Quoted from dougram69:

Loyd is right. I found one specific vendor out west somewhere who seemed to have lots of Addams parts. He even had a NGG nos playfield I bought from him. This one specific vendor hand picked the lot and knew what parts went bad. He had many things everyone was looking for. His prices escalated weekly as his inventory eventually dried up. These distributors were far a few though. Locally, Romero at Mazco had some decent inventory for a short time. American vending had some stuff as well but was hard to get Robert at the parts counter to just look for stuff. He had to pull parts so he couldn’t waste a lot of time. About a year into this and those inventories dried up fast.
Thanks
Dougram

Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

It’s all good now, let’s wait for some pictures!! I want to see these walk throughs of the legendary, dilapidated, massive, rotten collection!
Also this reminds me, what the hell is the deal? We have Kingpin nearing production, BBB got remade, Pinball Circus is getting completely rebuild to Python specs, and people are cleaning up other games that never got finished. Yet one of the big “elephant in the room” prototypes that was nearly finished, we haven’t seen hide nor hair of: Wizard Blocks.
There are FIVE white woods and nobody has gotten ahold of any to make a drop in P2K kit yet???
You could reinvent the wheel and modernize P2K, but there are plenty of them out there still earning well and now that Nucore exists a WB kit seems more feasible than it was 10 years ago.
SOMEONE GET ON THIS!

Quoted from dougram69:

Just for some clarity.
Chad - The parts guy at Atlas was Romero not Fernando. He was a big, tall Latin guy with a real deep voice. He used to answer the phone "Romero Here". He got cancer real bad later on. I went into the location one day and didn't even recognize him. He had lost so much weight and lost his hair completely. He passed shortly there after. Just to reminisce for a second, Romero was a super guy. He came off real rough at first like Steve Young. I got to talk to him so much he got friendly later on. In Oct of 1999 I bought a CV pin, and the plastic covering the DMD was bent real bad. It got caught on the mini play-field like they all do, and got bent upward. I was having a real tough time finding the part number in the book. He tried looking it up a few times and thought he had it. When the ordered parts came it was the wrong plastic. He then gave me the phone number to the Williams parts lady directly. I called her an explained what was happening. She helped me track down the right part number, and I then had Romero order the right plastic for me. In Nov, I got a beat Scared Stiff. I needed a play-field bad. The VUK hole was blown out. I called the lady at Williams on a lark. I asked her if they had this play-field and she said no. She then said hold on let me check by sub assembly part number. She cam back after ten minutes and said they had one NOS SS play-field as a sub assembly. This had all the holes drilled ready for install, (more than the blank has), all intended mylar applied and all t-nuts applied. It's pulled right before it goes into assembly and into a game from what she indicated. She said to me, have your distributor order it right away as it's the only one. In addition, if you are ever going to need anything else order it now. I wasn't getting the last statement at first, and then realized what it meant. I was able to get some stuff out of Williams before they closed. Mostly for SS, CV and TZ. If it wasn't for Romero, this would have never happened. God rest his soul.
I also don't recall any shopping cart. The place had a small counter in front, and small metal rack behind the counter with all the pinball game specific parts. Wasn't much to go through. Some SWE1 plastics, and few ramps and that was it. To the left was a window where Romero sat in his office. Down the long hallway were other offices, and one area with Billiard tables and a few Foosball games on display. It wasn't set up to walk around with a cart. Are you possibly thinking of Mazco or American vending?
To Mr. Bally Australia, these are the actual conversations I had with Gene and Kim. If you read all my posts closely, you will find my retelling of when Williams games manufacturing was offered to Gene way before you had it, and he passed on it. Go back and read all my posts before you start telling everyone what they lived through was bullshit. Please try and contribute constructively. I never saw any contracts, just retelling of my experiences with the principal parties. If you have more detail, then share it and help make this community better informed. To just say this is bullshit and I know more is childish.
Dougram

Quoted from dougram69:

