I wonder if the people that had owned the first 10 or so felt when Gene built the remaining games from inventory?

Lost actual money..

I would like to know how much actual inventory was brought to Gene concerning Pinball Circus? I know in the past some items were sold on Bay Area Amusements as I bought one of the magician like characters.

They speak of 3 Pinball Circuses and I'm sure there had to be a fair share ( not a tremendous amount)of parts, cabs, playfields etc...
Were those just shelved and forgotten about or did Williams tend to fill their dumpster faster than normal, similair to when they bought Bally out and donated a ton of inventory to the dump.?

I love the pf layout, but the code is super shallow. I've always hoped someone would do something similar to Cactus Canyon Continued for BBB.

Gene thought the same chip in Zingy Bingy might not be locked so they looked into getting it. It was locked. Then he talked about using it and sanding ? it, to what, look inside ? That is when they found the original designer and looked into him making them.

Hard to say. There was one Williams BBB not finished when they closed.

They were talking $7500. Everybody that got BBB for a lot less howled even though they doubled their money on BBB at the time if they sold them. That probably slowed things down as far as making KP and trying to get people to put money up front for it.

LTG : )

Zero f**ks given. Anyone who bought a Cunningham BBB has quadrupled their "investment," assuming they didn't already flip it. If you're afraid of a remake, sell it now. If you like playing your game, keep it.

Metallik knows the score. If BBB was originally built in quantity it would be an average DMD title today. $3.5k?

$8000.00 for the people who did not buy BBB, $7500 for those who did purchase ....

I've played it plenty...It's campy and fun.

I'd put it at a similar value as Creech in today's market, if they had made them in quantity.

Both are relatively shallow, with Creech probably being slightly more "difficult" to get huge jackpots, as opposed to BBB's mode based play and getting to "Big Bang" wizard mode.

Both are very nice to look at. Both have "adult" themes, obviously with BBB slightly more so.

So yeah, I think CFTBL and BBB would be very close value wise today.

Is it really a concern?

Several TBL were sold over 15k. Does finally DP suck to built them at 10k or 12k (can’t remember)?

Anyway, i would love to get this BBB back, if possible with a polished code. Please PPS/CGC, remade it again!

Yeah, those are great questions and agree it won't be Capcom parts or boards. Does anyone know what Chicago Gaming is using currently for their remakes? That would be an indicator of what to expect.

For the Kingpin remake I'm pretty sure Circus Maximus is using P-ROC and I'll guess, Williams mechs. That's what I *THINK* but maybe Compy would be kind enough to chime in on that.

I'm on the list of Kinpin buyers and actually prefer that they use P-ROC. I don't care about original parts, I just want the game and upgraded to modern works for me.

Kingpin is finally coming alive?

Why on earth would anyone use vintage electronics from the 90's? That would be crazy when there is over the counter generic hardware available.

Not for me but those that have one it may be a real concern.

But no one else in the whole world cares. No one was promised anyrhing. If someone paid $15K to $20K that is completely 100 percent on them.

People who bought them at $4500 will still have double value.

Yes, they've had some stumbling blocks but continue moving forward.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/capcom-kingpin-is-being-builtinfo-here

The code definitely needs a polish before any re-remake IMHO:

Most of the modes are not worth shooting for, only babescanner (10M left orbits) is really worth it. Funny that the right-orbit mode (much harder shot) starts at 2M, 4M, 6M a shot..

The 2 ball alien multiball is the best part of the game - good risk/reward and fun to play.

The main thing to go for during the game is the top tubedancer mode (the one that always returns the left ramp shot to the left flipper) - you can easily backhand the ramp over and over for 10, 12, 14 etc million since the ball diverts early and doesn't even need to make it to the top of the ramp.

Overall "strategy" is to basically plow through all the modes (can start new modes during multiball so no setup needed, just be in MB as much as possible and shoot the drops+ramp as soon as the old mode expires) and get to big bang.

Once in big bang, during ballsaver soft plunge balls off the shooter switch but not into play, game will eject a new ball. Get three in the shooter lane and play 1ball big bang til you drain, separate another ball, play it, repeat for the 3rd. You get a scoring penalty for the ball sitting on the switch but not the others in the lane.

There's other issues but those were the bigger ones.

