Quoted from TenaciousT:

So Dayhuff - how did you come by the BBB Translight ?

Quoted from EJS:

I bought mine at expo 03 from one of those two, not sure who. But I bought it as a lot of 5 different translites for $100. I picked BBB, Pinball Magic, Apollo 13, Big Guns and Barb Wire.
I should have grabbed all BBB there was a huge stack of them.

Quoted from KevinCPR:

Somebody more intimate with the BBB game-specific parts could sit down and rough-up a crude BOM.

The BBB playfields were "free" ... Gene didn't pay a cent for them. So put those on the BOM as $0.00. I know this for a fact. I'll elaborate a bit below. I think somebody earlier in the thread explained the backstory too.

Quoted from Tilt:

Kevin, There was still value that Gene had in them whether you agree or not. I dont know the cost of a playfield to make, but lets say it 300 each. There is no way that CGC would give 60k+ to Gene out of good will. Apparently it was a better value for them to "give" these to him than to pay the cost of whatever infringement they had. I guarantee CGC took the cheapest option, it was not a charity thing. So apparently whatever Gene held over them was valueable in some since from something that he owned

Quoted from Barr993:

Need to add a 0 to your total

Quoted from KozMckPinball:

Sorry if I did not know. There were 2000 BBB playfields made? Or was the remainder re-purposed raw playfields?

Quoted from KozMckPinball:

200 X 300 is $6000, free is still a good deal. Carry on..

Quoted from Dayhuff:

As soon as I got my notice in the mail to send the down payment I turned right around went to the Post Office and sent him a overnight money order so that he would get it in his hands the next morning early AM. which cost me like $40.

Quoted from littlecammi:

I did the same. He wouldn't take personal checks, so as soon as I got the notice in the mail I drove to the bank for a cashier's check and then directly to the post office and sent it by overnight priority mail. Which is how I secured BBB number 16. All the lower numbers were reserved for family members and insiders.

Quoted from flynnibus:

yeah but its not like he got those parts for free... his sales price would try to recoup some of his capcom expenses plus the new stuff needed.

Quoted from Tommy-dog:

IPB bought Capcom out (all their remaining inventory, worth approx $1M) for only $20K when they went out of business. Gene got a lot of boardsets (approx 200 CPU boards, 500 driverboards, and several hundred misc boards) in this $20K Capcom deal. The $20K deal also included lots of plastic sets for the production Capcom games, misc hardware, a pallet of Coin Control coin doors, drop targets, a Capcom test fixture, and a handful of extra NOS Capcom playfields (Pinball Magic, Breakshoot, Airborn, Flipper Football). IPB sold the Capcom parts to PMI (Gene’s newly formed company to make the BBB games). PMI bought the Capcom parts from IPB and IPB sold the parts to PMI (on paper) as a profit. PMI took the capital gains loss on BBB but IPB made big profits on the Capcom parts that he sold to PMI. The true cost to make these new BBB games were around $3K according to Gene. Games were made with NOS original boardsets and the translite was NOS (supplied by Mike Pacak). The reason that Gene only made around 192 BBB games was based on how many NOS Capcom CPU boards that he had working.

Quoted from shirkle:

.... wouldn’t it have made sense to have reproduced additional CPU boards, or was there really something on the board that was not reproducible at the time?

Quoted from KevinCPR:

