I am one with the force and the force is with me!

What's your definition of good? I enjoyed them both so I thought they were good. But popcorn flick good, nothing sticks with me after watching.

They both are way more enjoyable than the prequels. I can't get through those.

Rogue one was epic! The force awakens not so much.

TFA, crap movie, no memorable charaters, no memorable lines. the only cool bits were special effects shot that were in the trailer
too much repeating episodes 4 5 6

enjoyed RO more, but still not a movie i am in a hurry to rewatch

I watched both of them only once and have no urge to watch again.

After Carrie Fisher died I wanted to watch the OT after not watching them in probably 10 years. I started to watch the blurays and found them to not be the movies I remembered from my youth. I found a VHS copy and enjoyed them very much.

I respectfully disagree. I enjoyed both movies and saw them multiple times in theatres.

The one thing that people don't realise is that George Lucas purposefully crafted his story with a palendromic structure where the lives and events within the story structure parallel each other. (Phantom Menace mirrors A New Hope etc) There is an underlying ABC/CBA structure at play where every act in each film fulfills the same function as the act in the inverse position in its corresponding film. This circular or ring story structure has been carried on in the new Trilogy.

This repetition occurs in actual history. Like the old saying goes, history repeats. It is known as Historic Recurrence and the theory dates back to around 220BC during the Hellenistic Period in Ancient Greece. This historical recurrence is still occurring in the modern world.

Anyway, the fact that The Force Awakens mirrored A New Hope was not an issue for me, as I understand and accept the palendromic structure and resonance of Star Wars. Also, this new franchise was targeted to a new generation, who will fall in love with this iteration of Star Wars, like we did with the Original Trilogy.

May the force be with you.

I had the opposite opinion. I liked the Force Awakens but I cant seem to get into Rogue One. I have tried watching it several times after purchasing the Blu Ray and it is so slow that my kids are not even interested in watching it. The other thing I noticed in Rogue One was the video effects and the use of digital editing and video. It seems like the entire movie was shot with a green screen and it made it feel like you were watching a video game instead of a movie. It simply did not have the magic of previous Star Wars films. I am hoping Rogue One will grow on me but for now I am not impressed. Now that Disney has taken over the franchise the future is questionable.

SW Disney Special.jpg

"Again it's like poetry, so that they rhyme."

Lucas is a hack. Too much credit is given to him with this "ring theory".

And people tend to minimize the contributions of the OT's other writers and directors. The prequels were made purely for money. If you watch the behind the scenes, Lucas was obsessed with passing Titanic.

I'm not sure where R1 fits in your precious ring theory.

Alrighty then.

He is one of the most commercially successful film makers in history. For a hack, his list of accomplishments in the industry are astounding. Not only did he create one of the most profitable and beloved Science Fiction series to ever be put to film, his accomplishments stem much further than this. He is also the pioneer of modern movie Special Effects with the creation of his Industrial Light and Magic company - ILM are prolific still to this day. He was also the Godfather of movie merchandising and a genius business man in his field. Not bad for a hack.

If you define filmmaker as producer then yes I agree. He's a great idea man and administrative leader but when it comes to writing and directing he's about 50-50. And he's gotten worse since he got rich and lazy.

That's not uncommon though. Most writers, musicians, people in an artistic field lose their unique viewpoint when they move up financially. A lot of athletes lose their focus and drive also.

I liked RO overall. I have a few issues with the overall forced technological limitations in favor of giving the characters some physical activity to perform.

For example: Why is the data stored on tapes that are only retrievable by means of a manually controlled arm? Why is the data from a tape only accessible when inserted into a slot at a dedicated terminal?Why isn't the terminal password protected? Why isn't the data encrypted so that physically having a tape isn't enough?

All of this seems like a horrible means of storing data. If you have to retrieve a tape and insert it somewhere to access the data then you're at risk for damaging the tape or accidentally losing it (are there backups?).

In RO I honestly don't understand how anyone in charge signed off on the CGI versions of Peter Cushing and Carrie Fisher. How are we in 2017 and still dealing with poor quality CGI? Those moments tore me away from my engagement in the story and that shouldn't be happening.

It started out with a reflection of Tarkin (Cushing) and I was actually happy about it... but then he turned around. It would have been better if he stayed turned away.

