In the running for top 5 Pinside posts of 2022

Any mod that has an LED strip at its core has always seemed super suspect to me. Those off the shelf fans, pinstadiums, countless speaker mods. The markup is just insane. I can't say I blame them though plenty of people in pinball think the more it cost the more they need it.

I should clarify several LED shop place sell precut strips with convenient connectors at a reasonable price. I have no issue there, I am referring to the $50-500 price tag for what is $2 worth of LEDs and a remote anyone can buy online.

Or just owning any spike machines; the brightest things to begin with

Somehow, there became a demand to play in the dark, and turn your pinball lights in its entirety bright white.

It never registered with me, and I just attribute it to my old eyes. Im completely happy lighting my Pinball room,
to the brightness that allows me to play, and see the room. ie, turn on the light switch.

But I do, and did recognize that some games can benefit with some help. So some games get 6.3v Matrix strips,
with Brightness adjusted, frosted, in up to 20" lengths. I made this for that purpose.
20" across the back, or apron/front bar. several down the side, if it needed it, and I didnt think many did, all tied to
GI, through Plug and play bulb tap. Many different lights, Spots, circles and pads to tap into 6 volt or 12 volt.

For only my TZ, I used side angle strips, that are very thin, and black, and stuck to the bottom of my glass.
Not super bright, but bright enough for always on, or tapped into GI/Flasher/Optical sensor etc.

But I do respect that Pinstadium made an outstanding business, with lots of features and options.
If you like them, buy them.

or make your own, or control your lighting in a different way. If the only issue is cost, many of the solutions address
this. If the point was for someone to knock him off to save you some money, it happens, but maybe it shouldnt?

You start a pukestadium thread and this will happen 100% of the time

if you can spend 8-10K on a game without question then you spend $350 pinstadium lights.

I can but I sure won't!

Ace got the boot and went inactive.

Does anyone remember when HemiOrange09 offered a real deal alternative that looked great and was half the price?

That’s the answer to the OP’s question. Unfortunately there was some behind the scenes complaining and he ended up closing shop on them. Never really understood why - competition is healthy.

TheLaw sends another one packing, Bookmarked!

Ha good point!
The cult went after him hard on that one.

Well, Ace left.

In a small niche hobby selling mods your probably better off charging top dollar selling less then trying to produce more cheaper budget products.

I remember when there was an official moderator policy that all Pinstadium talk had to be contained in the thread dedicated to his product and any other threads discussing it, or discussing it in other threads got shut down quickly.

That can't be right. That would some serious censorship.

It might have been to curtail hawking of the product in every thread about any game. Because there was a lot of that going on.

Funny.

DIdn't Pinstadium have some kind of incentive program where if you shilled their product on Pinside, you'd get a discount?

Or was that just a weird fever dream I had?

The first rule of Pinstadium Spam Club is don't talk about Pinstadium Spam Club.

Just your standard bullshit pinside rumor started mainly by people who refused to believe some pinsiders really like the product. But epthegeek is right, it was a "truce" of sorts the moderators laid out so he wouldn't advertise them in every single game thread and the people who hate them wouldn't go into his product thread and trash them and anyone who asked about them.

Oh shit, no wonder people hate them. That would be annoying. This was either before I joined or when I took a break because I do not remeber this going on.

No no I kinda remember that too. They had some sort of deal where if you gave a review in public you would get a discount or something and it led to a bunch of people making posts about it.

Yeah, the Pinstadium promo spam was an epidemic for a while. They had ads carpet-bombed all over the site, even linked to games (like early SS and I wouldn't doubt an EM or two) where support/usage was questionable at best. It was honestly ridiculous. Any game, and thread, you'd see links to multiple Pinstadium / Neo / Geo / Fusion / Fission / Hyperbole / WTF / GTFO versions before anything you might actually be interested in. I don't recall now what specific ad/promo policy terms developed out of that, but the "truce" if you will, has made things reasonably tolerable since.

I was given a set of the original type (pre-stupid-names) when they first came out, since I agreed to demo them at a show. It was a nice product and I can see the appeal for certain games/enviros. But overpriced then IMO and it's only gotten stupider since. I don't use them in my games, but keep that set around just in case I acquire a dark one or something.

This statement seems to be false!

The spam was brutal for a while, you couldn't search for any parts or mods on the market without having pages and pages of Pinstadiums.

I would love to see these in just white with a light diffuser and simple GI connection.

Is it really weird to want to play in low overhead light at home? Lots of barcades are dim lit. I play in my basement and either dim my recessed LEDs or turn them off completely.