Just for some clarity.
Chad - The parts guy at Atlas was Romero not Fernando. He was a big, tall Latin guy with a real deep voice. He used to answer the phone "Romero Here". He got cancer real bad later on. I went into the location one day and didn't even recognize him. He had lost so much weight and lost his hair completely. He passed shortly there after. Just to reminisce for a second, Romero was a super guy. He came off real rough at first like Steve Young. I got to talk to him so much he got friendly later on. In Oct of 1999 I bought a CV pin, and the plastic covering the DMD was bent real bad. It got caught on the mini play-field like they all do, and got bent upward. I was having a real tough time finding the part number in the book. He tried looking it up a few times and thought he had it. When the ordered parts came it was the wrong plastic. He then gave me the phone number to the Williams parts lady directly. I called her an explained what was happening. She helped me track down the right part number, and I then had Romero order the right plastic for me. In Nov, I got a beat Scared Stiff. I needed a play-field bad. The VUK hole was blown out. I called the lady at Williams on a lark. I asked her if they had this play-field and she said no. She then said hold on let me check by sub assembly part number. She cam back after ten minutes and said they had one NOS SS play-field as a sub assembly. This had all the holes drilled ready for install, (more than the blank has), all intended mylar applied and all t-nuts applied. It's pulled right before it goes into assembly and into a game from what she indicated. She said to me, have your distributor order it right away as it's the only one. In addition, if you are ever going to need anything else order it now. I wasn't getting the last statement at first, and then realized what it meant. I was able to get some stuff out of Williams before they closed. Mostly for SS, CV and TZ. If it wasn't for Romero, this would have never happened. God rest his soul.
I also don't recall any shopping cart. The place had a small counter in front, and small metal rack behind the counter with all the pinball game specific parts. Wasn't much to go through. Some SWE1 plastics, and few ramps and that was it. To the left was a window where Romero sat in his office. Down the long hallway were other offices, and one area with Billiard tables and a few Foosball games on display. It wasn't set up to walk around with a cart. Are you possibly thinking of Mazco or American vending?
To Mr. Bally Australia, these are the actual conversations I had with Gene and Kim. If you read all my posts closely, you will find my retelling of when Williams games manufacturing was offered to Gene way before you had it, and he passed on it. Go back and read all my posts before you start telling everyone what they lived through was bullshit. Please try and contribute constructively. I never saw any contracts, just retelling of my experiences with the principal parties. If you have more detail, then share it and help make this community better informed. To just say this is bullshit and I know more is childish.
Dougram

Quoted from Methos:

Thanks to everyone who for sharing your stories and pictures. I only dealt with IPB one time, in that I ordered a part and there were on issues. While it's starting to fill in a few pieces for those of us that came in without ever meeting Gene, one area that doesn't seem to get covered is the demise of IBP.What caused his financial ruin, how about did the assets get sold off, who got them, and what happened to all of his machines?

Quoted from metallik:

Yea, at a minimum Gene owed Mike Pacak a game in return for parts Mike provided to Gene. Gene stiffed Mike and that was the end of Gene's attendance at pinball expo. All Gene had to do was deliver Mike's game and he's be welcome again... obviously that never happened.
Instead, I was with Mike at Kennywood one day when he got a call from his guy at the Westin that Gene had booked space in the same hotel for his pinball show at the same time as Expo. Mike just about drained a cellphone battery shutting that shit down pronto, and Gene had to move his show down the street to the no-tell-motel.

Quoted from dougram69:

