(Topic ID: 101269)

"ATTAAAACK!!!" No Good Gofers Club. All welcome.

By Marten

9 years ago


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  • 2,133 posts
  • 291 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 47 hours ago by GoldenBear
  • Topic is favorited by 111 Pinsiders

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#1552 2 years ago
Quoted from JT-Pinball:

What I need from someone or maybe someones.... are the pictures and experience to reassemble this bad boy since I didn’t take it apart and have no pictures.... thanks for any help on this.

I rebuilt a No Good Gofers about three to four years ago. I didn't restore it. I only rebuilt all the assemblies with a top side rebuild. No playfield restoration was performed. I have the images from this work but I would have to find them and sort them. Unfortunately I do not have the machine available to me. It is out on loan at a friend's place. He's not too far away if I absolutely need to view it.

To start with I would look at available images of the complete playfield and try to piece the puzzle together. The manual is also helpful in what goes where. Study the manual and read it - several times. I have found that the manual contains a lot of the information required to assemble a machine. Pay particular attention to the list of playfield parts and assemblies. Lots of great information there.

If you get stuck and need help you can either take it offline (message me) or keep it public and post it here. I think the back and forth would clutter up the thread though.

3 months later
#1677 2 years ago
Quoted from SimplePin:

Thanks for the tip. Also glad to know that the part is available if needed. I'll check the joints first.

Great Lakes Modular is no longer around. The website is still up but the business is not fulfilling orders.

Looks like Marco has some old GLM boards still in stock.

This board should be fairly easy to reproduce if needed.

1 year later
#1807 1 year ago
Quoted from GoldenBear:

Can someone take a pic of the connections between j2 and j139 and j137?

If you want a potentially faster response, consider posting images of what you have.

#1809 1 year ago
Quoted from GoldenBear:

Yeah I figured that but I have something completely different as my smaller board does not connect as listed in the schematics . When I trace things out by schematic it looks like there are 2 wires going to one spot on the connector on the main power board which i definitely don’t have. I’m not certain if it matters. I’ll just work and figure things out. Thanks for the suggestion.

I am curious to see what crazy stuff people do. Sometimes, it's mind-blowing.

#1812 1 year ago
Quoted from GoldenBear:

I think those cables are really just grounds and power to the small board and I just started troubleshooting this board and i think I can do some simple things first before rebuilding the connector. Not that rebuilding the connectors would be difficult, but I am thinking maybe the reason the connector was rebuilt is that my games main driver board has issues and this was a workaround.

The images you posted are the power inputs to the Auxiliary 8-Driver board as well as the main Power Driver board. I don't see anything incorrect about your connectors and they look to be factory. Those attached sticky labels are factory.

00_w95_auxiliary_8-driver_power.jpg00_w95_auxiliary_8-driver_power.jpg01_w95_power_driver_auxiliary_8-driver_connections.jpg01_w95_power_driver_auxiliary_8-driver_connections.jpg

Quoted from GoldenBear:

it might be an opto issue despite no flickering or any way to provoke the issue in the switch matrix nor any other problems with all the other switches , however after replacing all the optos, the connector, the 10 opto board and all connectors leading to the opto board the issue persists.

It does sound more like an opto issue rather than an issue with Auxiliary 8-Driver board.

Quoted from GoldenBear:

I swapped in a new RD cpu board, I have tried 2 different main driver boards from my other machines, and I replaced all the ribbon cables and the CPU Rom all to no avail. I also tested all diodes and replaced just in case about a third of them on all switches. I activated all switches while in switch test mode and was unable to create any issues with the opto in question.

Have you considered a problem with the +12VU (unregulated +12V circuit)? This is used by the 16-opto board as well as the Auxiliary 8-Driver board. Often, modifications (mods) to the system tap this as a power source and this causes an excessive draw on the circuit and results in the voltage level sagging. When this happens, it can interfere with opto functionality.

Quoted from GoldenBear:

It looks like the 8 driver board controls the right upper flasher so I might look at the schematic to see if it is possible that a faulty 8 driver board could cause this or more easily just disconnect the connectors to the flasher and see if the problems follow, which I have yet to do as simple as that is.

Extremely unlikely. The flashers on this board are under software control. When things go wrong on this board, it's more likely to be complete failure (flasher does not work or is locked on). Errant flashing (under incorrect circumstances) is more likely to be errant input to the software causing errant response.

Quoted from GoldenBear:

The 8 driver board is connected to connector j134 and j136

The manual lists J137 but J136 and J137 are ground. They are identical. Note the board also separates "power ground" and "signal ground" but they are tied (and used) together as a single common ground reference.

#1815 1 year ago
Quoted from GoldenBear:

I have considered this as voltages at connector to right upper opto is approx 11.5 volts but figured swapping in 2 different functioning power driver boards and a new opto board might take care that. That is an assumption however and you know what they say about assumptions.