I was left with a "meh" feeling after TFA. It relied too much on nostalgia, which kind of worked for me on first viewing, but didn't last. If they were going to do another Deathstar, they could have at least had a twist to where the bad guys actually won in the first movie and were a formidable force. As many resources as they have to build giant weapons, it seems like their engineers would be able to safe-guard against catastrophic domino-effect failures... especially given the lessons from their very recent (in the grand scheme of things) history.

You should try watching the despecialized versions of the original trilogy. They look really good and don't have all the added cgi bits that Lucas added later. You can literally see dust and scratches on the speeder

Are the two latest SW movies any good?

Yes.

Yes this was the worst since it was the premise for the whole movie. Maybe if they had a little back story on why they don't network computers like they did with Battlestar Galactica it would have helped.

Lucas is a moron, and the original trilogy is decent DESPITE him, not because of him.

Star Wars is probably the most overrated film of all time. i mean it's entertaining for 1977 space-fantasy pulp. i like it. and i go see the new ones just like everyone else. but it doesn't deserve to be the epicenter of the largest movie and toy empire on earth.

the franchise is fueled by nostalgia, and that nostalgia is as much for plastic merchandise as it is for the movies themselves.

if you don't think that's true, go ask a 24 year old about those fucking awful, indefensible prequels: they will stroke their chin and be like "yeah those were pretty cool, i loved them as a kid..." they are on the same path as you guys. 20 years from now, those prequels will be revered almost as much as the original three, and for the exact same reasons (which have nothing to do with their actual quality). they will be middle aged dudes trying to revisit the joy and wonder they felt as kids, and attributing that feeling to the pabulum they consumed at the time, instead of simply the joy and wonder inherent to being a kid. they hope consuming it again can give them the same feeling, and in fits and starts it can a little bit, but not because it's actually something inherently wonderful.

actually, this is pretty similar to how modern defense and security agencies store their most sensitive information. you compartmentalize it, and you isolate it physically, both from unauthorized access and from any online network.

I didn't want to sound so harsh but I'm pretty sure you're right.

I was reading again about the production of the first film. I had thought that Lucas was at least a competent director but after reading about his confrontations with his Cinematographer I'm convinced he's not even good at that.

I know I'm in the minority but I'm not a fan of either of the new films. Ep 7 just felt like a repackaged Ep 4 and Rogue One bored me to tears. I'm hopping they get better as they move further away from hanging their hat so heavily on the original trilogy.

Both were mediocre.

TFA felt like Episode 4 written by someone else.

R1 Introduced all those new characters so quickly with all their weird names that it was really hard to follow. Also Rogue 1 had no Star Wars music. Why??? With the unfamiliar characters and music it felt like "space movie" not "Star Wars"

Ugh. Rogue One. I just felt that there was nothing to draw you into a character. The human element was missing. Made it boring. I still can't remember character names.

Not to mention that the whole film is a political statement. Sadly, everything has to be nowadays.

I continue to be shocked how much people liked Rogue One. Just. SO. BORRRINNGG!!

First 40 minutes of TFA is great... until the old characters show up and let all the air out of the tires.

If Last Jedi is just a remake of Empire I'm done watching the series.

i thought Rogue One was pretty good from an intellectual standpoint, but it kind of failed to really leave much of a mark on me emotionally.

it is a cool and interesting premise: expand a line or two of expositionary dialogue from the original film into a whole movie. plus, the idea of a movie centered around a true suicide mission is refreshing -- summer blockbusters use the term "suicide mission" constantly, and everyone always makes it out alive. i enjoyed each character's slow realization that they weren't going to be dancing with ewoks or attending awkward medal ceremonies in the end.

unfortunately, the movie failed to really imprint these characters on us. i liked them all fine. but i didn't really latch on to them emotionally. Baze and Chirrut were probably my favorites characters, and i had to look up their names for this post. that's not good. (my other favorite character was the android)

maybe we're spoiled by the golden age of TV that we're living in - with DVR technology, we get to spend dozens if not hundreds of hours getting to know characters before they're killed off. poor hollywood has no chance of matching that emotional resonance in just two hours. or maybe the movie just wasn't that great.

i also think hollywood's obsession with humongous action set-pieces is another thing preventing us from really latching on to the humans in their movies, but i think i'm in the minority there.

