That's like asking "Are white people nice?"

It varies wildly.

From a player's perspective, Godzilla is a fun game.
The multiball rules are solid, making you want to stack them together.
Trying to get all five mbs stacked before starting is enjoyable.

Easily my favorite Sega.

Segas....not so much.

Uh, South Park was one of their best sellers. They made several runs of it.

Thanks for playing anyway........

Twister is great! One of my first games, and still gets lots of play. By everybody.

You are sooooo misguided....

Yes, Segas and DE pins suck.

(I don't think that, but I'll gladly let the unwashed masses think that. Keeps some good games at great price points.)

There are some good once and bad and some very bad. Its just B/W made lost more good titles.

But seriously, I really enjoyed Starship Troopers. Still own Baywatch, TFTC and LW3 and while LW3 will likely be sold soon to make room, BW and TFTC are staying for a long while.

Funny thing about Baywatch when pinheads deride the theme....no under 30 knows what the Baywatch show was. To my kids and younger friends, it's just a Coast Guard/Rescue beach theme. And a wonderful Coast Guard/rescue theme. All those ramps too!

But I can tell the difference in feel of the Sega/DE games now that I just got a No Fear. Definitely a more solid feeling gameplay - the DE games I have get airballs when hitting targets hard,etc.

Coming from you I almost take that as a compliment

I have only owned one Sega (Apollo 13), and it was fun. I ended up selling it to make room for a game that I like more (Metallica), but I did like it.

I know a lot of people think that B/W games are better, but definitely give the DE/Sega/Stern games a shot. My 3 favorite games right now do not include a single B/W title. Well, they don't include a Sega title either, but they are all the same company, and the games all have evolved from the DE stuff.

I always had a soft spot for Data East and SEGA machines. While, of course, they aren't perfect... I can still enjoy games on Tommy & Viper Night Driving. Just because a game looks bad doesn't mean I screw it over.

there's a few data east games I really enjoy. Time Machine is one of my favorites.
don't own any though. as long as they are nice and playing properly there's very few that "suck".

Lost in Space is my number one game to hook newbies into pinball. Short rule set, easy to achieve multiball and great outer space sounds. I love it too when I'm in the mood to just slap a ball around. Check out this quick video of one of the multiballs:

I love my Maverick, and I love Goldeneye on location. Nothing wrong with them as a manufacturer, they play as well as the the Bally/Williams in my opinion.

DE are much better than Sega IMO.

GnR and TFTC are superior to many B/W and Sterns as well. Those two seem to rise above the rest.

A friend had said that DE/SEGA's are like older-modern Sterns (given the history, you can see why)...and I agree. A lot of the titles, when cleaned up and tastefully bulbed, could easily be confused for a 2000 era Stern with hand-drawn artwork. Either that's a testament to DE/SEGA or a reflection of how little Stern has evolved their games. I'm not about to choose sides on that one. The point is, I don't see how someone could dig post 2001 Stern and not find a 90's era SEGA/DE that could be a nice fit.

Personally, WWFRR is probably my favorite of the DE/SEGA bunch and I don't see giving mine up (I searched too hard and put a lot into it ). Clever gameplay design both in rules and physical layout. DE suffers from this obsession with recycling Adams Family's mode structure, including how you light/start modes. WWFRR handles it the best, putting mode light activation on a ramp that is also tied to other objectives, and two mode scoops. I've said it before, but it rewards shot efficiency. One of the most useful mini-playfields in pinball as well. You wind up playing it a lot and it's valuable. Great use of the theme, regardless of if you like wrasslin.

Godzilla is a blast if set up difficult. The game style can be like a tough Iron Man or an early 80's title, where there are little to no modes outside of multiball. Just a simple challenge: stack all five multiballs.

TFTC is enjoyable, but that mode scoop's kick out needs to be on point so you can either live catch/drop catch off the right flipper or dead flipper bounce to left depending on which spinner lights the next mode. I feel it's also a bit too tough to hit off a lower flipper, which annoys me when so much is tied to it. Otherwise, it's a solid title.

