But first you have to find the pin you are interested in for sale in the first place, in some geographical range that doesn't require you to inform your next of kin you are going on an week expedition.

If your a $4K plus buyer, $500 difference in price really isn't a lot to sweat about. When you are a $1500 or less buyer it is a HUGE difference in your buying decision.

which is kind of a bad way to look at it. Because $500 is $500. SHould have the same value to you in the grand scheme of things. I'd like to save $500, whether or not it's a 15000 car, or a $1000 window.

I don't mean $500 isn't $500, I am just comparing the percentage of the games total cost. Sure, anyone would like to get a $4000 game for $3500, a 12% difference. Those are likely to be reasonable prices for each of those games, just that one is a little less expensive. The two parties are usually not too far apart to negotiate at deal. When I see a game that is (in my estimation) a $500 valued game and they are asking a $1000...in this example a 100% increase, double the price. It's a lot harder to negotiate that out because it's so much farther apart.

I don't know if that makes a lot of sense. I am a very low tier buyer - all 11 of my games in my history were below $1500 and when that's all you have to spend on a game at one time $500 is a really big difference.

WoW, another price police thread lol.
You know values has gone up on machines, but nowdays with everyone dumping expensive mods a and a typicasl led job on a game costing $250 average and the price of parts etc the hobby has gotten more expensive its no longer being a poor boys thing, yes 10 years ago machines were undesireable and cheap now since it has come back prices have gone up with demand.

Granted some people have gotten greedy the prices have also been on the rise.

Once you're deep into this hobby, $500 does seem like nothing...which IS weird, but it is what it is. However, I don't look at my games as individuals anymore - it's just one big pool. So, I might "lose" $500 selling one game...but then I might "make" $2000 selling another. Any "losses" I've had selling games have been made up for by other deals - so, I really don't sweat the hundreds anymore when it comes to buying/selling if it makes the other person feel good and gets the deal done.

Someone around here is looking to sell their WH20 for $8K. I cringed.

...and it sold. I think 2 sold around that price.

My first WH2O was $750!

You got me beat. Mine was $1,000.

I paid $3000 for my last TZ and handing the money over almost made me sick. I can't imagine how some people here can pay for some of these games and not have anxiety.

The hobby does tend to skew your view of money, at least in terms of pouring money directly into a game. For example, a person might spend $400 on a topper without batting an eyelash, but they wouldn't necessarily spend that same $400 so frivolously on other things. We're all guilty of it from time to time. Sometimes I have to take a step back and ask myself, "Do I really need to buy this mod? Is this bling that does absolutely nothing to affect the gameplay really money well spent in the grand scheme of things?"

When you bought makes a huge difference. I paid $1200 for TZ (that needed one clock board but I replaced both) and $1400 for IJ when I got them on the same day back in 1997. Back then nobody but operators bought NIB games. We played lots of games when they were new at the local arcade and then looked for our favorites on the used market when they were a couple years old (not routed enough to be worn and still new enough to be able to look up part numbers in the manuals and order spare parts to replace or back up anything that might break). Unfortunately, this practice ended when WMS quit pinball manufacturing in 1999. With no new WMS games coming out, operators held onto games like MM and the trickle-down practice of buying the best WMS games cheap when they got to be two or three years old ended. Since then my NIB purchases include RFM, SWE1, Stern Playboy, X-files (on a close-out), and BBB (on a pre-order).

Your "I won't pay more than..." just keeps inching up and you get less anxious. I started with arcade games, and never paid more than $300...most of them were $50, $100, etc. My first pin, BTTF, was $300 - that's how I got in! It was within my self imposed limit. My first "big" purchase was a BSD for $1000. I couldn't believe it - I thought I was insane. Then my ceiling kept inching up...$2300 for RFM. Most of my purchases were $1-2k, sometimes less...and I could always sell them for more than I had into them. That finally got rid of the anxiety. I finally hit $4k when I bought CV. I felt really weird doing it, but it was done. Then I finally got into NIB territory and it's all over. LOL

Yeah, once you start buying NIB, the sickness has fully consumed you.

