buying actual/real Cliffy's...but I'm OK with someone correcting me.

Robert

#3452 6 months ago
Quoted from mschonbrun:

I think that’s fair. It’s one of those short fuse subjects that if you’re in the hobby for a while it’s hard to start from the proper place. So for that, I certainly apologize if it came across short.
My point remains, this is part of the hobby. And is preventable with products out there made to prevent it.
And we muddle on.
Marc

I think it boils down to 'compared to what'. I'm ok with chipping, I don't see how it's possible not to have any with any clearcoat, so I"m on board on all this stuff... the only thing missing is a 'best of' example of a playfield that has withheld the test of time with no chipping... ( I ask assuming there is no such thing )

My conclusion was to protect everything including full playfield protector, and either leave that on forever. No chipping

#3453 6 months ago
Quoted from MrSanRamon:

When I talked to Cliffy about this, I believe that he told me that these aren't his products.
I could be wrong but that's the way I remember the conversation.
I don't think that any pinball manufacturer is buying actual/real Cliffy's...but I'm OK with someone correcting me.
Robert

Correct. In using the term cliffy as a generic term for thin metal protectors.

#3454 6 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

? Your post is too brief. What are you saying?

Aerosmith came with a factory cliffy installed (left scoop) before Dialed In.

#3455 6 months ago

I'm a bit scared to ask, but why not leave the clearcoat off, and use the same type of plastic used for full playfield protectors instead?

#3456 6 months ago
Quoted from MrSanRamon:

When I talked to Cliffy about this, I believe that he told me that these aren't his products.
I could be wrong but that's the way I remember the conversation.
I don't think that any pinball manufacturer is buying actual/real Cliffy's...but I'm OK with someone correcting me.
Robert

This just changed late last month when the first Dialed Ins left the factory with actual real Cliffies (I contacted Cliff to check and they ARE his on the new Dialed Ins). No idea why Jack and JJP aren't advertising this as it really looks good for them as an industry-leading forward-facing pinball manufacturer.

#3457 6 months ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Aerosmith came with a factory cliffy installed (left scoop) before Dialed In.

No it did not. It came with a ripoff of a cliffy-style protector Stern did with no input from or reimbursement to Cliff. Scummy, but Stern. If Cliffy didn't design it, it's a metal protector, not a cliffy.

#3458 6 months ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

I'm a bit scared to ask, but why not leave the clearcoat off, and use the same type of plastic used for full playfield protectors instead?

Because they're ugly, thick, and cloud up. There is no problem with properly prepped surfaces and properly applied clear.

#3459 6 months ago
Quoted from Budman:

Changing the conversation for a second: I am a 6 day old owner; beautiful game but darn difficult! I walk over and play STLE with its smooth flow just to get a break!
I have my game at 7.4 and flippers at -3 and Titan flipper rubber. Everything else at default. My games are normally under 1 billion but had a 3.5 bill and total annihilation twice..... very sucky, I know. I brick a lot of shots and seems like “cheap drains” quite often.
I’m thinking of expanding the ball save time and playing with the outline posts. What does it mean to make the outlines easier? Am I “ raising the posts “ and if so, am I literally screwing them out of the playfield a touch? Aside from more practice, any suggestions that has mercy on me until I get a better hang of the game would be appreciated.

7.4 is pretty steep for me, you might lower that a bit and see how it feels if you are having a hard time keeping balls alive. The "outlane posts" themselves are the rubber posts above the left and right drains. If you lift the playfield you can loosen the screw on them and then slide them up or down. Moving them down(towards the drain) narrows the gap through which a ball can get through to drain down the sides. So lowering it results in it being easier. I dropped mine after a while and I enjoy it a lot more now. Aside from the game right after lowering where I somehow RTU'd I've never been anywhere close since and have only destroyed Mars twice(and I'm no slouch) so I definitely don't think it makes the game too easy. Also go nuts and do whatever you want in terms of that if you find you aren't enjoying it as much as you should.
Also one quick tip if you feel like you are experiencing a lot of cheap drains down the middle, be selective in when you shoot for the ship targets, especially if the 3 bank isn't opened up yet. The SOL will usually award Attack Wave Start which will safely open the bank up. Direct shots into that bank can easily result in your ball coming back STDM. Also don't forget that if you hold the left flipper and launch the Super Skill Shot will turn on which lights all ramps/orbits/mothership 3 bank for a few seconds. Hitting any of the orbits/ramps will automatically complete the ladder for it, but more importantly hitting the 3 bank once will immediately open the mothership. With the ball save on for a few seconds even if you nail it and drain STDM you will get your ball back. Almost all the casuals that play at my house will just hammer at that center target and it results in a lot of lost balls.

