(Topic ID: 185543)

Are you in favor of the IFPA changes for 2018? POLL

By pinlink

6 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic poll

    “Are you in favor of the IFPA changes for 2018 regarding the $1 entry fee?”

    • YES 217 votes
      50%
    • NO 213 votes
      50%

    (430 votes)

    Topic Gallery

    View topic image gallery

    pasted_image (resized).png
    pasted_image (resized).png
    MeanMeanest (resized).jpg
    85c588a29c8804b1e95223ed060880e7_one-dollar-bob-on-make-a-gif-one-dollar-bob-gif_320-180 (resized).png
    download (resized).jpg
    Screen Shot 2017-04-10 at 3.40.48 PM (resized).png
    IMG_4979 (resized).PNG
    pasted_image (resized).png
    IMG_1567 (resized).png
    pasted_image (resized).png
    bop (resized).jpg
    large_uAvG211cGNKSFyPzXFVMZzjkBB8 (resized).jpg
    download (resized).jpg
    1mlwhh (resized).jpg

    There are 513 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 11.
    #151 6 years ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    If they do we have our "Stage 2" for 2019 ready to go with our "Professional" ($1 fee) and "Amateur" (no fee) systems so people who are serious can enjoy one rankings system, while the larger group of non-serious players can enjoy our second rankings system.

    Thanks for reading my windy response, Josh! I guess I'm a little bummed that something like this can't be implemented sooner instead of having to wait another year. Ultimately, I would really like a way to have both Professional and Amateur play *together* in the same tournament, and not have to wait until 2019. That's like 12 dog years from now...

    14
    #152 6 years ago

    I agree the TD's are the ones doing almost all the work and are now being punished and have to do more work because the IFPA doesnt want to? I.E. charge a fee for IFPA like every other organized sport similar to pinball does.

    If anything some of the $1 should go to the TD's as they are the ones who are doing the work. No one at the IFPA actually calculates points or anything its automatically spit into an algorithm and it spits out the results. The TD's have to set every thing up, promote everything, run the tourney and deal with whinny pinheads(me at times), deal with submitting the scores, find the best way to get the most IFPA points. Its a lot of work and hard to get people to do it as it is now and now you want to make it even harder for them. Also could have tax implications as some TD's run multiple events a week and have up to 30+ people showing up to each. So 2 events per week with 25 people on average. thats 50 a week in fees so at the end of the year that is 50*52=$2600 that TD's now have to account for on thier taxes.

    This is just stupid and lazy of the IFPA!! If they want more money in and want to charge they should have to deal with it instead of pawning it off on the TD's that all ready have soo much to do.

    Also so do we get to see how well we did in a tourney to decide if we want to pay the $1 fee for our points? That could open a whole other can of worms. Do the points for the tourney still count as 25 players or now is it only considered 12 players because those are the only ones wanting to pay the fee?

    #153 6 years ago
    Quoted from Jdawg4422:

    Do the points for the tourney still count as 25 players or now is it only considered 12 players because those are the only ones wanting to pay the fee?

    Only those who pay the fee will be counted to the tournament. So yes, if only 12 paid only 12 people will show up and the tournament will only be valued as 12 people in it. if the top 13 don't pay then 14th place will be awarded the victory.

    #154 6 years ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    We also hope they don't get lost.
    If they do we have our "Stage 2" for 2019 ready to go with our "Professional" ($1 fee) and "Amateur" (no fee) systems so people who are serious can enjoy one rankings system, while the larger group of non-serious players can enjoy our second rankings system.

    If this is ready to go, why not just implement the Pro-Am systems in 2018? Why go through the hassle of a 2018 pay for points and lose players that can easily be saved now by simply implementing the Pro-Am system?

    It seems to me that both sides would be satisfied. The SCS and National events will surely get more than $320 per state (on average) that is generated in 2017. And players that do not wish to fund the SCS/National events can continue unhindered into 2018.