GnR was the king of music games until AC/DC and Metallica showed up to the party. Nuff' said there.

Baywatch I've only played once or twice, but it had a lot of crazy shit going on. It gets a thumbs up from me, but I also recognize that I need to play it more to form a solid opinion.

Frankenstein doesn't get discussed very much, but I enjoy it as well. My experience is that modes are more challenging than other DE/SEGA games to start. Don't know if anyone agrees with that.

Jurassic Park is a great budget Addam's Family. There are differences, but whenever I am getting the urge to play AF, this is a great substitute. My big complaint: the sound sucks. It's grating as hell. If anyone is hacking this game, please, try to make the audio more pleasant. Is it the audio clips? The sound board? Why does this game sound so fucking screechy?!? It has some of my favorite DMD animations as well. Plus, Dinosaurs. That auto +1's the cool factor of everything.

Maverick...I don't remember. We had it in league for a bit, but everyone was annoyed with how slow the damn wheel took to lock a ball.

Batman Forever I've heard good things. Have a friend's folded up in the garage with a broken display (gawd damned large displays...fuck!)...wish I could set it up and give it a try so I could come back with an educated opinion.

Star Wars Trilogy...not into it. This is a game that desperately needs a custom ROM hack with a completely new set of rules. The layout is interesting to me. You have elegant sweeping loop and ramp shots that flank a lot of dangerous shit in the middle. I think with the right rules, the physical layout could really work. A side note: I've helped a friend whose head was underneath the hood of two of these things and that damned trench cannon magnet for loading the X-Wing is troublesome as hell.

Star Wars...into it. Haven't tried the new rules. Right now, it is the money Star Wars pinball game.

That's all that comes to mind...excuse my opinion dump.

I'm fairly certain someone is working or about to begin working on new code. Maybe search Pinside to verify. (Jurassic Park)

What happened?

I just had a ridiculously good time playing Twister at o-dins!! How come nobody told me it had a spinner orbit like that?!

Come back tomorrow! We can play more!

i agree. very cool pins. ill add batman forever and Frankenstein as well.

DE had some good tables, but until Maverick, it was like the exact same rule set, just a different physical machine, alll the modes were the same on most machines. MB always ready for 3rd ball, jackpots are always ramps, with a super for an orbit or some inner shot, something that went on into Sega as well. While you can have one or two in a lineup up, more really exemplifies this point.

That transition into Sega made some interesting machines. I love Maverick myself, I consider it the best (to me) of any DE and Sega, I can’t get enough of it. I’m surprised with the BF comments though. I had one, and although the PF is very interesting, the final Forever MB is cool, and the few modes are well done, there are only 5 playing modes, one insanely repetitive vid mode, and not a lot else going on. A rule update on BF would be epic.

As for later Sega’s, they started stripping out all the toys and scoops and made everything really top level, which resulted in games with little stopping, which now is appreciated as “flow”. Flow really means, regardless if you like flow or not, cheap design where we can’t afford to implement stops for cool toys/eye candy. But in that came a lot off flow games, SJ being one of my favs.

I very much agree with this. I've got Frankenstein, LAH, and JP lined up together. I start people on LAH or JP becuse I can tell them to hit the lit scoop to start the mode, then when they sort of know what they are doing I move them over to Frankenstein. Instead of just lighting the scoop and hitting it, you've got to hit all 12 FRANKENSTEIN targets to activate the mode, and they are spread out enough that you've got to practice decent ball control. Luckily it will spot you letters at the beginning of a new ball or if you hit certain shots, but it is still more of a challenge. It's similar to the JP/TAF layout, but feels completely different with all that you've got to do.

I think LAH I'd highly underrated.

