(Topic ID: 78858)
Saddle River, NJ
Quoted from NM:Indeed, and generally games also seem to be sitting longer unsold.
More likely to see a reduction or two along the way now vs. before.
Some folks have got to come down to reality. Maverick for $2100 in my area continues to sit and get reposted over and over. I paid $1400 for mine in the same geographic area. Overall, the same above average condition. Nice, working games that are not restored and not mint.
Quoted from spfxted:I actually DO have the eyes in...just an old pic.
Well then it's definitely worth 3500 in that super duper tricked out condition. Wish I was closer, good luck with the sale, someone is really stealing this one at this price!!
I would say the machine is worth as much as a person is willing to pay. It doesn't do any good complaining about prices really. If a machine is listed at say $2500.00 and sits for 2 months, then obviously its priced incorrectly. If the seller is serious about letting it go, then he will keep dropping it until someone bites. Just my 2 cents. With that being said there are a few things that bother me with today's pricing standard.
I get the whole HUO thing, but that has never influenced a potential/ purchase for me. I've been in houses that are dirtier then some bars or have cats running all over the place. Also, when ever I see 'just shopped' in a sale link I ignore it. Its amazing how many machines for sale have 'just been shopped'. Its becoming a trendy buzz word to throw into an sale thread. In the same sense I could really care less how many hours you spent restoring and cleaning the machine. Personally, I don't believe that should influence the asking price at all. What might take you 20 hrs to do I could do in 15. Why should I be charged extra because you are slow at shopping and cleaning a machine?
Another common trend that seems to be developing is people putting way too much time into games that really don't deserve it (I understand that's subjective) such as older EMs. They spend all this time restoring, adding LEDS, replacing parts, etc. Then when its all said an done they've dumped $2000+ into a $500 machine and think the machine now commands an asking price of $3000. When the owner goes to sell it they wind up getting, what they consider, low-ball offers. So they get pissed and sit on the machine. Basically don't put Ferrari time and effort into a Pinto.
Quoted from wayout440:I've bought 9 machines, and you won't find records of the prices I paid anywhere on the net, unless I've told you.
That's how I operate too, there is no need to post a machine cost online because when you sell people will point out how much you bought it for and say it's overpriced, or they will start contacting you with offers to buy at a "higher" price, whether you want to sell or not.
I usually buy broken machines that I can fix for a lot less then market value, but then I put a ton of time into making them playable again. I don't buy to sell, and even if I did pretending I was buying a game for, let's say $800 and then putting in 50 hours of work and $400 worth of parts, I don't want to sell it for $1200 when I'm done. I want to enjoy it 
Quoted from JackSlater:quite true, but trends starts here. Remember a year ago? exactly? Some joe started a ironman lovefest thread and every owners jumped in to pump and dump theirs and prices soared to 5K for a relatively marginally wanted game. They shure created a Frenzy.
I actually totally agree with this, and I'm an Iron Man owner (and LOVER), so I should be just the opposite and want to pump it up, I guess. What happened there is some people took a low production game and made a big fuss out of the fact there weren't any available for sale. Which is sort of true, except a ton of them are still route machines. This, coupled with a few people paying inflated prices because they didn't want to wait, led to a big spike in the belief by some people that it was a $6k game or whatever. Now that demand for it has cooled a little, the price of it has been falling back down to reasonable levels.
I agree that there are very large variations in pricing on Pinside and Mr Pinball.
However, I have gotten several games from Eric (eabundy) in CT that are in the condition as described and are either under priced or at market value.
It really comes down to the seller and their motivation.
Eric seems to be in it as a hobby and not as his sole source of income so he is a quality seller and hopefully continues to offer great machines at very good prices.
Just find a reputable seller and laugh at the other sellers who buy low and sell high. Their prices will come down eventually if nobody buys from them.
just my thoughts
njg
Quoted from Craig:There also have been some very good prices listed on Pinside, so it's not entirely one sided.
I'll vouch for this. Got my T3 coming in tomorrow for $2000. Even with $394 shipping, I still got a great deal with shipping included, and that sucker is plastic wrapped, on a pallet, AND in a wooden crate.
What frustrates me is that we see FS threads, but we don't know what was paid. People guard that like their life and reputation are at bay.