    Marcus

    #155 6 years ago
    Quoted from TomGWI:

    I can do it. I'm awesome at Bank Shot.
    Send Daluga with my SpiderMan machine.

    I have a Bank Shot if someone wants to make the 23 mile trip to the capitol.

    #156 6 years ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    If they do we have our "Stage 2" for 2019 ready to go with our "Professional" ($1 fee) and "Amateur" (no fee) systems so people who are serious can enjoy one rankings system, while the larger group of non-serious players can enjoy our second rankings system.

    I know you think I am a dick, and I rarely am able to simply connotate what I mean in text.

    As simple as I can put it, please implement this Pro/AM system for 2018 rather than waiting a whole year. I genuinely think it is the best thing for the entire sport, for IFPA, for pinball, for your prize pools, for everything. If is does not work then tell us in June of 2018 and take it the next step for 2019.

    I hope you know Josh, that even with all my complaining and pushing, I do it because I care, have passion, and obviously have put lots of time into IFPA the past 5 years. That is part of the reason that this particular change hurts so much compared to previous.

    #157 6 years ago

    Yikes, step backwards IMO convince everyone to go with a fee for 2018, then remove the fee in 2019 doesn't make a lot of sense, you lose all the momentum. You might as well just implement the two stages next year, my hope is the Amateur tournaments have their own ranking system that would not link them to the professional ranking. A person would need to qualify enough points on the Professional circuit in order to qualify for SCS and Nationals.

    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    We also hope they don't get lost.
    If they do we have our "Stage 2" for 2019 ready to go with our "Professional" ($1 fee) and "Amateur" (no fee) systems so people who are serious can enjoy one rankings system, while the larger group of non-serious players can enjoy our second rankings system.

    #158 6 years ago

    I liked the Pro/Am idea initially, but the more I think about it, once I give up the SCS, what motivation do I have to even care if I participate in the "am" part? Heh. We can splinter this into a million little divisions, have a "State-AM" competition? Where does the divisions and cutting into smaller and smaller pieces stop at that point? I think ultimately the choice for most people that are in my line of thinking (Clearly not fitting the 'amateur' moniker, but not willing to pay a per-tourney fee....stuck in the middle I guess?) will be between "pro" or nothing at all. Think I'm okay with that choice at this point. I'll happily support an amateur ranking system if people really want that, but I don't think it would solve these issues for me personally...which is okay.

    #159 6 years ago

    I'm of the opinion the "am" part will wither on the vine... but that's why Josh is doing the 2-step change-o-matic here, to gauge interest beforehand. If 2018 fails, presumably he would revert to 2017, although given Josh's headstrong attitude and no clear definition of 'fail', I strongly suspect we'll have pro/am in 2018

    #160 6 years ago
    Quoted from InfiniteLives:

    Only those who pay the fee will be counted to the tournament. So yes, if only 12 paid only 12 people will show up and the tournament will only be valued as 12 people in it. if the top 13 don't pay then 14th place will be awarded the victory.

    TDs can always subsidize dollars for those that don't want to pay it haha...
    They can always panhandle during the event too or have a tip cup haha.

    #161 6 years ago

    Keep everything the way it is but just make it voluntary. Set up an account that tournament players can contribute to if they wish and whatever's in the account at the end of the year can be divided up. Give them a gold star on their IFPA profile or something. As it sits now, based solely on this poll, 49% of players are willing to donate something to the top players.

    #162 6 years ago

    All of my tournaments minus the Fernandina Beach Pinball Museum ones are coin drop qualifying and a final 4 head to head finals.
    I have misc. sponsors for top 4 spot prizes.
    I've never charged fee to enter a tournament as I don't do a pay out.

    I've busted my butt the past 19 months to get new pinball players into tournament pinball.
    I have always explained that by playing that they'll be ranked in the state and world.
    The success rate hasn't been very high but it has been fun and entertaining overall.

    This year I'm focusing on helping casual tournament players get to 5+ events played.

