Just keep your eye out, several have sold for that range in the last month here. At least 4 I think.

Sorry... I meant around my area not Pinside No offense.

You probably had almost as much money in it as that, though.

Hmm? I only have like $1300 into my WH2O.

I'm still going to guess you're a stand up guy

...and suddenly I remember reading that thread. I was jealous too.

I understand the sentiment that people are adverse to seeing games "flipped", but really, if you had kept the game for years and then sold it - you would have made the same amount and no one would have said anything. Which, in the end, is the same outcome.

This example is someone just making money off of something, not passion for the pinball hobby. I can go out right now and buy a thing, and perhaps sell it right away and put money in my pocket. Zero value added, and does nothing except for pump up the price to the person it was sold to.

Totally agree. Is pinball special, or does this apply to everything? Selling my house for more than I paid for it is the same thing.

Actually, I think there was value added. The person who bought TSPP for $3000 got a screaming deal. That person saved around $1500 and got a machine they might not otherwise have been able to own.

So if I buy a car, don't do a thing to it and then sell it to you for more I am adding value? I'm not adding value at all, I sure am adding up the dollars you are pulling out of your wallet.

I feel like we're having 2 different conversations here....and I can't tell if you're complimenting me or being sarcastic...lol. Oh well, thanks?

I'm still trying to understand where this "value" in this particular flip that was mentioned (buy it/do nothing/sell it same day at a jacked up price) is adding anything but dollars to the price tag.

Flippers buy houses, fix them up/remodel, sell for profit - I am ok with that. I bought a pin, did some repairs, cleaned up fixed a little cosmetics, ended up selling it quick at a little profit. I'm ok with others doing that as well.

We're all friends here.

Sorry, there was "value" for the purchaser - they got the game at a discount.

Again, if I buy a house, live in it for 10 years, and sell it at a profit, without doing any work to it - I haven't added value. I'm not sure why selling something at the market value would give people the right to vilify me.

As for "adding value", if you pick up a TSPP for $900, there is no way you can possibly add ~$3500 in value to bring it up to the going rate. So, what then? Keep it for the rest of time? Put new rubbers and an LED kit in, and *then* sell it for market rate?

I'm not sure why I'm even arguing here. Though I am genuinely curious - what is someone supposed to do if they get a machine at a $3000 discount? Isn't the problem actually with the seller letting it go for way below market?

Uhhh…there is no "problem" with anything, people are free to make "good deals" and they are free to make "bad deals", the nature of our capitalist society thank goodness.

Who cares who got what for what and telling people how to spend their money….

You're kidding right?

I hope that you do everything in your life with nothing but altruistic motives. When you sell any possession I hope you price it with the "passion" of whatever the item is associated with in mind. Don't you dare profit from any sale. Only break even.

Pricing threads=RTN (Road to Nowhere).

I'm still trying to understand this thread. Pinside has the best prices on the web and you always know where the market is in terms of pricing.

I must be out of date. A TFTC in good condition decked out with LED's is worth 2500 IMO. In such a thinly traded market, it's hard to make a blanket statement on price..

Plus it seems like you might be able to trust people here a bit more than those on ebay.

I remember that.I passed on at least 4 of them back then at 1800, funny thing is I still wouldn't pay 1800, just not my cup of tea.

What? Best prices on the web?... Even if that stement has some truth, why are you buying pins on the web expecting good prices? That's certainly NOT the norm unless you're looking at CL or, your occational auction postings for brick and mortar auction house events.

Apparently some people do care, because the pricing threads usually get quite lengthy. If you don't care, you can opt out of the discussion.

I thought I made it clear earlier - I'm not saying you can't profit from your sale. I'm saying that someone who actually wanted that game in their collection could have have gotten it at the original price, instead of having someone that just wanted a vacation out of it flip it in a day. That's not a pinball hobbyist, or is Pinside all about money making? That's not why I buy games, I buy them to enjoy. The ones I've sold some were a loss, some were break evens and one I made a little on. All of them left in better condition than were purchased. I'm not going to buy a game just to earn a vacation, I would pass and let someone who actually wanted the game for themselves to get it. I guess that's hard for the folks who are here just to make money understand.

I disagree. There are games sitting unsold on Pinside, CL, EBay. There are still good deals to be had on any of those venues as well.

I find it funny that when people don't agree with a post or a persons point of view it's because the disagreeing party clearly didn't read and or comprehend what was said and or posted. I CLEARLY interpreted what you said, how you said it. It's just that your thought process on this is crap. Sorry.

I think your head would explode if you knew the back story to every pin that traded hands. You're issue is you know the backstory to that one. Let it go man, you are clearly in the minority on this here.

You are correct, I am only discussing this one backstory flip. My point of view is from a low budget buyer, and someone buying that title in the low budget buyers price range and flipping it out immediately cuts all the low budget buyers out of the picture of owning that title. I know life's not fair, but an opportunity is missed for the low budget folks. Am I the only Pinsider with a low pin budget? So I guess we are a minority as you say. I see from your collection you've got a pretty big pin budget so you wouldn't give a crap about the middle guy pumping the price past the low tier, because the bigger budget guy that buys it still gets a deal. I certainly get it and I'm done with this discussion.