Me, I couldn't care less what people think about what I paid. I wanted the game enough that I paid whatever I did. This hobby needs more of that transparency to make it easier for new owners to "gauge" or "get a feel" for what machines are going for. At least I think so.
Quoted from goatdan:That's how I operate too, there is no need to post a machine cost online because when you sell people will point out how much you bought it for and say it's overpriced, or they will start contacting you with offers to buy at a "higher" price, whether you want to sell or not.
Yep. Most of my deals remain private. I'll share the details with my close friends, but I see no reason to make it public knowledge. I've had people contact me many times via PM asking me how much I bought or sold a particular game for. I certainly can't blame them for being curious. I just politely tell them that the price is between me and the buyer/seller.
Quoted from goatdan:What happened there is some people took a low production game and made a big fuss out of the fact there weren't any available for sale. Which is sort of true, except a ton of them are still route machines. This, coupled with a few people paying inflated prices because they didn't want to wait, led to a big spike in the belief by some people that it was a $6k game or whatever.
I have to admit that I directly contributed to the IM price explosion. I bought one for a crazy price, and then sold it for an even crazier price. Sometimes you just get caught up in the excitement and lose track of all reason.
Quoted from NPO:What frustrates me is that we see FS threads, but we don't know what was paid. People guard that like their life and reputation are at bay.
YES + 1 million this is what I'm saying. I put the exact price I paid on all my games into pinside when I add them to my collection. Why can't pinside have the estimated prices like before? If people are just honest some of the outliers will just float to the bottom and not affect the average price that much.
Quoted from Joshmx19:I hate selling games. It is the absolute worst part of this hobby in my opinion.
That's partly why I've never sold a game. I've been tempted to buy several games that I do like (such as The Shadow, Indy500, Pinball Magic and a few others), but I only have space for 12 pins in my game room. So for any potential new game, I have to ask myself which game would it bump out of my current lineup?
I told my Mom what I paid for my BBB and what I think it's worth now, and she immediately wondered why I haven't already sold it. I tried to explain that I preordered and waited almost three years for it because I wanted to own it - not just to sell it at a profit. She didn't understand not wanting the money over the game. (Which is not the same as someone who sells their BBB in order to buy several other pins.)
Quoted from Acampero:Seems like a shortage in So Cal for good machines.
SoCal Craigslist was pinball heaven around 2007-2010 or so...great titles & projects CONSTANTLY showing up at great prices....then it really started to dry up. Once the collectors & flippers gobbled up the "casual owner" inventory, those games were kept in collections or repaired/shopped/restored & sold for more. I barely look at CL anymore, and when I do, it's the same 3 T2's that have been listed for a year for $2k+. Hopefully you'll start seeing good deals again once people realize they're going to HAVE to lower their price to sell these games. Or - if you see a game you want, it can't hurt to offer a realistic price. I've purchased games at great prices after seeing a high-priced ad and making a reasonable offer. Just be nice! Say something like "If you can get what you're asking, by all means...but if you want the game gone - I've got cash, I'll show up on time, and get it out of your way."
Quoted from littlecammi:I told my Mom what I paid for my BBB and what I think it's worth now, and she immediately wondered why I haven't already sold it. I tried to explain that I preordered and waited almost three years for it because I wanted to own it - not just to sell it at a profit.
The exact same thing happened to me with WOZ. I had a guy offer me $9K for mine while it was on its way to my house. As much as I was tempted to cash in, there was simply no way I wasn't going to open and play that sucker after waiting two and a half years for it.
Quoted from gweempose:I had a guy offer me $9K for mine while it was on its way to my house. As much as I was tempted to cash in, there was simply no way I wasn't going to open and play that sucker after waiting two and a half years for it.
Did that guy send you a Thank You card yet?
Quoted from NPO:What frustrates me is that we see FS threads, but we don't know what was paid.
What's to say that you could even trust the number if it was there? Wouldn't it be in a flipper's interest to claim machines sold for higher than they actually did?
For that matter how do you even know the FS thread is real? Some of these guys already get caught making multiple forum accounts to cheerlead themselves or shill bid, it's not much of stretch imo that they could be faking sales to make the overall pricing trend appear to go up.