#3460 6 months ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

I'm a bit scared to ask, but why not leave the clearcoat off, and use the same type of plastic used for full playfield protectors instead?

I think it boils down to what the goal of the product is. It’s still to make a commercial-quality machine, not to make a product that will never show any wear. Engineering is always one of those things where you have 3 axises and have to pick 2.

Marc

#3461 6 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

No it did not. It came with a ripoff of a cliffy-style protector Stern did with no input from or reimbursement to Cliff. Scummy, but Stern. If Cliffy didn't design it, it's a metal protector, not a cliffy.

Quoted from cooked71:

Correct. In using the term cliffy as a generic term for thin metal protectors.

#3462 6 months ago
Quoted from markp99:

^This. I am thinking of aiming for the posts themselves. Maybe I'd hit more ramp entrances this way?

This is pure genius!

#3463 6 months ago
Quoted from mschonbrun:

Considering what I spent on the truck, was I annoyed I had to buy mats? Maybe a little.

I would have told them this "If you aren't going to include the mats, I'm just not going to buy the truck."

#3464 6 months ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

I would have told them this "If you aren't going to include the mats, I'm just not going to buy the truck."

He should at least offer the mats as a billable option, since the customer would most likely want mats.

#3465 6 months ago

IMO the chipping posts have gotten out of control, the simple facts are this:

1) All new playfields in production games are experiencing clear coat chipping at unprotected edges.
2) The clear coat chips off deeper from the hole/edge than any wood on any playfield would ever chip regardless of the number of plays.
3) Manufacturers know about this issue.
4) People continue to pay ever increasing prices for new machines despite these issues.

The first two are a quality issue, the 3rd will only be solved if the 4th stops or there is a class action lawsuit filed against the manufacturers.

#3466 6 months ago
Quoted from mschonbrun:

Here’s mine. That white stuff around the SOL is under the Mylar. Backing paper maybe? Never really noticed it until tonight. But the edge is smooth and no chipping.

mschonbrun Thank you for taking the time to take pictures of your machine and to post them.

The white is paint under the clear, its a non issue and most playfields I've seen (mine included) have this minor defect and I also never noticed it until looking at the closeup pictures. It does look like the improved Mantis style protector is doing what its designed to do; the only thing I wish is that this protector had mounting tabs on opposing corners so that it couldn't get pushed further down below the surface which deceases its effectiveness.

I also have no protection in the mother ship hole, nor am I worried about cosmetic damage where I cannot see it without hovering over the machine with a spotlight...everyone will have their own limits on what they consider normal wear and tear.

#3467 6 months ago

If i get a remake i will definitely get the Cliffy's for it. Now i just gotta decide between AFMR and MMR, and that is NOT an easy decision i tell ya.

#3468 6 months ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

I would have told them this "If you aren't going to include the mats, I'm just not going to buy the truck."

But I realllllllly wanted to truck. Lol. Software engineers driving pickup trucks in Silicon Valley. Inconceivable!

#3469 6 months ago

If ordering cliffys for a game you will be buying, order well in advance. I ordered cliffys for my AFMr two months ago and am still waiting. Come to think of it, I’m still waiting for the PIC2 as well.