    After this year most of my efforts will go to keeping the more die hard tournament players interested in playing my events. To me you either play for fun, to win and or for ifpa points/ranking.

    It's challenging enough to explain to new players or casual players how tournaments work and to get them to play, so they'll basically go from being initially a target to help get into tournament pinball to basically in the grand scheme of things outsiders looking in on tournaments unless they have really inspired interest level in becoming a tournament player.

    #163 6 years ago
    Quoted from schudel5:

    Just make it voluntary. Set up an account that tournament players can contribute to if they wish and whatever's in the account at the end of the year can be divided up. Give them a gold star on their IFPA profile or something. As it sits now, based solely on this poll, 49% of players are willing to donate something to the top players.

    But he doesnt want to set up an account. He just wants to ask for money and have it flow in. Making accounts and stuff is hard.

    #164 6 years ago
    Quoted from wizard_mode:

    But he doesnt want to set up an account. He just wants to ask for money and have it flow in. Making accounts and stuff is hard.

    Where's the money going to sit if every tournament the TDs collect and send in money or people just send money to IFPA? I'm not seeing the difference.

    #165 6 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I know you think I am a dick, and I rarely am able to simply connotate what I mean in text.

    I don't think you're a dick. I think you're EXTREMELY passionate

    Got 8 months to decide if we go this route or not. Time will tell!

    #166 6 years ago
    Quoted from metallik:

    If 2018 fails, presumably he would revert to 2017, although given Josh's headstrong attitude and no clear definition of 'fail', I strongly suspect we'll have pro/am in 2018

    Larry smells a chink in the armor!!!! Damn you Larry!

    #167 6 years ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    Got 8 months to decide if we go this route or not. Time will tell!

    obviously a bunch of work going on over here, so if you are going to make a change in the next 8 months, sooner over later is much preferred.

    #168 6 years ago
    Quoted from Xerico:

    If this is ready to go, why not just implement the Pro-Am systems in 2018? Why go through the hassle of a 2018 pay for points and lose players that can easily be saved now by simply implementing the Pro-Am system?
    It seems to me that both sides would be satisfied. The SCS and National events will surely get more than $320 per state (on average) that is generated in 2017. And players that do not wish to fund the SCS/National events can continue unhindered into 2018.
    Marcus

    This wouldn't be a player option.

    It would be a TD option to either run a PRO points event or an AMATEUR points event.

    The results would be in completely separate databases so the WPPR system as you know it would continue as the "PRO" system, earn IFPA related rewards, SCS qualifying, IFPA WC qualifying.

    The "AMATEUR" rankings would start from scratch. The first event submitted would result in a new number one player on the Amateur list.

    There would be no cross pollination between the two.

    #169 6 years ago

    For the past 6 years all of our monthly tournaments have had a cash prize. Entry fee ranges from $10 to $15, with $2 going to the OP who hosts it, and $2 to the kitty to provide support for the nationals trip.

    All games set to free play. 1 hour warm up, then tournament begins.

    Super selfie's have a $5 entry fee. The month long qualifying is coin drop.

    We have had a ton of new players. No one balks at the fee at all. Taking a dollar per person from the prize pool won't affect new players from joining.

    Now that I own my own location, I will gladly pay the $1 fee from my own pocket.

    We love the SCS up here. And we support the one who goes to nationals with $500 to help defray costs.

    #170 6 years ago

    So interesting to see it's 49/51 right now. A good example of how having some relentlessly passionate people on one side of the argument can skew the perception.

    #171 6 years ago
    Quoted from smokedog:

    For the past 6 years all of our monthly tournaments have had a cash prize. Entry fee ranges from $10 to $15, with $2 going to the OP who hosts it, and $2 to the kitty to provide support for the nationals trip.
    All games set to free play. 1 hour warm up, then tournament begins.
    Super selfie's have a $5 entry fee. The month long qualifying is coin drop.
    We have had a ton of new players. No one balks at the fee at all. Taking a dollar per person from the prize pool won't affect new players from joining.
    Now that I own my own location, I will gladly pay the $1 fee from my own pocket.
    We love the SCS up here. And we support the one who goes to nationals with $500 to help defray costs.