Quoted from GListOverflow:For that matter how do you even know the FS thread is real? Some of these guys already get caught making multiple forum accounts to cheerlead themselves or shill bid, it's not much of stretch imo that they could be faking sales to make the overall pricing trend appear to go up.
People do it on eBay all the time. They create fake auctions and have their friends bid it up to artificially inflate the market.
Quoted from GListOverflow:Some of these guys already get caught making multiple forum accounts to cheerlead themselves or shill bid, it's not much of stretch imo that they could be faking sales to make the overall pricing trend appear to go up.
Remember... all of this can be done in reverse as well. You can also make prices magically appear to be going down.
It goes both ways boys and girls.
Quoted from Deez:I put the exact price I paid on all my games into pinside when I add them to my collection. Why can't pinside have the estimated prices like before? If people are just honest some of the outliers will just float to the bottom and not affect the average price that much.
You may be aware, but the "price paid" entries in your collection are private (only you can see them). I don't know if Pinside was previously using that data in agregate to fule the price estimate list (the description implied it came from eBay sales), but for now filling price in on your Pinside collection won't help anyone else trying to figure out market prices.
Quoted from GListOverflow:What's to say that you could even trust the number if it was there? Wouldn't it be in a flipper's interest to claim machines sold for higher than they actually did?
See, I'm just a person that believe in integrity of my word, and I hide nothing from anyone here. It is so sad that people have to muck with prices, screw with their story, and shine a turd trying to make us believe it's a diamond. My word is way more important to me than my image or reputation - in fact - the integrity of my word will only speak for and make my image and reputation that much better.
Quoted from GListOverflow:For that matter how do you even know the FS thread is real? Some of these guys already get caught making multiple forum accounts to cheerlead themselves or shill bid, it's not much of stretch imo that they could be faking sales to make the overall pricing trend appear to go up.
Good call - can't really know. What I can know and tell you is the "WTB: T3" ad was real enough when I saw it and snagged my T3...
Quoted from spfxted:...but I have all the MODS
If it only had that huge T-700 as topper, then i would buy it... 
Quoted from Dayhuff:doesn't mean gosh darn thing.
Watch your language!
Quoted from islandpinball:If it only had that huge T-700 as topper, then i would buy it.
I'm a buyer with a T-850 topper or a T-1000 topper. Anything less....Psh. 
Quoted from gweempose:Or maybe someone truly wishes the other person good luck. Why is this such a crazy notion to you?
it's also used as sarcasm when something is priced way to high. Which I think it's used more for that, than anything else.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:it's also used as sarcasm when something is priced way to high. Which I think it's used more for that, than anything else.
Let's go back to Shazaam!
A good reason to keep quiet about what you've paid for a pin is to not expose yourself as either a sucker, or a low baller.
I'm starting to understand that you will over pay some times, and under pay other times. Hopefully it evens out and even more than that... hopefully we keep buying and selling because we love pinball.
I don't know...remember when people thought it was ridiculous when AFM's were going for $2800 and MB's were hitting $3k?
I'd be ticked if the "price police" talked me out of buying those games back when they were at that level.
The market is what it is, and "crazy prices" can sometimes turn into future "Holy smokes, I should have bought that game when it was only $X. Now it is double that!").
Pete
Quoted from pmWolf:I don't know...remember when people thought it was ridiculous when AFM's were going for $2800 and MB's were hitting $3k?
I'd be ticked if the "price police" talked me out of buying those games back when they were at that level.
The market is what it is, and "crazy prices" can sometimes turn into future "Holy smokes, I should have bought that game when it was only $X. Now it is double that!").
Pete
yes, but it would have been a huge risk. There was little chance these prices were going to sore double and triple in a short period of time. If it wasn't for the NIB huge price increase announcements. It would have never happened. that was the thing that snowballed the bubble at a rapid rate. Chances of that happening were slim.
Look at games like CFTBL. They roamed around $1300 for 10 years WH20 $1500 all day. STTNG 2k all day long. NGG 2k. Now if you paid 3k for those back in the day. You would have had to wait a good 6 , or 7 years with the slim chance that they would shoot up in price. Yes it happened. but there was a 14% chance it would happen, and 2% chance it would happen in a couple of months.
