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(Topic ID: 77501)

are sega pinballs any good?


By bobbyt

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 195 posts
  • 115 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Hwawonyu
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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There are 195 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.
#151 6 years ago

I actually really like Sega. I own a bunch: X-Files, SST, MSF, SST, LIS, Star Wars Trilogy, ID4, Maverick, Space Jam, Lost World, Godzilla, and on the way is Apollo 13, and VND.

#152 6 years ago

I've had the opportunity to play some LAH lately, and it's a REALLY fun game.

#153 6 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Lost In Space is my number one game to hook newbies into pinball. Short rule set, easy to achieve multiball and great outer space sounds. I love it too when I'm in the mood to just slap a ball around. Check out this quick video of one of the multiballs:
» YouTube video

Have always thought that was the coolest multi ball start I've ever seen. Wish I could find one of these to play!

#154 6 years ago

I love my two SEGA pins: Goldeneye and Frankenstein. The Goldeneye pin is fantastic!!!

#155 6 years ago

GnR and TftC are excellent, highly recommend giving them a fair shake.

7 months later
#156 5 years ago

I just spent the last hour or so re-reading through this thread. Now that I own my first Sega pin (Goldeneye 007, specifically), and now that I have spent a lot more time on them thanks to my recent visit to PAPA (Independence Day, Apollo 13, Star Wars Trilogy, Batman Forever, Godzilla, Starship Troopers), I feel I can give a better opinion about them.

The short of it is that Sega pins typically aren't deep, and thus they aren't likely to last long in a small collection. Scoring big points tends to be a mix of grinding out modes repeatedly and playing the same multi-balls over and over again, with the later being a major focus that is easily attainable in certain titles. Repetition is the name of the game here, and while they may be a blast in short bursts, the games probably won't last long in a collection unless there is a nice variety of other games to go along with them.

What I have found though is that Sega pins are exciting to play for the first time, at least for me. While they aren't typically deep, many ARE confusing. It is not obvious what you should be doing, and many games barely indicate your objectives properly or even at all (Independence Day, I'm looking at you). This is bad for the casual player, but if you have a genuine interest in figuring out what everything does on a playfield and are up for experimenting, you are bound to garner enjoyment out of some of these games--even the supposed "bad" ones (again, Independence Day, I'm looking at you). That said, it takes work to enjoy them, which counters what I think most people want.

So does that mean you have to be a hardcore player to get the most out of a Sega pin? Well, actually, no. While it takes work to figure out what makes a lot of Sega machines "tick" and that's a lot of the fun, there's typically little there for the hardcore/rules-oriented player to take their game to the next level. The rules simply don't allow them to. Modes are rigid and inflexible, stacking is usually something that isn't allowed, and if a wizard mode is there, it tends to be an afterthought. So, what you have are games that often times require a certain level of dedication to get into, but don't actually have enough there to keep those dedicated players reeled in. The games become boring.

SEGA pins sit in this weird area for me because of this. They are games that are intriguing to me because they are so vague and confusing on a surface level, but once you crack their puzzles you realize that, deep down, you have a pretty basic, cookie-cutter foundation. It's like the games were developed to a certain point, then the developers said, "that's good enough," then rushed the product out the door. I don't doubt this was something that actually happened, which is a damn shame.

#157 5 years ago

I've had a BW for 6 months and am very happy with it. It feels and plays different, but still very enjoyable. Tons of ramps, good modes,5 ball multiball...and many corny quotes from the show. The Hoff lives!

#158 5 years ago

Tommy is one of my favorite machines. Yeah, sometimes airballs can be a bit of an issue (especially off that valuable silver ball target worth 20 million after lighting the ramp targets, which are usually lit by accident throughout play) but overall I have a blast playing it. The game isn't incredibly deep. Modes don't actually need to be completed to progress and some of them are outright dangerous to actually play out but the shots feel good and the multiball is a lot of fun. It is a challenging table as the game really punishes you for not keeping the ball in control. The slings and outlanes are evil if you aren't careful.

I haven't played Tales from the Crypt much but it has a lot of similarities to Tommy in terms of gameplay only with a different playfield layout and I've enjoyed it the few times I've played it. I don't ever see myself ranking it above Tommy though.

#159 5 years ago

now that I have apollo13, try prying it from my cold dead hands

#160 5 years ago

Twister looks even better with a ColorDMD installed.Twister Sigma 2.JPGTwister Sigma 1.JPG

#161 5 years ago

I have a lost world Jurassic park and although it doesn't seem like a deep game I doubt I will ever complete the modes......It keeps me coming back though and has a few different multiballs with some hard to shoot inner loop.