Ok guys. Reading this is just bringing back more and more memories of my time there. What I say below is not elaborated. These are facts as I witnessed them.
Gene Gene The Dancing Machine (Tidbits About Gene Himself and BBB)
To understand Gene, you have to understand his philosophy and how he worked. People just didn't get it, and after trying to work with him, found themselves at a disadvantage. Lots of stories about this already. Understand that Gene ALWAYS tried to pay someone or reimburse someone for their time without paying cash out of pocket. It was always a barter system or a carat he would dangle in front of you. This way he would get what he wanted, not have to pay you much to keep your work going, and then have the outcome he wanted. I saw this first hand. However, on the flipside, he and Kim were super nice to me all the time I was there, and my compensation was clear and tracked. I made sure to deal with Kim on that aspect after hearing stories from others. Kim always held up their end and were super nice to me. They really did try and treat me like family and I appreciated it.
Someone in a previous post nailed it about the workers there. The people working at IPB were always family members with no interest in pinball, folks who were on the cusp of society and near homeless, or friends needing a paycheck. One of his standard things was to offer folks a place to live while working there. He would let them stay in one of his slum properties, and that counted as part of their compensation. I remember one time there was a guy who was seal coating the blacktop one day, then was working on the roof, and lastly was asked to come in a pick and count parts. Then there were others who had worked there so long, they knew exactly where everything was, and kept the place going. It was a real mix of characters.
I also remember one time I was invited to their Christmas party. It was a combination of IPB workers, and other workers who did stuff for Gene. These two guys were outside with me on the porch and were smashed drunk. Smoking with one hand and drinking with the other. The one guys says to the other, the only thing that would make this night better is if we had pistols. The other guy says, damn yeah, we could shoot them off in the air and no one would bother us cause it's Christmas. (Hand to god this happened.) I swear I couldn't stop laughing. These guys were dead serious.
BBB - It Almost Killed Gene and He Definitely Lost Money
I'm jumping ahead a bit but here are some tidbits about BBB. Gene always wanted to make a pinball machine. It didn't matter what game it was, he just wanted to be able to say he made games. He himself told me this one night at dinner. When he left from the table, Kim filled me in on the history. He had accomplished everything he wanted to do from a collecting standpoint, but always felt like he was somewhat of an outsider to the guys working at Williams. At the Expo dinner, these guys would go on about designing this game, being the head of this department at Williams, and other guys being recognized for lifetime achievements. You got to remember Gene was 100% ego. He always had to be the center of attention and the guy on top. Especially in front of Georgianna. His goal was to make a game no matter what. He tried this when he bought Capcom and tried making a game called Pool Player. Someone showed the flyer. This was right when Williams closed and he bought the parts rights. He bailed on that venture and focused on the parts business. Choosing BBB was just because he had all architecture diagrams, list of parts, etc. He thought it would be an easy thing. Money started flowing in from the parts business, Kim was handling the store, so he ventured out to make his game and his mark. This is fact right from Gene.
Note, jumping ahead again but here are some headaches during BBB, that added to his stress level and caused him to have a heart attack. Gene wanted church hill cabinets to run the playfields and cabinets. CHC did not want to do this for him and deal with 150 to 200 playfields. Small run for them and not worth their time. I know this from both parties caused I verified this fact later on with someone at CHC many years later. CHC wanted to make their own game and were designing Vacation pinball. Gene, while holdings Williams exclusivity, renewed one of their expiring patents for the ball trough assembly used on the later Williams 90s games. He now had exclusive rights on the ball trough. (Williams was pissed.) He made a deal with CHC where they could use his ball trough for Vacation, and in turn they would run the playfields. (I think he sourced out cabinets to a cheaper local company. More on that in a minute.) The following shit show occurred with this deal.
1. Gene shows up in Cicero IL, to pick up the playfields. He starts saying I want this one discounted cause of imperfections, I want this one for free, I want this one for discounted cause its lighter, blah blah blah. The head guy at CHC says basically take it all as discussed or F off. Gene then takes all playfields at original deal parameters.
2. Early in BBB game assembly, while ball geometry is being tested, the clear coat and artwork begins completely peeling off from the ball friction. Like one of those scratch off lottery tickets. They test other playfields, and then same is happening. Gene is pissed and starts blaming CHC that they did it on purpose to sabotaged his game. He tells Kim we have too much time and money invested in this. Words are exchanged with CHC, with no resolve. Gene says go with them as they are. Kim says I am the one who is going to get massive amounts of calls after game delivery and we are going to get sued. The solution is as follows. They take all 190 playfields to the local Ford dealership in Bloomington. They go to the collision department and make a deal to have all the playfields clear coated again with automotive clear. Luckily this takes care of this issue, but a lot of stress with this.
3. Prior to the above, the BBB cabinets arrive in Bloomington, and they look awful. The purple is off, the sidewall paint coverage does not go down far enough into the cabinet. The fading shows when the playfield is set at the target height. In addition the cabinets are rough as hell. The back box purple coverage does not extend to the edges, and inside the back box paint is missing. Gene says go with it as is. Kim and Gene fight for days, and finally someone is brought in to sand and repaint most of the cabinets.
4. The two aliens sitting at the bar in the game cannot be remade easily. The artwork is lost and engineering diagrams lost. The originals were made by an art studio, and the guy was no longer around who did it. They took the two off of Gene's game, and have them remolded from the originals. He has 400 or so produced and it was costly. When installed in a sample game, the ball runs off the track in their mouths. They spin, and the ball doesn't release from their mouths. Somehow the mouths are too deep. More issues to deal with and this is a showstopper. More arguing and stress on everyone. Solution is to add a blob of paint in the aliens mouths so the ball doesn't come to a complete rest. This works after a lot of tweaking.
More and more issues like this occur during production.
This entry is getting long so more to come covering the following:
1. Gene asks Gary to assemble BBB. Gary says 1Million to get him off his case. He doesn't want to help gene because it is competition.
2. They company who was going to assemble / populate the playfields screw Gene and asks for more money. Double original quote.
3. Gene wants me and my brother to create wiring harnesses for BBB. He shows us one giant spool of black wire he got at an auction. Says we can make color coated wires with sharpies and some paint. We pass on this. He has to outsource this.
4. The black light assembly is no longer available and company who made it is out of business. He has to buy some assemblies from China, take them apart and reassemble.
At one point Gene has to sell property, several parcels on his compound, to keep the project going. He has a massive heart attack and goes to the hospital. More on this to come. Quadruple bypass. Kim is real worried his not going to make it. I will post more tomorrow. The saga continues.
Thanks
Dougram