"Hey LucasFilm, that's IT. I'll watch 9 Star Wars movies and NOT A MOVIE MORE!"

Like any new movies are any better, they are all digitized unrealistic remade shit.

Have you been reading the thread? I appear to be in the minority for liking Rogue One. Here's why I enjoyed RO. To me, it felt more like the original trilogy, they brought it back to the roots with story telling and character development. People thinking it was boring makes me wonder if they liked the original 3 SW films, they are slow moving with perfect pitches of action, multiple characters, at a good pace - just like rogue one. Plus, in rogue one they seemed to follow back to the roots of SW in action having multiple characters have an impact, not just one or two - and at the end they get all sorts of side characters involved in the action just like the original 3 SW movies did. The best part is everyone dies! ...except princess Lea of course it followed the Star Wars story line great as did the screenplay. IMO.

Totally agree on TFA; it started out so great, but when the old characters showed up and this bad ass Kylo Ren villain has a temper tantrum and continued to whine and bicker worse than a toddler, I was done.

I think the real problem is that Robocop, released in 1987, has made it pretty much impossible to appreciate any other movies. It's just too damn good.

Like when Sir Mix aLot put out "Baby Got Back," there was no hope for him. He could release Abbey Road and nobody would want to hear it, since Back was just so goddamn good.

I was lucky (and old) enough to see all the original SW movies in the theaters when they came out. Enjoyed all, even Jedi.

The prequels made me sad. Really hard to watch them again, even though they have some parts/scenes that are enjoyable.

Agree. I enjoyed TFA when I first saw it, but didn't love it. Definitely felt like a retread of Episode IV. However repeat viewings were much more enjoyable, maybe because I was no longer expecting something new and different, not sure. Watched it with my girls (5 & 8 ) and they really liked it as well.

Rogue One I enjoyed. I went in as blank as I could making a point to not see any of the Trailers or sneak peaks. Felt like more of a War movie to me than a traditional SW movie, and I really liked it. It's darker though, so I haven't watched it again since I'm not sure how the girls will react to it.

I'm a fan though and want to enjoy it, so I guess I'm an easier target audience.

I don't get the love for RO at all. It was so slow that I fell asleep the first time I tried to watch it. I made myself watch it again just because I thought maybe I was sleepy and missed what made it so awesome. Nope, it just sucked. Slow, plodding, and forced at every step. I enjoyed TFA but it was also nothing more then an exact reboot of episode 4 but since it's Disney we now have a female Luke. It was fun to watch and captured the essence of the originals but certainly brought nothing new to the table.

Maybe they can start episode 8 on an ice planet and see if someone can build an even bigger planet wrecking machine?

It's funny how most people (on pinside) liked TFA, but thought RO was boring. Guess it goes to show, constant action & special effects still wins over plot and story lines.

FWIW; and ill stop sounding like a broken record and get back to work here. The action was great in RO, some real good throw backs to the original SW series. I don't see how fans of the original SW did not like RO. Certainly there's people on pinside who feel the same? No...? your loss I guess

The thing that Rogue One lacks for me compared to the originals is character arcs. None of the cast really has a transition or inner journey throughout the course of the film. Too much plot, not enough story.

I like the originals, didn't feel like I lost anything with RO other then my time. I think you are over playing the plot and story line of RO to be honest. We got introduced to some back characters that for the most part play no further roll and because they were killed in the movie or are second tier players that don't really matter. I could have certainly lived without the blunt C3PO rehash robot. Saw Gerrera is by far the most interesting character of the movie and was underutilized and then killed off.

Lucas was saved by his editor wife - the only reason his movies were watchable was because of her. After the divorce it was all crap.

I agree, TFA is a flawed film. I saw it twice and the flaws were apparent even worse on the second viewing. So many nonsensical choices, forced humour, and the whole Mary Sue thing with Jin. Just, eh. I wasn't bad but it wasn't great. It wasn't Empire - which Lucas didn't direct.

i think this is an extremely specious distinction. they were both huge spectacle-based action movies. TFA didn't really register with me has having significantly less action or violence. didn't 50 trillion people eat it due to Deathkiller Planet or whatever that stupid thing was called? we're not talking about Rogue One versus My Dinner With Andre here.