Yeah, for me it was after a big breakup...I guess I kinda had an early midlife crisis...I was like "I deserve pretty things!!!" and ordered BDK and IM NIB

I'll vouch for this. I have never paid more than $2000 for any of my pins.

LW3: $1000 (2003)
JM: $1150 (2012)
JP: $1900 (2012)
TFTC: $1600 (2012)
XF: $1300 (2012)
T3: $2000 (2014)

I don't list those prices to brag; I list them to help other newcomes gauge the prices paid and the years purchased. They also don't include shipping/gas/vehicle rental/food.

Never ever thought I'd see the day I ventured into $2000+ territory. I have 4 other titles I'm interested in, and for nice and clean examples, I know already I'm going into $2500 - $3000 realm.

Just part of the territory. Sucks to know in 2009 you could get nearly any pin for $3000 and less. I remember on eBay seeing AFM for $3000, TZ for $2500, TAF for $3000. *sad nostalgic sigh*

Alrighty just for fun I'm looking at my "Collection History" and remembering what I paid for them...keep in mind these were 2008-2010-ish

AP: $1900
GNR: $1900
Dr. Dude: $400
FH: $1250
WOF: $2450 (NIB closeout)
Big Guns: $325
EATPM: $500
SW: $900
JP: $800
A13: $800
GE: $650
Tommy: $1500

Some good prices on games I still have
TAF: $2400 (with mods and Pinball Pro speakers!)
BK2K: $700
NGG: $2200 (HUO, barely any plays)

I think I'm actually doing what you did, but backwards. I'm entering arcade video game territory now. Will I still be welcome here?

Geez.......

Were any of these projects?

I agree completely.

I just sold five games - BSD, NASCAR, HRC, JD and Monopoly... all of them were under 2k.

Pretty much all of them to some degree. At the least, most needed full topside tear-down shop jobs...some needed new parts, new ramps, flipper rebuilds, mech rebuilds, board repairs, paint touch up, etc.

Be careful you don't buy everything you see - it will all seem so cheap in comparison!

I sold my WH2O for $8k, only lost $2.5k in materials plus a couple months of my life. Like you I "cringed", but hey it's a hobby and I'm glad my buyer got a great deal. At least he'll play and enjoy the game.

No implications about you personally, Mike. In fact I enjoyed your video where you remade MB. Very cool.

I just think that $8K is insane for a 20 year old machine. It's a personal opinion.

Yeah, it was horrible paying $3k for my first Scared Stiff!

^^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^
$150 Gottlieb System 1 Dragon....Has worked its way up to a Hobbit Preorder. I swear, that is as high as I go. (which of course is what I said about my nib acdc premium)

My second round of collecting started last summer after being out of the hobby for 10 years.

Eight Ball Deluxe - $300
Party Animal - $400
Starship Troopers - $500 (traded an X-Arcade machine I bought for $500 two weeks earlier for it)
TSPP - $900
Black Knight 2000 - $250
Wipe Out - $650
Hi-Score Pool - traded a snowblower for it
Lethal Weapon 3 - traded Party Animal for it

Nope, I'll never pay Pinside prices for a game. But I've got some nice trade value now if I wanted I higher value game.

I hear you

It comes down to what people like and how they define value - everybody’s different. What I don’t understand is the concept of “price policing” in general. If somebody can sell a Class of 1812 for $7k it doesn’t hurt my feelings - I didn't buy it. I just don’t get why some people feel the burning need to shit all over other guys FS threads. Don’t get me wrong, I see stuff I think is overpriced all the time, but I don’t feel the need to tell everybody I think the seller’s price is crazy – What value would that add? Mamma always told me, “If you don’t have something nice to say don’t say anything at all.”

Agreed I won't call the guy out who's selling his WH20 for $8K, because he probably put $7.5K into it. But somewhere down that chain--somewhere in that WH20's lifetime--at least one or two owners overpaid.

