This is an opinion that varies from person to person. I too have had a large collection with all of these. I like the term "staying power". IMHO MM and AFM have the most staying power. (one of the reasons they are ranked as high as they are in the polls) These games are great anchor games for a small to midsized collection. I also have a SS that is HUO that I have had for over 12yrs. I really like it when someone says that its too easy and gets old quick. I will ask them how many times have they been "Spider Champion" (one of the hardest achievements in pinball) Since now you can pick up a MMR or a AFMr and soon a MBr for a decent price, (or maybe a nice original) it's a slam dunk in my book to own all three!

This is what I was told by my dealer! ???? The dealers do not know what is going on. (or at least some of them) This looks bad on CGC. If you have a plan for distributing a solution to a problem that includes all the dealers, please include the dealers in the plan! Or just send the chip your customers that filled out and turned in the warranty card.

Yeah this is really confusing. Wonder why some dealers are all over it and some are clueless?

They have made their position on that clear. 2nd owner pins are not warrantable. Now what they say and what they do could be two different things entirely. I also have been served in the past on certain warranty issues with a 2nd owner pin by other manufacturers on their products so it does happen in the industry.

Yes good, they should know. I do not have this issue but IMHO you should wait for their guidance on what to do about it.

Welcome to the owner's thread!

The video mode is a random (luck sack) mode from the SOL. From my experience it has been a bit more illusive then other luck items such as the start attack wave, hold bonus and luck points. Just remember that when the cows come up on Big O Beam and Tractor Beam to hit your launch button! Then when you finally get your video mode, you get a surprise!
I would check your left wireform side adjustment Make sure the ball is being dropped straight down on the inlane and not hitting the rail.

Hey Miknan, You might try soldiering those pins to the wires instead of crimping. I had to do that because I am blind in one eye. (cant see out of the other)
Those pins are small man.

You guys wont regret this. It's an amazing light show that's second to none!

This is not a suggestion Mike!

I guess it depends on what you consider fixed and if that is a chunk of cabinet missing or piece of the decal. The best that I can think of (beyond replacing that cabinet decal) is to take the piece of the decal, glue it back in there and touch it up with a black sharpie. Wont be perfect but it might make it so you don't notice it if you don't know it is there.

Thanks for posting this.

Maybe a way to test this is to go to lamp test and light each one of those. If the condition exist under the test, then it is as you say just light deflection from the other LEDs not ghosting. Maybe then he should try a lower insert light setting.

So I played around with mine and dropped the insert LED setting to Min. It made a difference on the "Light Bleed Over" .

You mean a mechanical adjustment right? Why do want to adjust them?

Agreed! What I am observing, is that the dimpling and the scratches (vertical lines) seem to be more visible due to the High Gloss Clear Coat and the LED lighting. I do believe the dimples will even out over time so I am not worried. I just think that what people are seeing is more visible now with the way the PFs
are clear coated. I have the same dimples vertical lines in my MM they are just not as visible. I can see these issues as being deal breakers for some high profile future buyers. Not a big issue for me.

Man that stinks! Defective wire form.

Yeah an overnight fix! Get some of that 3m clear epoxy. Mix it up and put a small glob on that weld. That should hold you til you get your new wireform.

I guess when you remake a game you also remake some problems.

This is an opinion. I have several "Finely Tuned" originals that I have owned for over 12 years. I don't agree. My AFMr LE will play just as good and it has improved cabinet and lighting just to name a few. There have been several people that have both the AFM original and the remake and say they cannot tell the difference between the game play. All my games play uniquely different so you can only compare them to each other so much...

My trapping on the AFMr improved by just changing the flipper rubbers to Titan Comp Silicone. So a machines trapping ability changes with what parts are installed and a player's ability. My flippers on AFMr do feel different from my MM and SS. My SS flippers feel very different than all of the Williams games. They have a more gentle feel. (so to speak) My CC flippers feel more like the AFMr. (I really don't know why)

Yeah the Titans minimize the ball bounce on a raised flipper giving much improved control over original rubber(black) and even Super Bands.

Flipper power too high. I turned my settings down. no more air balls. No remake is going to play exactly like an original but they can play as good. (this is an opinion) But games don't all play alike anyway original or not.

Pictures please.

My Mantis appears to be just slightly higher still. It appears that it needs to be almost flush tocompletely protect the hole.

998CB113-8ABF-4584-BD41-400B158387B2 (resized).jpeg

The clear coat is definitely thicker on the remakes.