    Kind of nice to hear an alternative narrative to "the only people who play pinball here are the ones who play for free, free beer and free pizza, I can't ask a dollar from them, otherwise they won't play".

    #172 6 years ago

    This is actually great news I think if this would have been an announced initially you would have created a lot less negativity to the proposal. I really hope that a system like this would be implemented for 2018... In this scenario the competitive players get what they need a descent state/provincial and national payout, the groups who don't want to participate in SCS can opt out and have their own amateur rankings. I can see hosting two sets of leagues in the future in my city if this goes through. This will also normalize the WPPR system for tournaments that have high turnouts but many who really aren't there to play competitively.

    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    This wouldn't be a player option.
    It would be a TD option to either run a PRO points event or an AMATEUR points event.
    The results would be in completely separate databases so the WPPR system as you know it would continue as the "PRO" system, earn IFPA related rewards, SCS qualifying, IFPA WC qualifying.
    The "AMATEUR" rankings would start from scratch. The first event submitted would result in a new number one player on the Amateur list.
    There would be no cross pollination between the two.

    #173 6 years ago
    Quoted from ryanwanger:

    So interesting to see it's 49/51 right now. A good example of how having some relentlessly passionate people on one side of the argument can skew the perception.

    or how on pinside, many people will vote the opposite of some passionate people...

    A better poll would be the ifpa actually sending out a survey monkey to the majority of their active player base.

    Curious if you had thought about doing that Josh? May give a broader picture from and applicable audience.
    If you give me the email list for the top 200 in WI last year, I would be happy to send it out to WI players. Would help to see a clearer picture for the path forward.

    #174 6 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    Kind of nice to hear an alternative narrative to "the only people who play pinball here are the ones who play for free, free beer and free pizza, I can't ask a dollar from them, otherwise they won't play".

    definitely very different cultures all around north america and that includes the pinball world.

    14
    #175 6 years ago
    Quoted from Jdawg4422:

    No one at the IFPA actually calculates points or anything its automatically spit into an algorithm and it spits out the results.

    Yeah so I have to defend myself here a bit.

    We do not sit back and watch the results roll in. I'm a TD myself and the work I do for IFPA DWARFS the work I have to do as a TD.

    IFPA work for Becker and myself includes answering 50 emails a day with questions, comments, etc, along with approving 10 calendar submissions and 10 results submissions per day (on average). Most submissions take time to correct and make sure it's within our guidelines for approval.

    Easily 2 hours of work every single day of the year, no breaks.

    #176 6 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Apparently Wisconsin is the free, no-payout pinball tournament capital of the world! Who knew?
    I have to admit I knew almost nothing about America's Dairyland 3 days ago but now I feel like I'm ready to run for Congress there. Or at least edit a Fodor's Guide.

    That is not true ! When you come to my house you'd better put your sac on the glass .
    Beer is free though .

    #177 6 years ago
    Quoted from TomGWI:

    Here are the gambling laws: http://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Laws/Wisconsin/
    Enjoy the read.
    I'm not sure how these laws relate to pinball.

    I am actually really curious about how this does relate to pinball. I skimmed it, a few hours ago so i might be missing some of my points but here is what i noticed.
    1. Purses are not bets. So you are allowed to win prize money for skill (or possibly mixed skill and chance) competitions.
    2. Pinball is not a gambling (or is that gaming) device as long as it doesn't give adaptive free games and does not store the number of free games given in its audits.
    3. Selling pinball machines might be illegal (since they can be setup as gaming devices.

    I am not saying people are wrong that it is illegal to take and entry fee and pay out a purse, but it sounds like a lot of other places that if you provide the purse via sponsorship, you can collect a fee and pay out a purse. I would be interested in hearing what part i am wrong about.

    It was an interesting read.