As a previous owner of a Last Action Hero, I'm not the biggest fan of the Data East DMD-era pins. Don't get me wrong, there are some great DE DMD pins (GnR, TFTC, Tommy), but I feel they are generally the exception to the rule. I was never a fan of the harsh hand-drawn style many DE games had (never pleasing to the eye, IMO, especially when sat next to a Bally/Williams of the same era) and the rulesets were often copy-pasted. I didn't care for the sound effect packages either, many sounds of which were re-used from game to game, which cheapens the feel of the games. This improved with Sega titles, but those were marred by horrendous sound setups in certain games.

Tommy, GNR, TFTC, and JP are very good. For Sega I like Twister and SST.

I forgot about that one. I kicked its butt at PAPA and had a great time doing it. Had to leave it with earned credits

Haven't played any of the Segas, but as far as DE goes, one that hasn't been mentioned is POTO. Yes, the ruleset is simple, but it is a fair challenge to get a max jackpot, and the Phantom millions is a fun route to try as well. Plus, it usually can be had for fairly cheap (seen them listed for under $1,500 fairly regularly). Also, I think the artwork is one of the best out of all the DEs I have seen. just a thought.

I love my Sega/DE pins. Biggest complaint is the inability to disable the "gimme" multiball on the last ball.

I really like DE and Sega games but they usually only last for a month or 2 in my collection. Not that I'm one to keep any pin for more than a year or so but the Sega's disappear pretty quick. Fun but shallow for the most part.

I'm not sure about all SEGA/DE, but on WWFRR I was able to disable this in the adjustments menu. I selected PAPA tournament settings (which disables the 3rd ball gimme), then went back into adjustments and turned on/off stuff that PAPA settings switch off by default. Like High Scores and Match sequence (yeah...match on a free-play home machine...I think the animation is cool).

I'll be very surprised if this wasn't available on every 90's era DE/SEGA...but like I said, I can only speak for WWFRR.

Depends on the machine, you can make multiball harder to get in the menu on some of them.

My pal tamoore has a whole "Sega Row" and I love it! They are really fun, really underrated pins! I think I lean towards Godzilla myself but SST and Viper are sweet as well. Baywatch has a lot going on and while the theme might be "meh" at best, it is a fun pin to play. Batman Forever is a bit of a STTNG clone on the layout (an not near as fun) but still has some unique features and fun modes.

then theres DE robocop great theme. not particularly deep, but good fun, some good shots.. good calls out, and nice backglass and sound.

Sega made some really FUN games..

Star Wars Trilogy
JP the lost world
Space Jam
Twister
Batman Forever
South Park
Godzilla
Star Ship Troopers..

DE had some really fun games as well
Last Action Hero
Lethal Weapon 3
Star Wars
Batman

They might not be the deepest games, but they are a blast to play..

But man are Sega parts just not anywhere to be found on most of them!!!

I like most all Data East pins except JP but the only Sega pin I really like is Golden Eye.

One Data East not mentioned that I think is underrated is The Simpsons.

OMG, I'm agreeing with Neo!!

Love my Godzilla!!!

Back in the day when B/W and DE were going head to head in the early 90's, both companies were turning out games at a pace that would seem insane today, and most of them were very good. However, when I went to buy a game to put on route, it was always the B/W games I went with, because of the better art and sound, just no comparison.

Different " feel " to the Data East / Sega than B/W . I like them . Data East and Sega have had lots of undeserved bashing over the years . From the original purpose ( make money for route operators ) perspective , seemed profitable . Most of my route operator contacts said South Park was real moneymaker FYI . Play a example of whatever title you seek . In the end yours is the only opinion ( maybe the wife ) that counts . Shane

Twister is a good one, it's the only game my dad has at his place that mum wont let him sell. They have a Rocky and Bullwinkle at Pizza N Pinball, it's a great game that gets lots of love, same with TMNT.

After 15 years, I think that I have finally figured out why DE gets *some* of the bashing that they do.