Somebody more intimate with the BBB game-specific parts could sit down and rough-up a crude BOM.
I remember doing it back during that period for myself... and I couldn't get over $2500 to make one. Keep in mind, you have to know wholesale costs based on *quantity* manufacture. For instance, pop bumpers wouldn't cost what you see at Marco to buy ONE or THREE... you'd have them molded fresh, in quantities of 1000, in Chicago, for like $1 each. Bulb sockets by the 5000. Dimes each. And so on.
The BBB playfields were "free" ... Gene didn't pay a cent for them. So put those on the BOM as $0.00. I know this for a fact. I'll elaborate a bit below. I think somebody earlier in the thread explained the backstory too.
In fact, Chicago Gaming (CGC) was so pissed at Gene during that era, that it almost ruined CPR's ability to work with the Duba's.
Back in 2007 or so, we had really wanted to switch from the initial baltic birch plywood stock we started CPR with, to the "real deal" playfield gameboard stock. We had found the ACTUAL mill that was still doing gameboard stock (the last place doing it). They were producing it exclusively for CGC, who were making Stern's playfields. They were called American Hardwoods (formerly Weber Inc.) and were located in Wisconsin. They wouldn't let us order any gameboard stock, a 'secret recipe' they had been doing for decades, treating it like Kentucky Fried Chicken's 11 herbs & spices. Not unless we had permission from CGC.
So this is where we had to reach out and meet Roger Duba... thee patriarch of Chicago Gaming Corp.
Roger was quite the character. Old and tough. But sweet as pie once you broke through, got comfortable with you, and lowered his defences. His main beef with me was that I MUST NOT be working with (or for) Gene Cunningham... and that not one penny of CPR playfields went to Gene's pocket (LOL). There could be not one stitch of involvement between IPB and CPR ... or Roger wasn't going to help us at all.
Roger loved to talk on the phone once he got comfortable. And we got comfortable! That is when he told me the entire BBB playfield story, and clarified why he had to vet us for IPB involvement. Yes, it is true that Gene 'held them over a barrel' to force their hand to make the BBB playfields, to cover a made-up "fee" that Gene wanted, for use of some kind of a patent CGC was allegedly breaching - and Gene threatened to sue. So under this duress, they grit their teeth, caved and made the BBB playfields. Gene had said that's all he needed to make everything square. So they did them... but man, Roger simply *seethed* in hatred for Gene. It was palpable. (On a side note, Gene had essentially already revealed this story in 2005 when we visited [see my BBB playfield photos earlier]. Standing right there, at the racks of BBB playfields, Gene told us "You know what, I didn't even pay anything for these - Chicago Gaming had owed me, so I had them pay me in playfields" or something to that effect)
So I assured Roger that we had recently completely cut ties with Gene, and were working with Wayne Gillard Mr. Pinball Australia instead. In fact, under that arrangement, we were actually COMPETITION to Gene. At least in Gene's eyes. Roger loved that ! I expressed my desire to make the best repro playfields, using his exclusive real-deal wood, and thus way better playfields than Gene (or his partners) could ever produce. So Roger Duba agreed to allow us access to the American Hardwoods runs of gameboard stock (which they ran once or twice a year for Roger). We were so happy. Roger personally called the president of the mill and instructed them to do any business with CPR that we wanted, and the rest is history.
We had a few good years with American Hardwoods, until their parent company closed and liquidated that mill to pay off a bankruptcy somewhere else in the country. But the president there, in his last days before they locked the place, passed the gameboard 'secret recipe' over to another nearby competitor - and referred us to them to carry on the legacy of that wood. Even set up a conference call to make introductions between us. We've been getting our wood from that mill ever since, trucking it up from Wisconsin USA to Nova Scotia Canada. Years later we even tweaked the original recipe, turning the dark brown cores (usually sweet gum) to white ash, and tripling the thickness of the face veneers. Roger and CGC never came along on that mill switchover (he didn't like that mill or something) and they decided to source their wood elsewhere. I don't know how that turned out for them. It's probably been a decade since we've talked to CGC. Does anybody know if ol' Roger is still with us ?

Quoted from Jackalwere:

Gene had purchased TAG (Thomas A Grant) in 2001. Stern was using both CGC and TAG to make playfields at the time that Gene bought TAG. After the purchase, Stern switched to Churchill (CGC). Just speculation on my part but Gary was unhappy to have competition and did not want to put money into his competitor's pocket. Unfortunately for CGC, when they made playfields for Stern, they used the Williams process, which they didn't own because they had been contractors under license from Williams. Of course Gene had also acquired the exclusive rights to re-manufacture Williams parts, which included the playfield process. He leveraged those rights against CGC's unlicensed process to get the BBB playfields made as compensation.
I don't recall what happened after that, if CGC switched their playfield process to match Data East's, which Gary did own. Perhaps Wayne, or someone from CGC, or even Martin from Pinball News knows more. But it certainly appeared that Gene attempted to force CGC and Stern (his competition) into becoming a revenue stream.

Quoted from Tommy-dog:

There was some chip on that CPU board that could not be reproduced. I do remember Gene saying something about it. Also there are different Capcom CPU board revisions and the ones that work in a game like Pinball Magic may not work in BBB (due to the software revision of that custom chip). Gene had several CPU boards that just would not work. He asked me to take them back to my shop and test them in other Capcom games. The Flipper Football that I had at the time did work with one of Gene's boards so I swapped him out and give him an extra CPU board so he could have built one additional BBB game. It was a long time ago so I forgot the details.

Quoted from Compy:

Of course, I have time and retrospect on my side. Given where Gene was at in 2006 and the lack of technical resources, it would've been very very difficult.