#162 5 years ago

I reallz have to recommend Sega Goldeneye! Played it first in Visual Pinball, but was a bit meeh... then I started digging more into it, and settled for one in great shape. Its difficult and very cool, a long lasting pin!

Also its from the period just before Sega started to become "cheaper" in every way, so the machine feels generally solid and good.

#163 5 years ago
Quoted from Edenecho:

I reallz have to recommend Sega Goldeneye! ... Its difficult and very cool, a long lasting pin!

I'm just curious, but what do you find difficult about it?

It certainly has a lot on it though and it makes it feel more like a game that had some time and effort put into it versus some of the later Sega pins. The moving satellite, the rising mini ramp, the satellite magnet, the tank diverter on the right ramp, the magnet grabbing the ball between the flippers, and the mode scoop that fires the ball back at you during multiball--there's a lot going on here in a good way and it all works well together. The rules are far from perfect but you get more here than you do on a lot of other later Sega pins from what I can tell.

#164 5 years ago
Quoted from Edenecho:

I reallz have to recommend Sega Goldeneye! Played it first in Visual Pinball, but was a bit meeh... then I started digging more into it, and settled for one in great shape. Its difficult and very cool, a long lasting pin!
Also its from the period just before Sega started to become "cheaper" in every way, so the machine feels generally solid and good.

I agree, it has stereo sound and the light etc. on my Goldeneye is better than my Transformers Pro.
It feels like it was build before they started being cheap, with fluorescent light, mono sound, less toys etc.

#165 5 years ago
Quoted from akm:

I'm just curious, but what do you find difficult about it?
It certainly has a lot on it though and it makes it feel more like a game that had some time and effort put into it versus some of the later Sega pins. The moving satellite, the rising mini ramp, the satellite magnet, the tank diverter on the right ramp, the magnet grabbing the ball between the flippers, and the mode scoop that fires the ball back at you during multiball--there's a lot going on here in a good way and it all works well together. The rules are far from perfect but you get more here than you do on a lot of other later Sega pins from what I can tell.

Well, besides the possible chance that I might not be that a skilled pinball player, also the fact that I just havent spent THAT much time playing Goldeneye, what makes it difficult is that it drains the balls to the side darn fast. Almost Addams-Family-right-outlane-drain at times. It can hit a rubber and fly into outlanes faster than i can blink. Also, getting superjackpot is very difficult, there is no ball save and the balls have the "everybody out of the pool" tendency alot. Third, I find finishing Q's Pen a real bitch, but that makes it even better the times I accomplish it. Still havent come to wizard mode tho =)

How is yours when it comes to outlane drains?

#166 5 years ago

Edenecho, I would wholeheartedly agree! GoldenEye kicks my ass, I'm not a terrible player either.......I'd agree about the drains, that whole "center area" if you don't hit the ramps can be a nightmare once the slings get your ball - also the ramp shots are tight and need to be hit just right - can't tell you how often I miss the multiball ramp!!!!

Modes are hard - getting all the gaurds? Right.

#167 5 years ago
Quoted from Edenecho:

getting superjackpot is very difficult

+1

Quoted from Edenecho:

finishing Q's Pen a real bitch

+1

Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

Modes are hard - getting all the gaurds? Right.

+1

Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

can't tell you how often I miss the multiball ramp

+1

One thing is the gameplay but of the machines I have owned goldeneye is the one guests think is the must beautiful/appealing (Has LEDs). You can see my restoration here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sega-goldeneye-restoration

#168 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Twister looks even better with a ColorDMD installed.Twister Sigma 2.JPG (Click image to enlarge)Twister Sigma 1.JPG (Click image to enlarge)

nice.. how did the fit go ? any adjustments necessary .

#169 5 years ago
Quoted from RonB:

Markus Rothkranz, self proclaimed top pinball artist. Yeah ok.

Now I know the name of my least favorite artist.

#170 5 years ago
Quoted from ledge:

nice.. how did the fit go ? any adjustments necessary .

I had to drill 4 new mounting holes in the bracket to set up into the speaker panel, so that speaker panel can lock into place at the bottom of the backbox. Also had to make some new standoffs as the ones in the speaker panel were too long.
Otherwise, the electrical connections are the same to ColorDMD as in LOTR.

