Color DMD is available for BBB. The BBB I've played a few times has color dmd, and it looks great!

Sell it with one out of the box I'm saying.

I don't know where Jeff Reynolds got his and if HEP went through it or not (he had a ton of HEP games) but played his when he had his collection of unicorns. I had played a lot of it on emulation as well. I like playing the game... but I still feel most of the lure was the 'game that never was...' more than it was for it's pinball appeal. Plus, played the remake a good bit too. Fun project... worth 10k+? nah...

Yea I played to the end of the room-to-room part on CAX's game. It's a blast when fully working.

Jeff Reynolds of Gary Cubeta fame and RGP Radio? Oh man, those were my rookie days on RGP and Gary was my first troll experience. This thread is memory lane for me.

Sorry to go off topic. Would love to hear more from Dougram69 and Kevin at CPR

I knew Gene and Illinois Pinball and had spoken with some of his suppliers, pinball restorers, customers, competitors, Gene’s friends and family and pinball enthusiasts. Being an avid reader of Rec Games Pinball, it was fun to watch BBBr unfold. I passed on BBBr when it was announced at Expo because of Gene’s business acumen and his lack of knowledge on how to build a pinball machine. Building pinball is hard was a well known mantra even then and it was believed to be an insurmountable task for a newbie to make a pin. My bigger concerns were the significant unresolved issues to building BBBr and the speculation of whether Gene would go out of business before delivering the first game. Gene’s health was sometimes questioned too and the possibility of Gene having a heart attack and leaving Georgeanne with an incomplete project were real. There was always a possibility Gene might be confronted by angry supplier or a spurned team member and the ensuing quarrel lead to fatalities or prison. The game was supposed to be built in five months yet took 2.5 years. That was a long delay and it allowed time for much speculation. With Gene, the more you knew, the less you’d be inclined to sign up for BBBr.

The enthusiasm for the theme and knowledge about original BBB machines were powerful aphrodisiacs for many original buyers of this remake. There was a sense of pride in knowing you were supporting this dream come to fruition. But there were so many issues and risks that I decided to wait and buy a HUO BBBr after they were delivered. Knowing it would take a few thousand dollars over msrp to pry one loose was ok if the game could be made. The game was originally priced at $5k and the market price on day 1 release of all games was $10k. BBBr reached new heights over the years, selling for over $25k at one point, before drifting backwards and today average around $15k.

Following the close of B/W factory in 2000, there was an existing inventory of pinball parts available from pinball suppliers to meet minimal needs for a few years. However there were hard to find parts, known as unobtainium, and the list began to grow. Common things in small quantities like flipper rebuild kits, coin doors, circuit boards, cabinet hardware, locks were available for awhile. Specialty items such as cabinet decals and stencils, plastics, diverters and game subassemblies were in shorter supply and might require locating a collector with extra parts or posting a wanted ad on Rec Games Pinball or Mr Pinball. Demand for parts was strong and growing while the supply of was fixed and slowly dwindling. Not many suppliers were joining up to make parts for a dying industry. Everyday Joe’s were shopping nicer games for resale and restoring player’s condition, rougher and non-working games. High-end restorers had an endless supply of work and an insatiable appetite for new parts. Most of the restorers had developed strong connections with parts suppliers.

This backdrop explain why Gene’s announced purchase of B/W parts inventory in 2003 was hailed as the second coming. Finally parts would be available. Hard to find stuff would soon be here. Gene was going to build BBBr’s plus start a thriving parts supply business,at the same time. Following initial progress setting up some inventory and listing some parts, the inventory project stalled. By 2005, Gene still didn’t have a clue what his actual inventory was nor what kind of unobtanium treasures were crated. Many boxes were not logged and promises of providing many needed parts to the industry had gone unfulfilled. The parts were there, it was the system was fbar’d. Gene didn’t have a strong interest in selling parts and by putting his family and friends in charge exasperated a solution. There were many false starts, a lack of focus, honest mistakes, incompetence, thievery, back stabbing, mistrust, broken deals, lies, deception, extortion, threats and intrigue. By 2009, Gene sold remaining B/W inventory (estimate as high as 90% of original cache that was purchased SIX years prior) to Pinball Inc who had prearranged and immediately resold the parts inventory to Pinball Spare Parts Australia. It took Pinball Spare Parts only one month to get their online store setup and another three to finish logging all parts. Bally / Williams pinball inventory from 1999 had finally entered the 21st century.

Regardless of all Gene’s adventures, wheeling and dealings or personal ethics, making 185 BBBr’s was a remarkable feat I’d label a huge success. That Gene felt he lost $300k might have outwardly colored his personal opinion of the venture, but I’d like to think he was more proud about having given people what he had promised. As proof of this, Gene was knee deep in designing and preselling King Pin. He had hoped to learn from mistakes and expected to make money selling King Pin plus more BBBr at a higher price. He was talking about producing Wizard Blocks afterwards. Gene was a dreamer, confident in his abilities to create pinball magic. To him, nothing else mattered, least of all what he had to do to make that happen. Gene risked his own fortunes and flew too close to the sun ——- R.I.P. Those on the short end of Gene’s deals are less generous in their assessments.