Quoted from Tommy-dog:

IPB bought Capcom out (all their remaining inventory, worth approx $1M) for only $20K when they went out of business. Gene got a lot of boardsets (approx 200 CPU boards, 500 driverboards, and several hundred misc boards) in this $20K Capcom deal. The $20K deal also included lots of plastic sets for the production Capcom games, misc hardware, a pallet of Coin Control coin doors, drop targets, a Capcom test fixture, and a handful of extra NOS Capcom playfields (Pinball Magic, Breakshoot, Airborn, Flipper Football). IPB sold the Capcom parts to PMI (Gene’s newly formed company to make the BBB games). PMI bought the Capcom parts from IPB and IPB sold the parts to PMI (on paper) as a profit. PMI took the capital gains loss on BBB but IPB made big profits on the Capcom parts that he sold to PMI.

Quoted from Tommy-dog:

The true cost to make these new BBB games were around $3K according to Gene

Quoted from flynnibus:

I've never heard a source of what Gene paid for Capcom's inventory... But I don't understand why they would take the loss in the LLC setup just to do BBB - where they really have no taxable property or gains to offset... vs the IPB entity.

Quoted from flynnibus:

Then... according to gene.. where did he lose another almost 4k per game.. also according to gene?

Quoted from flynnibus:

yeah but its not like he got those [Capcom] parts for free... his sales price would try to recoup some of his capcom expenses plus the new stuff needed.

Quoted from desertT1:

What was the “Williams Process” for making playfields? Shoot, what was the “Data East Process”? I had a Hook for a while and while the art style was never my favorite, the Stealth Coat had held up very well over the years. So if Gary was “stuck” with the DE way I don’t know that it was really all that bad of a thing. Would love to know the differences though.

Quoted from Ballypinball:

he lost $1500 a game on BBB

Quoted from Ballypinball:

I can tell you that, they used a specialty coating that had a milky look to seal the playfields before printing, then clearcoated
that's why they were so hard

Quoted from Luckydogg420:

Could it be something as simple as dunking the playfield in a glue solution to firm it up?

Quoted from gdonovan:

If he lost money on every BBB why was Kingpin even being discussed or make 12 more BBB games with used boards?
A lot of money to lose for the sake of vanity. Your talking over a quarter million lost on 180 BBB games.

Quoted from Ballypinball:

he plucked $4500 price out of his arse based on stern prices at the time
and Gene told me himself as I had ordered 5 games from him, he lost $1500 a game, actually he said $300k he lost
he was selling the extra BBB for more money at the time, and Kingpin was more expensive, he said they had sanded the FPGA or reverse engineered it for Kingpin

Quoted from Ballypinball:

he plucked $4500 price out of his arse based on stern prices at the time
and Gene told me himself as I had ordered 5 games from him, he lost $1500 a game, actually he said $300k he lost
he was selling the extra BBB for more money at the time, and Kingpin was more expensive, he said they had sanded the FPGA or reverse engineered it for Kingpin

Quoted from chad:

I mentioned earlIer Gene lost big on BBB. The price for King Pin was at or about $8000 a game. I was on the lust to get one...

Quoted from Ballypinball:

the county said a lot of his rentals were not fit to live in and they bulldozed them and took him to court for unpaid rates and taxes and the values dropped on his other properties so he owed more to the bank than they were worth

Quoted from chad:

The price for King Pin was at or about $8000 a game. I was on the list to get one...

Quoted from Ballypinball:he went broke twice
once selling all the ipb inventory and then personally
how do you go from a millionaire to being broke?
Make pinballs

Quoted from colonel_caverne:

Through your talks, is it reasonable to think that a BBB remade could happen one day? Or is it more Unlikely?
Who gets currently capcom rights?

Quoted from colonel_caverne:

Through your talks, is it reasonable to think that a BBB remade could happen one day? Or is it more Unlikely?
Who gets currently capcom rights?

Quoted from Mr68:

Pinball announced BBB as one of the top contenders.

Quoted from Ballypinball:

he went broke twice
once selling all the ipb inventory and then personally
how do you go from a millionaire to being broke?
Make pinballs

Quoted from RWH:

That will likely piss the current BBB owners off if a remake actually happens.

Quoted from RWH:

That will likely piss the current BBB owners off if a remake actually happens.

Quoted from Mr68:

A few years ago I thought it was unlikely. These days I'm thinking it is more than likely they will be made as Rick from Planetary Pinball announced BBB as one of the top contenders. When, is anybody's guess but it has to be pretty high up in the cue for Chicago Gaming if they do it.