The price inflation in pinball looks a lot like the housing price inflation in the late 2000's IMO... we know how that ended.

Hope you can find your mint TSPP btw.

Some people have more money than I do. Conversely I have more money than some other people do. I buy what I want. If it takes more to get what I want, so be it. If I can't afford I don't buy it. I just don't get what the issue is. Don't buy the damn thing if it's too much. Is the real issue that people want it but can't afford it? Hence the, "prices are crazy high".

If the prices here are crazy, where can I go to get the sane prices these days? Is there a different website where all the games are 30% less? Link please. It's a collectors market and it doesn't have to make sense and it probably never will. $8k for a 20 year old game? How about $1,000,000 for an old baseball card or an old painting. There's nothing to them but paper and ink! Relative to the things we actually need in our lives, these things just are what they are. Supply and demand will dictate the price points, for better or worse. As has been said countless times, if something is overpriced, it won't sell. Nobody is being hurt by inflated asking prices.

If you're buying from collectors, even high prices are probably somewhat reasonable if lots of work/parts/restoration went into it. Honestly the best place to get good prices is to luck your way into a project game that you do your own work on.

it's a fool that looks for logic the chambers of the human heart.

Apparently games that are affordable are quite plentiful in your neck of the woods I guess. IMO, it's not 'shitting on someones threads' if you are commenting on the price as long as you do it politely. If you don't want comments on your game/its condition/your reputation, then don't post a for sale in a public discussion forum, put it in the marketplace. If someone sell a Class of 1812 for $7k its not that anyones feelings are hurt. I don't think anyones feeling are hurt. And of course, sure is great for the seller at that moment...but when someone sells a game at a higher price, then everyone tends to drill the prices up. I think that hurts everybody in the long run.

I think price policing sometimes has good intentions that is rooted in "being burned" in the past. Like in March 2012, I had a guy try to sell me a JP for $2200 that had a faulty TRex, lights that didn't work, ROMs that were faulty, no manual, no hex wrench - it was a very "pooped in my mouth" experience.

After that, I didn't want anyone else to go through that. I went hardcore price policing at first, and it burned me out for quite a while. It was rooted in good intentions, but I was wrong for not doing my homework ahead of time and hoping that the seller would take care of a new person in the hobby. Boy, did I learn a lesson that time. Never buy with the heart and emotions; buy with logic and reasoning.

Well I was the fortunate guy who was able to buy Mike's Wh20, with all the time, cost and effort that went into it to get it to where its at now I kind of feel lucky that the first guy backed out and I was able to get it and be able to enjoy it for many years to come!

Some people might think its ridiculous and crazy and I get it but hey, buying any pinball machine kind of feels that way anyhow

I don't have the time or talent that some of you guys do to do your own restore work. Looks like fun but I have to pay for someone else's time and talent, and in this case I know I got a good deal.

If it's not the nicest Wh20 out there, then its one of a handful. Some people don't care about that stuff but to me it excites me to "collect" and play such beautifully restored pins.

The other thing I do is to try and find the nicest HUO originals out there first. See many Wh20's like that? They were played to death because its such a great pin.

I was able to find an original RS for 3600 that still has some of the protective layer on the rails and is supposedly "perfect", "cq" and pristine. I like that!

Am I an idiot? Some might say that

I live in the Pinball Mecca of the Universe - Jacksonville Florida. 904 represent

Seriously though, went I really want something I work my ass off, save up my money, and buy it. If I want it badly enough I'll over pay the RGP approved price, that doesn't mean I'm setting a trend. Personally, I don't need anybody's help to determine what I'm willing to pay for a pinball machine.

Crap I tried to hit the "Quote" and accidentally hit "Ignore." How do I undo the "Ignore" feature?

Can somebody PM me that's in the know? Douhhhh...

I don't know...I can't hear you....

Oh, crap I almosted ignored you tooooo........

Some people can afford nicer pins, some can't, some care, some don't, some understand, some never will, some see the better than new restoration jobs, some can't see at all.