Did the regular ones ever hit that? I never saw one sell above 20K, seemed like the purple and golds sold for more.

Yeah for regular ones, but not that many sold for top dollar. Numerous listings traded hands over $20k.

The same... jeff went hog wild in building out his game room and collection and was a local to me. All the unobtainable games...

He wasnt the first rgp troll either. John shields had him beat by a good amount of time.

But the gary robot translator 2k was absolute genius.

John was unique. Always going on about Pakis. Even hitting a Pakistan newsgroup. People there wondered who he was. Someone posted he escaped from a pinball newsgroup.

LTG : )

Was pure gold! Some "Hitler reacts" are pretty good, but the robot translator was perfection when it came out.

I almost invested my retirement fund into gold bullion at the time based solely on the recommendations of that translator.

Just throwing in a +1 to this being one of the best Pinside threads ever, from the insightful stories of Gene's wheeling-and-dealings, to memories of playing BBB for the first time at Expo '96 (?), to John Shields on RGP (talk about a name I NEVER thought I'd hear again!), and so much more... this is truly some good stuff. Kudos to you all.

I always assumed Jersey Jack was influenced by Gene's BBB project and eventually built his own machine/company when he saw it could be done. I have no other proof of this other than my faulty memory of the RGP days. Does anyone know how much truth there is in this theory, if any?

Another piece of this very interesting story has arisen with BBBr #001 being listed for sale on Mr.Pinball Classifieds.

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Interesting as Mahomet, Illinois is only 40 miles from Bloomington. And listed just today after this threads creation nearly 3 weeks ago.

Kind of sad, in a way, that the game has less than 30 plays on it.
That's the narure of collecting vs. playing, I guess.

Duh. # 001 was supposedly Gene's personal machine. Why would only 30 plays seem unusual?

Aha, so this is where the shirt my buddy gave me originated!

Because at least one other person has owned it since Gene did. Thanks for the "Duh" though.

I've heard other people that documented the entire BBB process say that exact same thing. Like or hate Gene, he definitely validated the market and the fact that it could be done.

I agree with you both, but I'm biased. Kingpin when it's dialed in is a fast shooting game. Those Mark Ritchie ramps are super fun to feed combos on. The opto spinners are a key feature on this game... they spin for days.

There are some definite rough spots and "Pfutz"isms in the game code, but those can be ironed out. I remember in one mode at first, we kept checking to see if the ramp optos were broken because we weren't getting any sound or score events on the spinner optos. Turns out, that stuff just wasn't baked into certain modes. Generally we have every physical feature on the game react in some way when it's hit (even if it's just a sound call, flash or a meager point value). They just hadn't gotten to it yet.

The sudden death/weakening flipper challenge at the end is fantastic. I liken it to the "Assault the Vault" feature on SafeCracker. It's just a fun little piece of dessert.

The orbits and the drop targets are great when you're spelling out KINGPIN with the shooting mobster animations from behind the targets you hit. It's just a fun and silly game package.

I can only go partway in believing this theory. Jack Guarnieri had already formed ShuffleAlley.com before Gene started talking about making games. Jack's motivation was that he saw an unmet demand, for puck-type bowling machines in this case. He was the manufacturer of record, but used contract manufacturing (from Stern Pinball) to get them actually built. Gene's activities may have spurred him to think that he could start his own factory, but he already had the other aspects of being a manufacturer in mind. Crucially, he was already thinking that when demand was present for a certain type of coin-op device, he would (arrange to) get them built if no manufacturer was already stepping up to build them.
.................David Marston

None.

dmarston touched on it.

What I once heard from a famous programmer is simple. Stern wasn't building what he needed to sell. Jack had built up quite a market with Pinball Sales, and he knew what he needed for them.

LTG : )

Mine had 3K+ when I sold it. Still looked new.

As I understand this is prototype #001. It was followed by some engineering sample games and that led to production machines being made. Is it wrong of me to say a prototype is not the same game and would never play as good as a production machine? If so, then maybe it is the importance of or nostalgia factor which is the basis of its value.

And Gene tried to do it 'in house' w/o any real prior expertise. Jack from the start went it at by identifying expertise and bringing it in to form the basis of a long term organization. He went in to build a business - not simply swipe at an opportunity. Jack was involved with other full fledged businesses.. the validation was more in (IMO) his distribution and engagement with his customers. He believed the market wanted Cadillac games and he proved it.

Allentown before the fairgrounds.
I bought the book and a Wizard repo backglass from him.
He then offered to autograph the book and gave me a "Balls of Steel sticker".
I asked if I could buy a 2nd sticker and he locked up.
He really didn't want to do it, I didn't understand why not.
He took $5 and gave me the 2nd sticker.