Yeah this one is an early build.

Maybe time for a cliffy. I didn't do mine either because I just don't like the way they look. I did the mother ship hole because of the RAW abuse it sees and you cant really see the cliffy. I was inspired not to do the SOL hole by a guy who bought one of these to operate and he had almost 2000 plays with no damage. His was an early build and the Mantis was almost flush on the pf.

I used Mylar there. Haven't had any issues yet!

There have been several on here as of late. The ones I have seen fitting your criteria have been going for around $8500 but they are gone in sixty seconds.
There have been others but they are players condition (scratched some wear) they are a bit cheaper but require work to get them in the condition your looking for. There is one of those on DCL now. You would end up putting more money into one those than necessary then just waiting for a nice one. The MM your talking about is going to go up in value soon due to the renewed interest as of late.

pinlawyer in AZ sold his and it was gone quick. richyrich picked up one in CA for $8500 also having it sent AU. They do show up but not for long....

And your the style of customer that is going to be the one that continues to buy these games. These remakes are just not for the die hard meticulous collectors. The AFMrLE is close because of all of the added features that are limited. But when I look at my playfield and see all the vertical lines in it, It just isn't collector quality to me. And I don't think it was intended to be. There is a very large market for this type game. It will be interesting to see if it continues to grow or stagnate and retract.

This is true. There is no perfection. But everyone has their idea of good quality in a game. The play field is a sensitive area for the avid collector. I am both a collector and a player. My theory with the pf lines is the dimpling from normal play over time will tone down your ability to see the lines in the pf. It will even things out and it all will become less noticeable. I have been known to use play field protectors and this is the reason why I did not use one here. In fairness when comparing these remakes to the originals, the originals had serious problems of their own. The AFM design had major wear issues with the SOL and mother ship holes. Monster Bash had Drac Trac wear issues and Mosh Pit hole wear issues as well. Not to mention the decal issues on the cabinet. The remakes will solve these problems making it attractive to buy the remake instead of an original that needs major attention for them to look and play properly.

Yes, but in all fairness, it is not happening on every game. That doesn't make it right for the owner's of the games that did chip. None of us want to see chipping on our play fields.

Thank You for posting this!

There is always an advantage in having a local dealer. It really depends on what kind of local support you need. If you can fix and adjust your own game, order parts or mods online then you don't need to depend heavily on your dealer. Otherwise they are a lifeline. This machine does not really need lots of dealer support. Once it is setup and adjusted, it's good to go.

Yes they are. I went from Superbands to Titan. Titan rubber is different. The Titan rubbers trap better by providing less bounce back when the ball hit the flipper bat. The Superbands when the ball hits the flipper can bounce into the outlane.

Wow that is profound! What the hell happened there. Nobody even owns this game yet!

It depends on what you want. The LE offers a lot more options than the classic or an original. ( topper, mirror blades, saucer upgrade, shaker, number and badge, armor, warranty extension) Better playfield.... just kidding.

My personal opinion: if you can get a nice original for the same price as a classic and you do not care about the LE options, go for the original!

I love those target decals! Where did you get those?

It's probably your left guide. See if you can loosen it up and move it a bit to guide the ball over the flipper.

OK what about the flipper shaft bushing? Can it be moved or remounted so the flipper will move a bit? Beyond that you will have to take some measurements
to see where that hole is. I cant believe the factory would drill that hole wrong.

Well we don’t scare easily here so they can PM whatever and we will expose it.

Well Said Damien! There is an issue here. Especially if the chipping, planking, sand scratches are not consistant with the games that have been delivered.

Yes to a point. I did not put a cliffy on my SOL 400 games in no chipping or damage. There is at least one operator that a has posted 2000 plays with no chipping. I installed a cliffy on the mother ship hole, but thats it. I have no chipping. What we have here is an issue with one or two games. There is some planking, some chipping, some sand scratches on different games. They just need to be looked into and handled by CGC.

My point exactly. It is a problem that is game specific.

This is out of context. The discussion was not about the Mantis, all of the AFMR have the Mantis. The discussion was about chipping on one game! Read the threads. And I have no idea where you came up with 90s W/B playfields. That was not in our discussion at all. That is a totally different discussion for a different day.

This is not the issue. And it was not stated as such. Also it was very clearly stated at the beginning of this discussion that the issues were game specific. Not product wide. We are only talking about a few games here. This IS what a forum is for! Making folks aware of an issue when it comes up on a particular game.
There is no slander toward the manufacturer. This is pinball. Things like this are going to happen. And we are going to talk about them here!

