I have a low play original also that plays completely different. I would love to know why more air balls on the remakes. Same parts etc should play the same. Unless the remade parts aren’t exactly the same. The remakes are beautiful and what a interesting light show.

The lighting on tha AFMr is better not a completely on off like aftermarket LEDs. Yes i know i can buy a board to fix that. It also has the multiple colored ships and interactive topper hard to beat. That said the flippers do feel different even after adjusting with to many air balls not in orginal game. The original silk screen cabinets are great and are more expensive to produce than a decal. As for being better built cabinets yes the materials are modern but time will tell. I have a friend who restores and manufactures arcade video games and he says the new materials will not last compared to the 80’s and 90’s materials as the glue products they used were better then and banned now by California. My 23 year cabinet is great and not coming apart like many of the stern or other games. Changing the flipper material can be the biggest difference. I did on my GBLE and much less air balls.

Chicago gaming quality seems to have dipped down recently with increase production but they will get that sorted out. Remember big improvement since the last attempt at what they believed to be a incredible dwarf pinball machine called “Vacation America” designed by the now infamous John trudeau. Only 530 made. Maybe a remake coming.

Because the coils are a little too powerful with the default settings in my opinion. When you get and install the 2.0 PIC, turn the flippers down a little and it will play a lot better.

I dispute that claim. PVA glue, also know as yellow glue such as Titebond is incredibly strong, so much so that the glue is stronger than the wood itself. By that I mean, if the joint is subjected to stress the wood around the joint will break before the joint at the glue line. PVA glue has been around for quite some time and has a proven track record. Even if the glue used in the 80’s and 90’s was stronger it wouldn’t matter since PVA is already stronger than the wood so you don’t benefit from a stronger glue. Failures in cabinet joints comes from poor construction at the outset not poor glue. For example, if the joint didn’t get enough glue or there was insufficient clamping pressure or it is an ill-fitting joint to begin with.

Also, is there not a benefit in having decals over silkscreen? It's easier to replace/fix a decal no?

Flipper power too high. I turned my settings down. no more air balls. No remake is going to play exactly like an original but they can play as good. (this is an opinion) But games don't all play alike anyway original or not.

I noted this in an earlier post. It looks like they are using a clear type of glue, not sure what it is, maybe something water based. Yellow glue is what should be used, like you say, it becomes stronger than the wood and if done right, no way a joint can pull apart under normal conditions.

Anyone getting clearcoat chipping around their SOL even with the CGC protector?

Most of my airballs (besides flippers being too strong) are hitting the drop target under the mothership. Sometimes the rebound from hitting the drop target will send the ball inches into the air. Is there a setting for that drop target or is just due to flippers being too strong?

Due to the flippers being too strong. Once dialed back, this stops.

Pictures please.

You can see a big chip to the right side of the SOL.

The hole behind the spaceship where the balls drop into is even worse.

WTF is up with the clearcoats!?!?

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I have a little chip on the right hand edge of the SOL hole. It was clearly caused by an airball as the mantis-style protector is also dented; probably the same event.

I added a strip of Mylar over that edge, hoping to add the slightest bit of protection/padding in that area.

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I plan on shopping my original later, and thought I'd post a photo to compare. This restoration is 7-8 years old with ~1000-2000 plays? The computer memory was wiped clean several times, so I don't have a precise game count. Actually sold it to another collector and got it back after a couple years.

You can see the ball is hitting the Mantis protector in exactly the same spot without chipping the clear. It appears the Mantis protector on mine is a tad higher than yours, which might explain why it's doing a better job protecting the clear.

Nevertheless, I agree that clear coats are much more fragile on some of the recent game being produced (don't think it's AFMr specific).

snaroff

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That's exactly why I cliffied that hole, first thing. The mantis-style protector does not protect the playfield surface area around the hole.

My Mantis appears to be just slightly higher still. It appears that it needs to be almost flush tocompletely protect the hole.

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The clear coat is definitely thicker on the remakes.

got my cliffys on order right away same as I did for mmr, people dont seem to know how to clearcoat anymore it seems

Hi,
I've got a bit of an issue with the translite, and would appreciate your feed back as to whether you think its something I should follow up with CGC.
I noticed it on delivery, the guy who put it together said it was probably condensation, which given the long journey to the UK and the low temperatures during transportation, sounds about right.

As you can see from the photos, the Martian "picture" looks as though its sort of delaminated, so there's what look like large bubbles behind the glass, it looks like the picture is a bit buckled behind and not flush against the glass. To be honest it's far more noticeable with the lights off, but still noticeable when the machine and lights are on, and possibly bugs me more than it should..

Let me know your thoughts, thanks.

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It just looks a little stuck. If I was you, I’d take it apart and clean the face of the translite and the glass and put it back together and see if that helps.

Marc

That's about where mine is at. Many many games and not chipping. I added the mothership cliffy since I knew that area would get abused. No others added and no chipping I can find anywhere else. I do have the center drop target cliffy, I just don't like the way it looks there. I must have been lucky to get one of the early units and have not had the issues described here aside from the launch issue. That was corrected by leveling the plunger.

I had a bit on the shooter lane where the ball pops out. I added the 2 cliffys that go there and it's good.

It's like moisture between glass and translite. Sticks translite in spots to glass.

As Marc said, clean it. When I've run into this in the past, I sprinkle some talcum powder on the glass and blow it off. End of problem.