#171 5 years ago

Its funny so many don't like the clicking relay's. My first experience with owning a Sega/Data East was Frankenstein. I loved the clicking it reminded me of lightning gave the game some mechanical depth, I felt like things were happening. With that being said. I have owned Frankenstein, Star Wars, Star Trek and Rocky and Bullwinkle. All were incredible games and under rated especially Frank, Star Trek and Rocky. Great Sound and Dots too!!! Only knock I have is all of these games have a lag between balls for point calculation, I get excited to get going on next ball and have to wait an extra 10 seconds for all the point totaling animations which i wish you could skip.

#172 5 years ago
Quoted from Edenecho:

Well, besides the possible chance that I might not be that a skilled pinball player, also the fact that I just havent spent THAT much time playing Goldeneye, what makes it difficult is that it drains the balls to the side darn fast. Almost Addams-Family-right-outlane-drain at times. It can hit a rubber and fly into outlanes faster than i can blink. Also, getting superjackpot is very difficult, there is no ball save and the balls have the "everybody out of the pool" tendency alot. Third, I find finishing Q's Pen a real bitch, but that makes it even better the times I accomplish it. Still havent come to wizard mode tho =)
How is yours when it comes to outlane drains?

Haha, gotcha.. Goldeneye is definitely a game where you have to be able to stop and control the ball. Playing on the fly (making ramp combos aside) generally isn't a good idea from what I have experienced. Precise aiming is necessary too since the ramps are a little tight, but they aren't that bad. Fortunately the far left and right ramps are in the same positions that normal orbits would be in, so if you are good with orbit shots you should have no problem with two of the ramps on the game.

I can see Q's Pen Grenade being the most difficult for most people. On my game, the standups don't register half the time either which makes it more annoying for me than anything. The unpredictable bounce off those targets makes it harder to get control, too. Sometimes you are just screwed because the mode only lasts 10 seconds or so and the ball lands in the slings which drains your chance for completing it. It's definitely one of the more luck-based modes in the game, because sometimes you just can't even get the ball to shoot at the targets (and if you do, you need to do it three times).

As far as outlane drains on mine, I haven't found it to be very drainy. The slings are strong though and I have had a few where the ball hits a sling and flies straight into the opposite outlane.

Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

Modes are hard - getting all the gaurds? Right.

On my machine the hardest part of this mode is actually getting my standups to register. I've yet to complete this mode once because of that. If my standups worked every time then I don't think the mode is that bad, as long as you can get control. Backhanding the targets works so much better and is safer than hitting them via a forward-hand from the opposite flipper.

Fortunately, you don't have to complete this mode though and if you are playing for points it's better to just go for ramp combos and build those Goldeneye letters.

#173 5 years ago

akm, you might want to try cleaning the contacts on your targets.......also check what the gap is, maybe your gap is too wide so it requires a stronger hit? Just an idea.

Yeah, the modes don't have to be completed but it's fun to try.......one thing I HATE about Segas are the "pity multiball" modes on the 3rd ball - hate that.

GoldenEye has a wicked-bad ball hop off the left wireform also - still trying to correct that!

#174 5 years ago

no. horrible. sell them all to me

#175 5 years ago
Quoted from Gerry:

A SEGA is really a Stern for all intensive purpose's...
So if ya think Sterns are good then Sega's must be too...

This. I've owned DESW (DataEast game) and SWT (Sega game) and both had pretty much the same feel.......the same feel as current stern games...which people around here seem to love.

There is a difference in feel between them and Bally/Williams games, but again if you are ok and love current stern titles then you should have no reason to knock the "feel" of a DE or Sega game.

I will say that alot of DE games seem to have similar sounds.

#176 5 years ago

Honestly, I felt a difference between DE pins and Sega pins. Segas felt cheap. Also, the artwork was generally not the best.

I do like DE pins, but not Sega pins, with exception of maybe franky.

#177 5 years ago

As an owner of Twister, I felt the need to chime in. I love it. The cabinet art, the ramp, the loop, the drop target, the cow, the multi-balls... That skill shot is really unique!

tl;dr: Great 90's budget pin

#178 5 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Honestly, I felt a difference between DE pins and Sega pins. Segas felt cheap.

I have to second this, with the exception of Goldeneye and Baywatch, which almost feels more like DE machines. Although I enjoy Sega pins, I feel its wrong to say that Stern, Sega and DE are the same, because while it may be Gary all the way, the actual machines feel different and also I feel Stern games have become much deeper than most Sega-era games. Just stating facts =)

Sega machines are usually good bang for the buck, and its nice that we have those to choose from

#179 5 years ago

I own Batman Forever and Twister. I keep thinking that I need to switch one out and trade for a different game but I never do. Batman Forever has so many modes going on and is a beautiful widebody game. Especially with LED's. Twister OTOH, is fast, furious and so unique especially living here in Oklahoma with all the Oklahoma stuff built into the game. The multiball is so cool and unique, plus, it was a near basket case game when I got it and have put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into it. It is a Belgian reimport (funny that it ended up in Oklahoma of all places).