I think we should give CGC a chance to resolve the issues before we pass judgment. Yes I know we should not have had to deal with this for the cost. But CGC has shown the willingness to address the issues in a timely fashion. Play field issues stink period. Planking on a new game seems ridiculous! But it happens and it really depends on how it is handled by the CGC. I look forward to buying the next remake but if people are going to get stuck with a playfield with planking, chipping, warping or sand scratches, I will spend my money on a nice original or something else.

I would. Even just to talk to them about it.

That is cool! Do tell!

Here is Mine! 1996 Mars Attacks

5087DCA1-2BA7-4AE6-96A1-8CE162C40142 (resized).jpeg

Thanks for posting this mine was loose.

Very Cool! They are usually pretty snappy with getting things fixed!

This is starting to happen a lot now. People are concerned that the remakes are not going to go the distance that the originals did. A couple of sticking points I have heard are the clear coat that is used on the play field is not holding up. I have seen four games now Colorado that have planking. It is concerning because you just do not know if is going to get worse years down the road. The owners of some of these games are panicking and selling them. Other are playing a wait and see attitude to see what CGC is going to do or not going to do. The other concern is the light boards and repairing them down the road. So far the light boards seem to working just fine. I am going to wait and see how things are going to be handled.

I think discussing these issues here on this thread is not only important, but necessary. Some guys games are perfect, Great good for you Don't worry be happy! Happy Flipping! Hope your still flipping 10 years down the road! But for some folks things are not up to speed yet. Hopefully these guy's issues will be handled in a timely fashion!

That is a fact! Lets see what happens when the smoke clears!

So it would seem!

Supposed to be here Saturday!

Remove the launch ramp (metal two screws) Bend the ramp at the crease (against the crease essentially smoothing out the bump in the ramp) reinstall. It prevents the ball from jumping off the ramp and hitting the wire form.

Lets have some real data on that first before we tell people not to do this.

I think it is common sense. If you have a launch problem( ball is not making it up to the lanes or around on the Skill Shot) bend the ramp as per CGC. If not do nothing......

I would also check your shooter alignment (ball to shooter solenoid geometry) I had to bend that shooter a bit to get it to hit the ball in the middle. Once I did that, it would launch stronger but then the ball would hit that "speed bump" on launch ramp and hit the wire form even more. Once I bent the speed bump out of the ramp, everything worked normally. Anything less than 100% is unacceptable in my book!

yes! CGC has a written procedure if you are needing one.

UH you might want to leave that protector on.....

If you do not have any pf issues now then I would not worry about them showing up under a pf protector. Protectors are controversial on here. (some like em so don't for different reasons) I have one on my CC and it plays just fine, but I don't have one on any of my other games. So don't let anyone try to super impose their opinions on you about protectors. You make the choice if they are worth it or not.

ONCE AGAIN! This is an opinion! Your opinion. Lets let the guy decide for himself huh!

What I am told is CGC does not offer Cliffy's with the games due to purists. However even though I do not use Cliffys all the time due to how they make the game look (like you are hiding something) , I do not consider myself a "purist" (maybe I really am one) I think it would be nice to just have them included not installed. But wouldn't that be like admitting that your play fields are weak or don't hold up in the long run? hmmm....

Not to mention the inconsistency. You would think that this process would be a no brainer by now. It's almost like their playin around with the chemistry still.

I never new this! Thank you posting that.

I am not saying you should not use the plated balls but, When I got my MM it had Brass ones in it (gold) they eventually started sheading (plating coming off)
Not Good! There was metal plating everywhere. I took me awhile to get it all out of there and I still will see a flake or two once in awhile. The balls will hit each other and it just hammers that plate job! The balls that the games come with are polished steel for a reason.

Man, what a shame to have to do this with a brand new game! I know there are some guys that have extra play fields for each and every one of their games. But those are originals.

Well they had better get it together if they are going to sell enough of these remakes! They can start by taking care of their loyal customers so that they are return customers. I think there are more people watching here than we or they may realize.