1. Early bird gets the worm. (The guy beat you to a "low budget" deal.)

2. Work smarter, work more, save more money, move up to the "middle guy".

3. Sounds more like a personal problem, not pinball's problem.

See that kind of divisiveness is what is wrong with this hobby and many other aspects of our day to day life. What my pin budget is, is no more relevant than what your pin budget is and quite frankly is insulting. Your post exposes what your real issue is; from my earlier post:

Since I have nice games, that means that what, I'm ok with screwing people over? Is it that because I have perceived "money" I must have screwed someone over to get my ill gotten gains? I see this socialistic mentality more and more these days. Now that I know your mind set, I also know there is no reasoning with you so, go luck to you.

You know, it's okay for people to feel differently about things, you don't have to be an asshole about it. It's also okay for money to not be the first things someone cares about. I personally like people who care about the games first, money second (or third).

Typical argument. Don't debate the statement attack the person. I hope the mods warn you for saying I'm being an asshole. Question for you. By your definition, are you being an asshole by saying I'm being an asshole? Something to ponder.

As for having differing opinions, that dude sure came down hard on the "flipper" for having a different opinion. Why aren't you taking up for the flipper and defending his right to a different opinion?

Lastly, if you think I was being an asshole in that post buttercup, you must live in the land of rainbows and happy thoughts.

In my short time as a Pinside member, I must agree that most, not all Market pinball machines for sale on either in the "forum" or "market" sections are reasonably priced. Especially from an experienced Pinsider most likely with more honest descriptions than what you'll get on eBay. What I like about Pinside is that so many ads that eventually a pin that I want turns up within driving distance (yes, I'm live in the East).

eBay is where most first timers go to, like me, until they do enough research and eventually find Pinside, or purchase the Mr. Pinball guide, or both. Then they kick themselves for overpaying for their initial machine(s), or regret the initial purchase of a less than average quality machine (I'm still pissed that my initial machine has a somewhat crappy playfield and cabinet).

So, regardless of all the high prices listed on Pinside, most are very priced fairly.

You're acting like a jerk, not debating. "Your thought process is crap" isn't a debate, it's being personally demeaning, and I don't see the need for it. I don't care how much money you have or how many pins you bought with it, your money, your purchasing, free country. But there's no need to tell other people that the way they think is "crap" because they don't agree with your philosophy.

I personally found that thread bragging about flipping that pin tasteless, but all I had to do was stop reading it, problem solved.

Please. You take the last closing throw away comment and you try and convolute that into my whole post. Nice try though. In case you missed it in your zealousness to attack me by calling me names, I was responding to his diatribe where he inferred I wasn't comprehending his post/point.

So now I'm a jerk. How many names do you have to call me before you get a warning from the mods. You sure seem like an angry person.

As for how much money/pins, that was the other dudes issue why are you convoluting things again by implying I said you had that issue. You seem to struggle to stay on point here.

Let me guess, your next post will consist of me being called another derogatory name and then some jumbled together facts cobbled into a sentence. Whatever. I enjoy reading most of your posts and what you have done with the translights. It's a shame you have to get so personal. Either way I will continue reading what you have to say, sans the personal attacks. Peace out brother.

Actually I was trying to point out that we could talk about this stuff without getting personal and emotional with each other. I apologize for saying asshole, that didn't help.

Fair enough. I appreciate your response and acknowledge saying "crap" may have been a little abrasive.

Can I get a kiss since we made up?

Wait a minute, I never said that you screwed anyone over. The statement about your pin budget was an illustration, just to point out that the end buyer in this example is really only concerned with the fact that he got a deal from his vantage point. I apologize if you construed this as an attack. My problem is not with the end buyer, with you, or with anyone with money for that matter. I just don't care for the way this was flipped. But this example is likely the exception anyway. Time to move on.

I appreciate your response as well and apologize for any harsh words.

Yay group hug!

My point is that its pointless to worry about what somebody else that found a deal paid for it and then flipped it. The solution is what? Outlaw "flipping"? I get where you are coming from and obviously when you are the one that missed out on a "deal" it sucks but that's the beauty of pinball, the next "deal" is always right around the corner.

I personally would never buy a pin to flip it. Don't care and don't have the time. I like to buy pins and play them. Never sold one but when I do it will be a "deal" and priced to sell.

OK this explains it all. I looked at your collection and kinda made this assumption. Pinball is not a cheap hobby and if someone cannot afford certain titles, does not mean that people who can afford them should leave the "deals" for the guy with a select budget that can afford them. First come first serve. If you snooze you lose. There is no problem with someone picking up a pinball at a good value-with some meat left on the bone and then offering it up at a later date for market value or below. Many times the machine being re-sold is still a great value in the current market. If it is above market value it will not sale. Let the market determine, not someone with a low budget and a chip on his shoulder. Everyone gives Teekee crap but in reality he is an asset to our hobby and helps people find hard to get collector quality pinball machines at market value. Serious collectors appreciate not having to search high and low for a quality machine. Haters going to hate.