LTG : )

In its prior life, my JP had beer/soda spilled between the translite and the glass. Looked very much like that. Not sure how that could actually happen. I guess it's true what they say, what happens on route stays on route.

Cleaned-up nicely, after carefully separating the translite from the glass.

Silkscreen is always better as wont wrinkle. You can also put a decal over silkscreen.

Received a msg. from Doug. Our 2.0 kits have been shipped. We'll get them out to all of our customers the minute they arrive. Thanks for your patience.

Tommy

Cool contacting my dealer now. He was thinking end of this week.

Yeah this one is an early build.

My distributor messaged me today. Getting chips by the end of the week. Stoked. Finally will be able to play the game it was meany to be played. Cut down on these damn air balls

Thank you and Larry at FlipNOut for keeping us posted.

Was speaking to Ron Kruzman about these clearcoat issues, and he was telling me that when he does a pf, he puts in 8 coats, but there are setting periods in between a lot of these coats. Some even a few weeks before putting on additional coats. And when he's done with the 8, he'll occasionally do a couple more to ensure it is perfect.

And then there's my AFMR that was chipping after 50 games!

I am going to be joining this club very soon I hope.

Yes I forgot about that. I did put the protection on my shooting lane. That's a standard procedure for any NIB game for me, so I forgot to mention it specifically.

Maybe time for a cliffy. I didn't do mine either because I just don't like the way they look. I did the mother ship hole because of the RAW abuse it sees and you cant really see the cliffy. I was inspired not to do the SOL hole by a guy who bought one of these to operate and he had almost 2000 plays with no damage. His was an early build and the Mantis was almost flush on the pf.

I used Mylar there. Haven't had any issues yet!

According to USPS tracking I will receive the PIC 2.0 updates tomorrow. I already have the labels created for my customers so we will turn these around asap and by next week all my customers will have the update in hand.

[email protected]

Ron does gorgeous work, but it has little to do with the chipping issues. I don't think it's fair to expect the CGC's CC process to compete with Ron, however chipping after 50 games is really unfortunate.

It's possible to have a cost effective CC that doesn't chip! CGC and JJP seem to have more CC chipping issues than Stern. I've owned many Stern pins and haven't had chipping issues. Not saying there aren't examples of Stern PF's chipping, but my experience has been good.

Ron's process can cost $700-$1000, and that's quite reasonable given the time and attention to detail. If this level of detail is what you seek, I'm sure you can find a restored original for not much more than AFMr costs. Here is a fairly recent FS post: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-custom-restored-attack-from-mars-must-see.

snaroff

That's a gorgeous machine! MM is my personal favorites, so I'm on the lookout for a restored original.

For my MMR, I may buy another pf and have Ron do his magic on it so I can swap one day in the future when the current one is all beat up.

Let me know if you hear of any nice MMs

There have been several on here as of late. The ones I have seen fitting your criteria have been going for around $8500 but they are gone in sixty seconds.
There have been others but they are players condition (scratched some wear) they are a bit cheaper but require work to get them in the condition your looking for. There is one of those on DCL now. You would end up putting more money into one those than necessary then just waiting for a nice one. The MM your talking about is going to go up in value soon due to the renewed interest as of late.

Agree.

A factory clear does != Ron’s clear; it’s just not a thing to expect from ANY factory made playfield.

AFM has two places where wear occurs, the scoop and the saucer. Whether or not this is happening faster on the remake is tangential to the fact that nearly ALL original machines have significant wear in those two spots. If you want those parts of your game to show no wear, install a Cliffy. Otherwise, play the snot out of your game, rule the universe and have a blast doing it. Playfields are available and should you chose to go that route, have Ron clear your replacement PF and swap it in. Node based games have less wiring, are more modular and are quite a bit easier to swap should you need to go that route.

Marc

My lock hole was actually the first edge to chip, followed by drain, saucer hole, and lastly, the SOL.

I'm waiting on my SOL Cliffy, as I ordered the rest thinking the CGC protector would cover me. I've shut the game down until I get them installed.

Might as well wait on that PIC 2.0 too.

I haven't seen any well restored MMs for $8500. I've seen one for $10,500 but with a Mirco pf which I'm not interested in.

If anyone hears of any nicely restored MMs, please let me know.

pinlawyer in AZ sold his and it was gone quick. richyrich picked up one in CA for $8500 also having it sent AU. They do show up but not for long....

Sold mine few months ago for 9250... beautiful restored playfield and cab with tons of expensive mods including new lighted apron. Color dmd. Plexy lighted backboard. Upgraded sound. Lighted troll and dragon. Lighted pop up trolls and eyes. Lighted moat. All cliffys and mantis and many other smaller things.

The originals suffered wear after thousands of plays. Chipping after 50 games is just odd, and I'm surprised you think it's tangential. From my perspective, chipping/damage has cropped up much more over the past year with some NIB pins.

snaroff

I'll have to keep my ear to the ground.

Did your have an original pf or Mirco?

Maybe orthigonal is a better word for it. I don’t know why some remakes chip anc others don’t. Could be due to flipper strength and balls flying around the game? Unclear.

Stern uses multiple vendors. I'm more of the mind that some are better than others at the clearcoating process prep.

That very well may be true for Stern, but in the case of AFM, CGC made (some/most/all) the originals and all of the new ones. Materials may have changed, process may have changed. It’s still pinball and it’s still gloriously fun.