Quoted from pmWolf:I'd be ticked if the "price police" talked me out of buying those games back when they were at that level.
very true but possibly thanking them when they were going for $12,800 & $13,000
Quoted from CaptainNeo:and 2% chance it would happen in a couple of months.
Speaking of 2% chance's....Did Bo Ryan really let Northwestern come into Madison and walk away a winner!
17point underdogs last night....ouch....okay back on topic. Price Police are good, no they are bad, no good , no bad...
Quoted from islandpinball:If it only had that huge T-700 as topper, then i would buy it...
When are you coming over to pick up?
t2 a.JPGQuoted from goatdan:"Wish you were closer!"
There are two "Wish you were closer" meanings, one is sarcastic. 
Quoted from Rarehero:SoCal Craigslist was pinball heaven around 2007-2010 or so...great titles & projects CONSTANTLY showing up at great prices....then it really started to dry up. Once the collectors & flippers gobbled up the "casual owner" inventory, those games were kept in collections or repaired/shopped/restored & sold for more. I barely look at CL anymore, and when I do, it's the same 3 T2's that have been listed for a year for $2k+. Hopefully you'll start seeing good deals again once people realize they're going to HAVE to lower their price to sell these games. Or - if you see a game you want, it can't hurt to offer a realistic price. I've purchased games at great prices after seeing a high-priced ad and making a reasonable offer. Just be nice! Say something like "If you can get what you're asking, by all means...but if you want the game gone - I've got cash, I'll show up on time, and get it out of your way."
100% agree. I'd add that once the economy took a dump there were a bunch of people who started to depend on game flipping to survive, plus the quasi-retailers have discovered it's a source of cheap games. Craigslist has become a long shot for deals on pins and other arcade games unless you are using one of those apps that constantly checks for you, and even then the competition is insane. Right now I think it's better to just buy at market value and be happy and not be obsessed with getting cheap deals.
Quoted from islandpinball:Let's go back to Shazaam!
Okay, Gomer.
Quoted from GListOverflow:What's to say that you could even trust the number if it was there? Wouldn't it be in a flipper's interest to claim machines sold for higher than they actually did?
For that matter how do you even know the FS thread is real? Some of these guys already get caught making multiple forum accounts to cheerlead themselves or shill bid, it's not much of stretch imo that they could be faking sales to make the overall pricing trend appear to go up.
i really think that is overly paranoid. for one thing, the dudes with multiple accounts weren't that bright.
I can explain a lot of the over priced games. If you have a wife (or significant other) and they want you to "clean up that mess" and get rid of a game you place an ad for it at a very high price and then you can honestly look her in the eye and tell her "it's just not selling, sorry". I know this to be true as I have not had one call regrading a 4 Million BC for $5K!
Quoted from laryans:100% agree. I'd add that once the economy took a dump there were a bunch of people who started to depend on game flipping to survive, plus the quasi-retailers have discovered it's a source of cheap games. Craigslist has become a long shot for deals on pins and other arcade games unless you are using one of those apps that constantly checks for you, and even then the competition is insane. Right now I think it's better to just buy at market value and be happy and not be obsessed with getting cheap deals.
Competition from flippers definitely got brutal - but these days there are barely any games even being listed, aside from the same overpriced ones over and over. You almost have to buy at market value cuz there just aren't any cheap projects popping up anymore. Thankfully I got most of my collection "back in the day" so I'm not really looking that hard to pick up anything else. Phew.
Quoted from scottc:Sorry was being sarcastic but they are both folded up in the garage with no spots left for them in the game room so if someone offered 4k I would think of selling one.....Don't want to get rid of either of them!!!!
I am in Bucks County. You can store them at my place. I'll even shop them out for you
Chris
People here are funny. Holding on to what they paid for a pinball machine like it was a potential cure for cancer. What's the big deal? I'm fine with what I have paid for every pinball machine I have purchased and wouldn't hesitate to tell anyone what I paid to help them gauge prices if they asked me. Nothing to be embarrassed about here.
Quoted from LesManley:People here are funny. Holding on to what they paid for a pinball machine like it was a potential cure for cancer. What's the big deal? I'm fine with what I have paid for every pinball machine I have purchased and wouldn't hesitate to tell anyone what I paid to help them gauge prices if they asked me. Nothing to be embarrassed about here.