Can't wait for the next price thread!

Midpoint price from Boston pinball is $1850. And all the prices are skewed toward the high end because many (not all) are auction format. Put it out at $1800.00 and see if you get any bites then.

The others seem somewhat plausible, but this seems impossible. I'm going to need to hear the story...

It's the people who try to take advantage of those 'hearts' that are the problem. The pumpers.

We see what price pumping did to the USA housing market... it caused a global economic crisis that we're only now starting to recover from.

Pinball isn't nearly on that scale, and it is a luxury hobby. Principle is the same, though. Greed does nobody any good.

I have now bought three machines off of pinside. The best approach is to private message a user that has the pin you like. Ask the following questions.

1. Hey there sorry to bother you but do you like XYZ pin?
2. Does it happen to be for sale?

Follow up email if person says yes would be How much were you asking for it? Obviously you and the seller have separate prices in mind and the rules of negotiation start.

I like doing it this way because I don't have to compete with 100's of people looking at a pinside ad. I have found that offering a little bit extra money will tip the scales in your favor when a person is on the fence about selling a certain title. This has worked for me 3 times and It has even been done to me. I had a title I really did not want to sell but I know it went to a good home and the pinsider offered me an offer I couldn't refuse.

If you are referencing Boston Pinball, you have to realize that the 'averages' listed on there are based on a 90 month history. It says that right at the top. You aren't going to get a current real world average. This has nothing to do with 'price pumping' so much as trending and inflation.

When I first started collecting, I had sticker shock as well. If you don't make much money, it's a grind building up the collection of your dreams, but that's part of the fun too! It's exciting to get that big game you have been working towards for several years. Start by buying a few cheaper or fixer/upper games. Do your homework! Call a few of your local operators and see what they have stored in a warehouse somewhere. Make contacts by joining a local league or going to tournaments and shows. Keep saving your money and cutting other expenses. When you are ready, sell one or two of your 'fixed up' games, add a little more cash and get a more expensive game. You may even find you like the less expensive games just as much. Not everyone has to have BBB in their gameroom.

Chadderack said:

We see what price pumping did to the USA housing market... it caused a global economic crisis that we're only now starting to recover from.
............................................................................................................................................

People priced pumped housing?

I thought the sellers asked a price they thought they could get in the current market. I thought the buyers bought freely, along with their banks. No gun to their head.

Don't blame the sellers, only the buyers. Nobody forces you to buy. Don't like it, don't buy it. We all have different opinions on what something is worth.

Maybe I misstated the problem as price pumping. More to the point, it was the flippers and the banks who gave easy loans.

That said, pure greed was why the housing market crashed. People made foolish investments with money they shouldn't have been loaned because they couldn't pay it back.

The situation is different with pinball, of course, because pinball is a luxury item... however the problem as I see it is the same... it comes back to greed. A few greedy flippers pump the price and people who don't know any better start paying that price. That jacks up the price for everyone and prices people out of the market.

It's not really a soapbox I'm on; it's just an observation. Some of us are just concerned about the shrinking pool of pinball enthusiasts when people are priced out. The principle there is the same as well... the housing market couldn't support thousands of million dollar homes that weren't really million dollar homes because there weren't that many that could afford them.

What I don't get is the prices people ask for modded machines. Won't name the seller, not trying to call him out, but a modded Metallica Pro for $6300 (real price)? Nice Pros are selling now for $3800-$4200. That's just reality, not outlier prices, maybe code update will change that, maybe it won't. So you've got to freaking love the mods to pay an extra $2000 for them.

I like mods just fine. Obviously I'm not an alternate translite hater! But one of the reasons I like them is that I do them myself, for me. I don't expect to get my money back out of them.

I posted my story, got plenty of shit from jealous collectors and the thread was locked. Summary, bought it and sold it the same night, made $2100, and more than paid for my family's Disney vacation.

Whoa - can you point me in the direction of that kind of price, please?? My wife wants a Met Pro (seriously).