Agree with snaroff. This game has enough bling already.
Only thing we added was a piece of invisiglass.
I guess I might consider the 3D translite someday.

I move a sheet of PDI over and then ditched the mirrored blades for bladeskinz.

Debated about 3D as well, have it on my MMr, most days love it and some days wish I just had the original since it’s blurry from some angles.

You need to remove the topper to see the four on the bottom holding the whole assembly.

LTG : )

I'm not that much of topper guy, but if all toppers were designed/built like this, I'd become one pretty quickly

The attention to detail on the topper AND the packaging were a pleasant surprise. Wow.

snaroff

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Nice shoes snaroff!!!
?

Thanks for the info LTG
Good to have you here on the forum

Trying to figure where these two cliffys attach to. Anyone out there have an idea?

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Shame the ship is going via Sydney to Melbourne..! Do you think if I just showed up at the docks...?

The long straight one looks like its for the Martian target area The other one I'm not sure maybe the lock.

Tried the 4 screws under the topper but it didn't do much difference.I'll just leave it the way it is and concetrate on playing.Mabye my eyes are playing tricks on me when i'm looking at the big ugly marsan
Fantastic machine btw

I got green back board leds, looks a bit dark back there, blue trough leds to go with the blue near the flippers. Also got green translucent rubbers all round, the green Super Bands should blitz the black ones. Also got transparent and blue Super Bands just to see how it looks. Still waiting for my machine but looks good in my head. If it takes any longer I will end up with police lights underneath.

My SE delivered today! Woohoo!!!
Seeing all you guys and your LE sometimes makes me wish I did not cheap out.
I'm really excited and can't wait to get it setup.

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Thanks man!! Got 'em in. Appreciate the help.

My machine just arrived Sunday and my Cliffy's are on order. How long did it take you to install them all?

Which reminds me.... LE #631 in the house and hot off the presses - date of manufacture is less than a week before it was delivered. Not set up yet - waiting on Leg/Cabinet protectors and Cliffy's to arrive before assembling.

Just set mine up yesterday and immediately notice the wonky shooter behavior. The plunger mech wasn't striking the ball center...off by less than 1/8". Took off the apron, removed the screw/washer for the PF bracket, loosened the 3 screws that attach the plunger and moved it in a bit. Wasn't able to get it absolutely perfect (not really that adjustable), however it has enough play to make it work properly. Superskill now makes the orbit reliably (though it doesn't have the speed I would want/expect).

snaroff

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With CGC on here knowing about a reoccurring problem, why do so many people have trouble with the shooter out of the box? Is it really just a small number encountering this or should I plan on addressing this with adjustments, washers, etc right out of the box. Excited to get mine but I’m not as good at fixing this stuff as you guys are so I’m kind of nervous.

The Latter!

Have no fear my good man we will assist you in getting her all straightened out! Just pick up (from Hardware store) a couple or three 8/32 flat washers.
Remove the screw on the right wire form ramp (just below the saucer). Lift the ramp gently and slide two of those washers in under the mount hole. Replace the screw. You will need a no 2 Phillips screw driver. I am running my Auto plunger now at Default setting.

Adjusting the shooter plunger is the correct fix. I don't believe adding washers is the right fix. If the ball is being struck in the proper location, it shouldn't get near hitting the wireform. Raising the wireform is only masking the true problem (the shooter plunger isn't adjusted properly as my photo demonstrates above).

Maybe Lloyd can chime in.

snaroff

Hello everyone - I have to second the previous concerns. Does CGC monitor this forum (like AP does their Houdini post)? I have a down payment on an LE and I too am concerned that units are still being made and shipped with the same issues over and over. Why aren't these issues being addressed before shipment at this point? Like change the default flipper strength or adjust the ramp or better align the plunger and flippers as a few examples. Is this an issue with quality control, or an inflexible build routine, or are my expectations too high for an $8k unit? This is an awesome forum and you all are great but shouldn't we expect more from CGC at this point? Any input is appreciated as this is my first NIB pin. Thank you

As an example - I don't want to decide if adding washers or adjusting the plunger is going to be the right solution - that is what I expected CGC to have already done. I want to enjoy my NIB pin when I get it. I know it benefits us to be tweakers in this hobby but this isn't a 20+ year old pin we are talking about here. Thanks for your input.

As an update - I have sent my concerns to CGC so they have a chance to respond. If they respond to me directly I will update here as well. Thanks again everyone.

I've been in the hobby for ~15 years. When I started out, I purchased a couple NIB games (LOTR, TSPP) and was too busy to deal with problems. Purchased from a local distributor who did all tweaks/maintenance. Those 2 Stern pins happened to be rock solid and didn't require much fiddling.

Fast forward to today. From my perspective, all pins require tweaking now. I just "dialed in" my AFMr in a couple hours (shooter & flippers needed adjusting). Haven't played it enough to know if it's perfect, but it's playing well after half dozen games. OTOH, took me 3 days to "dial in" my Dialed In (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dialing-in-dialed-in-le-96). My SWLE didn't require any tweaking and my AS required adjusting the flippers.