    #178 6 years ago
    Quoted from imharrow:

    I am actually really curious about how this does relate to pinball. I skimmed it, a few hours ago so i might be missing some of my points but here is what i noticed.
    1. Purses are not bets. So you are allowed to win prize money for skill (or possibly mixed skill and chance) competitions.
    2. Pinball is not a gambling (or is that gaming) device as long as it doesn't give adaptive free games and does not store the number of free games given in its audits.
    3. Selling pinball machines might be illegal (since they can be setup as gaming devices.
    I am not saying people are wrong that it is illegal to take and entry fee and pay out a purse, but it sounds like a lot of other places that if you provide the purse via sponsorship, you can collect a fee and pay out a purse. I would be interested in hearing what part i am wrong about.
    It was an interesting read.

    An event with random seeding may trigger issues. As that can be seen as gaming / gambling.

    adaptive free games are not ok in WI but are fixed replay levels? Is that why so many are set to EB's for replays?

    Is ok to have to an competitions with EB's for adaptive replay levels? under the gaming / gambling law?

    And is turning that off vs turning it off in the eyes of the law are not the same thing?

    edit

    can pinballs / competitions

    be seen as falling under the law covering

    Native American tribes, which are supposed to have the exclusive rights to video gaming in Wisconsin.

    https://localtvwiti.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/12-evolution-of-gambling-wi.pdf

    repost
    http://fox6now.com/2017/02/19/state-tries-to-pull-the-plug-on-video-gambling-machines-disguised-as-phone-chargers/

    but the fallout from that may do something?

    #179 6 years ago
    Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

    An event with random seeding may trigger issues. As that can be seen as gaming / gambling.
    adaptive free games are not ok in WI but are fixed replay levels? Is that why so many are set to EB's for replays?
    Is ok to have to an competitions with EB's for adaptive replay levels? under the gaming / gambling law?
    And is turning that off vs turning it off in the eyes of the law are not the same thing?

    What? Yes. No. Maybe so.

    #180 6 years ago
    Quoted from pinballlife:

    What? Yes. No. Maybe so.

    1st part under WI law about random seeding in competitions.

    The gambling laws there are kind of odd.

    #181 6 years ago
    Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

    An event with random seeding may trigger issues. As that can be seen as gaming / gambling.
    adaptive free games are not ok in WI but are fixed replay levels? Is that why so many are set to EB's for replays?
    Is ok to have to an competitions with EB's for adaptive replay levels? under the gaming / gambling law?
    And is turning that off vs turning it off in the eyes of the law are not the same thing?

    None of what you are asking matters , the only thing that matters is the amount of money certain people would recieve to allow it .The laws in WI regarding gambling can be interpreted in your favor if you pay the powers that be enough money . As I said in the other thread the casinos had to fork over millions of dollars for table games to be "acceptable" .

    -1
    #183 6 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    or how on pinside, many people will vote the opposite of some passionate people...

    Or how on Pinside, many people will just pay the $1 because we are not cheap and complain about everything. ( especially at free tournaments!! )

    #184 6 years ago

    Josh I have question. I like the idea of increasing the purse for tournaments although the money most likely won't be in my pocket. I'm also a proponent of paying yearly dues to be a member of the IFPA. My brother and I run our own arcade business and I know how much work you are putting in while others might think you do next to nothing. My question is on the Pro/am idea. If implemented would pro players be allowed to compete in Am events? When it is all boiled down most local friendly tournaments are 15-30 people on average I'd guess. If half are playing on the pro side and the event is Am only what does that do to the pro players? Can they play with their friends or would they be locked out like top 100 players can only qualify for A division in big events? Which also brings up can Am players play in pro events? How would you determine points? There will be great Am players that just don't care about pro points and opt out. I'm not so sure I like the idea of splitting up the list of players like that right now.