Before I say this, from what I was told by people who routed games back 'in the day', DE machines made more money quickly, but were more prone to breakage in the field than their Williams counterparts, which once they were tuned in tended to keep working for a long time. Because of this, it's really quite rare to see any DE machines on route today, and they were given in many ways 'second-citizenship' by a lot of players because you want to own what you remember, and if JP only lasted one year on route because the stupid dino kept burning out it's motor (and it did, check the service bulletins), then you as a player are going to remember that TAF that lasted for 15 years a lot more instead, and that's what you are going to want.

I have been a DE defender for a long, long time, but I mentioned this seven months ago and the more I play, the more true it is - DE really recycled their code on machines. A LOT. I have JP, Tommy, TFTC and WWFRR, and it drives me somewhat nuts to play them all in order because the rulesets are basically the exact same - start a mode, and then you get a goal that is the same each time, with little newness based on layout. I just got TFTC up and working, and as soon as I started the modes it felt exactly like I was playing JP.

Now, I think that JP is an outstanding game, but the lack of creativity game to game on the rules does feel stale to me. On the flip side, during the same time Williams was experimenting with their rulesets, and DM, Popeye, JD and WCS94, to name four machines that I have from B/W from the same era, all have completely different goals per machine.

While it doesn't make me think any less of the DE machines that there are (they are still great), it gives me far less of a reason to try to get any others, as I already have my DE "mode-fest" game four times over.

Sega pins, which this conversation originally started as, is when they started to experiment with their rules. Sometimes, Sega pins end up with surprisingly awesome, deep rulesets, although they are really hard to figure out at first (VND, looking at you). Sometimes, they ended up with completely miserable rulesets (ID4, I'm looking at you). And sometimes they are in the middle. But, the four Segas that I own (VND, SST, BF and Baywatch) all have a completely different feel to one another that I definitely don't get from my four DE DMDs. I'd actually argue that because the Sega rulesets are so varied, as a body of work Sega might have a stronger portfolio than the DE DMDs, if you're looking as a group. Individually though, Sega has more "bad games."

Stern games do in many ways feel like a continuation of the Sega game's rulesets, except they really started to figure out ways to do it that wouldn't stink. Even the early "bad" Stern games like Striker Extreme, I think that the ruleset is far better than people give it credit for. The only two reasons that people don't like that game more is that they don't love the theme and the playfield design had a few issues where the game could really hurt the player (VUK with too many balls in it, upper flipper ramp shot nearly impossible, etc). Once Stern ironed out the playfield design, I think that overall the creativity of the rules and the playsets are simply outstanding, and even their so called "bad" games like Striker Extreme I think are a lot of fun to play. Their portfolio, in my opinion, is the strongest of the three.

Whew, holy crap, I just typed a lot. Uh... sorry?

I own Baywatch & LW3. Love them both. Wish I had a Batman.

if i had the room, id love a baywatch and LW3.

that baywatch cabinet art. YES. ;P

I am surprised MSF is not mentioned more here . Frankenstein is a great Borg layout with 8 modes and they are fun and challenging. Art package is cool and the moving Frankenstein that throws the balls at you is one of the best toys ever. I do not think there is a better Sega. This game is better than a lot of B/W'S and Sterns.

Yeah, but I just cant get over how bad the sound is on that game.

+1

Huh? It think it sounds awesome. I normally play with the soundtrack option, and it blows the socks off my LAH and JP in terms of clarity and purity. LAH is even hooked to an external powered sub and has upgraded backbox speakers, and Frank still sounds better. I'm going to move the sub over to Frank just as soon as my husband's knee is healed enough to crawl under them and rewire everything. The only 'bad sound' I can think of is "Who am I?" every 3 seconds, but that's just annoying.

The art package is also way better than the DEs beside it at my house. I mean, I love me some Data East, but just look at the hands on LAH/JP then look at the detailed hands on the Frankenstein characters. I think the cabinet is one of the nicest art packages around. I was amazed at the detail on places that are normally covered when I shopped mine awhile back, and keep finding little things here and there. Paul Faris usually gets praised for Centaur, but I think he did great on this one too.