IMG-2740 (resized).jpg

IMG-2742 (resized).jpg

Talk to the guy that ended up with roller rink. He was there always through the whole story. I think there’s a vid on that somewhere

Yea, thanks for reminding me... I took a real big beating with Jack Guarnieri and his ShuffleAlley.com, with his Parker Bohn lll bowler....charged me $1,000.00 for an upgraded computer system, (sent me a used motherboard is all, of course), that really did not offer too much for an upgrade, except for the "Flash" feature..Big Fing Deal..and I had to send the old computer back....What a POS....

Feel like Dave was his lawyer's name but not 100% on that. Would have to look it up.

Netflix, are you listening? Here is the perfect story for a "Tiger King" spinoff

Interesting question.
I was never aware of any engineering sample games at all. Never even heard of any being discussed, sold or re-sold over the years. That's a question better suited for Dougram69 or someone more deeply involved in production to answer. I'd like to know as well but I can only speculate there might not be any.
Keep in mind this was not a typical pinball manufacturer.

I would guess that is wrong and as far as I know, they all played equally. The only difference between the prototype and production games that I'm aware of, was the serial numbering and the round insert between the pop bumpers. All 20 prototypes had serial numbers beginning with a "0" and the prototype insert between the pops is clear or white, while production inserts were amber. See pictures.

image-19 (1) (resized).jpg

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I'm curious about the different styles of tube returns on the left side. The BBB I've seen has the neon green with the orange rings around it, but in the thread I've seen another style that doesn't have the orange rings. I've always thought that ball return was awesome looking, but when it's missing the orange rings it's kind of lackluster.

Show some class.

Are Capcom games different than other games of the era? Remove the batteries and the audits are reset.

The orange rings were an after market mod owners could purchase and install. As soon as I saw them it was a no brainer to add them to my game.
The slot cuts in the tube for those rings was an original design and can be seen in the 1996 model. The story goes that the orange rings were also a part of the original design but the Capcom bean counters cut them.

Dunno about his lawyer, but the David selling BBBr #1 is a doctor. He's also selling a restored Bally Kiss with a poster of the band. Wouldn't be surprised if the Kiss was also from Gene.

After Capcom closed. Pictures of at least one BBB appear that had the orange rings.

Bean counters also removed the bar with stools that you'd jump the ball from stool to stool around the bar. The tube dancer went in that spot instead.

LTG : )

Can you describe this toy more and/or share photos? Is there another similar toy on another game? I'm just trying to picture it in my mind. The player had to pop the ball around to get it somewhere?

I've never seen a picture or design of it. Or anything like it.

My understanding was it would be a half round circular bar. With 4 or 5 metal poles ( stools ) sticking up around it. The ball somehow got onto the first stool, and from there by flipping the flippers, like the mini playfield on TZ where you control the magnets flipping the ball by the flipper buttons, you'd have to jump the ball from stool to stool around the bar.

The Capcom guys had some amazing ideas, most of which aren't known or we'll never see. Greg Kmiec had that prototype Red Line fever at Expo with a moto cross handle bar on the lockdown bar. Rob Morrison was playing with a three tiered ramp that could move. They had the rogues of the industry that didn't fit in at other companies and they knew they were in trouble and were turning these guys loose to see what they could come up with to keep Capcom pinball going. Capcom Pinball will probably be the biggest what could have been, in the history of pinball.

LTG : )

Maybe each stool had an electromagnet on top, and the stools would move up and down powered by some sort of motor and mechanical gearing. Press the button to de-energize the magnet it's on, energize the next one, and if you time it right, it will fall to the next one and be caught by the magnet. Repeat till the goal or fall off.

Idk. That's I'm picturing in my head but it seems like it'd be a pretty big mechanism.

Could the designs still be around? Did the capcom IP get sold and is it possible that it's in a stack of paper somewhere? Or was that something that would have been lost in the fire?

My understanding the stools were fixed, didn't move.

And maybe they couldn't get it to work ?

No idea.

littlecammi let me know NBA Fast Break has something similar where you jump the ball from hole to hole.

LTG : )

I thought they were removed because of ball hang ups on the ramp.

Beaglebone system.

For anyone interested in discussions of BBB buyers during this time (2005-), I have opened up my BBB forum to everyone for viewing. It is located at http://www.robertwinter.com/pinball/bbb/forum/index.php

I took over the hosting of a BBB forum when the Bearcave guys exited the project. Sadly, I do not have any of the posts from their forum.

I completely forgot that I had also started a forum for the possible Kingpin remake. What little content there is may now be viewed here - http://www.robertwinter.com/pinball/kingpin/forum/index.php

I've still got those bookmarked from the good old days.

Shop out pictures of both here - http://ssbilliards.com/shopped.html

LTG : )

Too bad Al Warner won't jump into this thread and share a few stories - he was pretty heavily involved at the end of the BBB project......