    #185 6 years ago
    Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

    An event with random seeding may trigger issues. As that can be seen as gaming / gambling.
    adaptive free games are not ok in WI but are fixed replay levels? Is that why so many are set to EB's for replays?
    Is ok to have to an competitions with EB's for adaptive replay levels? under the gaming / gambling law?
    And is turning that off vs turning it off in the eyes of the law are not the same thing?
    edit
    can pinballs / competitions
    be seen as falling under the law covering
    Native American tribes, which are supposed to have the exclusive rights to video gaming in Wisconsin.
    https://localtvwiti.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/12-evolution-of-gambling-wi.pdf
    repost
    http://fox6now.com/2017/02/19/state-tries-to-pull-the-plug-on-video-gambling-machines-disguised-as-phone-chargers/
    but the fallout from that may do something?

    When they mention video gaming they refer to poker and slots I believe.

    #186 6 years ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    This wouldn't be a player option.
    It would be a TD option to either run a PRO points event or an AMATEUR points event.
    The results would be in completely separate databases so the WPPR system as you know it would continue as the "PRO" system, earn IFPA related rewards, SCS qualifying, IFPA WC qualifying.
    The "AMATEUR" rankings would start from scratch. The first event submitted would result in a new number one player on the Amateur list.
    There would be no cross pollination between the two.

    I'm on the same page. Sorry if it came across as one tournament that satisfied both Pro and Amateur status.

    In my mind, in a 2018 Pro-Am IFPA World, TDs have the two options

    1) Send in $1/player and get WPPR points that count towards the "Pro" standings, and by default the SCS/National competitions.
    2) Submit scores without sending $1/player and get WPPR points that count towards "Amateur" standings. These results will not count towards the current SCS/National competitions.

    TDs can advertise to their appropriate market and players will know in advance if they are earning Pro or Amateur WPPR points.

    I think if you follow this approach, you will serve both the Pro and Amateur players.

    Just my 0.02.

    Marcus

    #187 6 years ago
    Quoted from KingNine:

    Josh I have question. I like the idea of increasing the purse for tournaments although the money most likely won't be in my pocket. I'm also a proponent of paying yearly dues to be a member of the IFPA. My brother and I run our own arcade business and I know how much work you are putting in while others might think you do next to nothing. My question is on the Pro/am idea. If implemented would pro players be allowed to compete in Am events? When it is all boiled down most local friendly tournaments are 15-30 people on average I'd guess. If half are playing on the pro side and the event is Am only what does that do to the pro players? Can they play with their friends or would they be locked out like top 100 players can only qualify for A division in big events? Which also brings up can Am players play in pro events? How would you determine points? There will be great Am players that just don't care about pro points and opt out. I'm not so sure I like the idea of splitting up the list of players like that right now.

    There wouldn't be PRO players and AMATEUR players.

    It wouldn't be completely separate systems. Completely separate events.

    Everyone playing in the AM events would be tied for 1st in the world in rank because the history of events hasn't started.

    Under this plan there would be no player opt out of any event. Players could simply choose to compete in any event they want, and have two separate world rankings. One would be as a PRO and one would be as an AMATEUR.

    #188 6 years ago
    Quoted from Spencer:

    Or how on Pinside, many people will just pay the $1 because we are not cheap and complain about everything. ( especially at free tournaments!! )

    It really is sad how much money shaming is going on in this discussion.

    #190 6 years ago
    Quoted from Xerico:

    In my mind, in 2018, TDs have the two options
    1) Send in $1/player and get WPPR points that count towards the "Pro" standings, and by default the SCS/National competitions.
    2) Submit scores without sending $1/player and get WPPR points that count towards "Amateur" standings. These results will not count towards the current SCS/National competitions.

    TD's would decide in advance when they submit to the calendar which calendar of events their event will show up on.

    The decision has to be made before hand, not after.

    I'm not fully convinced that an AMATEUR system that means "nothing" with respect to any IFPA player perks would be of interest to players, and at this point I don't think players realize how they feel about being world ranked, and won't until they opt out of events next year and see what that feels like to them.