The problem with R1 for me was there just wasn't anything to latch onto with these characters. The most interesting was the spy dude but he wasn't given enough time so ultimately everyone was forgettable.

They should have cut out the Chinese guys because they were useless. They were a cheap attempt to get more money from the Asian market. I don't think China cares about seeing Asian actors in their movies because Transformers and Warcraft were pretty big there.

There were some neat visuals but Disney had better find some good storytellers or Star Wars is gonna start trending downward. Especially with the oversaturation that is occurring.

you are not even trying
without ILM there would be no pixar
THX sound system also a Lucas company
i think there is also a film editing system

Lucas IS a bad writer, but he did want the movie watching experience to be better

They look pretty real if you are drunk!

TFA was a rehash but I liked all the elements. The characters are drawn well and the overall construction of the film is entertaining even if it's not saying anything new. RO is crushingly boring. The characters are vague and the script is a hot mess, and it seems to rely on your interest in them finding the plans. There was an excellent opportunity there but it was totally wasted on a lousy script.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/rogue-one-vs-the-force-awakens-spoilers-inside

Yup no green screen in the Force Awakens & the previous 3 prequels

Oh if we could only go back to the great Lucas prequels AKA the worst frikkin movies anyone over the age of 12 watched.

Speaking in general terms, not like weirdo Star Wars circle jerkers which I am not, but the issue with RO was a bunch of characters that really weren't that well written that not many people gave a shit aboot. The acting of the main characters was MUCH BETTER in TFA by a great deal. I mean the blind dude alone was a deal breaker.
Love Gareth/hate JJ and would have bet $1000 that I would have liked RO better but it didn't turn out that way.

Why do so many people seem to think that every movie has to be the greatest movie they've ever seen or it is just garbage? Did I have fun? Was I entertained? If the answers are yes, then it was a good movie to me. A great movie will make me think or feel strong emotion but not every movie has to be great for me to enjoy it.

I really enjoyed both of the movies. Rogue One starts off a little slow but was mostly exciting and really went with the sentiment that the rebels were this rag-tag group trying to take down the Evil Empire through what seemed like insurmountable odds. I wish her father were featured more and hadn't been killed; Mads is a great actor. The android was my favorite main-ish character and every scene with Vader was great. Krennik was a perfectly detestable villain. Forrest Whitaker's character was mostly unnecessary and strange.

TFA was good the first time I watched it and I really liked Rey initially. Then over the next few days I started to really think a lot about Kylo Ren and even though I think his name is stupid, I really felt like his outfit, helmet, voice, lightsaber and violent/whiny demeanor are all pretty awesome. He is a great villain with his own weaknesses. Carrie Fischer was terrible and Harrison Ford was just ok. The new group of 4 main characters were pretty good overall and I am intrigued to learn more about Snoke and Maz. It was far closer to Episode 4 than Episode 1 (and I don't just mean the general plot).

Here is the order that I like all of the Star Wars in: 3 = 6 > 5 = 4 > 7 > 2 > RO > Darth Maul and Natalie Portman >>> the rest of 1

Man, Episode 1 really is garbage. I am just thinking about it again.

This Pinside crowd are a hard bunch to please. I am surprised at the amount of haters here for both of the new films. I'm sure this is not the general consensus and there would be no doubt differing opinions on other forums. The huge Box Office numbers and positive critical reception were also very good for both of the new films and answers the OP's question.

The two recent films are a darn sight better than the preqels and at least they went back to the grass roots with the practical film making (real sets, real costumes etc..) that made the originals so good.

SW E4 - Good. Fun. Nice effects for the time.
SW E5 - Very Good. Good continuation of the story, everyone left wanting for the next one.
SW E6 - Good. Tied everything up nicely. Iron bikini epic. Dragged down by muppet Ewoks.

SW E1 - Bad.
SW E2 - Bad.
SW E3 - Bad. Somehow even worse.

SW E7 - Bad. Great effects, amazingly lazy effort at a story.
SW RO - Barely OK. Silly in parts. Epic ending (although opinions on the ending vary).