So, my recent experience is Stern was the least effort, with CGC a close second, and JJP third. This doesn't mean that JJP builds a low quality product, it means they are having some challenges "dialing in" all the mechs (which shouldn't be surprising, since it's the most complex pin of the bunch). Stern has the advantage of building pinball machines for decades and their machines typically aren't on the bleeding edge of innovation.

My advice is either consider this a hobby and don't expect perfection out-of-the-gate or purchase from a local distributor that can help adjust and support the pinball. It's totally valid to be disappointed and hope CGC improves it's build process, however I wouldn't make purchasing decisions on it. Plan for getting your hands a little dirty. Even if your machine doesn't arrive with issues, it will develop issues soon enough. Pinball machines are NOT consumer devices...

snaroff

I am quite disappointed about this as well. I just received my LE and it seems to have the same issues. Its not like all of these games have already been built and issues are being found. These games are being manufactured right now. I would expect CGC to adjust these things instead of forcing all owners to do it themselves. It almost seems like they haven't even played the machine or they would have immediately seen some of these issues.

Don't get me wrong, I love the game, I am just disappointed. Its a ton of money to be disappointed.

I have had my SE since June. The shooter problem was present and being discussed on this forum back then. IMHO this should have been worked out prior to the LE’s being made.
Just asking a question, because I am not an operator.
Is it assumed that if you are an operator that a NIB machine will need to be disassembled in one way or another to repair before you can put it on location?

This was my first time installing Cliffys so it was somewhat of a mission. Should take about 1-2 hours if you're somewhat familiar.

Thank you Snaroff for your thorough and direct response. I will have to think about your perspective since I am someone in the "new generation" of pinballers. I feel that they will build the systems up the level we require them to. Does CGC not see their pins as consumer devices? Does it being a "hobby" mean we don't have a right to expect better? Please keep in mind this is in response to months of the same issues, not the first run. Again, thank you for being open to my perspective - know I appreciate yours as well.

Hi folks,

Please open support tickets to communicate with CGC on issues with your games. That’s the best way to make them aware of issues.

Marc

I got my game is September, not a single issue.

That is a great point - how many owners have opened tickets with CGC? I am not an owner as of yet, but have expressed my concerns directly with CGC.

I got my game is September, not a single issue.

Excellent input as well! Thanks!

Got 594 yesterday and had a neighbor help me set it up. Put the topper on this morning. Going to try and level it tonight and make some adjustments. This is my first time seeing AFMR in person and all I can say is wow. That bigger dmd is going to make we want to spend money for color dmd on my sterns now.

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You absolutely have the right to expect better! Pushing the respective pinball companies on this issue is right-minded. As mschonbrun states, open support tickets and make CGC aware of your issues. No argument at all! If they don't know about problems, they can't address them and/or improve the builds.

All that said, here is some food for thought. A remake like this is an interesting design space...MANY of the "mechs" are old, not re-designed. The plunger design on AFM is notorious for having this alignment problem. GNR uses a similar mech and has even more issues with the shooter. Folks who have more extensive collections have often seen these issues before. So even though you are purchasing a brand spanking new AFMr, the mechs *haven't* been redesigned or bullet-proofed for home/consumer usage. The electronics & boards are another issue. They have been totally reworked and will hopefully give you years of trouble-free usage, however that has yet to be seen.

snaroff

Mine was dead perfect outta the box, other than a couple preference tweaking it has been great. This is my only nib that needed nothing lol

Same for me. Mechanically, zero issues out of the box (LE-0196). Normal wear and tear stuff after that.

Hello again,

As I mentioned above, after posting here I reached out to CGC directly via their website. In no time at all Doug Skor, VP of CGC replied asking me to call him directly to discuss. I did call him and we had a very good conversation. I can tell he takes his business seriously, takes great pride in CGC, and puts a lot of confidence in their product. He earned my respect and business in the way he handled himself and my concerns. So I felt it necessary to adjust my expectations.

From the responses here and after talking with him (I let him know I would reference our call here) I have learned these things:
- CGC (and other manufacturers I am sure) expect it might take 2 hours to dial in your NIB pinball to your environment and even to get it to your personal liking.
- Pinball systems are designed and made to be tweaked to accommodate the variety of worldwide environments they are put in.
- Pinball systems are designed and made to be tweaked to accommodate the variety of players playing them.
- Those who are tweaking things like the alignment of flippers and plungers are more often players at a level that have a reason to demand more from their pins than I, or most casual players, probably will, and likewise expect to tweak accordingly.
- Not all owners are posters on this forum
- CGC takes issues and comments seriously and wants to provide a remarkable pinball experience
- Pinside is a great forum of great users (ok, I threw that last in)

There is much greater detail I could go into but I think this sums up the core points. And I know there are always exceptions. I still look forward to my LE and accept it may take some tweaking at first to make it all it can be based on the nature of the hobby and my current skills. While some may still disagree, I now feel that is fair based on my current understanding.