    #191 6 years ago

    If a pinball tournament is illegal in WI then a fishing tournament should be IMHO:

    http://www.wabta.org

    #192 6 years ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    TD's would decide in advance when they submit to the calendar which calendar of events their event will show up on.
    The decision has to be made before hand, not after.
    I'm not fully convinced that an AMATEUR system that means "nothing" with respect to any IFPA player perks would be of interest to players, and at this point I don't think players realize how they feel about being world ranked, and won't until they opt out of events next year and see what that feels like to them.

    I think the Amateur system would mean something to players since it still provides a "ranking" by which you can compare yourself to other players. Now, I agree that it will not hold the same "prestige" as today's WPPR ranking, but this would be the perfect test as it does not "force" players to partake in a system that they find unfair. It will also keep the zero dollar players playing pinball in a competitive form. And that is the most important aspect for me. Keeping my local players playing competitive pinball is my number one priority.

    Personally, as a TD, I'm going to find a way to pay the $1/person to keep my events "Pro". Luckily, I have a great group of players that will most likely pony up their $1. And for those that don't, I'm sure as a collective we will be able to cover the difference.

    Marcus

    #193 6 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    or how on pinside, many people will vote the opposite of some passionate people...
    A better poll would be the ifpa actually sending out a survey monkey to the majority of their active player base.

    Agreed. Or it's people that do not understand what the $1 is going towards like this guy who got several upvotes for this comment:

    Quoted from mrgone:

    I for 1 am happy to pay a buck to have the ifpa helping to make league and tournament play better and more accessible to everyone.

    The $1 is doing nothing to help "make league and tournament play better and more accessible to everyone". And people claiming:

    Quoted from mrgone:

    For petes sake, it's a dollar.

    It is actually $1 per person, per event, plus a ton of extra work for the TD's, and added confusion for new comers. I've seen people chiming in (and probably voting) that admit to not even playing competitively.

    I wish we could do a poll over at TiltForums.

    #194 6 years ago

    Oh crap, we just crossed the streams.
    136 yes votes, 135 no votes.

    #195 6 years ago
    Quoted from Pinball-is-great:

    Oh crap, we just crossed the streams.
    136 yes votes, 135 no votes.

    Probably should have charged a dollar a person to vote to see if the results would be different.

    #196 6 years ago
    Quoted from pinlink:

    Agreed. Or it's people that do not understand what the $1 is going towards like this guy who got several upvotes for this comment:

    The $1 is doing nothing to help "make league and tournament play better and more accessible to everyone". And people claiming:

    It is actually $1 per person, per event, plus a ton of extra work for the TD's, and added confusion for new comers. I've seen people chiming in (and probably voting) that admit to not even playing competitively.
    I wish we could do a poll over at TiltForums.

    and having a cash prize pool take out for charitable events looks bad even more so when it's per person and it's being send to a 3rd party. Even having say a MAX IFPA fee per charitable events of say $5-$10 for any number of players is better.

    under a 50/50 charitable event the IFPA take if any needs to be $0.50 per payer.

    #197 6 years ago

    Interesting: https://www.gamblingsites.com/blog/gambling-law-concepts-6106/

    The bottom part is the most interesting part

    Per the article:

    2. Social Gambling
    In some states, social gambling is legal. Most authorities define a social gambling event as one in which everyone has an equal opportunity to win.

    Here’s an example:

    Butch is running a shuffleboard tournament at his bar. He has 20 entrants, each of whom pays $10 to play in the tournament. But he’s decided that he needs to make more of a profit for hosting the tournament than just selling drinks. So he keeps 10% of the pot for himself, and the winner of the tournament only gets $180 in prize money.

    All of the shuffleboard players have an equal chance of winning (assuming they’re equally skilled). But Butch makes a profit regardless of who wins. That’s the opposite of social gambling. That’s gambling being run as a business.

    Here’s another example:

    Sammy decides that since his roulette table idea didn’t work out, he’s going to host poker games. Most cardrooms keep a percentage of each pot, but Sammy’s not interested in that. He figures he’ll just make extra money from selling more drinks.