Don't blame you a bit for feeling like that. I believe this issue is whats driving people to just pick up a nice original or a different game. I am on the fence right now on purchasing another remake. I was planning on getting a MBr but with the playfield issues the originals had, I can't say I can count on CGC to remaster that game. That pf needs serious remastering (improvements) otherwise it will do the same thing the original did. Now the clear coat seems to be a problem. I restored a MB I know what needs to be done to that pf to have a reliable machine. The originals had warping problems too. That game will need a real solid clear coat system to go the distance. Especially around the Drac Trac! Of course you could buy one and buy a pf from Micro and just throw it in there from the start. Or buy a pf protector and put it on right out of the box.

Some have issues that have been resolved, some have no issues, some have issues that haven't been resolved. There are individuals that are posting that have no issues and there are individuals that are posting that have issues and there are individuals that have issues that are not posting! What is posted here is just a small sample of what is really happening.

This is the result from the ball spinning mostly. If it happens off the ramp (ball drops into the inlane then magically moves up and into the outlane), it usually can be fixed by adjusting the wireform (moving the ramp in away from the bumper post) I had this happening on my Champion Pub on both sides. It really got my wife riled up as that is her favorite game. Try moving the wire form ramp around a bit to get the ball to drop right the middle of the inlane!

We are still waiting for the correction part
Then we can move on.

Are you going to put them on right away or save em?

You should have a look at some of the original AFM Play Fields that have lots of plays. The Mother Ship hole is blown out. No difference here. Some things on AFMr are remade some are remastered (improved) The mother ship hole is not one of them. It WILL get damaged history has proven such. That is why I installed a cliffy there. (the only place I installed one) Yes I agree Cliffys change the difficulty of those hole shots, but its a good trade for no damage there. Your Game Play is already changed with the Mantis on SOL! Not trying to sell you something here just simple logic.

Yay! It looks awesome! Nice job!

Yep! You Bet! If you don't like crappy quality playfields sell your game and don't buy anymore remakes or any other new in the box game! That is exactly the point! It also is a heads up to the guys that stop by here to get the latest info on a game they may want to buy! I have figured out that there is no NIB game that doesn't come with some risk. There are a lot of folks that believe that buying a NIB game means you get a new perfect game! You might or might not.

Planking usually happens when there is a change in humidity. The wood itself cracks and lifts.

Maybe it started out that way and got worse as it cured. It may end up as planking if it continues to get worse. I am sure CGC will want to replace it as I cant believe they want one of their customers to have a brand new game looking like that.

So according to Doug all the LEs are done. Does anyone know if they have sold out?

I was just curious. I think its been a year to build them.

Yep! I saw a game that was at the local dealer that had the same condition! Poor prep is what these guys are saying. If thats true it looks really bad on the manufacturer. If it is something related to the dry climate here in Colorado I would think that CGC would want to send that customer a pf just as a test to see if it happens to a pristine pf that has no issues.

Should be the same as the original. I P D

I Hope not. But if this is the new standard of excellence, we need to make sure everyone knows it.

No Your not off base and if your playfield looks like that you should be pissed.

It seems buying a used game is the way to go. No mystery purchase! You go, you look, you play, you buy. If you get unforseen issues, Blame Yourself.

Your playfield is nice and smooth!

This Play field looks terrible! I cant believe this is a new game. What is the update with this? You opened a ticket right?

You are having the issue he is talking about. Your launch ramp is causing your ball to jump up and hit the wire form at the end. You need to follow CGC's procedure on removing the launch ramp and bending it at the crease in the opposite direction (taking out the speed bump) so the ball doesn't jump up and hit the wire form. That is why it is not making it to the top.

Maybe you will get a nice play field....

....And you will like it! Complaint Dept. 555-5555 Don't call us we will call you!

This is a good idea! Just buy an extra pf so you change it out. You could send it over to Kruzman and have it done right! How much is a new pf? It definitely solves the chipping and grainy play field problems.

BEER!

If your problems are small, ( launch issue, plastics issue, solenoid board pic issue, topper issue, glass rattle,) CGC is very quick and responsive to resolve the issues according to the warranty agreement you purchased with your new game. If your problems are larger however, (degenerative play field issues like chipping, Grainy clear coat, color) CGC has been much slower to respond with mixed signals and resolutions. If they could just take this last step to resolve the more difficult issues then their brand would be superior IMHO to other manufacturers and their warranty programs and behaviors.

I will be very excited to see MBr! I am really wanting this one and I know there a lot of others also that are eager for the new reveal. MB is my wife's favorite I already have the approval of the Boss! Just waiting to see how things pan out on the pf issues for the Green light. I am also very excited about CCr! Especially how they do the software and options! Maybe some cool video modes!