Avengers LE has great toys - a spinning disc that elevates with a hole into a visible subway system, a magnetic vertical ball lock, etc

I think very important, not all of us are pro players, code is not as important to me as havin fun shooting at toys or cool ramps. Like that great ramp in avengers!!

Define "toys". Is a toy a cool loopy ramp and magnetic lock like on Avengers: Infinity Quest, or is a toy a sculpted skeleton Axl on JJP Guns n Roses?

I define "toy" as a featured actionable/playable item in the game. Thing in Addams Family, Castle in Medieval Madness, etc.

I believe that it adds to the uniqueness of the game. Is the toy fun and has rules associated with it, or just something stuck on the machine as an afterthought?

To me, the more unique, the better!

That’s like asking if toys are important in bed

Interactive toys/features are important. But we need new/different interaction with the ball. Not the same stuff just put on a different theme/layout. Seeing the same things over and over gets old. And while themes/art/lights have gotten real to good to make a nice package on most of the newer games I don’t think we have lots of new interaction of toys with the ball that we haven’t already seen. We have seen some new and different layouts which is nice. Can’t wait to see how things evolve which they will.

If my game doesn’t have at least ten tinker toys in the game, I’m out.

In a small collection yes I say, I love shots and ramps but expect a little something extra in games these days based on how things have advanced and selling price. I call Bs on boom list etc for reason not doing it. Costs go up in everything so the build should have more is cost more not less for more.Toys Maybe not if I could or want to have X amount of games. I think it’s a shame some of the new games these days missing out on it. Yes Maiden is fun but missing that toy or middle shot through back of game. Yes New JJP GNR looks more amazing but still missing something. Do I want both pins yes, do I wish there was more in it hell yes.

Toys are why I enjoy a game like Big Hurt.

I would definitely say that toys are very important and one of the primary attractants of a machine. New and innovative toys that interact with the ball are normally the most memorable components of a machine. I would say that avengers has plenty of toys. I would also say that GnR has less, especially compared to pirates which had the upper playfield, the cannon, the chest lock, the spinning disc, and the whirlpool ramp.

For me personally, I enjoy games with cool ramps and interactive toys...I tend to gravitate more towards these machines. Obviously to each their own, but I feel like we should demand cool mechs and interesting wireforms in our new games...things that set them apart and are innovative. For instance, I have a JP Premium and love the trex mech.

This is really about GNR. I’m not thrilled with no interactive toys and endless multiball / add-a-ball.

Apparently these are there to “help” the casual fan, but the casual pinball players that come over dislike multiballs (tough to control) and LOVE bash toys (MET is the best).

I don’t know if I’ll like GNR. Simple to hit center scoop is a poor design to me. Upper playfield is meh. Endless multiballs are a big turn off and while the custom sculpts are cool, they’re just decoration. Like show and experience look just amazing but so is Maiden Pro and even w/o any “toys” it’s fun as hell and lightly used it’s half the price of a GNR LE.

You'll never hear about what they took out of games like JJP GNR....maybe a subway? The "hot rails", articulating stage lights, hex lights above the little monitor are good. But I hear you, I love watching castles and UFO blow up.

A good layout, sounds and decent rules is enough for me.

Interactive features are cool, but it's not the number one factor of a great pinball machine.

I love AFM, but I would argue it has few toys:
- the ‘UFO’ is retracting standup targets and a single drop target with a scoop. The reason it works so well is the choreography of the light show and shaker.
- the aliens don’t directly interact with the ball. They shake and stop shaking if you hit their targets.

If anything, AFM is an argument for code, lights and sounds saving a layout with few toys. Again, I love AFM.

I also would say scoring is and hate how JJP uses low scoring and Stern does the same except on Iron Maiden adjusted to the big points if you get what I am trying to say, just hate the low score effect, brings nothing to a game. I like the big scoring of most 90’s pins

Toys is the main reason I love my WOZ, it has so much going it's a treat for the eyes and it keeps me playing it constantly.

Yes WOz is maxed with them but I feel the game play too slow and always wished for JJP pins Steve Richie version

I love interative toys
Batman TDK, love the crane, the joker drum is a waste as is the drawbridge

I have yet to see a satisfying definition of "toy" in a pinball machine in all these threads. What would you all describe as the best toy you've seen in a pinball machine so far? I would rank Rudy, medieval madness castle, Sparky, and the Demogorgon really high up there. Its hard for me to think of anything that you don't just bash with a pinball and it either opens up a scoop or it flings the ball back with a magnet out front. I really would love to see more innovation in this area but I'm a little confused as to how you're going to push beyond that format much further

If you consider a spinner a toy then yes.

So let’s call a toy something the ball physically interacts with from a players shot. For example Sparky on Metallica. You are actually hitting the stand up between his feet. But that’s not what makes it cool. It’s the lights and call outs when you hit him that engages the player. Add the animation when you start sparky multiball and it’s an experience for the player. Same with destroying the castle on MM. But I think you have to include scoops, gobble holes, magnets, etc. because they interact with the ball. While not toys they engage the player. What makes them good or bad can be how they are integrated with call outs, animations, scoring, etc.

But again it’s new features(toys/mechs) we really want. There really isn’t much new on any modern game. Still have scoops, gobble holes,Magnets, targets, etc.