You bet, just like everyone that owned original MM, and AFM. It's a money grab for Planetary pinball, thats how they think when it comes to the collectors. Same goes for all the prototype backglasses and translights........

John

It’s interesting they don’t use the ball trough to verify the number of balls in play for the wizard mode, like how any other multiball works.

A remake, of a remake, of an original, should Chicago Gaming produce them.
Big Bang Bar would set the record for being manufactured three times by three different company's and in three different decades.

Could be a future Jeopardy question.

They do. You cheese the mode by stacking the balls in the shooter lane. The game has no way to determine if the balls are in the lane or banging around the playfield, except the ball sitting on the shooter lane switch.

Most games have an autolauncher which prevents this cheese. TOTAN and WCS94 wiz modes are harder to do this and it's less beneficial anyway.

PLEASE!!!!!

Go back a few pages he already posted the videos

Only lost 320K on BBB he says.......

Yes, on paper PMI lost money making BBB but IPB made money selling PMI the Capcom parts.

Videos have all been made private however. They have been for the past 48 hours atleast which was when i first tried to play them.

Video links start here : https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/artifacts-of-gene-cunningham-illinois-pinball/page/3#post-5726893

Ok sorry IDK that

Good question! Correct, we use standard off the shelf parts where available. The core of the system is a P-ROC based board, and the game logic is emulating the MC68000 boards in the system for the original code. The PC is an embedded linux system just like CGC/Stern/others use. We did use Capcom flipper assemblies which are PWMed single wound coils. The timing and power characteristics of double wound coils are a bit different, but it's something we're testing with just to make sure that everything is readily available and servicable.

I've got a Capcom test fixture that I made on the desk behind me, and I'm constantly in admiration of the engineering feats they had made. I think the same way about the Pinball 2000 board system. However when we were doing the technical scope for this game, I'd calculated that it was much faster to just emulate and rewrite all of the driver board logic. Basically what you see on the running Kingpins from CMG is about 6 weeks of software engineering performed without physical access to the game over a facetime connection to an iPhone sitting on the playfield.

Definitely a fun project to be involved with, and seeing the game boot into the attract mode for the first time was a "eureka" moment for sure.

-- Jimmy

I have one of the non naughty CFTBL repro playfields still in a box

This may be kind of off-topic, but I want to thank Ace Pinball and Cirqus Maximus for making pinball history accessible to all of us. I’ve bought a bunch of high-quality prints from him/them over the years, and I’m the proud owner of a big stack of greenbar paper: the BOM for Algar. When I open a pinball museum, and this WILL happen, all of these artifacts will be prominently on display. Don’t be surprised if you go to the restroom to wash your hands and you’re surrounded by Algar BOM.

But I won’t be truly happy until I have some kind of Big Dick.

I completely forgot about those. That was a first and really caused a stir back then.

This is very cool. Did you find a stash or are you having new assemblies made up?

LIONMAN!

PPS has cad drawings for Williams BBB
inc Lamp Boards source code etc

Project was never finished, though. Pretty much no DMD work IIRC, though I think most of the rules were in place. WPC flippers had a hard time making that ramp as-was.

Rotation of 90° of the « I » would have been better

LMAO! It took me all this time to understand your comment. Worth the wait!

I see ads for that all over the internet

TMI.

thanks tTerry
I have thousands of pictures of every factory and the day we together there
lots listed on my old webs it and video's of the Pinball 2000
I still remember loading those 9 footy foot containers worth of parts and machines out of the factories

I have the black railed one in my showroom still
not sure what happened to the other 2

After reading through this thread and keeping up with it, I realized.

Big Bang bar is the one they need to remake. Talk about printing money.

I would plant kingpin right behind it. These are the remakes I would love to see.

Tinfoil hat on — this entire thread was timed to get us excited for the BBBrr announcement!

You take yours off?

Seems to me the major factor in the desirability of BBB is its exclusiveness, play wise seems to be no big shakes.

Unless they update the rules I don't see a pile of them running out the door as the exclusivity is gone.

Polish and balance the rules, add a color DMD and it might give it some legs.

Parties of the originals will be happy as will folks buying the 2.0 version.

Pretty much same story as kingpin

I think Kingpin is way more fun than BBB.

Kingpin was more developed than BBB. The ones most people have played didn't have the ramp optos and other things not working.

The one I had here, we got everything working. The game is a blast.

LTG : )