Same here…ask away!
Okotoks, AB
My take on this is simply prices on games for differant places all over the world, sure condition and cleaning/shopping/mods help but its about being able to get the game. Some of you live in pinball "hot spots" were you can find several games always listed, hense cheaper prices.
I would never list my games for sale on Pinside because alot of people dont take that into consideration. Just because game "A" sells for $2000 in New York doesnt mean the guy in California asking $2500 is crazy and its over priced.
Its worth whatever anyone will pay and quite frankly I dont understand why people have to make silly comments in alot of the selling threads. If you think its over priced, just dont buy it, why smash the seller?
I would not be embarrassed to list my prices either, im happy with what I paid, as for selling on Pinside, probably not.
-Spencer
Quoted from LesManley:People here are funny. Holding on to what they paid for a pinball machine like it was a potential cure for cancer. What's the big deal? I'm fine with what I have paid for every pinball machine I have purchased and wouldn't hesitate to tell anyone what I paid to help them gauge prices if they asked me. Nothing to be embarrassed about here.
Quoted from Rarehero:Same here…ask away!
I want Rainman level details here please, Names, dental records, place, year, price, condition, weather and shipping/tidal/moon phase cycles otherwise it would all be too random to analyse.
Also if you could compare the local price of bread and pork bellies at the time I can trend bacon sandwiches as well.
Basically this information is useful (just the pricing stuff) so that EVERYONE can become more informed about their buying and selling choices, yes there are going to be the usual market variations such as location and exchange rates etc but there needs to be some baseline information as a starting point, it is how the real estate market justifies itself.
Post edited by lol_implied : more context to my ramblings
Quoted from LesManley:People here are funny. Holding on to what they paid for a pinball machine like it was a potential cure for cancer. What's the big deal? I'm fine with what I have paid for every pinball machine I have purchased and wouldn't hesitate to tell anyone what I paid to help them gauge prices if they asked me. Nothing to be embarrassed about here.
Problem is it does matter to certain sellers what someone paid. That information can be used to either avoid a sale completely (if they think you're a lowballer) or to take advantage of someone (if they think you're a sucker).
If all of this information were ignored, and we simply went on a case by case machine by machine basis... it would be simpler and there would be no 'alterior motives' exposed by anyone.
Yeah I do live in La La land 
Quoted from Sly_Old_Devil:I want Rainman level details here please, Names, dental records, place, year, price, condition, weather and shipping/tidal/moon phase cycles otherwise it would all be too random to analyse.
Also if you could compare the local price of bread and pork bellies at the time I can trend bacon sandwiches as well.
Basically this information is useful (just the pricing stuff) so that EVERYONE can become more informed about their buying and selling choices, yes there are going to be the usual market variations such as location and exchange rates etc but there needs to be some baseline information as a starting point, it is how the real estate market justifies itself.
Post edited by lol_implied : more context to my ramblings
Keep in mind, I could tell you that I paid a super low price for my games - but, that doesn't take into account that they may have also been filthy, broken, needed board repairs, tons of new parts, and time time time time! Time is money. I don't mind paying more for a game if I don't have to do jack shit to it.
Quoted from CharlestonSCPins:I can explain a lot of the over priced games. If you have a wife (or significant other) and they want you to "clean up that mess" and get rid of a game you place an ad for it at a very high price and then you can honestly look her in the eye and tell her "it's just not selling, sorry". I know this to be true as I have not had one call regrading a 4 Million BC for $5K!
4 Million BC is a $3000 machine all day long, thats why its not selling
Quoted from Rarehero:Keep in mind, I could tell you that I paid a super low price for my games - but, that doesn't take into account that they may have also been filthy, broken, needed board repairs, tons of new parts, and time time time time! Time is money. I don't mind paying more for a game if I don't have to do jack shit to it.
Agreed and for sure there are multiple variables to take into account and I think we agree that having some information is better than none so long as there is enough quality data to normalise the extremes. I for one would prefer Rainman levels of info but hey take what I can get and what seems to be available and make informed decisions from there if possible. There is always the chaos factor with pins as well, otherwise known as the emotional element where data doesn't matter
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