#3470 6 months ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

Also, if you provide answers, it may be more helpful if you provide justification and not just "playfield protectors should be banned" etc... without backing up with any details about why.
Oops, did not mean to double post

I've never tried a PF protector. My opinion is based solely on owning a lot of machines and never feeling the need for one. All my machines have held up great over the years, so I guess my snarky opinion on PF protectors is without deep R&D

Having owned many pinball machines, homes, furniture, etc., I can tell you that anything built primarily by humans has gone down in quality over the past decade. Stern machines build in 2004 (LOTR, TSPP) are noticeably more solid. My LOTR has many thousands of plays and still looks/plays great. The GIMLI switch was replaced one month after unboxing and since then 0 switches have failed.

snaroff

#3471 6 months ago

Finally got my LED lighting working. Thanks to everyone for their help with this. Esp Whthrs for all his advice, pics, and replying to my messages.

#3472 6 months ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Correct. In using the term cliffy as a generic term for thin metal protectors.

Which is not good for Cliff because it encourages his product being ripped off. If Gary Stern can get you saying Aerosmith has Cliffies, he'll keep ripping off Cliff, which isn't cool. Drawing a line and only calling actual Cliffies by that name respects Cliff's work and the fact that he's helped the hobby a LOT by coming up with the idea all those years ago and still banging them out now.

#3473 6 months ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

I don't think we are losing sleep, just some of us are using this forum to learn things more experienced folks such as yourself have gone over to your satisfaction at one point on your own schedule. I'm sure you needed to ask the very same questions being asked here to come to a logical conclusion about how much chipping is expected, and if everyone told you to go away and stop talking or thinking about it, you would not have the knowledge to think you can convince others they are wasting time looking for the same answers.

I was lucky to have local pinball mentors. Online mentorship can work, but it's tougher since nothing beats seeing/playing a game in person.

Some folks are clearly consumed by PF damage issues. I respect folks with damage want CGC to do a "mea culpa" and fix the chipping problems, but it ain't going to happen.

The pinball manufacturers all have distinct corporate cultures that we have to work with. If you don't agree with how your game is performing and aren't satisfied with the companies response, spend your money elsewhere. As many others have pointed out, voting with your dollars is the way to go.

snaroff

#3474 6 months ago
Quoted from Miknan:

Finally got my LED lighting working. Thanks to everyone for their help with this. Esp Whthrs for all his advice, pics, and replying to my messages.

Yay! It looks awesome! Nice job!

#3475 6 months ago
Quoted from snaroff:

spend your money elsewhere. As many others have pointed out, voting with your dollars is the way to go.

Yep! You Bet! If you don't like crappy quality playfields sell your game and don't buy anymore remakes or any other new in the box game! That is exactly the point! It also is a heads up to the guys that stop by here to get the latest info on a game they may want to buy! I have figured out that there is no NIB game that doesn't come with some risk. There are a lot of folks that believe that buying a NIB game means you get a new perfect game! You might or might not.

#3476 6 months ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

Yep! You Bet! If you don't like crappy quality playfields sell your game and don't buy anymore remakes or any other new in the box game! That is exactly the point! It also is a heads up to the guys that stop by here to get the latest info on a game they may want to buy! I have figured out that there is no NIB game that doesn't come with some risk. There are a lot of folks that believe that buying a NIB game means you get a new perfect game! You might or might not.

Agreed, all manufacturer's are putting out their share of crap these days.

Which means it's only HUO for me.

#3477 6 months ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

Yep! You Bet! If you don't like crappy quality playfields sell your game and don't buy anymore remakes or any other new in the box game! That is exactly the point! It also is a heads up to the guys that stop by here to get the latest info on a game they may want to buy! I have figured out that there is no NIB game that doesn't come with some risk. There are a lot of folks that believe that buying a NIB game means you get a new perfect game! You might or might not.

Well said! Well said!

#3478 6 months ago
Quoted from mschonbrun:

My boss said something pretty profound recently which was that the most important thing was to show up and have the conversation. Even if it doesn’t always go your way, it’s critical to participate.

Many of us aren’t having clear coat issues but other planking issues. Cliffy won’t fix anything.

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#3479 6 months ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

Many of us aren’t having clear coat issues but other planking issues. Cliffy won’t fix anything.

That nude color mistake is more distracting than the wood grain.