George Lucas - Not dumb. Star Wars gets the green light, his pay is to be $500,000. He says, I'll do it for only $150,000. If, that is, you give me the merchandising rights and the rights to sequels. Now he has billions and billions of dollars. He could buy a HEP pin.

for me they are better than the prequels

Episode One was one of the biggest disappointments of my childhood

VII was lazy yes but it wasn't a butchering

Rouge One was slow but fun. it did feel kinda similar also

hopefully in VIII they don't have to destroy a powerful weapon or base again

At least in the prequels the politics make sense. A Republic becomes militarized during a war and slowly democracy dies. It's a good story told badly.

TFA is a bad story told well. The "First Order" don't make a lick of sense. Where did they come from? More importantly where do they get money? Do they tax planets or just blow them up? Would Rome have just blown up Egypt or would they rather have their grain?

If the Republic reformed then why is there a resistance? Don't they have a regular military? Why are they so understaffed when going up against such a threat? None of it is logical past the desire to "have something like the Empire because nostalgia!"

The Rogue One script is just such nonsense. It's so massively unsatisfying, and everything about it is so like, blah and generic and underachieving. There's a brain slug that drives you insane, and the character it's used on shows almost no aftereffects? That's such a wasted opportunity, why doesn't his recuperation take longer? That might actually be interesting. Couldn't we get more body horror imagery from Saw Gerrera? Why does he stay behind? It's hardly a sacrifice. This applies to the whole movie, everything in it comes up short and fails to pay off. It's crushingly unimaginative.

i agree with your post except for this statement. i think there is an awful lot of nonsense baked into the prequels political plots. but no need to go all RedLetterMedia in here.

Just to elaborate a little more on the last two, because me and my buddies do debate this stuff. Not that we are some kind of Star Wars geeks. Cause we're not. But I think a lot of people here are of a "certain age" where you saw the originals, so I think that puts everything in a context that younger people will never get. They just won't be able to understand what it was like in 1977 when the first movie came out. It was truly epic. We couldn't stop talking about it. Everyone talked about it. Who knows how many times we went back to see it. In the ensuing years it was a constant peeing in the pants in anticipation to see the next two. We bought tickets for those weeks in advance. We waited in massive lines. Regardless of the shortcomings we find today, we were not disappointed.

Skipping ahead now, and pretending 1-2-3 never happened.

7 was a combination of cool stuff and a bitter disappointment. Who doesn't like to see X-Wings and the Millennium Falcon and all that stuff done up with modern CGI? It looked awesome. It was just so unbelievable (for me) to sit there and watch the plot develop into the same movie that had been done TWICE before. And then it was obvious to anyone that they totally dissed everything to do with learning to be a Jedi and handle a light sabre when a completely unexperienced doofus picks it right up. Plus the villain was just a dork.

RO at least had a different plot. Nothing fancy, but I liked the general idea of it. After all, now think way back (for those who can) to 1977. What is one of the things we used to complain about the original? Isn't it CONVENIENT that there is this little hole that you can shoot a rocket into and blow up the entire death star, why would that be there, what are they idiots, blah blah blah.... Well, now we know don't we? It was put there by an insider from the rebels. DUH! I didn't mind the story of how that all took place. It fits, it makes sense. The short extension cord and the emergency button at the end of a long crane on top of a long building were - kinda dumb. Slowed it down. But all in all I did enjoy it.

I'm going to admit I was a total sucker for the ending. I get why a lot of people didn't like it. It wasn't right, it didn't go that way, Vader wasn't like that, Leia looked weird etc etc etc. I do get all that. Nonetheless, to me, it was awesome the way they tied it in to the original. I liked it and I'll admit it brought a tear to my eye so there. That was a feeling of nostalgia more than anything else. I thought Leia's appearance looked OK and fit in well, and now of course it is all the more bittersweet with the passing of Carrie Fisher.

In the end, its always good to remember, they're still just movies. When you get down to it, there really are only a small handful of movies that are true classics and works of art. That's another whole debate. But we will see less and less anything original as globalization takes over. Just look at the box office numbers of the latest movies and you can see the USA market is just a sliver. Why do you think everyone else gets to see GOTG2 first?