If you want to save on electricity, you for sure can play during the day. Daylight is free! ;o)

Maybe it's me, but even with incandescent bulbs, I do not need the illumination to be more bright to enjoy the game and to see what's going on.

Join the dark side! ;o)

Cheers,

Chris

Negative, I know Scott and to my knowledge this was never offered. He had some people test some kits for streaming when he was developing that variant but no one I know ever got a discount for posting a review. So unless someone has some kind of proof of it happening I'll continue to call bullshit on that rumor

I guess my problem is when I think 'hobby' I think not trying to scalp your fellow hobbyists and a sharing of information. Not trying to build an empire off of them.

I haven't done any pinball mods in years, but I'm tinkering with a new version of an old one right now. Someone commissioned it from me and got me motivated, and I'll make a thread sometime soon to see if anyone else wants one. Frankly they're not going to be cheap, because they're high touch labor to fabricate from scratch.

And if people want me to make some cool. If not that's okay too. But they're creative projects that are unique and the value is kinda whatever people feel like it is. That's my version of "sell less for more". Making some cool limited pieces that make people happy.

I don't hate on anyone selling lights. But end of the day it's just some LEDs. If you get 'knocked off' because someone else makes a way to mount LED strips or fans or whatever that's what happens when your product isn't actually that creative. Making brackets in this age of 3D printing and maker tools isn't hard. It's gonna happen if that's what you're really offering, even if you were "first".

To each his own. What a hobby!

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I have zero affiliation with Pinstadium and have even less reason to reply to this thread other than to let you lovely pinfolk know, like any mod used tastefully (Pinstadiums or DIY versions of) can improve your pinball playing experience if you allow yourself a chance to try it without prejudice.

I own 2 "legit" Pinstadiums and a number of DIY versions of. I run them at between 5-10% of maximum strength, just enough to fill in the shadows. And to my eyes, the pinball machines running PinStadiums "at an appropriate volume" offer the same lighting experience designed from factory, however are easier on the eyes in darker situations, making tracking of the ball easier, shooting easier etc etc. Far better than adding extra led floodlights etc. If your eyes are less then perfect, at least consider a global lighting improvement an option.

I get plenty of old schoolers hate on them, especially with PinStadiums terrible example photos which show heavily blown out playfields flooded with light etc. However, when used well and tasteful, I find they can genuinely help from a playing point of view.

The cost is a sticking point for many and personally which stops me purchasing more. $300+ or whatever it is for Pinstadiums with UV flasher, vs roughly $30 for a DIY version (with a few caveats), why not try.

It's pretty low lying fruit to bag them out. But other than a couple of my pins which I find come with decent lighting from factory, I'll continue to use something to supplement the relatively basic lighting from factory. Makes my experience better, so who gives a f%&k what someone else thinks. It looks like Stern and JJP are starting to implement a similar experience from factory, so why are folk so quick to disregard their potential.

Make yourself a DIY set for $30 bucks, run them at 5-10%, what have you got yourself to lose?

I have no dog in this fight as I find most GI lighting can be augmented with post base lamps, towers, spots or the odd Comet matrix lamp strips.

Sounds like someone is ready to sell $150 sets and undercut the market!

tbh I've just never had any issues seeing the ball in my arcade, but I have plenty of accent lighting. Heck, I took the spotlights off the slings of my Metallica because I thought they were ugly. I have the LE, so I guess I have the apron lights, not sure how much they add.

I'm with you, I can totally understand why people would like the product. I can see a use for it in a couple of my games and I generally play with the lights on. I just don't want to pay 300-600 bucks for it. If there was a cheap alternative for like $100 bucks I'd be very interested as I'm sure many others would be too. DIY is a great option, but its wild to think people wouldn't use the gaping void in the lower price range to fill the niche of people who don't want to pay 300 bucks or make their own. If it is indeed PS themselves shutting down such projects, then thats just sad.

I have a set of DIY in my Phantom of the Opera, mainly because the game is so insanely flashy. They are a nice warm white I have hooked up to run constantly at low brightness. It does wonders to smooth out the lighting so you can see when the flashers fire and GI goes out. I can't imagine using Pin Stadiums to add more flashing to a game. They are so easy to make and I honestly spent like $5 for the remote and $15 on the channels, I had the LED Strip and a black spray paint already.

I have a couple of sets of the $600 Pinstadiums that I installed in my Stern JP and my TWD. These were given to me for pinball work I did - in lieu of money. They go a long way toward brightening up the dark areas of the playfield-which I enjoy, but I would NEVER spend $600 for them.