Ya know, I was thinking things had become more reasonable around here... then I realized there are TWO BSDs for sale around $3000-4000 here right now. Fun game, but holy hell, some people are daft.

It's already been said countless times in this thread. If the game is listed too high, it won't sell. It's as simple as that.

I don't think you understand what I meant but it's probably due to the fact that I just made a short statement. If you want a game in good condition and you want to be able to negotiate the best price with a seller that has a good reputation then I think the best place is Pinside. For example, I would like to find a restored IJ so I would rather comb the Pinside Market than going on EBay, CL, etc.

Let's be honest, 90% + of the games that are on EBay, CL, Mr. Pinball, etc. are on here first.

I have seen 3 different types of buyers:
Hobbyists - Buying games that they want to add to their gamerooms. If they sell it down the road for a profit, great, but not the main goal.

Resellers - Buying games to make money off of. They will usually beat the hobbyists to the deals because they have the truck ready and constant alerts from CL. They may even have flexible enough work schedules to be able to leave during work to pick up a game. When they get a game in, they will clean it up and fix any problems with the game, and then resell it. These are the guys who you can actually find after the sale if a problem comes up.

I have seen some people who have made the transition between all 3 types over time. I have watched one of the most hated flippers in this area become one of the more respected resellers. I have seen a couple of others go the other way and become the people you just don't want to deal with. I thought I was going to become a reseller a few years ago, but I bought two games with the only intention of selling, and I hated it.

I know it is hard for a lot of people to believe, but some of us really don't spend our free time trying to figure out how to make more money. I work and earn enough to pay the bills and buy a few toys. I don't spend any more time trying to add to that. Don't get me wrong, I have sold a couple of games for more than I payed for them, but 95% of them have been sold for the same or less than I bought them for. I price things to sell as close to instantly as possible. a lot of people seem to have a primary hobby of making money. Sometimes I wish that was me; I would probably have a lot more money, but it isn't. I have always been more interested in things than money.

I have flipped one game. I bought it and a friend offered me $200 more than I paid for it to drop it off at his house instead of mine, so I did.

Two bad you only felt like typing two of them (I assume the third was just a straight flipper?)

I agree with this 100%. I remember when saving $100 ment a lot to me. Now, $100 isn't worth my time anymore. As much as I know this is true, when I really reflect on it, and really rationalize it, it's a piss poor way of looking at things. Seems the longer we are in the hobby, the more we let slip past.

but on the same token, the pickier we get with certain things. When I first started, I didn't give a shit about cabinet condition. I didn't play the cabinet. Price and if it was complete was the most important. everything else was fixable. I became more and more anal about cabinets as the years went on. Especially when I realized how shitty decals are. Now i'm super anal about (non decalled games) being original.

lol. No idea what happened to that part, but yeah it was the straight up flippers. The ones who will demand top market price when they sell, but only buy at less than 50% of the average market price. They are the ones who refuse to do even minor fixes or cleaning.

They are also the ones who will tell you it's "shopped" , when they really have no clue what shop even means. they wipe a rag in the center where they can reach and replace the sling rubbers.

Screw all price guides.
There are a few types of buyers.
1st time buyer: typically clueless and not wing man to help
2nd retail buyer: just to have in a game room, clueless
3rd casual buyer: has a few games, somewhat educated on prices and value
4th hardcore pinhead: knows the market quite well give or take a few $$$s
5th the dealer: he knows that if he gets a game that isn't trash someone will pay much more than pinsiders would

Yeah they did - realtors and mortgage brokers. I was looking for a house in Seattle during 2007, the height of the real estate bubble here. I went through 3 realtors and 2 mortgage brokers before I found people who weren't trying to scare me to "Buy now or be priced out forever!" I ended up renting for 4 years and buying a house in 2011. Saved enough to buy a small fleet of pinball machines by doing so.

The last pinball machine I bought was in 1999, and it was in storage from 2007 until just recently, and I hadn't really read any forum since probably 2003 or so. The one thing I'm struck by coming back to pinball after all these years is how much of the discussion around it centers on money. Money, money, money, money - seems to be the topic of half the front page discussions here. It's weird...and it floors me that pinball machines cost $8000, but I figure I can wait and see if it's the new normal, or like the housing market of 2007 something I can wait out again. I've only got room for 1 more machine regardless, so either ways I'll eventually get a second machine whatever it costs.

I still don't care about cabinets if the price is right. I appreciate an unfaded/nice cabinet as much as anyone - but if I find a game with a nice playfield but faded cabinet, and it's $1000 less than the going rate - I'm buyin' that game! At the same time, I'm happy if I get an unfaded cabinet at a faded cabinet price. It's all relative.