System 11s have always been the best deals in pinball. At least for my skill set.

I think it depends on the title. Pinbot was a game in the teens 4-5 years ago. Hell, I went all out on one 3 years back and it took a few weeks to sell at 2400? In hindsight I should have waited 2 years. Now an average one is a 3k game all day. Same with High Speed, Taxi, a lot of the classics are selling for good money.

> Are William System 9 & 11 Machines the "Best Value" in pinball now?

They used to be a few years ago when they were all $800-$1200 each.

That’s when I bought all 30 of them!

rd

Shhhhhh............
I want to eventually pick up an Earthshaker to replace the one I sold a couple years ago. I don't want folks to catch on and drive prices up.

Gottlieb system 80a and 80b are imo.

I know they’re your jam at the moment … but you gotta admit, they’re such POS.

I’m just reviving a TX Sector. It’s a fun game (albeit the “hit the spinner” all day angle) but it’s such a piece of crap.

Boards are crap.

Connectors are crap.

Cabinet is super crap.

Hey - they are what they are, there are some good games there. A lot do tend to be “do the one thing a lot” though, you gotta admit.

rd

How many have you played? There’s multiple ways to play diamond lady, Monte Carlo, Excalibur, genesis. The music is unmatched (a big deal for me) and the typical scoring moves they pull are more interesting to me than system 11 games. Especially their use of the knocker for awards. So so good. Made me realize I’m 100% a gameplay over looks person.

Agree on the cabinets.

Their games are rock solid once the boards are rebuilt and properly grounded. Just like any other game.

But the question was best value not best games. Even though I think some of the offerings from gottlieb are just as good as Williams.

Most of them …

Yes. Same as System 11. Most SYS11 titles have 3 scoring strats you can use. A lot of people don’t know what they are because they just do “the thing”.

And like any game, if someone can pull off “the thing” then you’re probably gonna have to do it too.

Cool. Spread the love of SYS80 games.

But no need to dig at SYS11 … it’s not a “us vs them” situation. We are all in this together.

As my friend says, “Promote what you rate. Not what you hate”

rd

I didn’t dig at sys 11 at all here. Just said gottliebs are becoming the better value because literally everything else has shot through the roof.

Then you said gottliebs were POS.

For sure. Crazy times. Just glad I was able to fill my game room before prices shot up so I can at least trade for new games without it hitting the pocket book too much.

Haha guilty.

We can both be nicer going forward.

rd

Man I wish those games didn't command big prices right now. Would love to grab a Genesis for less than 2k but right now it's tough to find. I'd argue some of the best Gottlieb System 1 games are where you should go if you want addicting fun games that won't break the bank. Picked up a Countdown a few months back and I'm addicted. It's a game you can't just play 3 games on and walk away.

Shhh! These titles are hard enough to find already. The things I would do for a nice Torpedo Alley and a nice Radical. Skate or die!

No no new is better!
These don’t have the Insider Connected!! ..

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....and that's a good thing, who wants to be involved in insider trading!

Lol. Yep. Nobody wants broken down, pre internet, pre ball save, pre dmd, old man pins. Strictly for old broke dudes.

Radical jumped the price shark years ago.

It’s now a crazy price for what it is.

Having only 1300 made doesn’t help either …

rd

Relax prices will fall , they always do , strange times indeed. I just do not know when lol. Waiting for the housing mkt to correct .

What I do not understand is that nobody is working so who is buying the games? Also while there are a lot of jobs and they are paying more than before , I still see postings for 16 to 17 and hour. With gas, rents sky high , I doubt those workers are laying out 5, to 10 k for a pinball game .

Yep. A few years ago I said no way i'm paying $3k for a Radical because I remembered a few years prior you couldn't get $1200 for one. I also remember saying no way I'm paying $3k for a White Water.

I'm going to say, if you think this is true and are waiting to buy a game, you are going to have a bad day. Prices aren't going to fall. There are more people than ever trying to get into the hobby. There are a pretty limited number of games out there as well. This is what is causing prices to increase to crazy levels. Prices on certain pins may fall (aka, if they get re-produced a la MMr, CCr, AFMr, etc), but overall, prices aren't going to fall.

Pretty much all working common System 11 games are above $3k USD now, except Jokerz!, Comet, Big Guns, and Millionaire. Police Force has creeped up to $3k and low $3k mark, same for High Speed, and I have seen Cyclone listed for low $3k. Space Shuttle and Space Station flirt with $3k, if it's a good player's condition. Jokerz! is probably the best System 11 value right now in terms of price and Pinside ranking.

I guess relatively speaking to the $5k and up premium titles, System 11 is still a good value.

While it doesn't mean the price makes sense (I've lost track of all pinball pricing at this point ), I'd rather have a Radical than most modern, higher priced games.

With standard size flippers installed on the bottom, Radical is one of my favorite pins, and the best system 11 IMO.

It reminds me of 720* and the Skate or Die series on the NES, so it has a nostalgic sense to it for me (I'm perhaps in the minority there).

It's one of the longest lived in my collection so far. Once I got new ramps, it was a rocking game. I'm about to rebuild the flippers WPC style, and it should be even better.

Out of all the games I’ve had, I wish I could get my Jokerz back! The flippers were strong and the ramp shots were smooth. Super fun despite the shallow rules, with short ball times that made the good ones so satisfying. Most of the examples I’ve played in the wild had weak flippers, totally changing the speed of the game.

I think rarity plays a factor in pricing some of those early SS Ballys and Sterns. Some certainly didn't survive from their time on route back then.

I think it just depends on the game but there are certainly some games from every era that have seen significant sold prices, including the ones you believe are excluded.

Jokerz and Pool Sharks are the two most underrated SYS11 titles IMO.

Buy them cheap while you still can.

PS - there are tournament roms for Pool Sharks - fixed 9 ball game, 1m jackpot each ball, no random extra ball at the Mystery, etc etc.

Jokers is just an ass kicker. Very good tournament game if set up tough. In the grand final of the World SYS11 Champs, from memory the score was 875k vs 950k. Just kicked everyone’s ass.

rd