Quoted from jchristian11:

Here’s a previous flyer Gene sent out with the price at $7,000 per Kingpin, I believe BBB buyers were going to get a $500 discount. One hang-up in making Kingpin had to do with software for a custom chip that Gene has used up making the BBBs, I don’t remember all the details but it can be found in rec.games.pinball.
[quoted image]

Quoted from KozMckPinball:

Was $4500 for a BBB priced correctly for the times? Seems awfully low in comparison to what the machines are being sold for today. Is that why he went bankrupt?

Quoted from Skeets:

I wanted to buy one, but I never thought they would get finished, and I recall expressing that sentiment on RGP, I was proven wrong.
I also remember a video that Korn and crew put out mocking the BBB build, that was amusing. I think they had to eat some crow on that one after the games were actually finished.

Quoted from Ballypinball:

he plucked $4500 price out of his arse based on stern prices at the time
and Gene told me himself as I had ordered 5 games from him, he lost $1500 a game, actually he said $300k he lost
he was selling the extra BBB for more money at the time, and Kingpin was more expensive, he said they had sanded the FPGA or reverse engineered it for Kingpin

Quoted from Mr68:

I was on the list to get one also and $8000 sounds right to me but like I said, I wasn't sure. Thanks for posting that.

Quoted from RWH:

That will likely piss the current BBB owners off if a remake actually happens.

Quoted from TreyBo69:

Lost actual money or just lost potential money?
Because he seemed to realize after the fact how much more people were willing to pay once there was a finished product in a box

Quoted from LTG:

Gene thought the same chip in Zingy Bingy might not be locked so they looked into getting it. It was locked. Then he talked about using it and sanding ? it, to what, look inside ? That is when they found the original designer and looked into him making them.

Hard to say. There was one Williams BBB not finished when they closed.

They were talking $7500. Everybody that got BBB for a lot less howled even though they doubled their money on BBB at the time if they sold them. That probably slowed things down as far as making KP and trying to get people to put money up front for it.
LTG : )

Quoted from chad:

I would like to know how much actual inventory was brought to Gene concerning Pinball Circus? I know in the past some items were sold on Bay Area Amusements as I bought one of the magician like characters.
They speak of 3 Pinball Circuses and I'm sure there had to be a fair share ( not a tremendous amount)of parts, cabs, playfields etc...
Were those just shelved and forgotten about or did Williams tend to fill their dumpster faster than normal, similair to when they bought Bally out and donated a ton of inventory to the dump.?

Quoted from Whysnow:

sorry I was contacted after posting them and asked to remove them.
I dont have time for BS and it was just easier to remove them than be hassled in this case (I guess I am getting old and losing my edge/ other more important things in life)

Quoted from Aphex:

Yeah, what did the videos show?