One of the features that the top-of-the-line set has is 4 sets of flashing color LEDS that you can hook up to the flashers on your pins. On my TWD I hooked these up to the pops, Well Walker flasher, and the left and right spinner flashers. When playing the game in this configuration there are so many flashing lights that it is almost seizure inducing and it detracts from the game greatly. It is extremely distracting and tends to pull me out of the “world under glass” experience. I have disconnected the flashers and now use only the GI lighting enhancement and the UV flashers, which I hooked up to the shaker. In this configuration I really enjoy the extra lighting effects. I have them set up in my JP in a similar configuration.

Hopefully Scott has never threatened to sue anyone over their creating a competing product. That would be a shame and I really hope that he wouldn’t do this. And I’m VERY glad that he was “persuaded” to stop inundating the market ads with his ads. That was also extremely annoying.

Speaking of annoying - his ads and his product descriptions are extremely annoying too. They are full of huckster hyperbole and really make it difficult to understand what the products actually are. I mean “Blur Photon Diffuser”? Come on. I can’t stand ads that are full of BS and exclamation points and words like “WOW!”. I’m an adult. Just tell me about the product. This isn’t a carnival sideshow.

I’ve met Scott and he seems to be a very nice and good person. He genuinely seems to care, and his product support is excellent.

I personally think that whatever a person wants to do with their money is their own business and we shouldn’t bash them for it. If they like Pinstadiums and feel that they are worth the asking price, no harm no foul.
And Scott is running a legitimate business. Nothing wrong with that.
Just my two cents worth.
Peace. Out.

Well wait till you see the Before & After pics!

Nope. All Scott did was what pretty much all modders ask their customers to do. If you like it, post your reviews to other pinheads about the products. Can’t remember a single mod I’ve bought off here where they didn’t ask me to post some love if I liked it.

You'd think yiur monies would be enough

I don’t mind helping out to spread the love. It’s no big deal if it doesn’t get out of hand. In Scott’s case he made it get out of hand on his own to the point that people hated his product for it. Had it just been happy customers posting, I doubt it ever would’ve been met with the vitriol that it received.

Feedback from initial customers is appreciated, both by the seller (to help generate additional sales) and by potential customers (for info on product performance and ease or difficulty of installation). And we know Pinsiders will also post if they DON'T like a product.

What's the big deal?

You like them, buy them. Don't like them, don't.

They are expensive but they are also quality. I think a plug and play solution is great, and support for anything isn't cheap.
You could buy a strip of lights and throw them in, nothing wrong with that. If you like/want that then knock yourself out.
I think the flashers, UV's and whatever else Pinstadiums do is great. They are improving and expanding what you can do with lights.
With toppers going for $1000-$2500..... at least with nice lighting you are getting the effect 100% of the time. Sounds like a good deal to me.

....but if someone paints a dolly like you painted a dolly, it's on!!! .......because???...CREATIVITY!?! It's just paint on an already sculpted figure. What was the issue? It's gonna happen if that's what you're really offering, even if you were "first".

I was on your side on that one though. I just don't get the shift in your opinion here and how a mod involving LEDs somehow means no designing, creativity or work was put into developing and making them. Why does the use of LEDs, instead of paint, mean it's open season for people copying a person's ideas and designs to sell themselves just because they can?

Nobody owns the idea of painting a figure. Nobody owns the idea of putting some lights on a speaker, or a fan on a coil.

Nobody owns the idea of replacing the Metallica hammer. Or making a new Shadow translite. Or whatever else for games.

I've seen some people straight up rip off my ideas directly, like copy and paste, and you know what? I mostly just stay quiet and let my product speak for itself.

I have a vague memory that you're referring to someone copying my Sparky paint job and telling them to make up their own ideas, but it wasn't about the concept, it was that they took every little detail instead of using an ounce of imagination. Mine isn't the only one in an orange prison jumpsuit ffs, but can you at least make up your own knuckle tats or helmet details?

If someone copies every little exact detail instead of doing their own then sure, call them out. But if it's a bracket to hold some LEDs or a fan they're gonna look similar, because it's just not that complicated and lots of people own 3D printers. Some screw holes and an angled bracket are going to look a lot like someone else's.

Yeah, if you put some creative energy into something to make it more unique it makes it harder for people to just wholesale copy it. But you can't expect to just own some entire space.

I have truly never bothered to look closely at Pinstadiums. Nobody I know has ever installed them on a game, I'm not even sure exactly how they mount. But, it's an LED strip held to the side of a game. It's not hard to figure out how to do that, I could solve it in an afternoon without looking at anything they did. I just don't care enough to actually want to.

I've never asked anyone to do that, but it's always appreciated when someone does.