#3480 6 months ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

Many of us aren’t having clear coat issues but other planking issues. Cliffy won’t fix anything.

Have you contacted CGC?

#3481 6 months ago
Quoted from mschonbrun:

Have you contacted CGC?

Yes. Awaiting playfeild status. Getting new plastics again. It is like a new car you want and expect it to look nice. To change topics is 2.0 working well for everyone? Seems no issues there.

#3482 6 months ago
Quoted from DngrWillRobinson:

If ordering cliffys for a game you will be buying, order well in advance. I ordered cliffys for my AFMr two months ago and am still waiting. Come to think of it, I’m still waiting for the PIC2 as well.

There are other people creating protection products. Cliffy must have such a high demand that he can't keep up with the need (or something). I've got them from Ebay and other places. The seem to all do the job. Some take more work, double sided tape or something to make them as good as the original. Have you seen the clear protection. I think they're called Nudies. Maybe they're only made for the shooter lanes?

#3483 6 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

Which is not good for Cliff because it encourages his product being ripped off. If Gary Stern can get you saying Aerosmith has Cliffies, he'll keep ripping off Cliff, which isn't cool. Drawing a line and only calling actual Cliffies by that name respects Cliff's work and the fact that he's helped the hobby a LOT by coming up with the idea all those years ago and still banging them out now.

Aerosmith "thin metal scoop protector" is very good since the scoop was designed with it in mind.

Naming a category of products after a brand that is the original or market leader is something that has been happening since brands were a thing. Walkmans, Ipods, Esky, White Out, Band Aids, Biro's, Uber etc etc. Happens all the time. Good or bad, its usually a reflection on the fact that the original product is so groundbreaking that it has created a whole new category . No different with Cliffy in this case.

#3484 6 months ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

Yes. Awaiting playfeild status. Getting new plastics again. It is like a new car you want and expect it to look nice. To change topics is 2.0 working well for everyone? Seems no issues there.

2.0 is working great here too. -4 is my sleep number.

#3485 6 months ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Aerosmith "thin metal scoop protector" is very good since the scoop was designed with it in mind.
Naming a category of products after a brand that is the original or market leader is something that has been happening since brands were a thing. Walkmans, Ipods, Esky, White Out, Band Aids, Biro's, Uber etc etc. Happens all the time. Good or bad, its usually a reflection on the fact that the original product is so groundbreaking that it has created a whole new category . No different with Cliffy in this case.

I'm not unaware of what you're saying, just that Stern, etc should not be rewarded for ripping Cliff off unapologetically when buyers (confused or lazy) call what Stern did Cliffies, because they took the concept, benefited, and Cliff got zip out of it. It's a respect issue for Cliff, imo.

JJP should be applauded for doing what's right for their machines, customers and Cliff by using real Cliffies on Dialed In now and compensating Cliff for it. Stern should get none of that goodwill for stealing it. But I'll shut up about that now. The point's been made.

#3486 6 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

JJP should be applauded for doing what's right for their machines, customers and Cliff by using real Cliffies on Dialed In now and compensating Cliff for it.

If I was to guess, id say JJP only offered the real Cliffy on the scoops after they realised how crap their home made ones were (which I received and since had to buy Cliffy's) and didn't have time or volume to source their own ones in a thin metal. He was a quick source and made the game playable compared to their other crap ones.

I would imagined if they were to offer "thin metal protectors" on future games, they would source them directly themselves at a cheaper price.

But that's all speculation. I hope Cliffy himself can benefit as he is a huge asset to pinball. Not sure JJP or any other manufacturer care about that enough over saving money.

#3487 6 months ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

Many of us aren’t having clear coat issues but other planking issues. Cliffy won’t fix anything.

What causes this planking? Is it from impact, or would this start appearing even if the playfield was sitting idle with no use?

#3488 6 months ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

What causes this planking? Is it from impact, or would this start appearing even if the playfield was sitting idle with no use?

I don’t think that’s planking.

#3489 6 months ago
Quoted from mschonbrun:

I don’t think that’s planking

It's not planking. It looks more like poorly prepped wood was painted. That's what it would look like if it wasn't sanded perfectly smooth before painting.