It is possible (but not extremely likely) that your functioning power boards have a problem with the +12VU but the problem only manifests under load. The 16-opto board places a bigger load on the +12VU circuit than either the 10-opto or 7-opto board. Each opto transmitter draws 0.04A (40mA) and they add up quickly.

Starting with +11.5VDC is not high enough. It should be in the order of +14VDC. Check your AC ripple on this circuit. It's possible there is excessive AC ripple and the smoothing capacitor needs to be replaced.

Quoted from GoldenBear:

Oh yeah and I have no mods

This helps a lot for the load reasons mentioned above.

#1818 1 year ago
Quoted from GoldenBear:

if I’m gonna work on a board it won’t be the one I have on machine now as that was entirely functioning in another game of mine.

Each game places its own load (draw) on the circuits. If the board is performing to specification, it should be able to handle the load. If the board is out of specification (partial failure), the different loads may or may not expose the failure.

Quoted from GoldenBear:

I wish I had a bench tester for boards as it would make things so much easier.

Bench testing is good for logic functionality but doesn't place the load of the machine on the boards. I have tester boards available but there are also other manufacturers that provide this testing functionality. It really depends on what you want to test and how you want to test it. These testers are good to answer the question "is it on the board or is it in the playfield?".

#1821 1 year ago
Quoted from GoldenBear:

Certainly tester boards come in handy for figuring where the issue is coming from, thus why I also swapped boards in from other machines (poor man’s tester board). Once you know where the problems lie you can narrow down the electronic issue

Agree 100%. Board swapping is a good quick differential diagnosis method.

Quoted from GoldenBear:

For me, Bench testing would just make it easier to test each component for things like AC ripple and might make it easier to rebuild the flawed components. so if I swap out a capacitor and the voltage is still low I can go to the voltage regulator etc. without having to pop it back in the machine which is a bit of a hassle and a harder work surface. If the voltage is low not under stress, it certainly will not perform under stress
I have not done the quantity nor quality of work that you have by any stretch so I may be wrong, but that was my thinking

You can bench test power. For rectification you will need an appropriate transformer secondary. This will allow you to measure the AC ripple on the bench. You can deduce there is potential AC ripple if the DC voltage is lower than the expected value. If you replace the capacitor and the DC voltage goes up that's good evidence, but it's not proof. Proof would be to re-install the failed capacitor and see the reduced voltage. A repeatable experiment. Of course, that's not practical and not worth doing but it's what a true scientific experiment would entail.

Without wanting to go the full Monty with this, the next best thing is to actually measure AC ripple before you replace any components. It could also be the rectifier that has partially failed. It's a full wave rectifier and half of it may have failed. I like to measure before I do any work to know what my baseline is so that I know what has changed after I do my work.

6 months later
#1979 7 months ago
Quoted from ezatnova:

Trying to understand what “solenoid secondary” really means for this game, since that’s the F108 fuse that keeps blowing.

Quoted from SimplePin:

I'll figure out what "solenoid secondary" is in the meantime.

wpc95_solenoid_secondary.jpgwpc95_solenoid_secondary.jpg

2 weeks later
#1994 6 months ago
Quoted from allsportdvd:

Anyone know where this plug goes under the playfield?

00_ngg_playfield_wiring.jpg00_ngg_playfield_wiring.jpg01_ngg_switch_matrix.jpg01_ngg_switch_matrix.jpg02_ngg_2-opto_board.jpg02_ngg_2-opto_board.jpg

#2004 6 months ago

I'd suggest cleaning the slotted optos. I assume the software determines the wheel "direction" (output) by checking the switches (input). If the software isn't getting accurate input then it won't make an accurate determination of state.

#2008 6 months ago
Quoted from jrcmlc:

any other thoughts?

Run the wheel test (assuming there is one) after you get the failure and see what it reports. I haven't seen my NGG for years now. It's been on "permanent" loan to a friend who moved it upstairs so I haven't bothered to bring it back into the annual local show rotation.

After that, I can only think that it might be a software bug. I am running v1.0 but there's a v1.3 out there. It's not unknown for WMS software to have bugs. This game in particular is likely "unfinished" since the trough expects 6 balls but the game only utilizes 4 at any one time. An example of an "errant error" is IJ. Early versions of the software report a drop target failure but the failure is due to interrupted high power so the software is unable to reset the drop targets at POST and incorrectly assumes the drop target solenoids are at fault when in fact, the power is interrupted.

2 months later
#2055 4 months ago
Quoted from SimplePin:

Advance jets standup. They light in sequence.

This is a feature of almost all Pat Lawlor games. The pop bumper lamps in his games are controlled (part of the lamp matrix). Most other designers have games where the pop bumper lamps are part of the GI (general illumination).

I am fairly sure it relates to how many points you score when the pop bumper is "hit". An unilluminated one scores minimum. An illuminated one scores more and a flashing one scores maximum.

You will see this in games such as Whirlwind, The Addams Family and Twilight Zone (the ones I am immediately familiar with) as well. All Pat Lawlor games.

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