I am glad to see more posters saying how great theirs was out of the box but for those that it wasn't that way, I hope this helps.

Thanks for reading!

This part is a complete crock of BS.
Holding the left flipper down while plunging will begin the super skill shot.
This is a basic function of the machine, not an advanced one.
Furthermore, with respect to the auto plunging issue, frequently the ball doesn't even make it to the top of the orbit, and instead dribbles back down the right orbit.

These are absolutely the most basic of functions and is something that should be faced by owners as a one-off only.
The fact that so many of us are having the same issue, and that CGC didn't confirm to you that they have altered their build, addressing this issue, is purely ignorant in my opinion.

Overall, I would not suggest that you hold off on purchasing one of these games, as I expect the issues can be corrected, but know that Cliffys appear to be necessary, the ball launcher may need some adjusting, and that you'll likely have to replace the springs that control the flippers earlier than normal. At least.

Thanks for your input and perspective. Are cases being opened with CGC concerning these things? Thanks

I totally agree with this.

This I do not agree with. What do they expect you to do with the MMr that had no coin mech.’s, and no way to install them without rerouting the wiring harness? Seems like this was totally meant for the consumers, and not for location.

I have no issue with needing dial in a pin to your liking. The flipper strength settings fall under this for the most part. Although having them set so high at the factory as to cause balls flying off the tracks / air balls / etc is uncalled for. Turn them down to a decent setting and then tell me I can increase them to my personal preference.

Having balls fail to plunge correctly and requiring the owner to physically modify the machine to correct it does not fall under "dialing it in" in my opinion. That is a defect.

It seems there's a very critical eye towards CGC, adjusting a launch position is really that big of a deal? If Stern had the minor issues that VERY FEW of the CGC games seem to have they'd be hailed as the best built machines ever lol

We could sit here all day long and argue semantics (i.e. "defects vs. dialing-in"), but I prefer to solve problems.

As described above, I dialed-in my shooter plunger and now it's succeeding more than failing. Unfortunately, it still fails ~20% of the time.

Here is a slow motion video of it failing twice during the same plunge. In the first failure, the ball goes directly into the pops without going through the lanes. In the second failure (which is far more common), it just dribbles down the orbit without ever reaching the pops. If you download the video and view it frame-by-frame, you can see it's hitting the wireform above (which is why some folks have been suggesting "raising" the wireworm slightly with flat washers. I really want to avoid raising the wireform. At this point, I'm going to contact CGC to get their wisdom on this issue. At least, I now have a video that demonstrates the problem many of us have been experiencing.

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0dGzFCC1Gbcd7o

snaroff

semantics.. hahaha

So you consider adding extra hardware to raise the wire form dialing it in? We definitely have different definitions.

Hideeho

They do occasionally. They are busy. I ( a remake tech support guy ) try to keep up with them.

Yes, please. Then they can keep track if a continuing problem is there.

When you consider the exact number having issues compared to how many AFMR's are out there already. It is amazing there isn't more wrong. Especially when you factor in the shipping experience. Tech support remains extremely low on people getting their new pin.

Crap happens. No matter how good you build a game. And test before leaving the factory. You may need to tweak a thing or two.

Then open a ticket under Support at http://www.chicago-gaming.com/ or call. CGC has a lot invested in the remake projects, and they want happy customers. The less that have an issue or two, the better.

And from what I've seen of JJP, PPS/CGC, Stern, companies I have experience with, they continually beat Williams out of the box back in the DMD 1990's. I never uncrated a Williams pin that I didn't spend two or three days tweaking, fixing, replacing stuff just to get it working.

These are great times we are living in.

LTG : )

OK so what I am seeing here are two separate groups of people. There are those that have skills to just do a few small adjustments (shimming a ramp included) in a few minutes and having an amazing pinball machine that will stand the test of time. There are those of us that have limited skills (which is OK)
That feel that they shouldn't have to use a tool to set up their game to play properly. (valid concern) I feel that it is my moral obligation to help anyone that needs it to get their machine to play properly. I truly believe that CGC will get the MEMO and make some factory adjustments to take care of the quality control issue. We just need a little patients.

Bend it up a little. The weight of it may have brought it down a little in shipping. We are talking maybe 6 or 10 of these out of well over 500 games.

LTG : )

Hey Lloyd,

With all due respect, the wireform on my machine is aligned perfectly with the 2 plastic ramps and I don't think raising it is the correct solution (seems like a hack to me).

I've studied the video I posted frame-by-frame and the problem is keeping the ball from going airborne after the plunge. I've already adjusted the plunger and my shooter is 80% better.

To get the last 20%, my current theory is the stainless shooter lane ramp has too much pitch (contributing to the ball bumping into the wireform). Pushing it down and reducing the pitch seems to improve things. Will continue down this path until the Chicago support guys contact me. I sent them an email, since the ticket system on the website wasn't working for me.

I added a video that shows how much "play" is in the shooter lane ramp. Don't know if it is suppose to be this loose. If not, might be something really simple...like a missing screw. Wish I had my HEP AFM here to compare it with...oh well.

snaroff