So yeah, I guess I like Sega/DE/ games.

Why be a brand snob when there are so many good games out there? From a purely financial standpoint, I would have a hard time parting with $5K+ for a 20 year old B/W game regardless of what it is.

I guess my only solution is to buy another instead of trading!

#180 5 years ago

Sets gets a bad rap. And to a lesser extent Data east

Generally they are shallow working in the pinball world less desirable than the Williams Valley titles of the early to mid 90s

It's all up to the pinball player what you like! If you like one of those games it's great because they are priced less and you can get probably two -four of them for the price of one of the WPC games!

#181 5 years ago

Ahhh sorry about that last message! I promise not to SIRI again. My bad!

#182 5 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Honestly, I felt a difference between DE pins and Sega pins. Segas felt cheap. Also, the artwork was generally not the best.

DE don;t feel cheap and have good artwork?

#183 5 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

DE don;t feel cheap and have good artwork?

better than segas!

#184 5 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

better than segas!

Tough call...tough. Classic match up of horrible drawn art versus horrible Photoshop 1.0 work
Can't believe I'm saying this but I might take the Sega work. Not an easy decision though

#185 5 years ago

That was the distinction for me. The photoshop stuff versus the drawn. I prefer the drawn stuff. More original I guess.

Either way, Williams/Bally trumps all for me.

#186 5 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

That was the distinction for me. The photoshop stuff versus the drawn. I prefer the drawn stuff. More original I guess.
Either way, Williams/Bally trumps all for me.

Every single SEGA pin is better than at least 1 other B/W pin...

#187 5 years ago
Quoted from tamoore:

Every single SEGA pin is better than at least 1 other B/W pin...

Hmmm.. Are we talking system 11 and up? Systems 4-9?

If we're talking system 11 and up, I'd rather own a Big Guns than a south park any day.

#188 5 years ago

I love my Starship Troopers:

Clear out the planets outlying Klendathu one at a time!

#189 5 years ago

I've owned several Sega and Data East games in the past and have enjoyed nearly all of them. One of my favorites is Frankenstein, which I've owned twice now. I somewhat prefer Bally/Williams games overall in general but don't ever discriminate about the brands when I have an opportunity to buy a game that I have never owned before.

#190 5 years ago

What a load of crap

#191 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

akm, you might want to try cleaning the contacts on your targets.......also check what the gap is, maybe your gap is too wide so it requires a stronger hit? Just an idea.

Yeah, totally! It's on the to-do list. I've had the machine for two weeks now and so first things first, was getting the rest of the bulbs swapped out to LEDs along with replacing the rubbers (required taking the ramps and plastics off, since nothing GI-wise can be done underside on this game.. ugh). Next up on the list is getting a variety of switches adjusted, which includes the top lanes that aren't registering all the time just like the standups. I'll probably get to that next weekend.

Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

Yeah, the modes don't have to be completed but it's fun to try.......one thing I HATE about Segas are the "pity multiball" modes on the 3rd ball - hate that.
GoldenEye has a wicked-bad ball hop off the left wireform also - still trying to correct that!

Haha, yeah, I hear you! It depends on the kind of game I'm going for (play for high score, or just messing around?). If it's the later, I definitely try to complete the mode, and it's definitely satisfying to do so. I just wish there was more of a payoff to actually complete the mode, then I would also do it when playing for high score, too.

I don't mind the pity multiball, but, that might be because I rarely qualify for it. Multiball is so easy to get that I end up playing it many times in a typical game.

#192 5 years ago

A strange or mayhaps just a "different" thing is that the modes on Goldeneye scores often downwards. First shot scores 20 mill, next 15 mill, 10 mill etc. just an ...interesting variation.

-5
#193 5 years ago
Quoted from Gerry:

A SEGA is really a Stern for all intensive purpose's...
So if ya think Sterns are good then Sega's must be too...

intensive purpose's

Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!

Intents and purposes.......

I bet you like "there" games too!

Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!

Thanks for the laughs!

#194 5 years ago

To totally dismiss any manufacturer is foolishness. All of them made their share of very good games as well as some stinkers. While many Sega pins lack depth, Baywatch and Batman Forever are certainly exceptions to that rule and both are great games! Data East made many great games such as TFTC and Tommy in the DMD era and Phantom of the Opera and Time Machine pre-DMD.

#195 5 years ago

Yup now sell me your a Star ship troopers

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