    In this case, the poker players—assuming they’re equally skilled—all have the same chances of winning or losing. Sammy’s providing them with a location where they can engage in social gambling. In states which allow social gambling, he’s not violating the law.

    Not all states make a distinction for social gambling. Exceptions include Arkansas, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, West Virginia, and Wisconsin. In those states, gambling is regulated regardless of whether or not it can be considered “social gambling”.

    #198 6 years ago
    Quoted from schudel5:

    Probably should have charged a dollar a person to vote to see if the results would be different.

    txt vote + your to vote to ***** each txt costs $1 per text msg plus standard text messaging charges

    #199 6 years ago
    Quoted from Xerico:

    I think the Amateur system would mean something to players since it still provides a "ranking" by which you can compare yourself to other players. Now, I agree that it will not hold the same "prestige" as today's WPPR ranking, but this would be the perfect test as it does not "force" players to partake in a system that they find unfair. It will also keep the zero dollar players playing pinball in a competitive form. And that is the most important aspect for me. Keeping my local players playing competitive pinball is my number one priority.
    Personally, as a TD, I'm going to find a way to pay the $1/person to keep my events "Pro". Luckily, I have a great group of players that will most likely pony up their $1. And for those that don't, I'm sure as a collective we will be able to cover the difference.
    Marcus

    Your feedback is perfect. For your community you plan on finding a way to make The endorsement fee work.

    For everyone else that still wants to play competitive pinball for free ... here's the best question I can ask:

    Did the IFPA build this house of cards that is competitive pinball, and with a new "Amateur" ranking system that doesn't exist yet, we will somehow stop everyone from playing competitively who don't want to pay this fee?

    IMO that gives FAR TOO MUCH CREDIT for what the IFPA has done to help move the competitive pinball scene forward.

    If we're only a piece of the pie in terms of growing the sport, we're only a piece of the pie missing if we ever disappeared for good (regardless of this change being implemented or not).

    Currently more than half of pinside favors this change as is??? I assumed we would polling at closer to 20-25% approval. Consider me SHOCKED at the level of support this has so far.

    #200 6 years ago
    Quoted from TomGWI:

    Interesting: https://www.gamblingsites.com/blog/gambling-law-concepts-6106/
    The bottom part is the most interesting part
    Per the article:
    2. Social Gambling
    In some states, social gambling is legal. Most authorities define a social gambling event as one in which everyone has an equal opportunity to win.
    Here’s an example:
    Butch is running a shuffleboard tournament at his bar. He has 20 entrants, each of whom pays $10 to play in the tournament. But he’s decided that he needs to make more of a profit for hosting the tournament than just selling drinks. So he keeps 10% of the pot for himself, and the winner of the tournament only gets $180 in prize money.
    All of the shuffleboard players have an equal chance of winning (assuming they’re equally skilled). But Butch makes a profit regardless of who wins. That’s the opposite of social gambling. That’s gambling being run as a business.
    Here’s another example:
    Sammy decides that since his roulette table idea didn’t work out, he’s going to host poker games. Most cardrooms keep a percentage of each pot, but Sammy’s not interested in that. He figures he’ll just make extra money from selling more drinks.
    In this case, the poker players—assuming they’re equally skilled—all have the same chances of winning or losing. Sammy’s providing them with a location where they can engage in social gambling. In states which allow social gambling, he’s not violating the law.
    Not all states make a distinction for social gambling. Exceptions include Arkansas, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, West Virginia, and Wisconsin. In those states, gambling is regulated regardless of whether or not it can be considered “social gambling”.

    equal opportunity to win is there the cut to the 3rd party price pool is running afoul of the law. If on the very lest others to don't do that event can still get cash from it's pay in.

    There are 513 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 11.

    Reply

    Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

    Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

    Donate to Pinside

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


    This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/are-you-in-favor-of-the-ifpa-changes-for-2018-poll/page/4 and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

    Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.