I would love to see different stuff. The back box is such a waste of space. Banzai Run IMO was on to something with continuing gameplay vertically. A different challenge. It’s pretty unique. But it’s a different interaction beyond the norm that is needed to freshen things up.

Lots of modern games have plenty.
- It’s pretty obvious the T-rex in JP2 is one of the best toys in pinball
- rocking ship that fires the cannon in POTC
- Houdini launching the ball

I’d argue that all of these toys are actually superior to those available in 90s games. I think what people mistake is that those 90s games combined the mechs with lights, sounds, and sculpts on the playfield to make it feel like more of a moment. Again, see Attack from Mars, which clearly has inferior toys to any of the above games.

Agree with you Phoenix but again it’s just a better version of the same thing. Look at BKSOR and magna save is back. Nothing really new added. Not saying it’s a bad game but it’s the same features we have seen.

No, especially if they don't interact with the ball. I am all for great art and well done toys on the PF but that won't save a bad playing pin. I wish there were more Magna saves in modern pins and I believe in a 2 spinner minimum.

The headstock Gibson on gnr is definitely a toy.6 ball lock with 2 different exits and you can almost add the scoop underneath it to the headstock as a whole toy if you look at the Elvira garage lock and ramp as 1 toy with house imho

Love spinners. Plus I wish there were more inline drop targets.

For the price of nib games, they should have some unique mech/toy. Star wars pro is great code and flow wise but you are paying a lot for a playfield with a few plastic ramps and a toy on a spring

I was going to also mention GoT pro but the dragon and the sword lock are decent and at the time got pro nib price wasn’t too bad, aside from lack of service rails

No, of course not.

John

NO!

Message from the Freeeek Kingdom.

I think like anything else it’s all about balance. Too much or too little of something is never good. I think the ideal pin should have a nice balance of art, developed code and some toys. If you are relying on all art or all code or all toys to sell a pin, it’s not going to be what it could have been if there had been a nice balance of all three.

My maiden pro has no toys and f’n rocks!
Code,gameplay,theme,theme integration imo that’s the recipe for success.

For me fun shots/combos and flow are most important. Toys are fun too but it doesnt need to be full of them.

GNR is allowed to be different and stand alone. Time will tell whether the decisions they made served the game or don't.

No, I wouldn't be happy if all new pinball didn't have mechanical interactive toys, but I'm all for companies trying new things.

Toys are cool... what Williams had was killer execution of themes.... cool toys. Fantastic sound packages, rules, etc...AFM being a great example.... all of the voice acting on the wpc classics are fantastic. I love TOTAN.... I know the rules lack, but the art, the toys, the sound are just incredible...

I think pinball magic has some of the coolest toys in it.... plunges is cool, magnetic wand, stage door levitation... but never seems to come up in greatest lists for whatever reason.

GNR seems to have captured that for a lot of folks. I wish I could get as excited as others about GNR but not a theme for me.... but I appreciate what they did....look

But you don’t need toys. Plenty of great pinball have none.

The perfect game would have the combination of code, mechs(toys), and satisfying shots. There are some out there that hit all 3 but not for all people. I think I am really partial to unique coding right now. That is what Spooky does best. I think Hot Wheels also has some great, unique coding. Creative and outside the box coding can make up for lack of mechs in my opinion. That is why I am not so big on Stern. Their coding right now seems more directed at tournament players with big emphasis on playfield multipliers and building big jackpots. I am afraid JJP is moving in this direction. Look at how different WOZ, Hobbit, and DI are compared to POTC, Wonka, and now GnR. Moving away from mode based code with major moments to big points and jackpots. But to OP question, best toy is MM castle...always cool to see mixed with great humor and good shots, makes it a top 5 game.

yep

They are when there’re implemented in game play like the gum ball machine and the clock in the ——— pin.

Yes. Of course. Not only to enhance theme integration but to attract players on location.

Are we talking sex toys or just regular toys???

Yes

RUDY

Tz - Powerball, power pf, Gumball machine - epic, innovative toys

Mm - drawbridge, gate and moat - epic, innovative toys

TOM - trunk - epic, innovative toy

STTNG - instant ball returns via epic, innovative sewer system

It's all about innovative ball interaction. Do games need it? No. Are they better when they have it? IMHO absolutely.

Toys and gimmicks get old quick. Give me theatrics, energy, and moments.

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Asking if toys are important in pinball is akin to asking does taste matter with the food you eat.

Woz is a spectacle of toys. It is basically one big toy.

Pinball doesn't have to have a lot of toys in it. Take for instance these games with one toy that does so much...

MM Castle. Drawbridge that lifts up. Gate that opens. Castle blows up. Side entrance to shoot for that eventually results in a multiball mode. Light show.

EHOH House ramp that starts modes. Lifting ramp that lights up and exposes an underneath shot and exit. Cellar door with target that eventually starts a multiball. Back door skill shot. Turret that turns during house party mode. Light show.

Sterns ST Vengeance Ship. Starts several multiball events. Toy shakes and drops (crashes) Drop Target in front. Toy shoots back at you when hit from underneath and catches the ball as well

WOZ Castle walls with upper playfield and flipper. Door that opens to expose shot. I should throw the monkey in there as well, since it comes down and grabs the ball and takes it to the upper playfield (castle wall). Multiball mode. Have to be careful on this one because my wife is still upset with me for selling it.

These are just a couple of molded toys that does so much in a pin that they kinda count for multiple toys in a game, all wrapped up in one package.