#3490 6 months ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

It's not planking. It looks more like poorly prepped wood was painted. That's what it would look like if it wasn't sanded perfectly smooth before painting.

So this issue would show up right out of the box right?

#3491 6 months ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

What causes this planking? Is it from impact, or would this start appearing even if the playfield was sitting idle with no use?

It is planking as they are starting to come apart and open. I think it is the dry climate as all the ones I can see in Colorado are doing it. Had two friends sell theirs cause of it. We were assuming at first all are doing it everywhere but now I think a manufacturing issue on the dryness of wood and time between clear coats. Playing has no factor on it and will ge worse just sitting.

#3492 6 months ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

It's not planking. It looks more like poorly prepped wood was painted. That's what it would look like if it wasn't sanded perfectly smooth before painting.

Maybe but why is it getting worse? I have theories but it gets slowly worse.

#3493 6 months ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

It is planking as they are starting to come apart and open. I think it is the dry climate as all the ones I can see in Colorado are doing it. Had two friends sell theirs cause of it. We were assuming at first all are doing it everywhere but now I think a manufacturing issue on the dryness of wood and time between clear coats. Playing has no factor on it and will ge worse just sitting.

Ok, good to know. Do you know the relative humidity the pin was sitting in? It's fairly dry here and I'm at just over 40% humidity.

#3494 6 months ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

Maybe but why is it getting worse? I have theories but it gets slowly worse.

If its truly getting worse then that's another issue. I can't say for certain as I only have the provided pictures to go off of and mine is smooth as glass after 6 months (aside from dimples of course). Typically planking comes from long periods of time of extremely high humid exposure that causes the glue to loose adhesion from wood expanding and contracting. I'm no expert so I'm only going off of information I have read about over the years. Anyway, unless it has been abused, I would certainly demand a new populated playfield from CGC. The good news there is that these new playfields will be much easier to swap out (populated) than the old days.

#3495 6 months ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

It is planking as they are starting to come apart and open. I think it is the dry climate as all the ones I can see in Colorado are doing it. Had two friends sell theirs cause of it. We were assuming at first all are doing it everywhere but now I think a manufacturing issue on the dryness of wood and time between clear coats. Playing has no factor on it and will ge worse just sitting.

Open up a ticket and request a replacement.
Its obviously a bad/poorly prepped blank with wrong colors on it. It probably should have been rejected as a blank before it was printed. The clearcoat should protect the surface from any indoor climate variations. Not all plywood is perfect, its an organic product.

It will take some time to get a swap-out but they will do it. CGC is a good company to deal with.

Play the hell out of the game and really enjoy it in the mean time.

#3496 6 months ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Open up a ticket and request a replacement.
Its obviously a bad/poorly prepped blank with wrong colors on it. It probably should have been rejected as a blank before it was printed. The clearcoat should protect the surface from any indoor climate variations. Not all plywood is perfect, its an organic product.
It will take some time to get a swap-out but they will do it. CGC is a good company to deal with.
Play the hell out of the game and really enjoy it in the mean time.

I wonder if all of the playfields showing this issues are all skin tone... Seems to me something was missed on the colors, so it would not be a surprise if there were other prep issues.

#3497 6 months ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

Many of us aren’t having clear coat issues but other planking issues. Cliffy won’t fix anything.

What is your playfield number?

#3498 6 months ago
Quoted from bitpatrol:

What causes this planking

Planking usually happens when there is a change in humidity. The wood itself cracks and lifts.

#3499 6 months ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

It looks more like poorly prepped wood was painted

Maybe it started out that way and got worse as it cured. It may end up as planking if it continues to get worse. I am sure CGC will want to replace it as I cant believe they want one of their customers to have a brand new game looking like that.

#3500 6 months ago

For everyone who has formed the opinion that clear chipping is acceptable or par for the course in today's pinball world, we'll see how quickly your tune changes if chipping ever starts to form at the switch slots.

I just played a MMR that had some chipping starting at the switch behind the castle. If that opens up, that is going to be bad news!

We're only two years into these remakes...

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